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Loved the show. A little surprised that no one has commented that the big bad was one of the better metaphors for heroin that I've seen in media. People from abusive backgrounds, like Catra, have an affinity for that drug for obvious reasons. I mean, come on, he literally sticks a needle in people to make them forget all their problems and who they are. A nice callback to the 80s drug panic too. 
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Jul 2, 2020 23:19
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I'm guessing you guys don't know a lot of people from abusive backgrounds and people who do heroin.
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Jul 2, 2020 23:43
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That's too bad. It makes Catra's arc a lot less sympathetic to me. Having someone stick a needle in you then waking up from a pool of serenity makes sense to me. That also being a terrible idea also makes sense to me. Having it just be Catra going through a Protestant phase is pretty blase.
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Jul 3, 2020 08:05
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CuwiKhons posted:Uh, I mean it was still nonconsensual. Horde Prime didn't persuade her to get baptised in green goo with a well thought out argument. She got forcibly brainwashed and control chipped. Which works a lot better for heroin than it does for religion. Especially religion as an adult. If she'd had the same kind of relationship with the Horde as Adora and it just sorta "worked" for her, even if it wasn't perfect then the metaphor of protestantism/religion would work just fine. But she knew the Horde was dumb and evil. She laughed when Adora tried to "reveal" that to her. Religion does brainwash you, but you have to be open to the brainwashing. It doesn't chip control you -- unless she had a protracted adolescence and Horde Prime has been her parents the whole time? I could see a foster child narrative working here -- it feels really grainy to me because of Hordak and Shadow. But Shadow as an abusive foster parent and Horde Prime as a super lovely biological parent who swoops in to gently caress poo poo up is a believable take. Anyway, chip control works way better for addiction since that's what addiction is like. Spinnerella tanking her marriage because of a slip-up and a hidden condition makes way more sense if she's a junkie than if she suddenly "got" religion.
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Jul 3, 2020 08:31
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pentyne posted:This is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted in this thread. You're blaming the victims of cults and horrifically abusive upbringings for being complicit in their own abuse but somehow heroin users are soiled doves who can't help themselves? If Catra had been really attached to the Horde but hated Shadow and was disappointed by Horkak, the religious element could have been solid. Here is Horde Prime who is everything she ever wanted from the Horde. Surprise! He's horrible. That's a metaphor for religion I'd buy. As it is, I'm just saying it makes Catra's arc much worse for me. She's less compelling. Spinneralla is also way closer to a "bury the gays" this way as opposed to, again, something interesting. Too bad. I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying it is boring and makes the show worse.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:37
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pentyne posted:This is possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted in this thread. You're blaming the victims of cults and horrifically abusive upbringings for being complicit in their own abuse but somehow heroin users are soiled doves who can't help themselves? You are dumb as poo poo. Catra knows the Horde is bad, Horde Prime mocks her for hoping to usurp his position and that's what she wants to do. That's a real thing, but that's not a vulnerable person who joins a cult. Especially if the "cult" is just "Protestantism" which seems to be what it is.
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Jul 5, 2020 02:52
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Elephant Ambush posted:Nobody cares. Shut up. Enjoy your critique of Protestantism that says nothing I guess? Too bad.
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Jul 5, 2020 03:22
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Cattail Prophet posted:There's a big difference between "Horde Prime's empire shares many of the trappings, thematic elements, and visual design cues of cults, in a general sense" and "individual characters getting chipped is a specific metaphor for those characters 'finding religion,'" hth. I don't recognize the former and they seem out of touch with the latter. hth.
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Jul 5, 2020 03:33
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Like if She-Ra isn't supposed to be about the characters, that's fine. But that's not how I read it and for a children's show that's also not what I'd expect. My perspective is grounded on the characters. That seems to not be what the writers wanted to create. They wanted to create a broader metaphor where characters don't matter. That's fine too. In that case, I'm a sucker for caring about the characters and I'll admit that. Egg on my face.
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Jul 5, 2020 03:36
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People in this very thread were concerned about the "bury your gays" concerning Spinny during the actual run? If you weren't, good for you I guess? They introduced a lesbian couple in S1. Did pretty much nothing with them. Then made one of them evil in the last season which is traditionally a "characters can actually die" free-for-all. Yeah, I was terrified they were going to kill Spinny. Catra too, though for her it would have been a real hosed up "redemption" arc.
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Jul 5, 2020 03:59
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CuwiKhons posted:I don't see how the level of danger Spinnerella was in is impacted either way by whether the danger is a metaphor for heroin or not. People hiding an addiction from their spouse and then tragically choosing the addiction over their spouse is something that happens all the time. People hiding religion from their spouse and then tragically choosing religion over their spouse is something that never happens. That's separate from the overall fear of "bury your gays" where there was a real concern that visibly queer people were going to be killed on the show. Thankfully, that didn't happen but, hey, re-read the thread. Plenty of people were concerned about that part of it.
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Jul 5, 2020 04:27
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I will admit that cult leaders have little contact with my life. That may be why I don't see "cult leader". Especially if it's just Protestantism. At least make him a snake handler with those wiggly tentacles. But no, Spinny dying because it was heroin would be the same if Spinny died because it was a cult. Spinny tanking her marriage is like addiction and unlike "getting religion". People saying that "bury your gays" is some tumblr poo poo that no one takes seriously as per pentyne posted:Sorry I can't take anyone seriously when they start throwing out tv tropes terms like "bury your gays" What's next, you start citing scenes as "crowning moment of awesome"? In case you have pentyne on ignore I've avoided direct quoting them to avoid any attention it may bring. Edit: Also, we don't know the clones. Who cares? We know Catra. For me she is one of the emotional cores of the show. In terms of character importance you've basically got: Adora>Catra>Anti-Best Friend Squad (let's face it, Scorpia is the best)>Best Friend Squad (great folks but aside from Glimmer's queen arc there isn't a whole lot of meat here)>every other named character (Spinny and Netty end up here)>unnamed characters (like the clones). Like all shows, it works on a heightened realism. Incelshok Na fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 05:16
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CuwiKhons posted:Ultimately, this is a cartoon. The mind control chips have no parallel to real world scenarios because mind control isn't a real thing. Horde Prime acts like a cult leader because that was the real world reference for villainy that Noelle had. The control chips are still just control chips though, not some twisted metaphor about hiding religion from your friends and family. And the show is poorer for it and it makes me care less about Catra's arc. That's all I'm saying. "choice" verbiage was only used in the context of end-stage addiction. When your partner says, "It's me or the drug" no one is more surprised than than the addict when they hardcore choose the drug. It's not a real choice, you are right, it is an addiction. That's why I am framing it all within the context of addiction? Incelshok Na fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jul 5, 2020 |
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Jul 5, 2020 05:40
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Pththya-lyi posted:I just want to know what Incelshok Na thinks Protestantism is An insane death cult where people pour water on themselves and never feel shame for anything because everything they do is OK'd by their obscene god?
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Jul 5, 2020 05:43
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CuwiKhons posted:Okay I think your problem is that you have a severe issue with religion and this probably isn't the thread for it. I'm a Jewish atheist (not a contradiction, believe it or not) and even I think you're getting a little weird here. Christianity, even the worst parts of it in America, is a lot more complicated than 'death cult'. I'm a cradle atheist who grew up in a jewish neighborhood. Christianity isn't more complicated than that in America. Look at Trump. His #1 biggest fans are Protestants. That's just how it is. It's also why making them some kind of a big bad is stupid. They are plenty evil on their own and if you, as a parent, aren't educating your kids to avoid that sort of poo poo then well, what kind of a parent are you? Showrunners working their trauma out is de rigueur but boring and also alien to most modern people. Heroin and addiction in general, on the other hand, is having quite the moment. "Your friends might become addicts, they are worthy of love and compassion but also be careful around them because they will absolutely place their addiction first" is a good message. "Your friends might become Protestants and try to kill you and themselves" is something that doesn't really need to be said.
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Jul 5, 2020 05:58
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Sorry about your uncle. I'm not sure how baptism plays into that but I don't know anything about Scientology. That does make the show even more Hollywood and even less interesting though. Real failure to stick the landing in retrospect. I'm sad I posted, this thread made me like the show a lot less.
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Jul 5, 2020 06:18
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Cattail Prophet posted:You're using Protestant when you mean Evangelical. Distinction without a difference.
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Jul 5, 2020 07:37
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From the start, Catra's feeling for Adora were *extremely* clear. Adora's obliviousness was also extremely clear. That's part of the dramatic irony. Catra keeps saying, "I love you and feel rejected!" and Adore keeps saying, "But the Horde is evil!" They keep talking past each other and it's a fun tension that drives the show. I don't understand how one could watch the show and enjoy it without that component. The communist horse pulls a lot of weight but he's not in it often enough to really count. Otherwise it's just a well done children's show and I don't see threads for Pororo or Daniel Tiger on SA though both are excellent in their own way for children.
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Sep 4, 2020 03:39
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I think it is funny that one of the most emotionally grounded characters on the show has a neurological disorder that makes emotional connections challenging. She was even the first one to express their feelings for their partner. 
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Sep 16, 2020 17:24
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