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 What is Keyforge?   FFG posted:Enter a world where anything is possible in KeyForge! In the center of the universe hangs the Crucible, an artificial world built from the pieces of countless planets. Here, in the world’s first Unique Deck Game, created by legendary designer Richard Garfield, two players step into the roles of mighty Archons, racing to forge keys that unlock the Crucible’s hidden Vaults. Ok, I still don't get it. What is Keyforge? Keyforge is a 2 player card game designed by Richard Garfield, the creator of Magic: The Gathering and Netrunner. Unlike typical "dude smashers", in which players attack one another with cards they play, the goal in Keyforge is to...forge...keys. What does that mean? Well basically you collect enough of the in game resource and then you can make a key which is like a big victory point; get 3 and you win. There is also no 'mana' or currency needed to buy cards. Each turn you choose one of your 3 houses and for that turn you can only play and activate cards of that house. That means that if you have a powerful unit on the board, in order to keep using that unit you'll have to choose that house, which means you won't be able to play cards from other houses which might slow you down in the long run. It's a pretty interesting mechanic and seems like it creates lots of decision points in the game. What does the unique thing mean? Unlike other CCGs, and LCGs your deck in Keyforge is completely static. You can never change your deck. This is offset however by the fact that every deck in the game is generated through an algorithm creating a completely unique deck list, card back, and deck name. So while you can't change the cards in your deck, nobody will ever have those same cards as you. You can even register your deck online and keep the world updated on it's wins and losses. So if I can't change the cards, why would I want to buy more? Since each deck is completely random for you the player, buying a new deck means having to learn how to play that deck based purely on the cards in that deck. Ever played someone who always beat you with X card, well give them a new deck and see what happens when that card isn't available for them anymore, or pick up a new deck for yourself to try and find a combination that will counter theirs. There are 7 different houses (factions) in the game and you deck will be a mix of 3 of them so getting new decks also gives you the chance to explore the other houses. I believe the numbers are that if you want to get one deck for each house combination you'd end up with 35 decks.  How much does it cost? There is a starter set that contains two decks, the rules, and all the various tokens you'll need to play priced at $39.95 USD (msrp) Individual decks are sold at $10 USD (msrp). The rules are available online and there aren't a huge amount of tokens so if you're poor/cheap you can just grab two of the individual decks and use tokens you have laying around. To be quite honest the starter set is really over priced but be a nice person and think of it as charity toward your local game store; the mark-up on the decks themselves isn't huge. You mentioned registering my deck online, is that an online app or anything to play with others online also? Not yet, but this seems very likely to be something that's possible in the future. Right now the online stuff is just for tracking/statistical purposes. What kind of Organized Play support is there for this game? There are event kits being sent out to retailers. Events can be using a deck you already have(Archon) or require buying a new deck at the event(Sealed). Additionally there are quite a few different kinds of events that you can run:
 Fake Outrage & Real News - This game is racist and offensive! Some words were included in the random naming algorithm for decks that create unfortunate, and in some cases, offensive combinations. These names have been removed from the online registry and if you try to register a deck with a removed name you'll be notified and FFG will probably send and generate you a new deck with a corrected name. This stuff happens with random naming things as innocuous words like 'white' and 'power' can suddenly become a very offensive phrase when randomly put next to each other. Obviously FFG had put things in place to catch word combinations like these Real Outrage & Fake News - This game killed Netrunner! Keyforge has been in development for a long time. There is an interesting article up on the FFG site talking about the about of extra work they had to put into just the production side of thing compared to their LCGs. This game didn't appear over night, and it certainly wasn't intended to replace Netrunner. It certainly appears from FFG insider sources that the decision to drop Netrunner was due to Asmodee(FFG's parent company) not wanting to pay Wizards of the Coast the licensing fee for the Netrunner IP. Keyforge had nothing to do with this and the target audience of the two games are quite different. Keyforge is a much more introductory game with a far more casual focus at the Organized Play level. This game seems too easy and I don't like that I can't change my deck. Yes, this is not meant to compete with other, more complex, LCGs like A Game of Thrones or Legend of the Five Rings. This is a product aimed at a much more casual audience. However because the game might lack the depth and competitive meta scene that other games have, that does not make this a bad game. If you prefer those games then great, I do too; however I'm willing to give this game a chance because with a $10 price point on getting someone's foot in the door you might just be able to attract players who would normally avoid these types of games. Also not being able to destroy newbies with your meta defining World Champion's net deck is probably a good thing. One complaint that most LCG players who come over from Magic have, is the lack of sealed(ok, mostly draft). Imagine being able to go pay $10 at your Friday Night Magic and being able to walk away with an actually competitive deck: that's what FFG wants from this game. If you want to just grab a few decks and 6 months from now be able to jump into a game with a guy that's been playing since day 1 then your deck won't lose any competitive edge due to power creep(at least not until we actually see some expansions). Art is bad. Theme is bad. Yeah, I'm not sold on it either. It feels very similar to Smash Up in terms of them throwing wacky things together and trying to be light-hearted and silly. There's nothing inherently wrong with that but it doesn't really land, and between the theme and the art it feels a lot like them trying to copy elements of Hearthstone. Since the game is lighter it does work and I don't think having a darker, more serious, theme would actually be good. I guess my best advice is just to embrace the cheese of whatever silly named Archon you're playing. Important Links The Official Keyforge Site, scan your deck on the app and share it from here. FFG Product Info Page The Crucible, Unofficial Online Play via a Browser Burger Tokens, run by a friendly goon, agscala, with many goon endorsements. Features a deck analyzer and create a card function, in addition to selling custom tokens for Keyforge. Keyforge Compendium - A very straightforward deck analysis tool. Aembertree - Card database site with useful search and filtering options PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Dec 3, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 16:53
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I'm so hype for Keyforge, I really enjoyed the London preview event.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:58
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I was super cynical about this game when it was announced but having ignored any articles about it until I played a few games in the pre-release yesterday, it actually seems like an okay casual game? I have no idea how they're going to try and get an organized play competitive community going for it, but I don't regret getting a single deck, right now I'm just waffling on how much I actually want to play it, since even with a store discount the core set is a pretty hefty price to pay for some cardboard tokens; but at least unlike LCGs you only need to buy one of them, so it's got that going for it. The theme/background material sure is a hot mess that I'm going to ignore forever though, like almost all of FFG's original IPs.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:59
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I'm hype mostly because it's cheap and pretty casual. I plan on buying one more deck (so my kit can have two and I can teach it), and beyond that, only what I get in sealed formats.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:01
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Two players really should be splitting the cost on a starter set. There's enough tokens that two people can get what they need from a single starter and while it does double the buy-in it's pretty reasonable. Only one set of rules but you can get those from the website anyway.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:04
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PaybackJack posted:
This is my biggest issue with the game right now. The card backs in particular have a lot of cool ideas (the custom deck names, the unique avatar-looking guy) but it's marred by having the three House logos across every card like a Wal-Mart knockoff of a WoW hotbar or something. I actually really like the illustrations themselves after playing several games, the houses all have distinct visual themes but the cards themselves are pretty distinctive (okay, minus a few Sanctum cards...). But the actual functional art of the game is Not Good. The game itself is way better than I was expecting it to be - a lot of cards are really situational and weird but because of the total lack of mana costs and the myriad abilities that let you fire off other abilities almost every game I played was really interesting and fun and had a few unexpected combos. Playing the same four cards in a slightly different order can change the entire game in some cases. e: I rescind my earlier statement, my biggest issue with the game right now is I have a deck here all lonely and sad and I have to wait for another four days to buy more to actually, y'know, play the game at home. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 17:07
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food court bailiff posted:e: I rescind my earlier statement, my biggest issue with the game right now is I have a deck here all lonely and sad and I have to wait for another four days to buy more to actually, y'know, play the game at home. We aren't even getting stuff out here in Taiwan until the end of the month so I'm jealous of everyone that got to play at Gencon and is getting to do release stuff now.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:18
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PaybackJack posted:Art is bad. Theme is bad. Counter-point: There's art on the cards? You look at things besides card stats/actions? 
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Nov 11, 2018 17:35
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After playing in the prerelease event at FFG yesterday and doing terribly, my favorite thing about Keyforge is being able to blame my deck for my losses when I'm probably just crap at the game. Even if I never use that deck again, for ten bucks I got five games in at the event. I'd say that was good value for money.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:42
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This was one of the weirdest games I've tried. Never played a game that was so new, so novel, so interesting, so many neat mechanics I have never seen, but still not very fun to play. I'd rate the theme as a -10 / 10. My underwear has better flavor than these cards. Things I liked: 1. Gameplay was not a rehash of the same old poo poo. The game is overflowing with new types of mechanics and board states compared to other card games. 2. The houses / house declaration system combined with ability pitch and redraw your hand every turn leads to a lot of interesting decisions. 3. I enjoyed being able to switch decks with my opponent after a couple games and play the opposite side of the match up. This game makes this possible much more so than other types of card games. My chief complaints: 1. Theme / Flavor is so bad that having cards without names or art would be an upgrade. 2. It plays MTG combo decks racing to assemble their combo. There is some interaction, but the interactions are boring. I feel like I wouldn't have any less fun playing against AI. 3. There seemed to be a lack of any bomb type cards. I only played two decks, but neither had any sort of card that was head and shoulders better than the rest. I like having some sort of huge spell or dragon I want to cast. 4. Winning by forging keys was such a boring concept to me.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:11
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Pinwiz11 posted:Counter-point: There's art on the cards? You look at things besides card stats/actions? :agree:
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Nov 11, 2018 18:18
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There's definitely big splashy bomb cards--there's a few giant creatures out there, and my favorite out of the three decks I have (2 decks, the third is godawful) is the Four Horsemen, who come as a package deal in Sanctum. They're all 5 power; Famine and Pestilence have Play/Reap/Draw abilities--Famine kills the weakest creature, Pestilence does one damage to all non-horsemen. When you play War, your off-House creatures can attack that turn, and Death brings all the Horsemen in your discard back to your hand, which can make for some real mega-turns. Good art on them, too.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:21
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Without any mana style system, big bombs have to be pretty limited in their bomb-ness. And given that the aim of the game is not damage, they're also just not as useful. A big bomb critter can only reap once or attack once, so what good is it over a 1-health plinker? The single best creature in the game, possibly the best CARD in the game, is Dust Pixie...
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Nov 11, 2018 18:26
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So I know the 'keys' are not meant to look like 'keys' but I enjoy the novelty of making custom pieces that use key-keys. A quick stop by one of my local crafting shops and I found some that are just about the right size and shape. I'll probably bling them up some more maybe with various braids around the loop there but in combination with some glass stones I had laying around, I'm already started on making some custom game pieces. Almost half the fun for me of buying board and card games comes from doing stuff like this and in this case they'll actually be really helpful and I can give them away as prizes for the introductory card game night I want to run at a local bistro. 
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Nov 11, 2018 18:52
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I think a KeyForge cube would actually be fun, and now I'm trying to think if there'd be a way to get a full set of cards on the cheap.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:17
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This game is honestly incredible and much, much more deep and interesting than MTG. There, I said it. Dont @ me
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Nov 11, 2018 19:57
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How is farmer of racism not in the OP>?
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Nov 11, 2018 21:53
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Palemdromes posted:This game is honestly incredible and much, much more deep and interesting than MTG. There, I said it. Dont @ me I found it deep and interesting, wasn't very fun though.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:28
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Mugaaz posted:I found it deep and interesting, wasn't very fun though. That makes no sense.
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Nov 12, 2018 01:32
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Palemdromes posted:That makes no sense. Why not? Games can be deep and interesting and not fun at all, or shallow and uninteresting and fun. Fun != Deep != Interesting
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Nov 12, 2018 01:36
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They've posted an Organized Play FAQ video. Some highlights: - You can't use dice to represent anything at all, because they can be easily knocked over. - You can use anything else you want to represent tokens and counters, as long as it's clear to your opponent what they do. - At higher levels of play, opaque sleeves only. TOs can allow transparent sleeves if they want. - Once decks are registered online, at store level events your record will be tracked and chains will be assigned to your deck if it's too good. At high tier events, decks don't start with any chains they've gathered this way, which is going to make good decks more valuable. - No plans to allow play on the app. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3F07NCUAaA
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Nov 12, 2018 02:36
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LifeLynx posted:- You can't use dice to represent anything at all, because they can be easily knocked over. Booooooo.
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Nov 12, 2018 02:46
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It's worth noting there's a very workable online implementation of the game over at https://www.thecrucible.online. It doesn't randomly generate decks so there's a fixed number of decks scanned in you can choose from. I played my first game of Keyforge on it the other day and had a great time. Good way to dip your toes in if you're on the fence.
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Nov 12, 2018 04:08
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Pvt. Parts posted:It's worth noting there's a very workable online implementation of the game over at https://www.thecrucible.online. It doesn't randomly generate decks so there's a fixed number of decks scanned in you can choose from. I played my first game of Keyforge on it the other day and had a great time. Good way to dip your toes in if you're on the fence. I'd assume that they could import decks from the KeyForge app once it's live. I'd hope so.
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Nov 12, 2018 05:16
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Someone post the offensive names
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Nov 12, 2018 05:52
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Going to a keyforge event in a few hours (Brisbane ~ Australia) and looking forward to it. It will be nice to have a pocket card game to play during breaks between warhams, but without the sinking feeling of meeting someone who is going to drop a leet bullshit deck on you even though you've just finished telling them you're a casual player.
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Nov 12, 2018 06:07
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LifeLynx posted:- No plans to allow play on the app. I'm thinking this is to cater to the OP events as they are held in stores. It's hard to believe that they wouldn't do app gaming at some point but I can see not rushing it out of the gate to try and promote retail sales and encourage retailers to run OP events.
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Nov 12, 2018 06:50
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What's with the opaque sleeves rule? I deliberately bought transparent sleeves so I could distinguish my different decks easily.
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Nov 12, 2018 08:11
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frameset posted:What's with the opaque sleeves rule? I deliberately bought transparent sleeves so I could distinguish my different decks easily. The justification is that damage to card backs can mean that you can read what's coming in your deck, which sleeving should prevent. I'd have less of an issue with it if FFG supplied the right sleeves. Having to buy 3rd party is a PITA.
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Nov 12, 2018 09:39
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thespaceinvader posted:The justification is that damage to card backs can mean that you can read what's coming in your deck, which sleeving should prevent. I've played MTG for years, so I'm used to using opaque sleeves. I just specifically bought translucent for this game so I could see the houses, name, etc. There's a couple of good quality brands your LGS could supply you with for sleeves, try Dragon Shield or Ultimate Guard. I like UG for Keyforge as you get an 80 pack which does two decks with a few spares.
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Nov 12, 2018 10:08
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thespaceinvader posted:The justification is that damage to card backs can mean that you can read what's coming in your deck, which sleeving should prevent. Do you mean sold sleeves in the game, because FFG makes sleeves of all kinds? That said, dragon shield mattes or death. However if you like seeing the card back to some degree, KMC Hyper Matte clears are good, if not tournament legal. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 12:13
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Maybe it's just that my FLGS doesn't stock plain-coloured FFG opaque sleeves then - but I can either get clear ones, or the promo Destiny ones with character art. No plain colours. I don't really care about the card backs, (though it does bug me a bit covering them up, plain colour sleeves just look weird) I just want to make sure my poo poo is legal for whatever I want to bring it to without needing to faff changing sleeves.
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Nov 12, 2018 14:42
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Opaque sleeves are only required at "higher level" events like the inevitable Store Championships and above, so there's no issues with clear sleeves at your local weekly event (unless your TO is a jerk).
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Nov 12, 2018 14:44
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Pinwiz11 posted:Opaque sleeves are only required at "higher level" events like the inevitable Store Championships and above, so there's no issues with clear sleeves at your local weekly event (unless your TO is a jerk). I know. I want to make sure I never have to change sleeves regardless of what level I play at.
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Nov 12, 2018 14:48
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I had a lot of trouble with amber manipulation fuckery like shadows. I feel like people are going to churn through decks until they draw three of four houses which have strong styles.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:02
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thespaceinvader posted:Maybe it's just that my FLGS doesn't stock plain-coloured FFG opaque sleeves then - but I can either get clear ones, or the promo Destiny ones with character art. No plain colours. Yeah your LGS must not stock them. FFG makes opaque standard sized sleeves in at least the five MTG colors.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:09
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As someone who hated art sleeves and then gave FFG's Star Wars art sleeves a go, I give them a high recommendation. The sleeve is a good bit bigger than the cards which could be a problem if you have really tight deckboxes but does allow for double sleeving. I usually use matte sleeves because where I live the humidity is wet and sticky year round so if you haven't shuffled your deck in a week it will stick together. I can say in 5 years of using FFG art sleeves, I can count on one hand the number of sleeves that broke on me(0) though after such a long time of use the laminate over the art had started to peel on some of them and had to be replaced. With most(all?) of FFG's LCGs they've had sleeves printed that matched the back of the card and while this wouldn't be possible in Keyforge it's certainly possible that they print some custom art Keyforge sleeves, so look out for those and don't dismiss them just because they're art sleeves. PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 15:39
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Somberbrero posted:Booooooo. Someday I will understand FFG's utter hatred of numeric dice, but that day is not today. Seriously, I think this is a rule for all their card games, but how heavily it's enforced might vary (like at Worlds I definitely saw Netrunnner players using dice for things like virus counters and stuff, just not actual credit counts). e: PaybackJack posted:As someone who hated art sleeves and then gave FFG's Star Wars art sleeves a go, I give them a high recommendation. The sleeve is a good bit bigger than the cards which could be a problem if you have really tight deckboxes but does allow for double sleeving. I usually use matte sleeves because where I live the humidity is wet and sticky year round so if you haven't shuffled your deck in a week it will stick together. I can say in 5 years of using FFG art sleeves, I can count on one hand the number of sleeves that broke on me(0) though after such a long time of use the laminate over the art had started to peel on some of them and had to be replaced. I have definitely had FFG art sleeves fall apart on me, but only on cards that I've taken to like six or seven tournaments without resleeving. For the price (generally, $cheap as hell) FFG sleeves are actually really decent, art backs or not. I have no idea why they have such a horrible reputation, I have had a lot more wonky slightly mis-cut Dragon Shields than I've gotten from FFG. Rockman Reserve fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 15:53
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I'm *really* hoping that one of the OP prize ideas that Alex was so hype about when we talked at Nats (but which he couldn't share in case it didn't work out) is custom swag based on your archon. Given that the QR codes let you register control of an archon, it would presumably be possibel to dig that archon's image and name out of the database and stick it on a set of sleeves, or a playmat, or a shirt, via print on demand technology. I would *love* to get a playmat of my favourite deck XD
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Nov 12, 2018 16:38
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thespaceinvader posted:I'd have less of an issue with it if FFG supplied the right sleeves. Having to buy 3rd party is a PITA. Why is it a PITA? Any LGS will have literally dozens of sleeve choices, just buy whatever you like. I wish any online discussion about a game with cards didn't derail into sleeve chat, but non-Magic players get anxiety about buying sleeves like it's a major purchasing decision. Just get what looks nice! food court bailiff posted:Someday I will understand FFG's utter hatred of numeric dice, but that day is not today. Seriously, I think this is a rule for all their card games, but how heavily it's enforced might vary (like at Worlds I definitely saw Netrunnner players using dice for things like virus counters and stuff, just not actual credit counts). I'm pretty sure someone high up at FFG has some sort of cardboard addiction problem, because all of their games involve multiple fiddly little cardboard tokens of various shapes and sizes.
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Nov 12, 2018 16:55
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