|
It would be much better if the hog and deer populations were managed by large predators and would stay in the ecosystem so to say
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:20 |
|
|
Kill the wolves! They literally kill and eat the farmers chickens!
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:21
|
|
|
Ras Het posted:It would be much better if the hog and deer populations were managed by large predators and would stay in the ecosystem so to say There's a lot of things that would be better for whatever reasons. But until we reach your idea of utopia, hunting is the best way to get meat in a moral fashion while also helping the environment. von Braun posted:Kill the wolves! They literally kill and eat the farmers chickens! That's the other side of eating a plants from a store. Unless you're growing all your own food, most likely there's a large factory farm that's destroying the ecosystem by spraying chemicals, killing all the animals in the area, and destroying forest in order to grow soybeans (or whatever crop). von Braun posted:Kill the wolves! They literally kill and eat the farmers, chickens! My brain added a comma to your post. lol spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jan 31, 2019 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 17:22
|
|
|
Yeah, in North America hunting deer and hogs isn’t ideal but it’s by far the best way to get meat if environmentalism is a concern. They do need to be culled (and if not hunted and eaten they’ll be trophy hunted or just exterminated) and the population of predators, even if everyone were to commit fully to restoring them tomorrow, is not going to bounce back over night.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Yeah, in North America hunting deer and hogs isn’t ideal but it’s by far the best way to get meat if environmentalism is a concern. They do need to be culled (and if not hunted and eaten they’ll be trophy hunted or just exterminated) and the population of predators, even if everyone were to commit fully to restoring them tomorrow, is not going to bounce back over night. Just out of curiosity, why isn't managed hunting ideal? Why isn't controlling when/where/how much we hunt, with oversight from scientists who track animal populations, enough?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2019 18:47
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:There's a lot of things that would be better for whatever reasons. This is true. But the policy argument isn’t’ that a plant based diet is perfect. The policy argument is that a plant based diet is better than a meat based diet. Which is demonstrably true.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 00:58
|
|
|
Edgar Allen Ho posted:Yeah, in North America hunting deer and hogs isn’t ideal but it’s by far the best way to get meat if environmentalism is a concern. They do need to be culled (and if not hunted and eaten they’ll be trophy hunted or just exterminated) and the population of predators, even if everyone were to commit fully to restoring them tomorrow, is not going to bounce back over night.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 16:59
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:Just out of curiosity, why isn't managed hunting ideal? I was using a “natural” culling by predators as the ideal. That’s probably not possible while maintaining human civilization, especially in the short term. Managed hunting and sustainable use of pasture is more realistic. It’d be a reduction in the amount of meat the average first worlder eats, nevertheless.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2019 02:53
|
|
|
spacetoaster posted:Just out of curiosity, why isn't managed hunting ideal? Even if human hunters were to kill the exact same number of game as a wild predator, it would actually have a different effect. The exact forces involved are complicated, but for many species predators produce what we call the landscape of fear that can dramatically effect patterns of vegetation and even hydrology. For example the presence of tiger sharks in Australian sea grass beds produces marked changes in dugong browsing habits. Instead of systematically clearing vegetation, dugong keep to edges of grass beds where they can quickly escape into open water, instead of entering the middle of dense stands where they can be surprised by hungry sharks. This creates a mosaic of open corridors and dense stands that provides better and more diverse habitat for all species. Additionally, humans are often not as good as we think when it comes to management. Wild predators are immune to budget cuts, they don't lose interest in game as fashion and sport trends change. They're out there 24/7 performing their services. Unlike humans, they don't secretly and illegally transport boar to new locations for the sake of their hobby or to sell hunting leases.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2019 03:08
|
|
|
Yo so if anyone's considering giving this a shot either full-time, or just working plant-based meals into their diets (both are great decisions!) now is the time to get started. Del Taco has beyond meat tacos, Burger King has impossible burgers, Carl's Jr is hosed up because no one can give a clear answer on whether or not their buns are vegan (tbh just assume they are). But this is me also offering my services to help discuss working plant-based meals into your diet more personally. I went to school for nutrition, I do meal planning for people. Happy to help if anyone wants it.
|
|
#
?
May 9, 2019 23:04
|
|
|
Not wanting to start drama... but what about all the vegan kids who've died or nearly done so from malnutrition? There's been a number of court convictions of this in recent years worldwide but what's the opinion of this thread on the matter? I'm of the opinion that most people should eat less meat and other animal products... but it seems that a purely vegan diet can quite easily kill a baby. That suggests to me it's not really ideal for anyone to eat this way, particularly since at least one study by the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that 92 percent of vegans suffered from vitamin B deficiencies vs 5 percent for those who consumed meat. It's also pretty well established fractures are a full third more common in vegans than in the general populace. Yes I know that with careful planning you can probably avoid some of these problems... but most people don't realistically eat that way and if we're going to switch to more or entirely plant based diets this surely needs some thinking about on a large scale. I'm also concerned about the connections between pseudoscience types and veganism - certainly vegans make up a much higher percentage of anti-vaxxers than they do of the general population... why do people think that might be?
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 05:21
|
|
|
Stoner Sloth posted:Not wanting to start drama... but what about all the vegan kids who've died or nearly done so from malnutrition? A vegan that doesn't feed their baby milk (medical reasons aside) is an absolute moron. Veganism is about consent, an animal can't consent to its murder for meat so not going to happen. The mother of a child can definitely consent to giving her breast milk to her child. There is no two ways about it.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 05:48
|
|
|
Stoner Sloth posted:Not wanting to start drama... but what about all the vegan kids who've died or nearly done so from malnutrition? quote:I'm of the opinion that most people should eat less meat and other animal products... but it seems that a purely vegan diet can quite easily kill a baby. quote:That suggests to me it's not really ideal for anyone to eat this way, particularly since at least one study by the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that 92 percent of vegans suffered from vitamin B deficiencies vs 5 percent for those who consumed meat. 11 of 12 vegans who don't take vitamins and attend a Vegan Society summer camp in the Netherlands is still reasonably compelling, but extremely different from 92% of vegans, and the way that's buried under layers of more dramatic sounding things in the abstract makes me suspicious of bias. quote:It's also pretty well established fractures are a full third more common in vegans than in the general populace. Basically science in these areas is a bunch of useless bullshit, sponsored on one side by dairy promoters, and biased on the other side by studies performed by zealots, and both groups don't publish anything that doesn't find what they wanted to find, so you pretty much can't trust any of it in either direction. (So of course people do trust it in whichever direction backs up their own preconceptions.) quote:I'm also concerned about the connections between pseudoscience types and veganism - certainly vegans make up a much higher percentage of anti-vaxxers than they do of the general population... why do people think that might be? But there's also probably some genuine correlation because vegans are more likely to be anti-establishment, since they're going against societal norms already, so opinions resulting from mistrust of other aspects of societal norms could be a natural correlation. So that'd go with all the pseudoscience. And I'm sure it doesn't help that vegans are quite likely to try to read science about being vegan, leading them to the sort of contradictions linked in this post - I can totally see how this would turn one off mainstream science, so you'd maybe give some pseudoscience a try, experience a nice little placebo effect, and bam, you've got yourself an imaginary coverup by big pharma of the best treatments ever, I swear a crystal fixed my hypochondria!
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 06:04
|
|
|
Parents of malniurished vegan children are pretty much without exception pseudoscience idiots. The kid usually have some medical issue and stop gaining weight and the parents add more crystals to their bed instead of seeing a doctor. When babies are small, they breastfeed. Then they start eating regular food. At no point do they need milk from other animals, meat or eggs. A balanced vegan diet isn’t difficult to put together. Add a B12 and you’re done.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 06:11
|
|
|
Thanks - good points everyone who replied, and yeah as I looked further into it there seems to be all number of rubbish studies from both sides of the fence as RftT sugested - most have tiny samples and really aren't good quality, basically using science the way drunks use a lamp post. I did notice, and this isn't scientific at all, but it became apparent as a I looked around that there are a number of veganism promoting sites at the very least listed anti-vaxxer argument without quite taking a stance on the matter which is a worry but without hard data doesn't prove anything at all. Would be good to get actual numbers from better studies if anyone can find some, I'll keep looking and see what I can dig up.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 06:19
|
|
|
Stoner Sloth posted:I did notice, and this isn't scientific at all, but it became apparent as a I looked around that there are a number of veganism promoting sites at the very least listed anti-vaxxer argument without quite taking a stance on the matter which is a worry but without hard data doesn't prove anything at all. It just happens that vegans are a group with a particularly aggressive public shitposting contingent, because it ticks all the boxes for encouraging shitposting - it's big enough that you're safe from being ignored, it's on a subject everyone feels strongly about (food), it's got an ethical component (on all the axes! Health, environment, exploitation, poverty, you can be better than other people in every way!) so you can look down on other people, it's old enough to have a whole bunch of garbage science backing up whatever point you want to believe, and a bunch of garbage science you disagree with that you can legitimately disbelieve for being garbage science and sneer at those other gullible people for believing. A perfect storm. Edit: also just mentioning vegans is basically a successful trolling of any conversation, as you can derail anything into "but bacon" and "but would vegans eat engineered meat" and "what about bees" and so on, and you can also take the antivax "some of the vaccines carriers have animal products in them" route so you can justify your fear of needles before you even get near the pseudoscience! roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 06:38 on May 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 06:35
|
|
|
roomforthetuna posted:I suspect you could fairly easily notice a similar correlation with, eg. paleo diet advocates and anti-vaxxers. My hypothesis is "people who are already publicly propounding strong opinions on things that aren't well-understood or mainstream are more likely to do the same thing on another topic than people who aren't already doing that kind of thing." Yeah - you're probably right on some or all of this. Also wanted to say that while I haven't ever met a pushy veganism advocate IRL yet if they aren't just a straw man entirely, I've met at least 2 paleo advocates who reckoned it'd cure pretty much every disease and that all health problems stem from eating carbs and decided to obnoxiously give me this advice unsolicited. They also then proceeded to get upset when I didn't agree. Vegetarianism I think I could more easily get behind, I think than, veganism but yeah - not judging anyone who isn't about the pseudoscience and decides to go vegan but it seems to me to be healthier anecdotally at least. A diet where you have to have constantly consume supplements seems to me not to be one that's "naturally" healthy and I think with most of the food being vegetarian we could greatly limit environmental impact, potentially even more so than if everyone became vegan.  Anyway hope the OP does well with his new diet! Good luck mate! e: Did find this article that links to numerous studies on the nutritional stuff https://theconversation.com/vegan-diets-are-adding-to-malnutrition-in-wealthy-countries-107555 Stoner Sloth fucked around with this message at 07:46 on May 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 07:20
|
|
|
Stoner Sloth posted:Vegetarianism I think I could more easily get behind, I think than, veganism but yeah - not judging anyone who isn't about the pseudoscience and decides to go vegan but it seems to me to be healthier anecdotally at least. A diet where you have to have constantly consume supplements seems to me not to be one that's "naturally" healthy and I think with most of the food being vegetarian we could greatly limit environmental impact, potentially even more so than if everyone became vegan. (For a more complete long-term vegan anecdote, I have broken one bone in my life, when I got knocked off my bike by a truck, and I have a bit of a shoddy knee cartilage in one knee that occasionally hurts a bit and sounds like rice-krispies. I gather this is not at all an unusual amount of bad skeleton for a 42 year old. Ordinary teeth but a bit "pockety" in the gums probably more to do with not being willing to put up with teeth-straightening gear than bone quality, above average nails, no noticeable hair loss, 20% body fat which is apparently in the "good" category for a 42 year old. I hate exercise and basically never do any but I can still do a couple of pull-ups or run about a half-mile if I feel it's necessary for some reason. Compared to others of my age in my same computer-touching job, I'm physically in a relatively good way, but I don't necessarily attribute it to being vegan, more likely to the primary side-effect of being vegan, cooking my own food a lot of the time rather than eating packaged stuff. Not that I don't still eat quite a lot of packaged stuff, but less than an average person. And mentally I'm not depressed, in need of medication, or bad at everything, so that's probably above average too since it's pretty rare to find people avoiding all three of those. My memory is pretty bad though, and also my memory is pretty bad. And my sense of humor is the worst. And I write too many words.) roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 14:22 on May 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 07:50
|
|
|
Well that's interesting and puts it in a bit better perspective... though a sample of one is obviously nothing to take conclusions from either way of course. I would note that B vitamin deficiencies aren't an instant death sentence though - you can go a long time while being deficient and it'd also depend how deficient you were, probably be pretty rare to see someone die from anemia caused by lack of b12? From what I've read though it does do neural damage over the longer term and can even lead to permanent symptoms including poor memory, fatigue, low mood and irritability and potentially even lead to forms of dementia like that suffered by alcoholics with a poor diet. Also yeah vitamin D and calcium are supposed to be a potential problem but I'm sure that a lot of that comes down to genetics - some people seem to absorb these easier and to build stronger bones more easily than others. Plus no doubt exercise plays a part too. All in all I'd expect that one would come down to how vulnerable to it you are, some people therefore might not be suited to a vegan diet. I'd also read somewhere that some of the supplements, particularly the plant based ones favoured by vegans, aren't necessarily absorbed that well and may interfere with absorbing other important vitamins? Not sure how accurate any of that is, I'm on the sidelines here but think if I were to go vegan I'd really want to keep having my bloods taken consistently just to check on these things since many of the health risks seem to be stuff that you could easily not notice as a problem for a long time while it's doing you damage. Then again, on the other hand, since you probably pay way more attention to what you're eating than most people it's bound to have a raft of health benefits too from that alone that'd have to be weighed against potential risks to fairly judge vegan diets in health terms anyways. I wouldn't doubt you're way healthier than me for example. e: Anyway does seem to be a real risk, at least for some people, but probably one that gets exaggerated a lot to attack veganism too. But pretty clearly you're doing okay for someone who hasn't used much supplements so obviously the 'constantly having to take supplements' is an exaggeration at the very least, that much is clear. Stoner Sloth fucked around with this message at 08:38 on May 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 08:12
|
|
|
Stoner Sloth posted:I would note that B vitamin deficiencies aren't an instant death sentence though - you can go a long time while being deficient and it'd also depend how deficient you were, probably be pretty rare to see someone die from anemia caused by lack of b12?  quote:From what I've read though it does do neural damage over the longer term and can even lead to permanent symptoms including poor memory, fatigue, low mood and irritability and potentially even lead to forms of dementia like that suffered by alcoholics with a poor diet. quote:Also yeah vitamin D and calcium are supposed to be a potential problem but I'm sure that a lot of that comes down to genetics - some people seem to absorb these easier and to build stronger bones more easily than others. Plus no doubt exercise plays a part too. All in all I'd expect that one would come down to how vulnerable to it you are, some people therefore might not be suited to a vegan diet. quote:Not sure how accurate any of that is, I'm on the sidelines here but think if I were to go vegan I'd really want to keep having my bloods taken consistently just to check on these things since many of the health risks seem to be stuff that you could easily not notice as a problem for a long time while it's doing you damage. quote:Then again, on the other hand, since you probably pay way more attention to what you're eating than most people it's bound to have a raft of health benefits too from that alone that'd have to be weighed against potential risks to fairly judge vegan diets in health terms anyways. I wouldn't doubt you're way healthier than me for example. Oh, also I nearly forgot to mention, the pushy vegan jerks thing isn't just a straw man, there's a real one on a mailing list at my work, but there's an equally pushy jerk who bursts into every thread where a vegan asks that foods be trivially separated, yelling essentially "no don't do it I don't want to have to sprinkle cheese on my food myself!" They're also both extremely vehement about citing their side of garbage science as fact.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2019 14:46
|
|
|
Stoner Sloth posted:I would note that B vitamin deficiencies aren't an instant death sentence though - you can go a long time while being deficient and it'd also depend how deficient you were, probably be pretty rare to see someone die from anemia caused by lack of b12? Let's be real for a second, this doesn't happen. What's killing people in 2019 is heart disease, diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure and stroke. The myth that veganism is somehow less healthy is fueling this health crisis.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2019 11:17
|
|
|
Interesting time to find this thread. My fiancee and I dropped all meat completely on labor day weekend of this past September and have done plant based and fish since. Our reasons are almost entirely ethical, and our eventual goal is to get to Vegan, but I think we're going to end at some sort of hybrid Vegetarian/Pescetarian for quite a while. The biggest shortfall for me weight/healthwise is pasta. Pasta kills me because it's always our default when we don't have a meal planned out, and I used to eat it about once every 10-14 days, roughly. Now we're doing some sort of pasta meal twice a week it seems, which is far too much imo, at least for me. I did this diet shift around 12 years ago to vegetarian/pescetarian for about 2.5 years and fell off the wagon. This time around is different, though. I've seen far too many slaughterhouse videos and just can't do it anymore while my cat curls up to me at night. I'm 8 months in and have absolutely zero desire for meat this time around, whereas last time I'd have to constantly remind myself why. Actually, it was this exact article that started it: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/boss-hog-the-dark-side-of-americas-top-pork-producer-68087/ Ordered How Not to Die and will be reading as soon as I get it. TheKevman fucked around with this message at 12:20 on May 15, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2019 12:17
|
|
|
Wholegrain pasta with a decent amount of veggies is a perfectly decent meal healthwise, even if white pasta is total trash. Couscous, bulgur and buckwheat are good lazy options too
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2019 12:58
|
|
|
This is it. This is the worst thread.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2019 08:52
|
|
|
immortalyawn posted:This is it. It was fine until you posted.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2019 11:37
|
|
|
Ras Het posted:Wholegrain pasta with a decent amount of veggies is a perfectly decent meal healthwise, even if white pasta is total trash. Couscous, bulgur and buckwheat are good lazy options too is it, though? what nutrients do you think you're getting from that meal?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2019 15:32
|
|
|
I have to say, I'm with redeyes on this. You'll feel OK and maybe even a bit better (depending on your level of processed food before you start) for a few years before you run out of your body's stores of essential nutrients and feel much worse. Even the poster who says they've been vegan without b12 for years and years is admitting to the exact metal issues low b12 causes. The fact is humans gave up our big guts that could ferment and digest plants for our big brains. We couldn't have both and the availability of meat (scavenged or otherwise) allowed us to prioritise the brain instead of the huge complicated gut. Human health has been far worse since agriculture and domesticated plants arose about 10 thousand years ago.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2019 15:46
|
|
|
my stepdads beer posted:is it, though? what nutrients do you think you're getting from that meal? "What nutrients do you think you're getting out of vegetables?" I don't know how to answer that or your alt-science
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2019 16:54
|
|
|
my stepdads beer posted:is it, though? what nutrients do you think you're getting from that meal? Wholegrains and vegetables, two food groups famously devoid of nutrition.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2019 17:23
|
|
|
If anyone's interested in nutritional breakdowns of loads of foods, Check Your Food is a handy resource. It turns out they've moved to a subscription model but the free trial will give you access to lots of information. Bulgur (30g portion), for example: 106kcal, 23g carbohydrate, 3g protein, 1g fats, 2g fibre Manganese 0.468mg Niacin (B3) 2.19mg Phosphorus 84.6mg Copper 0.138mg Fibre/Fiber 2.01g Magnesium 25.5mg Lutein and zeaxanthin 66µg You can also search by nutrient to find various sources of, for example, B12 and then filter by omni/veggie/vegan: Nori - dried - seaweed Average Portion Size: 5g Amount of Nutrient: 1.38µg = 34% of your RDA/RI Soya cheese Average Portion Size: 40g Amount of Nutrient: 1µg = 25% of your RDA/RI Coconut milk drink - FORTIFIED Average Portion Size: 200g Amount of Nutrient: 0.8µg = 20% of your RDA/RI Soya milk - FORTIFIED Average Portion Size: 200g Amount of Nutrient: 0.76µg = 19% of your RDA/RI
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2019 19:15
|
|
|
Ras Het posted:"What nutrients do you think you're getting out of vegetables?" I don't know how to answer that or your alt-science vegetables are mostly water and cellulose. if you eat enough of them you may get some nutrients but oh no a bunch of those nutrients are in the plant form and far less bioavailable. eating those nutrients along with all those tannins, phytates, lectines etc also interferes with absorbing the small amount you've manage to eat! yay! but what about all that healthy fibre?? the belief that fibre, which you can't digest, is somehow nutritious is a strange one. humans lack the necessary fermentation chambers like our ape cousins or other herbivores to deal with this so it's really only good for doing huge poos. there's a tiny amount of fermentation in the large intestine and colon but it's nothing to write home about and it just makes you fart a lot Geisladisk posted:Wholegrains and vegetables, two food groups famously devoid of nutrition. remember when eggs were famously bad for you? the doctor/author mentioned earlier in the thread, gregor? still believes this lol remember when trans fats were famously good for you? how about margarine?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2019 22:59
|
|
|
my stepdads beer posted:Human health has been far worse since agriculture and domesticated plants arose about 10 thousand years ago those famously healthy humans of 10,000BC
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 00:06
|
|
goku i won't do what u tell me
|
It's almost like someone coming in and saying this is the worst thread magically transformed it into the worst thread with people coming and laying down their ridiculous science-words-with-no-science. What nutrients do you think you're getting from a steak? What nutrients do you think you're getting from an egg? Hey everyone, enumerate your nutrients so a chump can assert that you're wrong, you don't actually absorb a broccoli amino acid or a milk calcium, everything is lies and only the person who asks questions and makes no statements is right about everything! "Even the poster who says they've been vegan without b12 for years and years is admitting to the exact metal issues low b12 causes." How loving stupid is this jackass? I joke about having a bad memory (literally everybody has a bad memory in any kind of absolute sense, I wasn't genuinely suggesting my memory is below average, because it's not) and this fucker comes in and thinks I was admitting to "metal" issues. Good job genius, you must have been getting the RDA of B12 every day all your life to be so amazingly insightful. Thank goodness you came in here to tell us such factual biotruths as "it's not possible to have a complicated gut and a big brain so we gave up the gut". vvvv lol yes we are all overreacting to being challenged, not appropriately reacting to you talking absolute loving nonsense. roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 06:44 on May 25, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 03:18
|
|
|
I know it's unusual to be challenged on veganism these days but that's quite the overreaction. the op needs to know it's a poor diet for health before jumping in head first. if you're doing it for ethical reason that's great but don't pretend it's good for you.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 06:41
|
|
|
lol oh no not TANNINS!!! your local wine and spirit distributor doesn't want you to hear this one simple trick to boosting your nutrients and energy!!!
Squalid fucked around with this message at 07:01 on May 25, 2019 |
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 06:56
|
|
|
Going vegan is a terrible choice for health if you are a hunter-gatherer or subsitence farmer. However, if you're an urban computer toucher it's much better for you that a lazy meat based diet.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 07:44
|
|
|
roomforthetuna posted:It's almost like someone coming in and saying this is the worst thread magically transformed it into the worst thread... Its not hard to read the 6 pages and see youre wrong. ----------------
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 09:26
|
|
|
roomforthetuna posted:vvvv lol yes we are all overreacting to being challenged, not appropriately reacting to you talking absolute loving nonsense. you haven't really engaged with me at all though, just called me a fucker and claimed I'm talking poo poo. axolotl farmer posted:Going vegan is a terrible choice for health if you are a hunter-gatherer or subsitence farmer. depends how lazy. if you eat like your grandparents did and just eat meat with a couple of sides of veggies you'll be in great health. if you eat fast food, cereal and instant meals that's a different story.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 10:02
|
|
|
KRILLIN IN THE NAME posted:those famously healthy humans of 10,000BC read up on how human stature changed, bone density of hunter gathers vs farmers and when cavities and crowded teeth turned up
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 10:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 07:20 |
|
|
Thank you for the nutritional expertise, I just realized all those people posting in this thread were actually dead from not eating any meat.
|
|
#
?
May 25, 2019 10:10
|
|
