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Space Cadet Omoly
Jan 15, 2014

Hic puer est




It's worth noting that in route B things only start getting really bad because Susie takes Ralsei away so he can't keep an eye on the player who soon gets right back on their genocidal bullshit.

kind of hypocritical to accuse Ralsei of being suspicious when the player is the only one doing bad stuff so far

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SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013



I feel like Ralsei has an agenda he's not telling us but also he seems genunine about being a very sweet guy that loves his friends and is good at hugs.

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010




Weird, it worked for me

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
TERRORIST


Space Cadet Omoly posted:

It's worth noting that in route B things only start getting really bad because Susie takes Ralsei away so he can't keep an eye on the player who soon gets right back on their genocidal bullshit.

kind of hypocritical to accuse Ralsei of being suspicious when the player is the only one doing bad stuff so far

No need to be suspicious about the provably evil, duh.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002



whoa

DanielCross
Aug 15, 2013


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDkAr_fmEts

Love FalKKonE's stuff.

PringleCreamEgg
Jul 2, 2004

Sleep, rest, do your best.

Okay I finally got caught up with this thread after beating this a few days ago. What a great game.

General spoiler theory stuff: Chapter 2 was stated to be the longest, but I think that will be due to the other chapters having way more differences if you did side B stuff. Smaller chapters with more variability. I also think Toby has changed his mind about only one ending, heís states many times he often changes his mind at the last minute. Even if it isnít a Side B / Weird Route ending and Friendly ending kind of thing, Iím at least expecting something like the roaring happened and we defeated a final boss and there is a variable epilogue.

Regarding Kris: Catty talking about doing dark rituals, Krisís search history, and their save file already existing means at least something is up with Kris. Their reaction after fighting a [little sponge] who became a [BIG SHOT] only to be more aware they were just being controlled makes me think Kris did some wild poo poo to get some kind of power, but that made the player a thing. Kris doesnít like this. It is also possible that there is yet another entity that is not Kris that is doing the weird zombie Kris things, there isnít any evidence for that however. A theme so far has been people doing bad things because theyíre misguided, so Iím doubtful Kris is just evil. They certainly donít like being saddled with the player though and I think they will be the final boss.

Ralsei: Did nothing wrong. Please stop thinking my special fuzzy friend is anything but genuine.

Susie: Is absolutely the main hero of our group.

super sweet best pal
Nov 18, 2009



Thinking about what Catty's dad says if you talk to him at the end of Chapter 1. Specifically, the line about how Asriel is going to go on to be a big shot after graduating college. Didn't notice it at the time but after Chapter 2 it really stands out.

Brandfarlig
Nov 5, 2009

These colours don't run.



Susie

Bro Just Let Me Karate Chop You And You Can Have As Many Skateboards As You Want

Asterite34
May 19, 2009




Calling it now, Ralsei's "aww gee shucks aren't I adorable" schtick isn't for Kris' benefit, who seems utterly indifferent to it. It's for the Player's benefit, especially Undertale fans. Ralsei seems aware of some entity controlling Kris' actions and acts bottomlessly obsequious and kinda artificially adorable whenever it's watching the proceedings from above, while secretly communicating with Kris during times he thinks the camera is on something else.

He's not an enemy in-universe, he seems to have the main characters' interests in mind, but I think he's plotting behind OUR back.

I think someone upthread was right when they said he was this game's equivalent to Sans, a sort of metatextual warden keeping tabs on our behavior and trying to keep us in check. And not without reason, given Side B nonsense happens when he's not around to mollify the Player's more sadistic impulses with his saccharine indefatigable cuteness.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007




This gag went right by me on my first playthrough.

https://twitter.com/sugaryscorpion/status/1441270558843293701?s=20

Scrap Dragon
Oct 6, 2013

SECRET TECHNIQUE:
DARK SHADOW
BLACK FALLEN ANGEL!




I didnít catch that until I went back to see if their dialogue changed and realized they werenít there

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky


Asterite34 posted:

Calling it now, Ralsei's "aww gee shucks aren't I adorable" schtick isn't for Kris' benefit, who seems utterly indifferent to it. It's for the Player's benefit, especially Undertale fans. Ralsei seems aware of some entity controlling Kris' actions and acts bottomlessly obsequious and kinda artificially adorable whenever it's watching the proceedings from above, while secretly communicating with Kris during times he thinks the camera is on something else.

He's not an enemy in-universe, he seems to have the main characters' interests in mind, but I think he's plotting behind OUR back.

I think someone upthread was right when they said he was this game's equivalent to Sans, a sort of metatextual warden keeping tabs on our behavior and trying to keep us in check. And not without reason, given Side B nonsense happens when he's not around to mollify the Player's more sadistic impulses with his saccharine indefatigable cuteness.

the hints that Kris was in the dark world before the start of the game also make me think they and Ralsei are in cahoots on something, especially against the player/soul

i definitely get the impression that Ralsei has Kris's best interests in mind, stuff like Kris's save file, the conversations when you control other characters and him trying to calm them down after the Spamton fight really give me the impression that this is a big plan to help Kris out somehow

Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Sep 25, 2021

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






I am finally loving done, I beat the game on pacifist, god drat!

Sorry, just annoyed at having to wait a week to finally play it and constantly getting spoilers recommended to me on youtube.

So, I did the pacifist because I'm sure I'd have less problems not seeing new characters like you with Undertale's genocide route and also the recruit system. So what would people recommend for the next one, neutral? I can't say I hate any of the characters enough to wanna be doing a genocide run anyway. And two thoughts, I think Undyne might be the knight, and does keeping the hot chocolate and taking it into the dark world do anything?

Also what the hell is the Mannequin for? I never figured that out.

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016



RareAcumen posted:

Also what the hell is the Mannequin for? I never figured that out.

It reduces damage from certain types of bullets (including but not limited to Bonus Boss related ones) and shows up at Ralsei's dark world once you beat the chapter

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007




RareAcumen posted:

I am finally loving done, I beat the game on pacifist, god drat!

Sorry, just annoyed at having to wait a week to finally play it and constantly getting spoilers recommended to me on youtube.

So, I did the pacifist because I'm sure I'd have less problems not seeing new characters like you with Undertale's genocide route and also the recruit system. So what would people recommend for the next one, neutral? I can't say I hate any of the characters enough to wanna be doing a genocide run anyway. And two thoughts, I think Undyne might be the knight, and does keeping the hot chocolate and taking it into the dark world do anything?

Also what the hell is the Mannequin for? I never figured that out.

Did you fight the secret boss?

Neutral doesn't really offer much differences. Just less recruits for Castle Town. And Berdly gets his arm messed up.

Mannequin shows up in Castle Town if you bought it.

Why do you think Undyne is the Knight?

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

I'm just really loving fascinated by the whole deal of steering Kris via the Red Soul. Because Kris has apparently been jamming it into a birdcage for a while. Like the player's influence upsets them, especially when we make them act out of character, but they shove the soul back in again by the time morning rolls around. So is being controlled by someone else a new thing for them, or are they usually being controlled by another entity and this is just the first time it's us???

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

Rise and shine, master leprechaun.





The SOULs flowey absorbed ultimately controlled him as well. Probably not too much to read into that.

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

Those were other people's souls though. Presumably this is Kris' own.

Ms. Unsmiley
Feb 13, 2012



YggiDee posted:

I'm just really loving fascinated by the whole deal of steering Kris via the Red Soul. Because Kris has apparently been jamming it into a birdcage for a while. Like the player's influence upsets them, especially when we make them act out of character, but they shove the soul back in again by the time morning rolls around. So is being controlled by someone else a new thing for them, or are they usually being controlled by another entity and this is just the first time it's us???

i feel pretty sure that kris literally can't survive without a soul, which is why they turn all weird and zombie like when they remove it and why they always put it back after theyve done what they needed to, even though they clearly don't want it. cant say for certain obviously but that just seems logical enough to me. and yeah the fact that we only just got control but they clearly have a history of removing their soul before we took over has some interesting implications behind it that i wanna know about

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
TERRORIST


I thought someone said if you beat Jevil both ways you could get both of his items via the hole in the castle town? I just went and did it and nothing.

I don't know how likely it'd be, but it'd be cool if Toby added a boss rush or something because Jevil and Spamton are fun but a pain to get to. Maybe as a dojo thing.

ikanreed
Sep 25, 2009

Rise and shine, master leprechaun.





YggiDee posted:

Those were other people's souls though. Presumably this is Kris' own.

That is one hell of a load bearing "presumably" given his own interaction with it, our ability to control it when it's outside his body, its ability to talk to Noelle when Kris is down, and that it selects all characters actions in combat, not just Kris

It's in him, but I'm not entirely sure it's his.

DanielCross
Aug 15, 2013


Personally, I'm just looking forward to putting in the work required to maintain my Bed Inspector role. I take the job very seriously

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

ikanreed posted:

That is one hell of a load bearing "presumably" given his own interaction with it, our ability to control it when it's outside his body, its ability to talk to Noelle when Kris is down, and that it selects all characters actions in combat, not just Kris

It's in him, but I'm not entirely sure it's his.

"Kris has their own soul" makes more sense to me than "Kris somehow lost their own factory default soul and then obtained one from another human we haven't seen"

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011



YggiDee posted:

I'm just really loving fascinated by the whole deal of steering Kris via the Red Soul. Because Kris has apparently been jamming it into a birdcage for a while. Like the player's influence upsets them, especially when we make them act out of character, but they shove the soul back in again by the time morning rolls around. So is being controlled by someone else a new thing for them, or are they usually being controlled by another entity and this is just the first time it's us???

Also the souls been around a lot longer than we the player have been if the old birdcage is to be believed so I don't think We The Player are what's got Kris all sad brained, at least in the normal plotline. If anything the opening where we make our selves and then a second narrator cuts in and forces us into Kris's perspective means we're forced into this weird situation as well. I just wanna get back to myself, Kris. But something happened and we're stuck together.

YggiDee posted:

"Kris has their own soul" makes more sense to me than "Kris somehow lost their own factory default soul and then obtained one from another human we haven't seen"

The opening of DR makes this seem more like a third party put a new one in Kris for Some Reasons.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007


YggiDee posted:

"Kris has their own soul" makes more sense to me than "Kris somehow lost their own factory default soul and then obtained one from another human we haven't seen"

kris may or may not have emerged from an impenetrable bunker at the edge of town and spent their early childhood living feral in alleyways before the dreemurrs took them in. we don't know what wacky nonsense they got up to

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

YggiDee posted:

"Kris has their own soul" makes more sense to me than "Kris somehow lost their own factory default soul and then obtained one from another human we haven't seen"

hey they're into the occult who knows

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

All fair points! I'm still Very Intrigued.

Current theory: Kris previously summoned a demon and the Demon is usually the person steering them. Kris is a little annoyed at us because the Demon is good at the piano and we're poo poo.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





YggiDee posted:


the Demon is good at the piano and we're poo poo.

speak for yourself

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Asterite34 posted:

Calling it now, Ralsei's "aww gee shucks aren't I adorable" schtick isn't for Kris' benefit, who seems utterly indifferent to it. It's for the Player's benefit, especially Undertale fans. Ralsei seems aware of some entity controlling Kris' actions and acts bottomlessly obsequious and kinda artificially adorable whenever it's watching the proceedings from above, while secretly communicating with Kris during times he thinks the camera is on something else.

He's not an enemy in-universe, he seems to have the main characters' interests in mind, but I think he's plotting behind OUR back.

I think someone upthread was right when they said he was this game's equivalent to Sans, a sort of metatextual warden keeping tabs on our behavior and trying to keep us in check. And not without reason, given Side B nonsense happens when he's not around to mollify the Player's more sadistic impulses with his saccharine indefatigable cuteness.


I don't blame Ralsei for distrusting the Player Heart. We are obviously some kind of Darkner sick hack, given how other Lightners can tell when we're making Kris say something they don't believe in but no Darkner has ever called us out on our poo poo. He's obviously not telling us everything he knows.

The problem is that he may be hiding that information from the wrong person. For the first time, he talked about the Roaring happening when there's too much dark, and now Flesh Kris deliberately cracks a door to let the darkness out of the next Dark Room he creates.

...I mean, that's one way to read it. We have no idea about the actual conditions for creating a Dark Room; maybe there has to be a way it can be entered, and our front door locks from the inside so it has to be left open and the dark stops at the threshhold.

YggiDee
Sep 12, 2007




Fallen Rib

Tunicate posted:

speak for yourself

Nobody good at piano is playing Deltarune. Like, being able to make music is so loving cool. Why would I play video games if I could sit in front of an instrument and make music come out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j38qu753B84
That's the coolest poo poo! I'd be doing that forever!

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Oxyclean posted:

Did you fight the secret boss?

Neutral doesn't really offer much differences. Just less recruits for Castle Town. And Berdly gets his arm messed up.

Mannequin shows up in Castle Town if you bought it.

Why do you think Undyne is the Knight?

Kris constantly being weird and taking their heart out every adventure seems like it's gonna be a thing so I dunno. I think if anyone's gonna wander in and no get what's happening that isn't Susie, I think it'd be her. Plus we already know how she was in Undertale, so it'd track as a alternate version.

I'm just spitballing, I'm 40+ pages behind because I wanted to wait till I'd actually beaten the game myself.

And no, I didn't fight the superboss, didn't even attempt it.

Blaziken386
Jun 26, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd


https://twitter.com/mushyart/status/1441118696571736068
i've found what is perhaps the greatest deltarune post of all time

NewMars
Mar 10, 2013


Calling back to the character creation, I can't help but feel that our vessel would have been much more, even perfectly aligned with our responses that we've been making.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011


Asterite34 posted:

Calling it now, Ralsei's "aww gee shucks aren't I adorable" schtick isn't for Kris' benefit, who seems utterly indifferent to it. It's for the Player's benefit, especially Undertale fans. Ralsei seems aware of some entity controlling Kris' actions and acts bottomlessly obsequious and kinda artificially adorable whenever it's watching the proceedings from above, while secretly communicating with Kris during times he thinks the camera is on something else.

He's not an enemy in-universe, he seems to have the main characters' interests in mind, but I think he's plotting behind OUR back.

I think someone upthread was right when they said he was this game's equivalent to Sans, a sort of metatextual warden keeping tabs on our behavior and trying to keep us in check. And not without reason, given Side B nonsense happens when he's not around to mollify the Player's more sadistic impulses with his saccharine indefatigable cuteness.

Comic because it's just a handy interpretation of the scene as exists in-game.

It's a little interesting to consider the wording because assuming Ralsei knows of the player "You" may not specifically refer to Kris at all times.
(Source)

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Blaziken386 posted:

https://twitter.com/mushyart/status/1441118696571736068
i've found what is perhaps the greatest deltarune post of all time

This got to me.

BisbyWorl
Jan 12, 2019

Knowledge is pain plus observation.




One thing that gets me curious about Kris' SOUL is that in Undertale, every time Frisk's SOUL changed color it was due to a monster.

Kris' SOUL changed to yellow without help for the fight against Spamton.

Swilo
Jun 2, 2004
ANIME SUCKS HARD
:dukedog:


Blaziken386 posted:

https://twitter.com/mushyart/status/1441118696571736068
i've found what is perhaps the greatest deltarune post of all time

why car from cars and not car from deltarune :confused:

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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Blaziken386 posted:

https://twitter.com/mushyart/status/1441118696571736068
i've found what is perhaps the greatest deltarune post of all time

https://twitter.com/Newtybot/status/1441183587265515527

Someone did a version with some audio tweaks

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