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Tribladeofchaos
Jul 2, 2008

IT'S SHOWTIME!

SEED not fitting is even weirder considering most of the other shows sort of mesh well. Like Layzner, Tekkaman Blade and Nadesico worked really well together, even with Voltes V since it also ties into "My family is my enemy".

It's probably not true but it kind of feels like SEED got sort of shoved right in there because it was popular like when it appeared in Alpha 3.

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drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine
SEED only really works in a SRW context if it's the only Gundam in it's setting, indeed it pretty much has to be the only Real Robot series in it, and any Super Robot series sharing a setting with it better be able to gel with SEED's technobabble

Basically it becomes obvious why original SEED only got used 3 times and why Destiny is often post series, it fits terribly in SRW scenarios

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Tribladeofchaos posted:

SEED not fitting is even weirder considering most of the other shows sort of mesh well. Like Layzner, Tekkaman Blade and Nadesico worked really well together, even with Voltes V since it also ties into "My family is my enemy".

It's probably not true but it kind of feels like SEED got sort of shoved right in there because it was popular like when it appeared in Alpha 3.

Probably was the case actually, remember J came out only a couple months after Alpha 3

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST
Same reason why the OYW is actually really difficult to use in a SRW.

Or at least it used to be. Nowadays there are 500 different prototype Gundams being developed in secret at the same time, what's a couple dozen more.

AradoBalanga
Jan 3, 2013

drrockso20 posted:

SEED only really works in a SRW context if it's the only Gundam in it's setting, indeed it pretty much has to be the only Real Robot series in it, and any Super Robot series sharing a setting with it better be able to gel with SEED's technobabble

Basically it becomes obvious why original SEED only got used 3 times and why Destiny is often post series, it fits terribly in SRW scenarios
A big sticking point are the Neutron Jammers. W is the only entry that makes a big deal out of the effect the Neutron Jammers have on the planet, and that's the game where SEED is there to look pretty while Astray gets the spotlight. There's a whole discussion at the start of the second half of the game where the Photon and Saotome Labs are working together to provide alternate power sources to the world, and how much stress this effort is causing on the respective labratory staff members. It actually gives a bit of weight to the situation and helps cement the global change that has come with W's timeskip. Every other SRW entry with the Cosmic Era sweeps the Neutron Jammers under the rug like they are trash or just doesn't even bother to bring them up (even though Azrael's acquisition of the N-Jammer Cancelers still gets priority billing for plot developments in the games with SEED).

Dre2Dee2
Dec 6, 2006

Just a striding through Kamen Rider...

Pureauthor posted:

Same reason why the OYW is actually really difficult to use in a SRW.

Or at least it used to be. Nowadays there are 500 different prototype Gundams being developed in secret at the same time, what's a couple dozen more.

Wing and G would fit nicely. Gundam fights + Operation Meteor, Devil Gundam is a weapon wanted to be brought under control by OZ. Match made in heaven

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Pureauthor posted:

Same reason why the OYW is actually really difficult to use in a SRW.

Or at least it used to be. Nowadays there are 500 different prototype Gundams being developed in secret at the same time, what's a couple dozen more.

The main thing with OYW Gundam is that you'd want to avoid having anything UC past 0083 in it, and pretty much all AU series as well, as well as avoid any Real Robot series that are blatantly more advanced than it(so stuff like Macross)

So you'd be somewhat limited, but not too much so if you get creative

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

drrockso20 posted:

The main thing with OYW Gundam is that you'd want to avoid having anything UC past 0083 in it, and pretty much all AU series as well, as well as avoid any Real Robot series that are blatantly more advanced than it(so stuff like Macross)

So you'd be somewhat limited, but not too much so if you get creative

It wouldn't be that tough.

Use the OYW Gundam series (MSG, 08th MS Team, Thunderbolt, War in the Pocket), then fill in the cast with Real Robot shows like Full Metal Panic!, Patlabor, and VOTOMS.

You could also add in Tekkaman Blade, Fafnir in the Azure or Dunbine pretty easily.

If you could figure out some way to have a OYW story and Xabungle at the same time you could also slot them in :v:

Zore fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Nov 27, 2018

drrockso20
May 6, 2013

Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Zore posted:

It wouldn't be that tough.

Use the OYW Gundam series (MSG, 08th MS Team, Thunderbolt, War in the Pocket), then fill in the cast with Real Robot shows like Full Metal Panic!, Patlabor, and VOTOMS.

You could also add in Tekkaman Blade, Fafnir in the Azure or Dunbine pretty easily.

If you could figure out some way to have a OYW story and Xabungle at the same time you could also slot them in :v:

Personally I feel instead it would make more sense to only have a couple other Real Robot series besides the OYW era Gundams, and instead have the roster be Super Robot dominant outside of Gundam

Unless said Real Robots are magical and/or alien/other dimensional in origin that is

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

drrockso20 posted:

Personally I feel instead it would make more sense to only have a couple other Real Robot series besides the OYW era Gundams, and instead have the roster be Super Robot dominant outside of Gundam

Unless said Real Robots are magical and/or alien/other dimensional in origin that is

Super Robots are fine because ya know, Super Robot Wars, the entire point is mass production capability. You can't make a billion Mazinger. It's expensive, you need a very specific person to pilot it, even if you could, it's civilian-owned, and Dr. Hell getting his hands on Photon Energy is enough of a risk to NOT put it in everything.

You just gotta make the Gundam's animations more impactful, make the beam rifle like the way Shin Mazinger made the Photon Beam, this huge burst of energy that shakes the atmosphere.

1st Stage Midboss
Oct 29, 2011

Honestly, Gundam could fit in with other, fancier real robots just by sticking it with the niche that Mobile Suits are real good in space.

Mercury Crusader
Apr 20, 2005

You know they say that all demons are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Pyro Jack and you can see that statement is not true, hee-ho!
When was the last time OYW shows up in a SRW game? Operation Extend? And even then, they're mashing in CCA and almost everything leading up to it because I guess people would be upset if Amuro didn't get the Nu Gundam at some point.

Personally, I'd like to see them try and do the OYW without having to hit Zeta and later at some point or incorporate an AU Gundam series, but it'd be difficult to convince people that it would be impressive or whatever. Maybe do a "beam weapons matter" thing, I dunno. When was the last time having the "beam" property on a weapon actually mattered?

Hunter Noventa
Apr 21, 2010

Mercury Crusader posted:

When was the last time OYW shows up in a SRW game? Operation Extend? And even then, they're mashing in CCA and almost everything leading up to it because I guess people would be upset if Amuro didn't get the Nu Gundam at some point.

Personally, I'd like to see them try and do the OYW without having to hit Zeta and later at some point or incorporate an AU Gundam series, but it'd be difficult to convince people that it would be impressive or whatever. Maybe do a "beam weapons matter" thing, I dunno. When was the last time having the "beam" property on a weapon actually mattered?

Pretty sure Moon Dwellers had an ability combo to reduce beam damage or something...but that's really it.

EthanSteele
Nov 18, 2007

I can hear you
Beams matter in OGs because water stages exist and a bunch of the mechs have Beam Coats so they reduce only beam damage. Well, that and Shu and Volkruss' Beam Absorb because those guys are rude. The only time it matters in regular titles is the SEED armour reducing everything except beams, when you get to put Sandrock in a puddle and the occasional I-Field.

And yeah, they could make the Gundam feel super powerful like with Shin Mazinger's photon beam. OYW stuff, Votoms, FMP and then like Patlabor/Layzner hanging out could work for the real series side of things.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
Code Geass S1 would work with the OYW too I'd say. R2, not so much, but.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

If we do a OYW game we could finally have a reason to debut Argevollen.

Endorph posted:

Code Geass S1 would work with the OYW too I'd say. R2, not so much, but.
If they do a sequel with Zeta and such, maybe they do could Akito and R2 there?

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.
Do a new trilogy based on multiple generations (That is, we follow an OG family through three generations).

First one has OYW and things that fit that.
Second one has Mid-UC from Zeta to Char's Counter-Attack.
Third and last one has Late UC from Unicorn to Victory (and maybe Gaia Gear or G-Saviour).

There's a lot of shows that work with that set-up too.

KoB
May 1, 2009
https://www.dualshockers.com/super-robot-wars-t-gets-new-details-on-story-series-list-explanation/

quote:

As said on stream, a lot of effort is required to make G Gundam and GaoGaiGar units look good, so they usually never appear together. They put in both this time because they managed to handle that problem, and also because both shows are very popular outside Japan.

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014

MonsieurChoc posted:

Do a new trilogy based on multiple generations (That is, we follow an OG family through three generations).

First one has OYW and things that fit that.
Second one has Mid-UC from Zeta to Char's Counter-Attack.
Third and last one has Late UC from Unicorn to Victory (and maybe Gaia Gear or G-Saviour).

There's a lot of shows that work with that set-up too.
I almost think it could be four games.

OYW
0083/Zeta/ZZ/CCA
Unicorn/F91/Crossbone/Victory
Turn-A/G-Reco/(Maybe Gaia Gear too? Idk much about it)

Tbh I wish we somehow tie it into Age to do that whole story too (And to "fix it"), with maybe Gen 1 starting in the Zeta era.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009
Yeah, looking at this game it really does feel targeted at western fans. Especially with Bebop.

Could have tossed Big O in there for even more western pandering though.

Tribladeofchaos
Jul 2, 2008

IT'S SHOWTIME!


Oh poo poo we’re actually being pandered to! Makes me sad japan doesn’t seem to care about GGG though, and I remember G Gundam is usually at the bottom of popularity polls there.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink

MonsieurChoc posted:

There's a lot of shows that work with that set-up too.

Excited to see Gundam Age once more.

Dre2Dee2
Dec 6, 2006

Just a striding through Kamen Rider...
Have to pander to overseas since video game sales are worse every un Japan, arent they? How the gently caress do they not like GGG, ya tasteless bastards

Also PLEEAAAASE give us a Hell and Heaven Burning Finger duo attack :allears:

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Is it like common Mecha knowledge that Japan dislikes GGG or something? Because I can’t see that in the article.

Justin_Brett
Oct 23, 2012

GAMERDOME put down LOSER
Dragonar would work in a OYW game too wouldn't it?

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Justin_Brett posted:

Dragonar would work in a OYW game too wouldn't it?

I think it probably works better in Zeta era just for all the flight tech

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

SyntheticPolygon posted:

Is it like common Mecha knowledge that Japan dislikes GGG or something? Because I can’t see that in the article.
Japan doesn't like, utterly hate GaoGaiGar or something. It was just never very popular over there, while it gained a cult following in the west due to the fact that it was the first of the Brave series to get fansubbed and a lot of back-and-forth hype on 4chan. For a lot of people in the west it was the first real super robot anime they watched, sort of like a proto Gurren Lagann. Or the first super robot anime they watched after Gurren Lagann.

It doesn't really have that legacy in Japan, it's just another Super Robot anime and the only real noteworthy thing about it is being the last of the Brave series, but the Brave series was never jaw-droppingly successful. GaoGaiGar's known enough to get shoutouts and merchandise sometimes, but it's not something that even an average mecha fan would have much memory of, you'd have to be pretty deep in (or pretty old) to be into it.

Daler Mehndi
Apr 10, 2005

Tunak Tunak Tun!

SyntheticPolygon posted:

Is it like common Mecha knowledge that Japan dislikes GGG or something? Because I can’t see that in the article.
As you suggest, it's probably a matter of GaoGaiGar being more popular outside Japan instead of Japan outright disliking it. Every once in a while I'll see a reference to it, or a reference to related robots, in Japanese media, so I'm sure it has its fans over there.

Droyer
Oct 9, 2012

It's worth noting that GGG got a sequel OVA, a spinoff TV anime and in more recent years a series of sequel novels so presumably it had some level of success in Japan.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy
I really cannot imagine English speaking overseas sales are still much of anything in the grand scheme of things? I still find this direction really strange if it's really targeting the west.

Supremezero
Apr 28, 2013

hay gurl

AradoBalanga posted:

Not that I can recall. J is basically "Here's the Cosmic Era plus some new series, but with very little effort to create cohesion between the featured series outside of a few spots". It gets even more :psyduck: when you recall that SEED puts a big emphasis on nuclear power being kneecapped, but the G-Gundam cast (whose Gundams are powered by nuclear reactors) can fly around perfectly fine without being affected by the Neutron Jammers. Which gives a boost to a theory about SEED's tech I've come across; the jammers only affect nuclear fission, but do gently caress all to prevent nuclear fusion (aka, the usual reactor power source for most Gundam series). Then again, the show's staff have allegedly deflected questions related to explaining how in-universe technology works, so...yeah, it doesn't surprise me that SEED has inconsistent technobabble.

Also Burrstone of the Mountain from Zeorymer exists in it, the robot who's weapon is literally firing a bunch of nukes at you.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Tribladeofchaos posted:

Oh poo poo we’re actually being pandered to! Makes me sad japan doesn’t seem to care about GGG though, and I remember G Gundam is usually at the bottom of popularity polls there.

Nowhere close to the bottom. The recent big Gundam poll had it in eighth, between Wing and Unicorn. Several characters and suit designs also made their lists, including Master Asia as the 13th most popular character. While it's not at Zeta or SEED levels of popularity, there's a lot of love for it around. Probably more then when it first came out in a lot of ways, since now it can be the fun oddball of the franchise, instead of making people worry that the grim war setting are gone for good in favor of more super robot stuff.

The bottom of the poll is Igloo 2: The Gravity Front, but AGE, Try, and G-Reco are also down there. If you want to see a real gap in reception, though, you can look at Thunderbolt.

US Gundam discussions tend to like it a lot, while in the Japanese rankings, it's down below double Zeta and the TV cut of Unicorn.

Getsuya
Oct 2, 2013
Jesus. I can’t imagine the kind of fury you’d get telling a Western Gundam fan that Turn A is only one slot above Destiny.

Wtf are you doing down there Best Gundam Ever AKA Build Fighters?

Edit: I remember a smug Gundam fan telling me this stupid urban legend about the Seed/Destiny staff begging Tomino to help with the plot only for him to say ‘Go watch Turn A’ :smug:

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE

Rascyc posted:

I really cannot imagine English speaking overseas sales are still much of anything in the grand scheme of things? I still find this direction really strange if it's really targeting the west.

I mean, they're paying for English localization for the third year in a row (I have to assume MD was localized on the dirt cheap, if not somehow in-house, but I'd be surprised if T went back to that after all this). It may not be a lot, but neither is SRW in general - foreign sales are at least pulling enough weight to justify themselves.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Getsuya posted:

Jesus. I can’t imagine the kind of fury you’d get telling a Western Gundam fan that Turn A is only one slot above Destiny.

Wtf are you doing down there Best Gundam Ever AKA Build Fighters?

Edit: I remember a smug Gundam fan telling me this stupid urban legend about the Seed/Destiny staff begging Tomino to help with the plot only for him to say ‘Go watch Turn A’ :smug:

That does sound stupid. Especially considering how things stood at the time. Turn A wasn't Gundam's biggest flop ever, but it wasn't exactly a smash success. Meanwhile, SEED was a big enough success that the rumors say Bandai was considering having it replace the UC as the main Gundam setting, and Destiny drew record ratings early on.

I mean, I like seeing Anno poo poo-talk SEED in the intro to The Origin as much as the next guy, but facts are facts.

(Also, that doesn't sound much like Tomino anyway, considering how self-effacing he tends to be in interviews.)

Getsuya
Oct 2, 2013
The only other urban legend I heard about Gundam was some crazed Japanese fan tried to run Tomino down with a moped screaming 'JETSTREAM ATTACK!' due to some dumb minute change made to the Z movies or something.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

chiasaur11 posted:

Nowhere close to the bottom. The recent big Gundam poll had it in eighth, between Wing and Unicorn. Several characters and suit designs also made their lists, including Master Asia as the 13th most popular character. While it's not at Zeta or SEED levels of popularity, there's a lot of love for it around. Probably more then when it first came out in a lot of ways, since now it can be the fun oddball of the franchise, instead of making people worry that the grim war setting are gone for good in favor of more super robot stuff.

The bottom of the poll is Igloo 2: The Gravity Front, but AGE, Try, and G-Reco are also down there. If you want to see a real gap in reception, though, you can look at Thunderbolt.

US Gundam discussions tend to like it a lot, while in the Japanese rankings, it's down below double Zeta and the TV cut of Unicorn.

I remember reading G-Reco was popular with kids and grandmas instead of "normal" Gundam fans.

Tribladeofchaos
Jul 2, 2008

IT'S SHOWTIME!

chiasaur11 posted:

Nowhere close to the bottom. The recent big Gundam poll had it in eighth, between Wing and Unicorn. Several characters and suit designs also made their lists, including Master Asia as the 13th most popular character. While it's not at Zeta or SEED levels of popularity, there's a lot of love for it around. Probably more then when it first came out in a lot of ways, since now it can be the fun oddball of the franchise, instead of making people worry that the grim war setting are gone for good in favor of more super robot stuff.

The bottom of the poll is Igloo 2: The Gravity Front, but AGE, Try, and G-Reco are also down there. If you want to see a real gap in reception, though, you can look at Thunderbolt.

US Gundam discussions tend to like it a lot, while in the Japanese rankings, it's down below double Zeta and the TV cut of Unicorn.

Good point, the last time i checked was before AGE came out and it was hovering pretty low. At least both western and japanese fans can agree AGE is horrible.

KoB
May 1, 2009

Rascyc posted:

I really cannot imagine English speaking overseas sales are still much of anything in the grand scheme of things? I still find this direction really strange if it's really targeting the west.

even in the best years SRW was only selling like 3-400,000 copies (excluding the PS2 era). Its a niche of a niche in a small country. Bamco has had a ton of success bringing over niche titles in other series and I bet its successful here as well. Even an additional 100k would be loving huge for SRW.

hitting Asia/Europe/US would target at least the hard core fans in those areas and having the games actually be in english brings in those non-crazies who wouldnt drop money on a game they cant read.

even here on our dying goof forum we occasionally get people coming in here curious because theyre finally kind of available for regular people.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Getsuya posted:

The only other urban legend I heard about Gundam was some crazed Japanese fan tried to run Tomino down with a moped screaming 'JETSTREAM ATTACK!' due to some dumb minute change made to the Z movies or something.
that only makes sense if his moped was hiding the two other mopeds behind him

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