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Jackie D
May 27, 2009

Democracy is like a tambourine - not everyone can be trusted with it.


Fallom posted:

I'm half sure they very briefly mention that Nell was an addict, herself.

I don't remember this at all.

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Sloth Life
Nov 15, 2014

Built for comfort and speed!
Fallen Rib
Prescription pills addict I think, because of her night terrors

Necroskowitz
Jan 20, 2011
I'm pretty sure the implication of her going off the deep end and returning to the house was because she STOPPED taking her pills.

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!
She was also probably experiencing the effects of Luke's 90 days of sobriety, since they share the "twin thing."

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

Lester Shy posted:

She was also probably experiencing the effects of Luke's 90 days of sobriety, since they share the "twin thing."

At that point there would be no ill effects, he wasn't in withdrawl anymore. Luke felt great at that time. Nell was just off her meds.

Sandwich Anarchist fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Oct 25, 2018

Lester Shy
May 1, 2002

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!
It might have contributed to her breakdown though. If she'd spent the majority of her adult life mysteriously feeling good because of Luke's vicarious drug use, 90 days of unexplained sobriety probably felt like the world's worst depression.

Eat The Rich
Feb 10, 2018



I want a sitcom in Hill House with the ghosts as the cast.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P

Eat The Rich posted:

I want a sitcom in Hill House with the ghosts as the cast.

This is basically American Horror Story Season 1

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009

Lester Shy posted:

She was also probably experiencing the effects of Luke's 90 days of sobriety, since they share the "twin thing."

Sandwich Anarchist posted:

At that point there would be no ill effects, he wasn't in withdrawl anymore. Luke felt great at that time. Nell was just off her meds.

I read Nell going off her meds as being part of her twin connection with Luke. She goes off her meds at the same time that he goes off heroin.

The show doesn't outright say it, and doesn't really do anything with the idea that Nell died because Luke was getting cleaned, but the hammering of the twin thing and the timelines lining up definitely makes it seem that way.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

Pinterest Mom posted:

I read Nell going off her meds as being part of her twin connection with Luke. She goes off her meds at the same time that he goes off heroin.

The show doesn't outright say it, and doesn't really do anything with the idea that Nell died because Luke was getting cleaned, but the hammering of the twin thing and the timelines lining up definitely makes it seem that way.

Yeah, as someone who didn't think the show was particularly subtle about stuff, I thought this was one of the better narrative beats the show explored, and one of the better uses of the diffuse timeline used in the first half of the season.

It's that self-perpetuating comorbidity inherent to their relationship -- the allegorical (and, I'd argue, literal) codependent "twin thing" coupled with their addiction problems. One comes off drugs, puts pressure on the relationship, and the other spirals into mental illness. She struggles to pull back from paralysing grief, his support structure frays and he's back to using. It's a horrible little seesaw.

Drunk Canuck
Jan 9, 2010

Robots ruin all the fun of a good adventure.

Alright so my theory is that Olivia only experienced migraines throughout her life is because her suicide smashed in her head.

My only evidence is that Nell haunted herself her entire life.

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!

The show was enjoyable to good until the finale which was just terrible. It felt tonally off with the rest of the show and I thought was just wrapped up too abruptly.

The real Hill House and hauntings are the poor relationships we've had along the way.

The flapper lady ghost who is somehow powerful enough/influential to influence Olivia into murdering children and generally making it seem like dying in this house is akin to eternal suffering is now turned into an impromptu heaven for the Crains and the caretakers.

LadyPictureShow
Nov 18, 2005

Success!



I know kid actors are hit and miss in general, but man, kid Luke is the worst. But adult Luke is probably the best character.

We just got through episode 4, and that story by the blind guy in rehab was creepier than the actual ghosts.

grobbo
May 29, 2014
It's not necessarily a positive comment on Michel Huisman's performance, but I'm really entertained by Steven's increasingly bug-eyed and manic 'I'm the voice of reason here' tirades as the show goes on.

If my brother ever starts acting strangely in the face of family trauma, I'm getting right up in his face with,
"MENTAL! ILLNESS! IT'S IN OUR GENES, LUKE. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO BURY YOU!"

Hilario Baldness
Feb 10, 2005

:buddy:



Grimey Drawer
Oh God. The younger version of the dad is the main kid from E.T. all grown up.

Crow Jane
Oct 18, 2012

nothin' wrong with a lady drinkin' alone in her room

Hilario Baldness posted:

Oh God. The younger version of the dad is the main kid from E.T. all grown up.

Yup! And Shirley is the waitress Don was briefly obsessed with in the last season of Mad Men

Sloth Life
Nov 15, 2014

Built for comfort and speed!
Fallen Rib
I loved babby Luke, he was too cute and innocent. It was heartbreaking to know how effed up he became, the house broke all of them but him the most. Maybe because it 'got' him in the dumbwaiter, I don't think any of the other kids experienced that.

Sloth Life
Nov 15, 2014

Built for comfort and speed!
Fallen Rib
I did like that I could understand all of them, if not like their decisions. None of them were any better or more well adjusted than the others except in terms of social acceptable failings prescription pills vs heroin.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
Yeah, I just had a little boy 4 months ago and kid Luke hosed me up pretty badly

Xad
Jul 2, 2009

"Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"

College Slice

Sloth Life posted:

I did like that I could understand all of them, if not like their decisions. None of them were any better or more well adjusted than the others except in terms of social acceptable failings prescription pills vs heroin.

I feel like the show didn't have enough time for Shirley, she was just awful for no reason. And then her "regret" scene at the end had nothing to do with...anything? like she was "haunted" by cheating on her husband, but that had nothing to do with her time at the house or anything

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
Some people are just lovely assholes

Drunk Canuck
Jan 9, 2010

Robots ruin all the fun of a good adventure.

Xad posted:

"regret" scene at the end had nothing to do with...anything? like she was "haunted" by cheating on her husband, but that had nothing to do with her time at the house or anything


"A ghost can be a lot of things. A memory, a daydream, a secret. Grief, anger, guilt."

Zedsdeadbaby
Jun 14, 2008

You have been called out, in the ways of old.
I really really enjoyed this but I wish the house and its ghostly occupants were fleshed out much much more. Who was the zombie in the basement? What was the deal with the kittens? How did the first ghosts even come to be? What happened between Hugh and the police in the immediate aftermath of the first night? Why are family members haunted by specific ghosts (ie Luke and the floating cane guy), and why do unique monstrous-looking non-human ghosts show up (like the dogs and the hosed up c'thulu dude that pulls the sheets off Theo in bed)?

The family drama is all neatly wrapped up but I would have loved to stay on Mr. Bones' Wild Ride for a bit longer

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

Zedsdeadbaby posted:

I really really enjoyed this but I wish the house and its ghostly occupants were fleshed out much much more. Who was the zombie in the basement? What was the deal with the kittens? How did the first ghosts even come to be? What happened between Hugh and the police in the immediate aftermath of the first night? Why are family members haunted by specific ghosts (ie Luke and the floating cane guy), and why do unique monstrous-looking non-human ghosts show up (like the dogs and the hosed up c'thulu dude that pulls the sheets off Theo in bed)?

The family drama is all neatly wrapped up but I would have loved to stay on Mr. Bones' Wild Ride for a bit longer

I'm the opposite. I wanted no reasons given, no explanations. The moment they gave a ghost character and personality I got turned off.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Zedsdeadbaby posted:

I really really enjoyed this but I wish the house and its ghostly occupants were fleshed out much much more. Who was the zombie in the basement? What was the deal with the kittens? How did the first ghosts even come to be? What happened between Hugh and the police in the immediate aftermath of the first night? Why are family members haunted by specific ghosts (ie Luke and the floating cane guy), and why do unique monstrous-looking non-human ghosts show up (like the dogs and the hosed up c'thulu dude that pulls the sheets off Theo in bed)?

The family drama is all neatly wrapped up but I would have loved to stay on Mr. Bones' Wild Ride for a bit longer

Well if they do a second season, they have a lot to cover with all those various ghosts in the last shot of the house.

I did find out that Hazel Hill (old lady in the bed) was William Hill's sister (he was the old man with the cane/hat who walled himself up in 1948). Poppy would have been her sister in law. I also wonder how much of what we saw of Poppy was Poppy, and how much was she just an avatar of the House?

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!


Zedsdeadbaby posted:

(like the dogs and the hosed up c'thulu dude that pulls the sheets off Theo in bed)?

The family drama is all neatly wrapped up but I would have loved to stay on Mr. Bones' Wild Ride for a bit longer

Do you mean the guy that looked like what the abused girl was drawing? Because im pretty sure that was residual PTSD from touching the girl

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler
I didn't take Luke as being literally haunted by William Hill, when he's looking for the girl from his group and keeps seeing a guy in a bowler hat it's a visual metaphor for his drug addiction. The thing that caused him to turn to drugs is always going to be a part of him, it's always going to be right there behind him.

Xad
Jul 2, 2009

"Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"

College Slice

Drunk Canuck posted:

"A ghost can be a lot of things. A memory, a daydream, a secret. Grief, anger, guilt."

Right, but 1. that is a dumb thing steve says because he has literally seen real ghosts by the 2nd time he says it, and 2. it felt like everyone else's ghosts (or lack thereof in Steve and Shirley's case) were related to their childhood or personality somewhat except Shirley. She was just terrible.

Steve never really saw anything in Hill House, so he never believes anybody and wrote a book about it, overexaggerating everything.
Theo got spooky psychic touching powers, so she constantly wore gloves and tried not to get close to people
Nell was haunted by herself and only really Luke believed her, so she became somewhat isolated from her family
Luke saw poo poo CONSTANTLY, and even got physically assaulted by a zombie skeleton and fell into drug abuse because of it

Shirley saw spooky dead cats, so she became a mortician and then...hosed a random married dude at a mortician's convention and yelled at her family a whole lot? Not that it's impossible for someone to just be lovely, but the show goes out of its way to explain why each of the Crain children ended up the way they did, except for Shirley, imo

Gaunab
Feb 13, 2012
LUFTHANSA YOU FUCKING DICKWEASEL
You guys don't need to use spoilers anymore if you don't want to.

With Luke I thought his drug use came more from the guilt about Abbie than the hauntings.

Elissimpark
May 20, 2010

Bring me the head of Auguste Escoffier.
I'm not sure the Dudley's thought through their endgame. Probably because I currently have an 8 week old baby, my first thought when Clara Dudley ghosted up with her daughter and the baby was "enjoy your eternal newborn, idiot." I love having kids, but I'm glad they stop being babies eventually.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Also Theo didn't get the touch power from the house, her mother and grandmother had it as well. It's more of a Shining situation where the kid goes to a haunted house with pre-existing powers. Combine that with the "twin thing" and it would seem the family is already attuned to the supernatural.


ONE YEAR LATER posted:

I didn't take Luke as being literally haunted by William Hill, when he's looking for the girl from his group and keeps seeing a guy in a bowler hat it's a visual metaphor for his drug addiction. The thing that caused him to turn to drugs is always going to be a part of him, it's always going to be right there behind him.

There's a valid question as to whether the House has any power outside it's walls (or lawn, since Hugh was fully corporeal at the car). It could be that other than Nell haunting herself, every other manifestation in the real world was in their heads.

Xad
Jul 2, 2009

"Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"

College Slice

Astroman posted:

It could be that other than Nell haunting herself, every other manifestation in the real world was in their heads.

this felt like a weird thing for the show to do, because instead of leaving it ambiguous as to whether or not any of the ghosts were real or not, they show that SOME definitely were, and SOME...might not have been? I feel like the "ghosts are actually just mental illness" thing could have come off better if there's never a definite answer to "are there actually any ghosts/psychic powers"

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

Xad posted:

this felt like a weird thing for the show to do, because instead of leaving it ambiguous as to whether or not any of the ghosts were real or not, they show that SOME definitely were, and SOME...might not have been? I feel like the "ghosts are actually just mental illness" thing could have come off better if there's never a definite answer to "are there actually any ghosts/psychic powers"

This is what I wanted from the show, but instead I got flapper ghost.

Xad
Jul 2, 2009

"Either Sonic is God, or could kill God, and I do not care if there is a difference!"

College Slice

Sandwich Anarchist posted:

This is what I wanted from the show, but instead I got flapper ghost.

:same: but I still enjoyed it for the most part

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Elissimpark posted:

I'm not sure the Dudley's thought through their endgame. Probably because I currently have an 8 week old baby, my first thought when Clara Dudley ghosted up with her daughter and the baby was "enjoy your eternal newborn, idiot." I love having kids, but I'm glad they stop being babies eventually.

Counterpoint: As a ghost, that baby will never get hungry or tired, so maybe less screaming?

Zedsdeadbaby
Jun 14, 2008

You have been called out, in the ways of old.
I would be bored so shitless if I was a ghost in a house

I guess they get their kicks from scaring the bejesus out of people

grobbo
May 29, 2014
Just finished Episode 9 and this really feels like an astounding plummet in quality.

Episode 1: A child is woken in the middle of the night by his terrified father, who picks him up and insists that they have to leave the house right now, and that he mustn't look, no matter what he sees - just seconds before a mysterious force starts turning the doorknob. They dash frantically through the darkened, claustrophobic corridors towards the exit, before getting into the car where the other kids are screaming that they've seen apparitions at the window, including their mother...but the father grimly insists that whatever they saw *wasn't her*, and he flees into the night.

Episode 9: The doorknob was being rattled by the very much living mother, until she wandered off due to the intervention of a helpful ghost granny (looking like a rotting corpse in a wig) who'd come to her door to see what all the fuss was about. Getting back into bed, the ghost granny explained that one of the other ghosts, who she knew socially as Poppy (and who sometimes appeared as a sexy flapper but then turned into a rotting corpse when nobody was looking) could not be trusted.

Some very basic understanding of what horror is has been lost between these two scenes.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

Xad posted:

Steve never really saw anything in Hill House, so he never believes anybody and wrote a book about it, overexaggerating everything.

Except he did see things. Right in the first episode there's a POV shot from his perspective, where he can see something chasing him and and his father as Steve's carried out of the house.

Xad posted:

Shirley saw spooky dead cats, so she became a mortician and then...hosed a random married dude at a mortician's convention and yelled at her family a whole lot? Not that it's impossible for someone to just be lovely, but the show goes out of its way to explain why each of the Crain children ended up the way they did, except for Shirley, imo

Shirley's the one who had to hold the rest of them together. With Steve attempting to pretend that nothing ever happened, Shirley's the one who takes on the emotional baggage of caring for the family -- she takes Theo in, she pays for Luke's rehab, she has to be the one who gussies up Nell's body. Even with complete strangers, she has to be the one who helps them out when they can't look after themselves. Who looked after all those kittens after their mother died? Shirley. And who looked after the family after her mother passed away? Not their absent father, and their emotionally withdrawn aunt certainly wasn't fulfilling their emotional needs. So it fell to Shirley.

Plus Shirley has this whole thing about appearances. Things have to look perfect, it's her way of dealing with things.

Ouhei
Oct 23, 2008

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Open Source Idiom posted:

Except he did see things. Right in the first episode there's a POV shot from his perspective, where he can see something chasing him and and his father as Steve's carried out of the house.

Steve didn't see anything (or at least didn't think he was seeing anything) until then, and his method of coping with everything is to live his life attempting to prove that ghosts don't exist so he can maintain that it was all in the heads of his family.

Finished the show last night and it was really good, I don't get why people were trying to hype up how scary this was (saw articles about people vomiting and passing out). The show is way more of a thriller than a horror story. I do agree with the general thought that the ending feels...off somehow. I liked that it was a somewhat happy ending since I usually find horror movie endings to be stupid in the whole "the survivors aren't really safe" thing, but the tonal shift in the house being evil, but maybe not really evil is sudden and a bit jarring. The Dudleys apparently just get to hang out with their dead daughter like normal and then the dead Crain members are together and seemingly happy in their new ghost life. My best guess is that the house itself is evil in that it fucks with people's heads, causing them to kill themselves and/or others who are then stuck there as ghosts. it seems to be somewhat up to the ghosts if they're going to be scary ghosts or just chill at that point.

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Bird in a Blender
Nov 17, 2005

It's amazing what they can do with computers these days.

I just finished it last night too. I hated that shift in the last episode to make it a happy ending, when the previous nine episodes seemed to be making the house out to be evil and makes everyone crazy. Turned into an odd mix of The Shining, and AHS season 1. Also felt the story was a little more compelling when you couldn't tell if the ghosts were actually real. I don't think any ghost was seen by more than one person until the last 2 or 3 episodes, when the ghosts became "real". Still liked the show overall, just didn't quite have the finish I was expecting or hoping for.

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