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TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

The Last Seduction (1994), dir. John Dahl


Linda Fiorentino is basically a psychopath who grabs a ton of stolen money from her husband Bill Pullman and absconds from New York City, ending up in a small town near Buffalo, where she meets Peter Berg. Complications ensue.


Can't say I liked this very much. Fiorentino is what you get when you take a man in the 90s and ask him to write a femme fatale with no character except "smart and bad." She loves big cocks - it's one of three personality traits she has apart from "smart psychopath," the other two being "she likes New York City" and "she likes writing backwards" - which does not seem like it needed to be in the movie. The film started life as a porno and I guess the love for mammoth dongs is a remnant of that. The movie also doesn't need the various gay panic quips (someone nearly says "no homo" verbatim) or the useless and inexplicable transphobia dropped in near the end for gently caress knows what reason, but hey, it's the 90s. Pullman at least has the pulse of the film and turns in a fun supporting performance with energy and humor, and the central scheme of the movie is not unenjoyable to watch, so it's not a waste of time entirely. But overall I do not dig it.


This movie and I like different things about noir, I guess. I like flawed but compelling characters pushed to their breaking point, the shades of moray gray and psychological drama that their desperation breeds, the moodiness and resignation that comes with the circumstances people force themselves or get forced into, the tension of a mystery unraveling or a plan falling apart, and the melodrama of it all. This movie likes the scheming, the seduction, the large sums of money that people have got their eyes on, and above all the notion of a femme fatale (in very broad strokes). There's no real darkness here - the soundtrack, for instance, is upbeat and bouncy - and the end result is basically a parody except without a lot of the humor, except for Pullman. This is on a lot of "best neo-noirs" of all time lists and I can't agree! I think people are basically losing their minds over a movie that dares to have a bad woman, but bad women existed in the original 40s noirs, folks. There's nothing new here!

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TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
What we really need is a movie based on this paragraph from this private investigator's Wikipedia page:

quote:

Pellicano had been in a relationship with actress Linda Fiorentino, prior to going to prison when convicted of the crimes he was charged with in 2002. In 2006, when he was charged with new crimes just prior to his release from prison, Fiorentino started dating Federal Bureau of Investigation special agent Mark T. Rossini. She told Rossini that she was doing research for a screenplay based on Pellicano's case, and Rossini helped her out by illegally accessing FBI computers to get her information on the case. In reality, Fiorentino wanted to assist Pellicano, and handed the files over to Pellicano's lawyers. Rossini, in addition to resigning from the FBI after 17 years as a special agent, pled guilty in 2009 and received a sentence of 12 months probation and a $5,000 fine.
That sounds like a noir involving Fiorentino that I'd enjoy!

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
Now that we're in the #MeToo era, there's a lot of room to speculate on the claims, but I remember learning that Fiorentino's career never really continued past the 90's because she's an absolute monster to work with. Kevin Smith, Barry Sonnenfield and Tommy Lee Jones all said they'd never work with her again, and she never worked with the same director or actor more than once.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Suture (1993), dir. Scott McGehee and David Siegel


Dennis Haysbert and Michael Harris are brothers in Phoenix, Arizona who look quite a lot alike (although they are played by two very different looking actors, one a black man and the other a white man, which is intriguing). One is rich and the other is not. Perhaps they have different mothers - it's never clear. The movie opens with them seemingly about to shoot each other and then flashes back so we can see how this all happened.


This movie is a fascinating meditation on identity. If you like movies like Persona, Seconds, or The Face of Another it will be right up your alley. It generally looks good rather than great, although there are some striking shots, the black and white is done very well, and it has a neat 60s inspired set which is pretty interesting. It has fantastic tension in the climax and some dogs sometimes although they play no important role in the movie.


I think the movie is stupendous. If I had to criticize something it would be the plot; we know what's happening for most of the movie, but most of the characters don't, which might frustrate some people or rob the movie of any mystery or tension. It didn't really bother me but I could imagine people having a problem with it. Besides that I think everything is excellent. I'd recommend it except it's pretty weird so I doubt it'll be for everyone.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Lone Star (1996), dir. John Sayles


Chris Cooper is sheriff in a border town in Texas where the skeletal remains of what seems like perhaps an old sheriff (Kris Kristofferson) are discovered, which leads to questions about what happened between that sheriff and the one right after him, Matthew McConaughey, who also happens to be Cooper's father. Flashbacks and investigation ensue. Joe Morton (in charge of the local army base) ends up drawn in, along with Elizabeth Peña (teacher at a local school), Míriam Colón (her mom, who runs a Mexican restaurant), Clifton James (mayor), Frances McDormand (Cooper's ex-wife), and more people besides.


This is a neo-noir of vast and magisterial scope, stretching across various timelines and going right to the bone on the themes of race and also immigration, with enough time to touch on Native Americans and some other stuff too, not to mention how all these things intersect. Everything is handled with appropriate gravitas and explored in detail and nuance, and the flashback structure gives the film an interesting tone, since the present day stuff is all rather languid and exploratory rather than the typical tension and suspense we find in noir.


It's not ugly, but it could stand to be prettier, and there's one bit of plot complication near the end that I'm not sure really adds a lot. But overall this is really good (as long as you like the laid back pacing) and I recommend it. I do not adore the font on the title card though.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
Definitely checking out Suture!

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
Lone Star was great.

My favorite line, "I'm going over to the other side." "Republicans?" "No, Mexico."

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

MightyJoe36 posted:

My favorite line, "I'm going over to the other side." "Republicans?" "No, Mexico."
Ahahah yes, that was my favorite line too.


La mala educación/Bad Education (2004), dir. Pedro Almodóvar


Gael García Bernal, aspiring actor, walks into the office of Fele Martínez (film director), reminds Fele of how they were students together many years ago, and asks for a film role. He also gives Fele a script based on their time at school and what happened afterwards. Fele starts reading the script and the movie flashes back to that time, but also it's not a flashback because Fele starts making the movie and so we're seeing what will eventually be that movie... it's complicated. Also, noir things ensue, including ones involving some other characters, etc.


I'm watching all of the Almodóvar films I haven't seen and I didn't know anything about this one going in, so I hadn't planned for it to end up in this thread. But by the time some of the protagonists visit a noir film festival featuring one of the noirs I covered back before I moved on to neo-noirs I had decided to include this film since, as I said above, everything is very noiry.


Bernal turns in a great performance, as does pretty much everyone else. (Javier Cámara Rodríguez, who has a larger part in Hable con ella, is pretty funny in a small role.) The film has lots of classic Almodóvar stuff: explorations of gayness and trans stuff, sexual misconduct (this time the fault of the Catholic church), humor, and interrogation of the nature of cinema and storytelling and their relation to real life. It's not drop dead gorgeous like some of his other stuff but it looks fine and it's extremely entertaining and gripping the whole way through. Good stuff.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Cold Weather (2010), dir. Aaron Katz


Cris Lankenau has just moved in with his sister Trieste Kelly Dunn in Portland. He's dropped out of college, where he was studying forensic science, and he gets a job in an ice factory, where he meets Raúl Castillo. Also, his ex, Robyn Rikoon, is in town for some job training from a Chicago law firm she works at. Noir things ensue, although they take quite a while.


This is a really fun one. It has a lot of comedic touches that work really well. You won't bust a gut but it's pretty funny at times. It's a mumblecore noir and all the actors handle that very well, by which I mean they sound tremendously natural saying this naturalistic stuff. You'd almost believe it was a documentary, except of course things are somewhat heightened because it's a noir. Despite having a rather laid back atmosphere the tension gets pretty insane at the climax, which is quite impressive.


Lankenau does that pencil trick with a pad of paper (perhaps most famous from The Big Lebowski) so that's fun. A couple of the characters sort of drop out of the plot partway through the movie, which I think will rub some people the wrong way, and the movie is so spare and slow to spin up, and it has such low stakes, that some people might also get a little turned off. I loved it though! Fun little neo-noir.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Gemini (2017), dir. Aaron Katz


Our second neo-noir in a row by Katz stars Lola Kirke as a personal assistant managing the whims of Zoë Kravitz, movie star. Lola and Zoë get caught up in a murder case being investigated by John Cho. Many pretty LA night shots ensue, among other things. This one is not a mumblecore noir - it's a more traditional movie.


This has a great soundtrack, and it's often pretty. I like the lead and it has some fun supporting characters, plus for reasons I'm not sure I can even begin to understand I like movies about movie star personal assistants? (I think my favorite is Clouds of Sils Maria.) So I like this one a lot. The protagonist lives in an apartment that's sort of like a miniature Bradbury Building (a mainstay of LA films, including some of the best noirs and neo-noirs, like Double Indemnity and Blade Runner) so that's fun.


It's not perfect. The denouement is pretty toothless and pointless and broadly the movie is basically 90% style and 10% substance. I think in most people's minds it'll probably just count as mediocre. But I like what I like! Also can someone please tell me what movie is playing in this scene? I think that's William Holden in the first picture but for whatever reason the movie isn't springing to mind. I'm no good with faces so that might not even be Holden.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

白日焰火 (Daylight Fireworks)/Black Coal, Thin Ice (2014), dir. Diao Yinan


Liao Fan is a detective investigating body parts that have shown up hidden in shipments of coal all around China in 1999. Progress is not great and we flash forward to 2004, when he's drunk and now working as a security guard. Basically by accident he gets drawn into a police investigation involving Gwei Lun-mei, a woman who was also involved in his earlier investigation.


This is pretty good. The plot is fun and Fan does a good job playing a character who is kind of a shithead but in ways that let you forget about it for a while until it surfaces again and you say "oh, right, this is who he is." Lots of the side characters are played very well and the movie often looks very nice. The 1999 prologue is set in the summer and the rest of the movie is in the cold as gently caress winter and you can really feel the chill.


What sticks out most in my mind is a scene from the prologue which is extremely effective due to how matter of factly it's staged, and an interrogation scene with the owner of a club who does a fantastic job with her one scene. I said the plot was fun but it's also sort of predictable, and the ending is interesting but it doesn't really work for me. Aside from those niggles, though, it's pretty great!

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

아가씨 (Lady)/The Handmaiden (2016), dir. Park Chan-wook


Kim Tae-ri is the newly hired handmaiden for Kim Min-hee, a rich heiress cooped up in a mansion she's never left in Korea in the 1930s, during Japan's colonial rule. Min-hee is basically a prisoner of her creepy widowed uncle, Cho Jin-woong, who wants to marry her for her money. Ha Jung-woo arrives to woo Min-hee and shake things up. Many things ensue.


This is fine. It has a compelling story and really wonderful acting by the three main leads. It's stylishly shot, has a few rare little blips of humor which work pretty well, and Kim Tae-ri is a real cutie patootie. I watched the extended edition, which adds some stuff and fiddles a bit with a few scenes (including lots of extensions of otherwise short scenes) and I gather there's not a ton of difference. The movie is long either way but it never drags.


The whole thing is pretty male gazey, and despite having plenty of twists and turns it doesn't ever really manage to be surprising. The ending is fine in some ways and not super interesting in others - I think being sort of predictable causes the whole thing to lose a bit of steam. I'm honestly not really sure I'd class this as a neo-noir at all, but I've seen it on some lists, so whatever. The only other Park Chan-Wook films I've seen are the Vengeance trilogy; I liked the first two a lot and the third is merely fine. I'd say this movie is between my two favorite Vengeance trilogy movies and my one least favorite.

VoodooXT
Feb 24, 2006
I want Tong Po! Give me Tong Po!
Edit: oops, wrong movie

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
It's neo-noir rewatch time for the noir thread, baby! I now commence a series of rewatches of neo-noir films for one reason or another.


Jackie Brown (1997), dir. Quentin Tarantino


Pam Grier plays the titular Jackie Brown, a stewardess busted smuggling cash into LAX by ATF agent Michael Keaton. She was smuggling for Samuel L. Jackson, an arms dealer hanging out with his friend who just got out of prison, Robert De Niro, and Bridget Fonda, whom we last saw in A Simple Plan. Jackson also has dealings with Robert Forster, a bail bondsman.


I liked this movie a fair amount when I watched it the first time but I wanted to rewatch it because I've seen people say it's Tarantino's best, which made me think I was maybe underrating it, and anyways Tarantino films basically always go up in my estimation when I rewatch them. I now think this is basically as good as some people say it is, although it doesn't occupy my #1 Tarantino slot (that's Pulp Fiction) and it's about tied with two other favorite (Inglourious Basterds and The Hateful Eight). Still, this is a masterpiece.


Every aspect of the movie is stupendous, but a couple things that stood out to me this time around are Jackson and De Niro's performances - they're both very good at playing different sorts of giant loving losers - and the plot, which is a masterful mix of scheming that we're given a very clear view of and parts that we're in the dark about. When it comes to movies centered around schemes (as many noirs are) it's a very fine line to walk between revealing everything (and thus giving the audience the fun of watching a plan as it unfolds) and nothing (and thus keeping people in suspense). Too much of one or the other can ruin things, but, less drastically, too much of one or the other can simply lessen the effectiveness of what would otherwise be a great film. This movie walks the line perfectly, I think. Okay, one more thing: Keaton does a great job playing someone a little too into Grier but not way too much into Grier. Honestly, every actor in this movie is perfect. It's so good!

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
I know it's like, a stereotypical film snob thing to say that Jackie Brown is Tarantino's best movie but man, I think it might be true. It's the only one I think might actually be perfect. Even in Pulp Fiction, there's so many characters and storylines that I feel like there's a few things there I would change or take out but Jackie Brown keeps me glued to the screen from start to finish.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Inherent Vice (2014), dir. Paul Thomas Anderson


Joaquin Phoenix is a hippie private eye in 1970s Gordita Beach, Los Angeles. His ex-girlfriend, Katherine Waterston, shows up to ask for his help with regard to a plot involving her real estate developer boyfriend. The twists and turns end up involving Josh Brolin, a police detective who moonlights as a terrible actor, Owen Wilson as a saxophone player who is not dead, Reese Witherspoon as a deputy district attorney and Phoenix's girlfriend, Benicio del Toro as Phoenix's lawyer, and a dozen other characters besides, like FBI agents Flatweed and Borderline.


When I first watched this movie I thought it was alright - 75 out of 100, more or less. This was for two main reasons. First, although I'm normallyv ery good about not getting my expectations too high for something, in this case I let them get away from me. This is one of my favorite directors making a movie from a novel written by one of my favorite authors, so I let myself get pumped up, and my expectations were way too high. Second, although I think most people have trouble following the plot, I had the opposite problem. The movie hews very close to the book and it was hard for me to see it as its own thing: I just kept seeing stuff from the page on the screen. One of the main changes the movie makes just made things worse, because it turns one character into a narrator who wasn't in the book, but then her narration is just lines from the book, so the end result is to make it even closer to the book than it otherwise would've been.


Anyways, all that aside, on the rewatch this improved drastically in my estimation. I was able to appreciate how amazing it looks rather than getting distracted by small details from the book, and I was able to appreciate the amazing acting (especially by the two leads, Phoenix and Brolin, but really by everyone) rather than just seeing people playing out scenes from the book. Obviously by this point I have no problem following the plot at all, which again is I think one issue people have, and so now I'm pretty happy with it. It's not a masterpiece like many of Anderson's movies but it's a really solid neo-noir and I'm happy with that.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
Brolin is so goddamn good in Inherent Vice. MOLTO PANACAKO!!!

Big Bad Voodoo Lou
Jan 1, 2006

TychoCelchuuu posted:

Okay, one more thing: Keaton does a great job playing someone a little too into Grier but not way too much into Grier. Honestly, every actor in this movie is perfect. It's so good!

Jackie Brown is definitely my favorite Tarantino movie. It helps that I'm a giant Elmore Leonard fan too. On that note, my favorite piece of Jackie Brown trivia is that Michael Keaton playes the exact same character, Ray, in Steven Soderbergh's equally flawless Leonard adaptation Out of Sight the following year. Shared universe!

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

TychoCelchuuu posted:


Inherent Vice (2014), dir. Paul Thomas Anderson


Joaquin Phoenix is a hippie private eye in 1970s Gordita Beach, Los Angeles. His ex-girlfriend, Katherine Waterston, shows up to ask for his help with regard to a plot involving her real estate developer boyfriend. The twists and turns end up involving Josh Brolin, a police detective who moonlights as a terrible actor, Owen Wilson as a saxophone player who is not dead, Reese Witherspoon as a deputy district attorney and Phoenix's girlfriend, Benicio del Toro as Phoenix's lawyer, and a dozen other characters besides, like FBI agents Flatweed and Borderline.


When I first watched this movie I thought it was alright - 75 out of 100, more or less. This was for two main reasons. First, although I'm normallyv ery good about not getting my expectations too high for something, in this case I let them get away from me. This is one of my favorite directors making a movie from a novel written by one of my favorite authors, so I let myself get pumped up, and my expectations were way too high. Second, although I think most people have trouble following the plot, I had the opposite problem. The movie hews very close to the book and it was hard for me to see it as its own thing: I just kept seeing stuff from the page on the screen. One of the main changes the movie makes just made things worse, because it turns one character into a narrator who wasn't in the book, but then her narration is just lines from the book, so the end result is to make it even closer to the book than it otherwise would've been.


Anyways, all that aside, on the rewatch this improved drastically in my estimation. I was able to appreciate how amazing it looks rather than getting distracted by small details from the book, and I was able to appreciate the amazing acting (especially by the two leads, Phoenix and Brolin, but really by everyone) rather than just seeing people playing out scenes from the book. Obviously by this point I have no problem following the plot at all, which again is I think one issue people have, and so now I'm pretty happy with it. It's not a masterpiece like many of Anderson's movies but it's a really solid neo-noir and I'm happy with that.

This sums up my experiences exactly. PTA is one of my favorite directors, Inherent Vice is my favorite novel and Pynchon is my favorite author; my expectations couldn’t have been higher. And the change to the ending, while happier, is also a mark against the film. But I do think it’s good and it deserves a rewatch.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Miller's Crossing (1990), dir. Ethan and Joel Coen


Gabriel Byrne, looking like Henry Fonda, who looks like Willem Defoe, who looks like himself, is a right hand man to Albert Finney, an Irish mob boss in a Prohibition-era city in the US. Trouble is stirring, and it involves Marcia Gay Harden, Finney's squeeze; John Turturro, her brother; Jon Polito, a rival mob boss; and J. E. Freeman, Polito's right hand man.


This is the second Coen neo-noir, after their first movie and first neo-noir, Blood Simple. I liked this one when I first saw it and I liked it on rewatch too. The plot is pretty traditional and largely uninteresting, which is unusual for the Coens. And Byrne, although he does a good job, doesn't get a very interesting character to play, in part because of how the plot works out, I guess. But the cinematography is gorgeous (Barry Sonnenfeld), the music is great (Carter Burwell), the period details are fun, and Turturro and Polito especially are firing on all cylinders.


A lot of the movie is drawn from the Hammett novel The Glass Key, another adaptation of which we've already seen in this thread. Although this is one of the Coen movies which is played the most straight, there are some touches of their characteristic way of looking at the world, like a wonderful standoff scene outside a speakeasy and a police raid of a gambling club, both of which are huge setpieces with no particular importance to the plot, so they end up getting used as background for the conversations which actually matter, to humorous effect. A very good throwback neo-noir.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

TychoCelchuuu posted:


Miller's Crossing (1990), dir. Ethan and Joel Coen


Gabriel Byrne, looking like Henry Fonda, who looks like Willem Defoe, who looks like himself, is a right hand man to Albert Finney, an Irish mob boss in a Prohibition-era city in the US. Trouble is stirring, and it involves Marcia Gay Harden, Finney's squeeze; John Turturro, her brother; Jon Polito, a rival mob boss; and J. E. Freeman, Polito's right hand man.


This is the second Coen neo-noir, after their first movie and first neo-noir, Blood Simple. I liked this one when I first saw it and I liked it on rewatch too. The plot is pretty traditional and largely uninteresting, which is unusual for the Coens. And Byrne, although he does a good job, doesn't get a very interesting character to play, in part because of how the plot works out, I guess. But the cinematography is gorgeous (Barry Sonnenfeld), the music is great (Carter Burwell), the period details are fun, and Turturro and Polito especially are firing on all cylinders.


A lot of the movie is drawn from the Hammett novel The Glass Key, another adaptation of which we've already seen in this thread. Although this is one of the Coen movies which is played the most straight, there are some touches of their characteristic way of looking at the world, like a wonderful standoff scene outside a speakeasy and a police raid of a gambling club, both of which are huge setpieces with no particular importance to the plot, so they end up getting used as background for the conversations which actually matter, to humorous effect. A very good throwback neo-noir.

Great movie, but a marathon to watch.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
It flies by for me! Like all the Coen films. They could make a 6 hour film and I'd watch it twice in a row.

We interrupt your regularly scheduled neo-noir rewatches with a brand new neo-noir:


The Little Things (2021), dir. John Lee Hancock


It's 1990 in Los Angeles and Denzel Washington is a former detective, now a deputy, haunted by an unsolved multiple murder 5 years ago. He gets drawn into what is possibly a linked case, being handled by his replacement Rami Malek, and the two end up on the trail of Jared Leto, noted creep.


Can't say I liked it very much. I like the three leads (well, Leto I'm hot and cold on) and the ending's okay but there's very little else to recommend here. It's not particularly gorgeous or interesting to look at, the soundtrack is out of your head as soon as it's in there, and when Leto said to Malek something like "we're not so different, you and I. In another life we could've been friends" I thought for a moment I was watching a joke copy of the movie where the script was written by a series of writers trying to outcompete each other for the most hokey, threadbare cliche they could shove into this thing.


It does (all too briefly - for about five seconds) feature a dog, so it gets bonus points there, and there's nothing actively lovely or offensive about it. And it's not like killing a couple hours watching Denzel Washington emote is ever a complete waste of time. But, really, the whole thing is as mediocre as it gets. The movie also features Natalie Morales who, as far as I can tell, cannot act (I'm sorry! Maybe she's good in stuff I haven't seen!) and Jason James Richter, the kid from Free Willy.

MightyJoe36
Dec 29, 2013

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:
To Live and Die in L.A. (1985) Directed by William Friedkin. Starring then unknowns Willem Dafoe and William Petersen.



Rick Masters (Dafoe) is a master counterfeiter and wannabe modern artist who is always one step ahead of the Secret Service.



Richard Chance (Petersen) is a hot dog Secret Service agent not above bending the rules.



When Chance's partner, who is four days from retirement, gets too close, Masters kills him and leaves his body in a dumpster. Chance then goes full rogue, doing everything he can, legal and illegal, to get Masters.

This is a pretty good neo-noir, with lots of twists and turns, double-crosses, and shady characters. An overlooked gem in my opinion.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
One of my favorites! As a huge '80s nut, this is in my list of beloved neo-noirs. Although, in terms of '80s neo-noirs starring Petersen, it can't stand up to Manhunter, and in terms of movies starring a relatively unknown Willem Dafoe, I prefer Loveless. This podcast episode about it is pretty great.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled neo-noir rewatches:


Fargo (1996), dir. Joel Coen


Minneapolis car dealership manager William H. Macy hires Steve Buscemi and Peter Stormare to kidnap his wife in order to get the ransom money from his father in law. Frances McDormand is the police chief from nearby Brainerd who gets drawn into matters when complications inevitably ensue.


I mean, look. I like this movie, especially all the terrible Midwestern food McDormand stuffs in her face. (She's pregnant, but her husband is an equally bad offender and he has no excuse!) But I don't love it nearly as much as most people do. It's not my favorite Coen brothers film (a spot it occupies for many) or even my favorite Coen brothers neo-noir. I appreciate everything it's doing but I guess for me the whole is less than the sum of its parts.


I think if I can put my finger on it, my main two issues are that everyone is very one-note, and it's sort of the sweetest of the Coen neo-noirs in a weird way. First issue: none of the characters ever do anything surprising - they're basically archetypes acting out rather rote predefined roles. It makes the movie's main theme of pointlessness and futility less powerful, I think, because the proceedings all feel natural and preordained but at the same time rote and commonplace. Compare that to something like A Serious Man, which feels natural and preordained but also completely inscrutable and mind-destroyingly incomprehensible because the characters are alive inside it, or most of the other Coen noirs, which are twisty and turny plot-wise and thus effective mouse traps for the poor people stuck inside them. Second issue: I mean, yes, it's grim, but for McDormand it kind of isn't? Like, she basically just shrugs it all off and looks forward to having a baby soon. Nothing gets to her, including anything in the movie, and that kind of makes it all feel empty to me. I think the greatness of the Coen brothers is when they show us our absurd world, but Fargo feels like looking in at a story about another world.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

The Big Lebowski (1998), dir. Joel and Ethan Coen


Jeff Bridges is a stoner in 1991 Los Angeles who is mistaken for another guy with the same name and accosted by thugs looking for money. This draws him and his friends John Goodman and Steve Buscemi into a kidnapping mystery and various other complications involving Julianne Moore, David Thewlis, Peter Stormare, Flea, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and many others.


For my money this is not just the best Coen brothers neo-noir and not just one of the best neo-noirs but also one of the greatest movies of all time. It improves every time I rewatch it and by now I think it's a perfect movie. It's hilarious, it has a perfect mix of careful noir plotting and utter, pointless aimlessness, the performances are all absolutely pitch perfect, the dream sequences are amazing... everything else is good too.


One thing that stood out to me on this rewatch is how excellently Jeff Bridges's character is sketched. He's about as laid back as a person can get, but he's also utterly realistic: he gets upset at his rug being ruined (which kicks off the entire plot of the movie), and then he gets genuinely angry and worried when it seems like someone's well-being is on the line (and equally relieved when it seems like it isn't), and then downright scared and anxious when it looks like his well-being is on the line. A lesser movie would've made him utterly impervious to stressors but in this film he's a genuine believable dude.

FreudianSlippers
Apr 12, 2010

Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIaetvrxVc

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
Free online noir festival, starting today-ish.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.
The Criterion Channel's July additions includes a lot of excellent neo-noir. Notice that they've got Suture, which is otherwise pretty tough to find I think. I posted about it in this thread. (Other movies listed below that I've posted about in here are Mona Lisa, Cutter's Way, and The Last Seduction.)

Cotton Comes to Harlem (1970), Across 110th Street (1972), The Long Goodbye (1973), Chinatown (1974)**, Night Moves (1975), Farewell, My Lovely (1975), The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976), The American Friend (1977), The Big Sleep (1978), Eyes of Laura Mars (1978), The Onion Field (1979), Body Heat (1981), Thief (1981)*, Blow Out (1981), Cutter’s Way (1981), Blood Simple (1984), Body Double (1984), The Hit (1984), Trouble in Mind (1985), Manhunter (1986), Mona Lisa (1986), The Bedroom Window (1987), Homicide (1991), Swoon (1992), Suture (1993), The Last Seduction (1994), Brick (2005)**

* means it's available in September, ** means it's available only in the US.

TychoCelchuuu fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jun 29, 2021

VoodooXT
Feb 24, 2006
I want Tong Po! Give me Tong Po!
I recommend watching Cutter's Way mainly because it was one of the last New Hollywood films, for John Heard's performance, and for Jordan Cronenweth's cinematography and the influence it had on Don Thorin's cinematography on Thief because Don was Jordan's camera operator on Cutter's Way until halfway through filming (because he was called off to shoot Thief).

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
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TV
Travel
~Good Times~
Anyone here seen Criterion’s Nikkatsu Noir collection? I got it from the library and watched I Am Waiting yesterday. It’s a pretty good noir that starts strong with a man and a woman with mysterious pasts slowly growing find of each other and opening up about their respective pasts. Unfortunately, once the mystery starts about halfway through the movie, it gets a lot weaker and the main female character is almost totally written out of the film. The finale’s an absolute banger, though.

TychoCelchuuu posted:

As snowy neo-noirs go this is right up there with Fargo, if you ask me. Thornton and Paxton both do a tremendous job playing their characters (who are brothers) and the script alternates between great character moments and occurrences which escalate the tension, leading up to a really tense and fraught climax.

I know this is an old-rear end post, but I’m jumping in to say that if I remember correctly, the Coens gave Sam Raimi advice for shooting a movie in the snow.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.

How many noirs with a snowy setting are there anyway? Aside from the two Tycho mentioned, I can only think of Odd Man Out.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011

X-Ray Pecs posted:

Anyone here seen Criterion’s Nikkatsu Noir collection? I got it from the library and watched I Am Waiting yesterday. It’s a pretty good noir that starts strong with a man and a woman with mysterious pasts slowly growing find of each other and opening up about their respective pasts. Unfortunately, once the mystery starts about halfway through the movie, it gets a lot weaker and the main female character is almost totally written out of the film. The finale’s an absolute banger, though.

A Colt is my Passport is the highlight of that collection, and the only that has the correct amount of plot in these type of Japanese b-movies, barely any. The final shootout is also a big classic.

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~

Electronico6 posted:

A Colt is my Passport is the highlight of that collection, and the only that has the correct amount of plot in these type of Japanese b-movies, barely any. The final shootout is also a big classic.

I’m excited for the rest, especially A Colt is my Passport and Take Aim at the Police Van, two all-time great movie names. The only noir-ish Japanese movie I’d seen before this was Tokyo Drifter, which was a heater (and apparently was a controversial topic in the 9 months or so since I last checked this thread).

UNRULY_HOUSEGUEST
Jul 19, 2006

mea culpa

Samuel Clemens posted:

How many noirs with a snowy setting are there anyway? Aside from the two Tycho mentioned, I can only think of Odd Man Out.

In terms of classic era noir there's also Nightfall and On Dangerous Ground, albeit I don't really think On Dangerous Ground stays very noirish by the time it reaches the snowy outdoors. Track of the Cat I've seen classed as a noir western, which I can definitely see.

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

¡Hola SEA!


The climax of Nightfall wrecks

VoodooXT
Feb 24, 2006
I want Tong Po! Give me Tong Po!

X-Ray Pecs posted:

Anyone here seen Criterion’s Nikkatsu Noir collection? I got it from the library and watched I Am Waiting yesterday. It’s a pretty good noir that starts strong with a man and a woman with mysterious pasts slowly growing find of each other and opening up about their respective pasts. Unfortunately, once the mystery starts about halfway through the movie, it gets a lot weaker and the main female character is almost totally written out of the film. The finale’s an absolute banger, though.

I own Nikkatsu Noir and I largely felt the same. I am Waiting starts strong but really peters out at the end, and I ended up rating that as the weakest in the set. I rated Cruel Gun Story and A Colt is My Passport as the top films in that set but I have to go back and watch them to see if they switched spots.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Samuel Clemens posted:

How many noirs with a snowy setting are there anyway? Aside from the two Tycho mentioned, I can only think of Odd Man Out.
There's Black Coal, Thin Ice, Quai des Orfèvres, and parts of Tokyo Drifter.

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

I added Nightfall to my list recently, I'll have to bump that up. Tarantino mentioned it on some podcasts, possibly that one with Edgar Wright. And he mentions Aldo Ray a lot since he has some role in Once Upon A Time in Hollywood and/or it's book.

Plus it has a cool title, when you listen to one of those podcasts there isn't enough time to google every title. A cool title goes a long way.

I've also heard good things and been meaning to see Criss Cross, In A Lonely Place, and Pickup on South Street.

For the fun of it, this list of noir, British crime thrillers, cool old movies or whatever they mentioned that i was gonna look up, in case any are worthy of extra recommends here:

Green for Danger
Tiger Bay
Pandora and the Flying Dutchman
Force of Evil
The Threat
Sapphire
All Night Long
Pool of London
Yield to the Night

Tarantino also loves the Breathless remake and Eight Million Ways to Die for some reason. I wasn't interested in either of those due to adaptation issues and whatnot, but now i'm a bit interested.

Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Aug 10, 2021

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X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
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~Good Times~
The only one of those I’ve seen is In a Lonely Place, which loving slaps.

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