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It feels like MMOs were biggest when what they brought to the table - a world with many other players running around in it - was pretty much unique. Now that there are tons of games out there where you can get that without the gameplay tradeoffs a full-on MMO has by necessity, the MMO can't be as popular. Nowadays the only thing an MMO has to put it over a game that's not a true MMO but has multiplayer is the ability to get 30 players together to do a raid. And that's just not a good enough gimmick for the price of hamstringing all the gameplay in the game with the drawbacks it necessitates. And the administration required to put together a raid of 30 characters of specific types and level is more like work than fun.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:19
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The most important thing in an MMO is can I become a mogul by playing the auction house?
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Nov 20, 2018 14:03
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Ehud posted:The most important thing in an MMO is can I become a mogul by playing the auction house? To boldly go where at least one other goon has gone before. That is a noble aspiration
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Nov 20, 2018 16:01
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Wildstar shuts down forever in about 13 hours.
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Nov 28, 2018 09:50
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Blacula posted:Wildstar shuts down forever in about 13 hours. Godspeed, painfully obvious Rocket Raccoon ripoff mascot.
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Nov 28, 2018 11:36
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What would be the most played MMO for the Goons? I am looking to get into one but I want people to play with.
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Nov 29, 2018 01:41
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FFXIV my friend 
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Nov 29, 2018 01:56
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Candrr posted:What would be the most played MMO for the Goons? I am looking to get into one but I want people to play with. WoW and FFXIV and GW2 are the best options. WoW (the game not the goons) is in a bad shape right now though.
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Nov 29, 2018 06:06
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jokes posted:WoW and FFXIV and GW2 are the best options. WoW (the game not the goons) is in a bad shape right now though. Goons in good shape? 
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Nov 29, 2018 09:17
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Goonsquad EU is quite the epic guild, I'm assuming Mal'Ganis US squade is in great shape as well free classic hype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_usYQ0j4_MI Mr. Pickles fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Nov 29, 2018 |
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Nov 29, 2018 10:02
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jokes posted:WoW and FFXIV and GW2 are the best options. WoW (the game not the goons) is in a bad shape right now though. Destiny 2 also has a pretty huge goon population right now owing to the game suddenly not sucking, though it's not quite an MMO in the same way as WoW, FFXIV, and GW2 are.
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Nov 29, 2018 15:13
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D2 is very fun to play. It's like an FPS version of warframe, except its gameplay is engaging and fun, and does not suck. Warframe is really, really overrated.
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Nov 30, 2018 12:30
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I really want to like Warframe. The movement is great and I like the sheer variety of weapons and frames that are available. Apparently the big story questlines they add in big updates are really fantastic, too, once you get far enough to do them. It's just that getting started is such a huge uphill climb. There are so many different progression routes that all seem necessary in one way or another but don't really interlink and aren't really explained. I joined the goon clan and had people shower me with cool mods and help me understand how to get started and I still ended up feeling kind of lost and eventually stopped playing--I can't imagine what a totally solo player would do. I also know that there's not really an endgame. If I'm grinding to get really powerful weapons and mods to kill tough enemies, I'd really like there to be something to build towards. My preference would be tough group-focused endgame stuff that requires teamwork and choosing frames that have good synergy with one another. But even something that's a little more solo-focused, like some sort of endlessly-scaling thing like Diablo 3's rifts/PoE's maps would be good. Just something that's like, here's something really tough and dynamic that you can only do once you have really great weapons and mods and gives awesome rewards so you can do even cooler and crazier stuff. But Warframe doesn't really seem to have that (or, at least, that's the impression I get from reading a lot of longtime players' opinions of the endgame), which makes it hard to motivate myself to get past the initial learning curve and go through the rather samey missions.
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Nov 30, 2018 15:48
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For Warframe it all comes down to the movement system. If you love catapulting yourself around, then you'll find the gameplay engaging enough to progress through the game. If you don't, then the game isn't worth playing because other games do the remaining aspects of the gameplay better.
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Nov 30, 2018 15:55
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Warframe is 100% endgame. As soon as you login for the first time you're in an endgame progression grind like if you max leveled in an MMO. There are high level dailies that require really good gear and builds, but also dailies that you can run while still gearing up, and endless missions where you get better drops the longer you go, rep to grind, etc.. There's a steady content drip so you have a reason to keep coming back for new quests. The Warframes all play differently and can have different roles, so a lot of it is finding a frame(s) and weapon(s) that fit your playstyle. A lot of people quit before finding that though, as I did a couple times. But once you find that perfect fit...it's glorious.
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Dec 1, 2018 07:09
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Ossipago posted:Warframe is 100% endgame. As soon as you login for the first time you're in an endgame progression grind like if you max leveled in an MMO. There are high level dailies that require really good gear and builds, but also dailies that you can run while still gearing up, and endless missions where you get better drops the longer you go, rep to grind, etc.. There's a steady content drip so you have a reason to keep coming back for new quests. The Warframes all play differently and can have different roles, so a lot of it is finding a frame(s) and weapon(s) that fit your playstyle. A lot of people quit before finding that though, as I did a couple times. But once you find that perfect fit...it's glorious. This is correct, for better or worse.
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Dec 1, 2018 10:08
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Harrow posted:It's just that getting started is such a huge uphill climb. There are so many different progression routes that all seem necessary in one way or another but don't really interlink and aren't really explained. I joined the goon clan and had people shower me with cool mods and help me understand how to get started and I still ended up feeling kind of lost and eventually stopped playing--I can't imagine what a totally solo player would do. Actually for me starting out was very exciting because the game is really well thought out and looks cool. But once I figured the mechanics and how progression works, it just felt like a huge grind with nothing to look forward to. Leveling up lovely weapons constantly and farming for a poe-like trade system in order to get minmaxed builds that are repetitive at best, downright stupid at worst... Vaulting around is cool, sure, but it gets boring quick. It also trivializes multiplayer and solo play, in that you can actually run from anything no matter what you play, and the multiplayer experience becomes nothing more than people vaulting super fast to the objectives and cheesing everything while newer players lag behind. Fast paced gameplay isn't always good Owell, it's still one of the best truly F2P titles out there and the devs are doing a great job maintaining it and adding new content constantly. Everyone ought to at least try it if they wanna play casual shootie stuff, tbh. I just didn't find it worth the hassle PS: Archwing is loving awesome. I hope they add more and more of it.
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Dec 1, 2018 12:06
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CompeAnansi posted:For Warframe it all comes down to the movement system. If you love catapulting yourself around, then you'll find the gameplay engaging enough to progress through the game. If you don't, then the game isn't worth playing because other games do the remaining aspects of the gameplay better. For some reason the game decides to force you into playing as literally Shinji instead of your cool go-fast murderbot. That coupled with farming endo being a massive chore made me burn out. Mr. Pickles posted:PS: Archwing is loving awesome. I hope they add more and more of it. 
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Dec 1, 2018 19:16
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I just started playing EVE, we'll see how it goes.
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Dec 1, 2018 21:18
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puberty worked me over fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jan 4, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2018 21:58
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Warhammer PvP was my jam when it came out, log in find where your friends are go kill people for hours. Tier 2 I think it was tier 2 , was the most fun because they actually had the castles you could take. Only game I loved to heal on because I was an annoying warrior priest. The top tier stuff blew but only because no one cared and the huge capital city battles ended up empty and you just killed the boss and got rad poo poo you couldn't use because you weren't PvP level a million or whatever but up till then it was amazing. And it was super friendly to just make another tier 1 character to play with people who were still stuck in leveling or new to the game. It's a shame it all went to hell and I don't think the emu ever got much traction. And they had the best pitch man ever for that game. I just remember him saying "beat the snot out of people" a lot and his videos before it launched were funny.
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Dec 2, 2018 01:34
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No MMOs PvP scene will ever be as good and fun as WAR's T1 PvP.
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Dec 2, 2018 07:45
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What is even out on the MMO horizon? We have that Pantheon game for players that enjoyed the original Everquest 20 years ago, but it seems to be for an aging audience. Every time I see them upload a video, it has a few thousand views. How can a game like this sustain any sort of content cycle? There's that weird Ashes of Creation game that I'm still not sure what it is even trying to be. They have like 20 "ideas" guys and 1 programmer. The main dude has connections to an MLM scam which turned me right off. We have New World by Amazon which looks interesting as it appears to focused on open world PvP and claims to be a sandbox game, but I'm not sure how anyone will be able to pull off hardcore PvP with base capturing in a world where a twitch streamer with his 20,000 screechers will poo poo on anyone just by shear numbers. Blizzard isn't making any more MMOs after the disaster that was Titan, and it seems everyone(myself included) is only interested in reliving the good old days with Classic WoW. Maybe Guild Wars 3 will be a thing?
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Dec 2, 2018 17:09
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MMOs today don't take advantage of their defining trait: being massively multiplayer, or at least this was the case with WoW, FF14 and GW2 back when I tried them. Everything is instanced or isolated in some way, and everyone is the big dick hero of the tacked on, lovely story missions. There's hardly a reason to work together or even talk to anyone. The game hands out free groups, and don't about being a good player or a person, nobody will remember your name and the worst that will happen is people will boot you forcing you to - tab for 15 minutes while your group finder debuff runs out. Everything just falls into a bland routine wherein you log in, do your dailies and log out. There's no wonder or exploration anymore, and every class in these games are polished to a point of either being a boring, featureless orb; or a class with 47 active abilities, 15 of which are redundant and pointless. I was thinking of giving ESO a try, but I have a hard time believing that fares any better. Night Blade fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Dec 2, 2018 |
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Dec 2, 2018 19:09
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Night Blade posted:I was thinking of giving ESO a try, but I have a hard time believing that fares any better.
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Dec 2, 2018 20:21
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ESO is basically the logical conclusion of every bad part of modern MMO design coming together under a AAA budget and its so, so bad
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Dec 2, 2018 21:59
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On the flip side whenever I play Skyrim I find myself wishing for combat more like ESO's.
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Dec 2, 2018 23:05
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I’m fairly early in but I think ESO has some decent ideas around classes, skills and combat that are probably a coincidence from seemingly trying to make the game more and more of an “actual Elder Scrolls game” over the last few years.
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Dec 2, 2018 23:49
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it looks sooooo coooooooool 
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Dec 3, 2018 11:54
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Take a look at the whiplash from cinematic gameplay to gameplay gameplay for Lineage Eternal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00PX8gj2CIo
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Dec 3, 2018 16:51
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Night Blade posted:MMOs today don't take advantage of their defining trait: being massively multiplayer, or at least this was the case with WoW, FF14 and GW2 back when I tried them. Honestly, I just think that kind of multiplayer experience is gone, at least for the foreseeable future. If you look at the kinds of games coming out/being developed now, they're mostly in the "shared world"/instanced co-op mold, like Destiny, The Division, and Anthem. They retain some of what MMOs have--like grouped instanced PvE stuff, loot, and persistent character progression--but scale back on the massive part of "massively multiplayer." They're not full-on instanced like Diablo, Phantasy Star Online, or Guild Wars 1, but they sit in a middle ground, where you might run into players in small open-world instances, but without huge explorable zones, various cities and settlements, world PvP, or anything like that. I think I prefer that style to the WoW/FFXIV style, at least, if only because it seems to allow for more engaging moment-to-moment gameplay, but I think the old style of MMO, the kind that isn't laser-focused on endgame, seamless grouping, and steady progression, isn't likely to come back any time soon. Part of it is something I talked about earlier in this thread: the general MMO playerbase right now has a "the endgame is the real game" expectation. If an MMO comes out where that isn't the case, the narrative changes to "<new MMO> has no endgame, it's trash." It's hard to find a way to sell a game where the journey to max level is the "real" game, rather than the real game starting at max level. Players feel like you're wasting their time if leveling and progression are too slow--lots of them are adults with limited playtime per day, so if they're not making noticeable, discernible progress each time they log on, or if they have to wait for their fun to begin by trying to get a group together, they feel like their time is being wasted and they'll go play something else. Thing is, I don't think it's necessarily true that their time is being wasted (any more than it'd be wasted in any other game, of course). It's just that we've had a paradigm shift. If you approach an older MMO like EQ with the attitude that the whole game is the real game, the journey is the destination, etc., then logging on and taking your time, making friends, leveling slowly and exploring the world--all of those things become what the game is really about. If someone can find a way to sell that experience in an MMO to a market that is currently trained to believe that the endgame is the real game and getting to max level is just the prelude, then maybe it'll come back. I'll undercut my argument a bit here, though: there seems to be a real demand for multiplayer "screw around in an open world and mess with other players" games that I don't think is currently being met. Outside of janky, eternally early access "survival" games, there are also Rockstar's online offerings (GTA Online and soon RDR Online), but both of those are insanely grindy and tuned to milk a handful of whales rather than provide a satisfying gameplay experience for everyone. I guess there's also... whatever Sea of Thieves is. If someone could come along and offer what people hoped Red Dead Online would be, for example, I could see that seriously taking off. You'd have to focus on emergent gameplay, reactive NPCs and events, and player freedom. Try for seamless instancing similar to WoW's "phasing" tech, where you don't see hordes of players in the open world but do run into other players regularly enough that either cooperation or conflict emerges. Make losing a fight cost you something (and make it so winning a fight against a player gains you something), but not so much that new players just get griefed out of existence by well-equipped veterans. And most of all, avoid pay to win, which is where Rockstar falls down. Red Dead Online, for example, has a massively hosed up economy and extremely limited interaction with the world (like you can't even steal horses or rob NPCs like you can in single-player), likely because they want to lure in the whales currently shoveling money into GTA Online who are willing to pay to skip an intentionally onerous grind. That still wouldn't be what we're talking about, though, to be fair. I'm not sure I'd expect to see a fully PvE game that really encourages players to band together in an organic way (instead of through impersonal group finders) becoming big again, not for a long while, at least. But I think there's room for variety and I hope someone tries to provide that sooner than later. Harrow fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Dec 3, 2018 17:53
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You basically explained why some people still play EVE.
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Dec 3, 2018 18:52
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Fried Watermelon posted:Take a look at the whiplash from cinematic gameplay to gameplay gameplay for Lineage Eternal: why are arpgs so bland they look like something whipped up for a law and order plotpoint suddenly being released as mainstays of formerly venerable, good series
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Dec 3, 2018 19:23
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I've been looking forward to WoW classic because my brain is broken, but the announcement that they'll charge full price for the subscription kind of took the wind out of my sails. So I started playing the FFXIV trial and it's surprisingly generous in what it lets you do, especially in comparison to WoWs garbage trial accounts. Not sure whether I'll get around to upgrading it eventually, but it's been rather enjoyable for the last two weeks. What's even the third biggest MMO right now? WoW and FFXIV are a given (although the latter is more of a miracle than anything), but I never really hear much about other MMOs aside from the eternal reign of Lineage in korea.
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Dec 3, 2018 19:42
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Old school runescape is now available on mobile, so maybe that?
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Dec 3, 2018 19:52
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Zwiebel posted:What's even the third biggest MMO right now? WoW and FFXIV are a given (although the latter is more of a miracle than anything), but I never really hear much about other MMOs aside from the eternal reign of Lineage in korea. It's hard to know because nobody's publishing their player/subscriber numbers anymore and the only MMO that really gets any regular press is WoW. If I had to guess, I'd guess the third largest (in the Western market, specifically) is Guild Wars 2, but also that it's a distant third.
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Dec 3, 2018 19:53
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Harrow posted:Part of it is something I talked about earlier in this thread: the general MMO playerbase right now has a "the endgame is the real game" expectation. Players like levelling up and becoming more powerful but the old-fashioned idea of using that as an arbitrary gating mechanism for progress/content is now rightly reviled. It's amazing that mmos lasted as long as they did designing dungeons that became obsolete for 99% of their player base every update, and requiring hundreds of hours of play before you could play with your friend who got the game a week earlier.
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Dec 3, 2018 20:58
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sassassin posted:Players like levelling up and becoming more powerful but the old-fashioned idea of using that as an arbitrary gating mechanism for progress/content is now rightly reviled. I know that the reason I like FFXIV the most is that it gives you progression on the same character. Just as important, you're likely to continue seeing all the content in the game forever (except I guess a lot of open world junk) and it remains balanced. FFXIV syncs (actually caps) your character and stats down to fit the content you're doing through it's dungeon party finder. You lose access to a lot of your skills, for example, doing the first dungeon (lowest level), and need to rely on your tank/healer to clear it. WoW doesn't do this, so a lot of MMOs also don't do this sync so when new content comes out, all old content is obsolete. Which is exhausting. FFXIV also handles new classes really well. When a new class comes out, it is mostly balanced for the entire game. If it starts at 50, your spellbook states you "learned" a skill at level 20. If you're synced to 16, you don't get to use that skill. So you're on equal spell parity with other classes at that level. In WoW if you wanna do deadmines without cheesing it, you better start a character and do it before your level/gear outpace it. There's a difference between an experience being gone forever too bad so sad, and having the bulk of that experience kept in a little bottle like FFXIV and it's frustrating how most MMOs just poo poo all over old content. Doing a dungeon (even old raids are treated largely the same) from pre-expansion content in FFXIV is like 85% the same experience, the same mechanics, the same time commitment, the same combat overall as it was back then and also you get new, relevant incentives for doing it. You just don't hit for 10 million HP per swing and kill everything in one hit (unless you opt to go unsynced). Open world content always becomes irrelevant in typical MMOs of course, but GW2 makes it interesting to go back and do old poo poo. Dungeons and raids, the bulk of the poo poo you're gonna do in MMOs, can at least be kept somewhat relevant and engaging/fun, and I'm glad FFXIV opts to do so.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:40
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Levelling up got really boring when MMO designers realized they could get people to pay for level boosts and they had to have a hundred quests in a row for everyone to have the same set of gear and be the same level or if you get bored of that then you can load up the groupfinder and do the same instances a dozen times. To answer the op i'm going back through anarchy online and it's interesting how stuff is gated behind hard level requirements, timesinks, your random groupmates, or just being lucky. Obviously there's the overarching grind to get to the maximum level but in each static instance you start out trying not to die and then eventually you start killing king turd of the newbie dungeon to get the codpiece that adds 5 points of speed. Of course you can have your high level friend guide you through the whole thing and get you all your gear but then you missed out on half of the experience (literal, even) and you're stuck grinding to make up the difference. I guess I'd call that the massively multiplayer part of the game versus the "personal story" loneliness the newer games are going for.
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Dec 3, 2018 21:57
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jokes posted:FFXIV syncs (actually caps) your character and stats down to fit the content you're doing through it's dungeon party finder. You lose access to a lot of your skills, for example, doing the first dungeon (lowest level), and need to rely on your tank/healer to clear it. WoW doesn't do this, so a lot of MMOs also don't do this sync so when new content comes out, all old content is obsolete. Which is exhausting.
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Dec 4, 2018 00:20
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