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FeastForCows
Oct 18, 2011
Only watched the first episode so far, but holy loving cow was this the worst example of exposition dumping that I have ever witnessed. Characters constantly referring to each other by name and/or relationship several times in a conversation, explaining things that nobody needs to know or that are already obvious ("Ah, Stolas, my familiar" YEAH NO poo poo LADY). Sabrina mentioning all three names of the weird sisters in the woods, the aunts reacting to Sabrina bringing up her parents' accident and going into full detail of what happened like she never heard it before in her life. That last part made me groan IRL.

I plan to continue watching, so I hope this gets better.

SHOW, DON'T TELL.

FeastForCows fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Nov 3, 2018

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Waffles Inc.
Jan 20, 2005

FeastForCows posted:

Only watched the first episode so far, but holy loving cow was this the worst example of exposition dumping that I have ever witnessed. Characters constantly referring to each other by name and/or relationship several times in a conversation, explaining things that nobody needs to know or that are already obvious ("Ah, Stolas, my familiar" YEAH NO poo poo LADY). Sabrina mentioning all three names of the weird sisters in the woods, the aunts reacting to Sabrina bringing up her parents' accident and going into full detail of what happened like she never heard it before in her life. That last part made me groan IRL.

I plan to continue watching, so I hope this gets better.

SHOW, DON'T TELL.

cinema sins-ishly]: calls her friends by their names *ding*

c'mon now OP chill out and watch the show it's good

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
Also I got that last part as Zelda reiterating it for emphasis. "Your parents' death was an accident, so please just stop picking at the wound and move on."

FeastForCows
Oct 18, 2011

Waffles Inc. posted:

cinema sins-ishly]: calls her friends by their names *ding*

c'mon now OP chill out and watch the show it's good

I know TVIV and CD have a hateboner for CinemaSins, but you have to agree that it goes a lot deeper than "calls her friends by their names". I've skipped through the first episode again to find another good example and the first twenty minutes are literally nonstop exposition shoved in your face in the most awkward and stilted way possible. You could stop at any point and the next sentences someone will speak will be about some world building details or background info on characters that nobody needs to know at this point. And that's just slightly hyperbolic. It's like they didn't know that they have a full season to establish these things and crammed everything into the first episode.

I know I'm overreacting, I'm just venting here. But I think these things were handled very poorly, to the point of being laughably bad in some instances.

Final point before I disappear again until I finish the show: How the hell does Sabrina not notice that the teacher lady acts and looks like a different person? Or anyone else, for that matter.

Gaunab
Feb 13, 2012
LUFTHANSA YOU FUCKING DICKWEASEL
Sounds like you just watched the first episode of a show. :shrug:

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

FeastForCows posted:

Final point before I disappear again until I finish the show: How the hell does Sabrina not notice that the teacher lady acts and looks like a different person? Or anyone else, for that matter.

I strongly get the impression that the original Mrs Wardwell was a tragically lonely, shy person who no one paid much attention to.

Waffles Inc.
Jan 20, 2005

FeastForCows posted:

I know TVIV and CD have a hateboner for CinemaSins, but you have to agree that it goes a lot deeper than "calls her friends by their names". I've skipped through the first episode again to find another good example and the first twenty minutes are literally nonstop exposition shoved in your face in the most awkward and stilted way possible. You could stop at any point and the next sentences someone will speak will be about some world building details or background info on characters that nobody needs to know at this point. And that's just slightly hyperbolic. It's like they didn't know that they have a full season to establish these things and crammed everything into the first episode.

I know I'm overreacting, I'm just venting here. But I think these things were handled very poorly, to the point of being laughably bad in some instances.

Final point before I disappear again until I finish the show: How the hell does Sabrina not notice that the teacher lady acts and looks like a different person? Or anyone else, for that matter.

I think it's important to meet a show on its own level. If you're not enjoying the show like, on an emotional level, then why force yourself through it? It can't be enjoyable to watch something that's got you exasperated in an unfun way

Like I'll be real this

FeastForCows posted:

Final point before I disappear again until I finish the show: How the hell does Sabrina not notice that the teacher lady acts and looks like a different person? Or anyone else, for that matter.

is because the tone of the show is pulpy and fun and it would be a less fun show if she weren't a scenary-chewing mustache twirler. There's no "in universe" explanation needed because it simply doesn't matter. Like no one asks "why does everyone break out into song and dance" during a musical

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler
Something that occurred to me, we know why Ambrose doesn't have a familiar until the last episode, but there's never any mention of Zelda's.

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003



ONE YEAR LATER posted:

Something that occurred to me, we know why Ambrose doesn't have a familiar until the last episode, but there's never any mention of Zelda's.

Isn't hers the dog shown during the scene she gives Sabrina the catalog of eligible familiars, or is that dog Hilda's familiar?

Edmund Lava
Sep 8, 2004

Hey, I'm from Brooklyn. I'm going to call myself Mr. Friendly.

Hilda’s familiar was the spiders

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Ooh! Are we messing with Adora?



Zelda mentions her dog familiar when she's talking to Sabrina about hers in the scene with the catalogue.

ONE YEAR LATER
Apr 13, 2004

Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!
Oven Wrangler
Ah, okay I must have missed that line. I thought the pictures were like a familiar catalogue, if Sabrina wanted a specific one she could summon it.

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Ooh! Are we messing with Adora?



Yeah that was the scene. Zelda offhandedly mentioned that her familiar would like another dog.

radlum
May 13, 2013
Overall, I really enjoyed the show. I liked the finale and how it sets up the next season, though the framing device of Madame Satan narrating the plot to the Principal was pretty lame. For a minute I thought she was talking to Sabrina's father or maybe some future threat, that would have given it a purpose; but since it is narrating to a soon to be dead very minor character, it felt too much like jus exposition.

Also, what's the deal with Gaeta? He got Thriller eyes after the kiss, is he a werewolf?

I spent all season thinking Nick was actually Satan, but turns out he is just a not so bad dude who likes Sabrina, that was weird

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
Thought this was amusing: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...e-a8611441.html

The Satanic Temple in Salem is claiming that this show ripped off it's statue of Baphomet for it's depiction of Satan (specifically the statue in the academy, they aren't claiming copyright of the devil, but of that specific statue).

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
I knew that statue looked familiar.

CAN you copyright what you claim to be a religious icon, though?

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

radlum posted:

I spent all season thinking Nick was actually Satan, but turns out he is just a not so bad dude who likes Sabrina, that was weird

I dunno man. He showed up and stopped the weird sisters from doing anything about Tommy, and it seemed to me like he knew that there was a prophecy to fulfill. I wouldn't be surprised if he turned to indeed by spying on her.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
I feel it would be more interesting if (Nick)he were more neutral - he genuinely likes Sabrina and wants her to succeed, but at the same time he pledged his soul in the book so has to follow the Dark lords plan to groom Sabrina for apocalypse stuff. Currently playing both sides but eventually having to choose one.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Thing is... it all kinds comes together if Nick Scratch really is the Dark Lord in human guise, since Wardwell said that Sabrina is being groomed to be the Dark Lord's bride, a position Wardwell wants for herself and prefers Sabrina to be a footsoldier. There's a whole bunch of plotters with various levels of information working at cross-purposes and a bunch of people with their petty whims and schemes running into each other.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
Also, it seems like the Academy is locked down pretty hard; the Weird Sisters don't seem able to leave unless summoned or sent on a task, but Nick just goes wherever he wants.

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines
(Nick) Sabrina didn't seem surprised to see him after she spoke with Harvey so I assumed she was the one who asked him to be there to stop the sisters.

EmptyVessel
Oct 30, 2012

Argue posted:

(Nick) Sabrina didn't seem surprised to see him after she spoke with Harvey so I assumed she was the one who asked him to be there to stop the sisters.

iirc Nick tells Harvey that Sabrina sent him when he arrives.

BioEnchanted posted:

Thought this was amusing: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...e-a8611441.html

The Satanic Temple in Salem is claiming that this show ripped off it's statue of Baphomet for it's depiction of Satan (specifically the statue in the academy, they aren't claiming copyright of the devil, but of that specific statue).

Hilarious. "Netflix stole our statue design that we stole from Eliphas Levi." So far Satanist moms are more upset about the show than the Christian ones.

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008

EmptyVessel posted:

iirc Nick tells Harvey that Sabrina sent him when he arrives..

Doesn't mean she actually did, though. :tinfoil:

Argue
Sep 29, 2005

I represent the Philippines

EmptyVessel posted:

iirc Nick tells Harvey that Sabrina sent him when he arrives.

I meant the night he killed Tommy. Sabrina walked out of Harvey's house and speaks with Nick, who's got the Weird Sisters bound. So he wasn't spying on her, she must have asked him to be there.

Biplane
Jul 18, 2005

I watched all ten episodes from friday to saturday and absolutely loved it. Guess I'll just spoiler the rest of this post just in case

I adored all the camera tricks to make things seem otherworldly and hosed up, like the edge of the screen blur when hosed up magic is afoot, or how the Spellman house just seems sorta off in it angles etc.

And going all in on the satanism was cool and fun, but I did tihnk it was weird that Satan the devil is real and just an incredibly hosed up dude, everyone is scared to death of him and hes all about the torture and hellfire, and witches are still like "welp better sign away my soul in this incredibly hosed up book". Sabrina is the only one whos like "hey maybe becoming the devils subject isnt good and cool???"


OVerall I give this show a 9 out of 10 and will probalby watch it again soon. Can't wait for season 2

Sandwich Anarchist
Sep 12, 2008
They try to paint Satan, and by extension his followers, as less evil and more amoral, and there are implications that devout witches are spared eternal torture when they finally die.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Biplane posted:

I watched all ten episodes from friday to saturday and absolutely loved it. Guess I'll just spoiler the rest of this post just in case

I adored all the camera tricks to make things seem otherworldly and hosed up, like the edge of the screen blur when hosed up magic is afoot, or how the Spellman house just seems sorta off in it angles etc.

And going all in on the satanism was cool and fun, but I did tihnk it was weird that Satan the devil is real and just an incredibly hosed up dude, everyone is scared to death of him and hes all about the torture and hellfire, and witches are still like "welp better sign away my soul in this incredibly hosed up book". Sabrina is the only one whos like "hey maybe becoming the devils subject isnt good and cool???"


OVerall I give this show a 9 out of 10 and will probalby watch it again soon. Can't wait for season 2

To be fair, on that last point getting into heaven generally requires a lot of effort meaning most mortals and witches are hellbound anyway. So why not get a stay of execution for a few hundred years plus bonus superpowers? Maybe he'll go easy on them after their deaths. (I mean he won't but I can see why they'd take their chances)

Biplane
Jul 18, 2005

Sandwich Anarchist posted:

They try to paint Satan, and by extension his followers, as less evil and more amoral, and there are implications that devout witches are spared eternal torture when they finally die.

Blackwood outright says thats the case but I mean, come on. what possible incentive does the devil have to tell the truth?
and the aunts are scared to death when they think sabrina is going to send them to hell for not getting her to sign the book. Even madam Satan is scared of the devil punishing her. Altough shes a demon so maybe its different for her

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

BioEnchanted posted:

Thought this was amusing: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...e-a8611441.html

The Satanic Temple in Salem is claiming that this show ripped off it's statue of Baphomet for it's depiction of Satan (specifically the statue in the academy, they aren't claiming copyright of the devil, but of that specific statue).

They sorta did rip off the statue design, but I couldn't help but laugh at this

quote:

He also claims that the show paints Baphomet in an "evil" light and that this could cause viewers to become fearful of the Satanic Temple.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Biplane posted:

Blackwood outright says thats the case but I mean, come on. what possible incentive does the devil have to tell the truth?
and the aunts are scared to death when they think sabrina is going to send them to hell for not getting her to sign the book. Even madam Satan is scared of the devil punishing her. Altough shes a demon so maybe its different for her


Well maybe they just know that the devil is a lil' man-kid who can't even handle onions, let alone rebellion, without having a fit and threatening punishment. That was a hilarious part of Zelda's dream, the devil being such a picky eater. What, onions too spicy for the lord of hellfire? He has the palette of a white american southerner. The whole "obligate carnivore" thing has always seemed more childish than anything, given he's supposed to be very powerful yet can't handle veggies or dairy without getting the farts. The show will end with him getting recommended a therapist who'll help him unpack his toxic masculinity.

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010

Skwirl posted:

They sorta did rip off the statue design, but I couldn't help but laugh at this

So Satans deliberately evoke images of "evil" in order to protest religion, and then get salty when people associate those images with evil things?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you're worried people will call you evil, don't call yourself Satanists!

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Strom Cuzewon posted:

So Satans deliberately evoke images of "evil" in order to protest religion, and then get salty when people associate those images with evil things?

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you're worried people will call you evil, don't call yourself Satanists!

The irony is there are probably more Satanists getting into heaven than christians because their world view is more "Do what you want as long as it ain't hurting anyone" while a lot of Christians tend to be pearl clutching assholes.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

BioEnchanted posted:

Well maybe they just know that the devil is a lil' man-kid who can't even handle onions, let alone rebellion, without having a fit and threatening punishment. That was a hilarious part of Zelda's dream, the devil being such a picky eater. What, onions too spicy for the lord of hellfire? He has the palette of a white american southerner. The whole "obligate carnivore" thing has always seemed more childish than anything, given he's supposed to be very powerful yet can't handle veggies or dairy without getting the farts. The show will end with him getting recommended a therapist who'll help him unpack his toxic masculinity.

The thing about onions is iirc actually a very old superstition or something that the Devil can't abide onions, some relation to how vampires are meant to be weakened by garlic. There's a shitload of bits of obscure lore casually mentioned in the show, at least if you've read a lot of Discworld. It all seems so fitting, too.

The Dark Church is just running on so many levels of irony I can't help but love it.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
I'd love if it turned out that Blackwood isn't as cruel as Zelda thinks, like he finds out she kidnapped his daughter, asks why and when told she feared he'd kill her for being born first his response was just "Is that really how little you think of me :( ?" genuinely hurt.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.
I still don't get why Zelda didn't just lie and say the boy was the first born, like Blackwood is a dick but if his daughter is not a threat to his weird patriarchy thing he will absolutely protect her with every fiber of his being as a point of pride.

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003



I loved the scene where Hilda just noped out when Zelda told her about kidnapping Blackwood's daughter.

Edgar Allen Ho
Apr 3, 2017

by sebmojo
Put this on as haoweenish background noise the other night while we were waiting on a pizza and holy poo poo, we ended up sitting enthralled and bingeing half the season. Finished up last night. This show is way better and more fun than it should be, and I know nothing about Sabrina except I remember it being on in the 90s and the snarky talking cat.

I also had no idea Sabrina was from the same universe as Archie. It also makes me want to try Riverdale which I had totally written off.

Air Skwirl
May 13, 2007

Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Put this on as haoweenish background noise the other night while we were waiting on a pizza and holy poo poo, we ended up sitting enthralled and bingeing half the season. Finished up last night. This show is way better and more fun than it should be, and I know nothing about Sabrina except I remember it being on in the 90s and the snarky talking cat.

I also had no idea Sabrina was from the same universe as Archie. It also makes me want to try Riverdale which I had totally written off.

Riverdale is basically if David Lynch wrote and directed 90210. So you should absolutely watch it. season three has Archie joining a prison fight club and the next episode is the main characters playing their parents in a breakfast club knock off (nothing I said was a lie).

Waffles Inc.
Jan 20, 2005

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Put this on as haoweenish background noise the other night while we were waiting on a pizza and holy poo poo, we ended up sitting enthralled and bingeing half the season. Finished up last night. This show is way better and more fun than it should be, and I know nothing about Sabrina except I remember it being on in the 90s and the snarky talking cat.

I also had no idea Sabrina was from the same universe as Archie. It also makes me want to try Riverdale which I had totally written off.

Riverdale is absolutely pitch perfect. It's endearingly earnest and leans in and commits 100% to the absurdity and melodrama in the best ways. It's so good

I can't imagine liking Sabrina and not liking Riverdale, so you're probably good to go

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Queen Combat
Dec 29, 2017

Lipstick Apathy
Counterpoint Sabrina is great and Riverdale is complete trash.

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