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There's a not-fast-food joint by me that has beyond burgers and Mrs. Frogge and I go and get it every other week because we know if these things aren't supported then they'll stop being offered and stuff like the beyond burger is a good pivot point for those curious omnivores to eat less meat. They even use Chao cheese, too. I would definitely get lab grown meat where it was available, but it would be a once in a blue moon novelty for me I think.
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Oct 3, 2019 19:39
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frogge posted:There's a not-fast-food joint by me that has beyond burgers and Mrs. Frogge and I go and get it every other week because we know if these things aren't supported then they'll stop being offered and stuff like the beyond burger is a good pivot point for those curious omnivores to eat less meat. They even use Chao cheese, too. Beyond Burgers and their relatives are in such high demand that the companies that make them were having trouble meeting demand and restaurants were having trouble keeping them in stock, so don't feel like you have to go out and buy them if you don't feel like eating one. Maybe it's a fad that will pass but right now they're doing just fine.
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Oct 3, 2019 22:18
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Conceptually I have absolutely no problem eating lab grown meat, but my framework for veganism mostly stems from empathy for the creatures that have to die to be eaten. I would also be fine--conceptually--eating meat prepared from, for example, a lot of indigenous American cultures that engage in ethical hunting and respect for the animals they do eat. A lot of it is mostly intent, I suppose, and in the end that really only applies to how I view others engagement with it. So, yeah, that's a no from me. I've been vegan for just over a year now and I haven't had any real cravings for meat, nor have I missed it beyond certain types of dishes--which, realistically, is mostly for the sauces or spices used--and I otherwise don't really think about it much.
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Oct 4, 2019 03:27
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I meant the restaurant itself not the supplier.
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Oct 4, 2019 09:46
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Ebeneezer Splooge posted:Maybe I was asking the wrong question in this case then, trying to cover too broad a population. This is a good time to bring up the point about veganism that non-vegans don’t realise: there aren’t actually any rules. I didn’t go vegan and the very next day a shady guy approached me in the street with a dossier of things I could and couldn’t do, I just decided I was going to make my own educated decisions. For me it’s not about making sure absolutely no animal products enter my system at any cost but partly about removing myself from what I consider an inefficient and unsustainable supply chain of food, and mostly about forcing myself to eat better. I’ve usually had my five a day by lunchtime - that’s what makes me feel better about myself than the fact my food only took 200 litres of water to produce and not 1000. There is this idea that veganism and environmentalism are the same thing. Just yesterday someone saw me carrying a plastic bag and asked why I use plastic bags when I’m vegan. I regularly get asked by apparently intelligent people why I smoke cigarettes when I’m vegan...the fact that tobacco is a plant and not a mashed up panda apparently escapes them. I have a leather jacket (bought before vegan) which I still wear on occasion because, well, it’s a loving nice jacket and that particular cow is already dead. I’m going to a friends birthday dinner tonight - I’ve checked the menu online and they have a vegetarian menu but not a vegan one, so I’ll take an educated guess as to what is probably vegan and order that. I’m not having the staff checking labels and holding up everyone else’s dinners on the off chance there are beetle tears in the Singapore sauce. There’s also this idea that meat is a perfect food and if it suddenly becomes ethical and harm-free then vegans and vegetarians are going to be shouting, “oh thank GOD I can finally eat meat again!”. Whilst that might - MIGHT - be the case if it was invented in the 1960s, today is 2019. There is an alternative for just about everything and some of them are better than the ‘real’ thing. There’s also the thing that crept up on me that I didn’t even want to admit to myself. I don’t think it’s a 100% consensus but it does seem to be the majority opinion..... meat doesn’t actually taste very nice.
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Oct 4, 2019 12:09
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duckmaster posted:This is a good time to bring up the point about veganism that non-vegans don’t realise: there aren’t actually any rules. edit: Like I have a friend, she tells people she vegetarian, but she's not. My partner didn't know this so when we threw a Thanksgiving party they went out of their way to make a vegetarian dish so my friend has something to eat. Friend arrives and starts munching on the salmon. Words have meanings, just use them correctly. Also if you went to a restaurant and ordered a dish marked vegan, and it came with a piece of meat in it, would you just nod and say "There aren't actually any rules, this is fine"? twodot fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 20:16
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twodot posted:The whole thing about being vegan is that there are rules. If you don't want to follow the rules, you don't have to, but then you are not vegan.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:19
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Also, people who aren't vegan and aren't being inconvenienced by it should shut up about what is or isn't "vegan " or "stupid" or "hypocritical." I ate exclusively vegan for years, and then for two semesters of college I started having a weekly post-lab ritual with a friend where we went out and I'd eat wings and drink a bunch of beer. I inconvenienced no one, but loads of people happy to eat wings got unbelievably pissed about me being a "hypocrite." Who cares? I was still happy with my choices and I wasn't ever demanding anyone make accommodations for me for the other dozens of vegan meals I ate in a week.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:35
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Also, people who aren't vegan and aren't being inconvenienced by it should shut up about what is or isn't "vegan " or "stupid" or "hypocritical."
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Oct 4, 2019 20:42
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twodot posted:How did they know you stopped being vegan if you inconvenienced no one? I like to try to be intentional about the foot print of my diet, but I don't go around telling people that because I also don't mind just eating a pepperoni pizza, so my friends aren't ever surprised by me eating a pepperoni pizza. If there's a group of people in your life that are surprised by you eating wings, I feel like they at some point made some sort of conscious choice to accommodate your previously non-wings diet. Because I said things like "me and Mike got wings last night, y'all should come next time." While eating a vegan meal for lunch, that I brought or bought for myself.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:44
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Because I said things like "me and Mike got wings last night, y'all should come next time." While eating a vegan meal for lunch, that I brought or bought for myself. edit: I know a guy who is effectively vegan due to a cholesterol thing, but he doesn't identify as vegan and wouldn't call his lunches vegan even if they technically meet the criteria a lot of the time. twodot fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 20:47
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twodot posted:Ok but how did they know that your lunch was vegan or how did they know you knew your lunch was vegan? Like were they inspecting your lunch for bits of cheese? edit: Calling yourself a vegan while you have a chicken wings habit though... Read what you want into it but the definition of hypocrisy is: quote:the practice of claiming to have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case. so that kind of applies? Like if someone offered you a mayo to dip your chicken wings in would you say "no thanks, i'm vegan"? Mata fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 20:59
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twodot posted:Ok but how did they know that your lunch was vegan or how did they know you knew your lunch was vegan? Like were they inspecting your lunch for bits of cheese? Because I had mentioned being vegan before as in “no thanks I’m vegan” and “what are you eating?” “This thing here I bring it a lot” None of these people had or have ever had to cook for me friend, you’re literally doing the thing. And no I didn’t claim to be vegan while eating wings you absolute buffoon. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 22:19
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Shut up twodot. No one cares what you think about how other people talk about their diet.
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Oct 5, 2019 10:25
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You can be Vegan as an identity, vegan as a dietary choice and vegan for a meal. If someone else lectures you on how to be properly vegan, tell them to cram a organic hand woven hemp sock in it.
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Oct 5, 2019 10:40
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axolotl farmer posted:You can be Vegan as an identity, vegan as a dietary choice and vegan for a meal.
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Oct 5, 2019 16:12
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If someone says that they’re vegan, and you spot them eating wings the next day, that’s their business. If they are invited for dinner, get served a specially prepared vegan meal, then end up eating the non-vegan dish the other people at the dinner are having then they’re being a tool.
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Oct 5, 2019 16:41
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axolotl farmer posted:If someone says that they’re vegan, and you spot them eating wings the next day, that’s their business. But, in the same way as someone saying they're an elite hacker who contracts with the FBI when in fact they can barely operate a computer is their business. No skin off anyone else's nose, but when the contradiction is observed, the observer will conclude that the person is a liar or stupid. And it is a sensible conclusion to draw. 100% up to the person if they want to be seen that way though, totally their own business.
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Oct 5, 2019 16:54
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It's none of my concern what someone eats in their off time, but if they carry on about being ~*gluten free*~ and act like it's an actual thing, so they make sure to only go to the restaurants that can serve something that'll be reasonably filling, and when they come over my house, I need to make sure my utensils and dishes are clean, I'm going to be proper irritated when they're chowing down on a Panera sandwich on weekends, because, "It's not /that/ big a deal." Bitch I'm about to throw this bag of bob's red mill GF all purpose flour at your smug rear end face, because that was fully not necessary.
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Oct 5, 2019 16:59
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The "there's no lawbook for veganism" thing is about whether thrifted wool is OK or whether you have to know if the mono fatty nuclear acids in your ramen are vegan, not about whether you eat meat or not. I'm fully pro flexiveganism because the point is reducing meat consumption rather than creating a religion, but I mean come on
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Oct 5, 2019 18:31
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dino. posted:It's none of my concern what someone eats in their off time, but if they carry on about being ~*gluten free*~ and act like it's an actual thing, so they make sure to only go to the restaurants that can serve something that'll be reasonably filling, and when they come over my house, I need to make sure my utensils and dishes are clean, I'm going to be proper irritated when they're chowing down on a Panera sandwich on weekends, because, "It's not /that/ big a deal." Bitch I'm about to throw this bag of bob's red mill GF all purpose flour at your smug rear end face, because that was fully not necessary. gluten free is literally a fake thing that companies sell and only matters to actual people with celiac disease. Also sorry that eating wings once a week for less than a year in a single explicitly-described circumstance that I happily told everyone who asked about has forever compromised my former veganism and current vegetarianism, I will make soy-, chickpea-, and black bean-based replacement offers to the gods of not eating meat for forgiveness.
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Oct 5, 2019 19:42
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:gluten free is literally a fake thing that companies sell and only matters to actual people with celiac disease. No no, you're fine, Edgar. If you're not asking someone else to make you something vegan, and you're not actually vegan, you're fine. From what it sounds like, you bring your own lunch, and aren't actively calling yourself a vegan, and specifically mentioning that you just eat the food. Don't feel attacked, you're cool. It's less you doing your own thing and people getting up your rear end, and more the ones who swear they have Issues To Deal With, and then all of a sudden you realise that they're full of poo poo. Because seriously, KAREN, "gluten sensitivity" is not a thing. You just want to be like Susan, who has actual Celiac and will wind up in the hospital if she gets another idiot who told her the gravy's gluten free and they used roux to thicken instead of cornstarch as they swore they do.
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Oct 6, 2019 02:31
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Also sorry that eating wings once a week for less than a year in a single explicitly-described circumstance that I happily told everyone who asked about has forever compromised my former veganism and current vegetarianism, I will make soy-, chickpea-, and black bean-based replacement offers to the gods of not eating meat for forgiveness. Eating wings once a week made it bullshit for you to claim to be vegan while you were deliberately eating wings once a week, and people probably thought less of you if you did claim to be vegan during that time, but it has no bearing at all on what you eat or can legitimately claim to be now, or before that period. (And if you said "I'm vegan except I eat wings once a week" or didn't say you were vegan at all during that time then that wasn't bullshit, except maybe a little bit bullshit because it brings to mind the people who say they're vegetarian because they don't eat meat with every meal.)
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Oct 6, 2019 02:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:gluten free is literally a fake thing that companies sell and only matters to actual people with celiac disease. Sorry you gotta hand over your badge and gun for that. You're now excommunicado, forced to live as not quite meat-eater and not quite veg-edge. Hardliners are delusional zealots, and being flexible is just fine as long as you stick to your own rules.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:05
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frogge posted:Sorry you gotta hand over your badge and gun for that. You're now excommunicado, forced to live as not quite meat-eater and not quite veg-edge.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:15
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twodot posted:Being flexible is great. I am a flexible person. The entire point of the word "vegan" is that it isn't flexible. There's a bunch of non-vegan words that can describe flexible people, including "flexible". This seems really important to you, and that’s fine, but it isn’t that important to anyone else, and that should be fine with you too. No one likes the dude that argues semantics, and no one likes the capital-V lifestyle vegans bitching about honey.
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Oct 12, 2019 17:41
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Sweet Custom Van posted:This seems really important to you, and that’s fine, but it isn’t that important to anyone else, and that should be fine with you too. No one likes the dude that argues semantics, and no one likes the capital-V lifestyle vegans bitching about honey.
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Oct 12, 2019 18:09
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Sweet Custom Van posted:This seems really important to you, and that’s fine, but it isn’t that important to anyone else, and that should be fine with you too. No one likes the dude that argues semantics, and no one likes the capital-V lifestyle vegans bitching about honey.
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Oct 13, 2019 00:50
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