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Max
Nov 30, 2002



I will sign up but know I refuse to take this game seriously.

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Max
Nov 30, 2002



Actually, no, I won't have time for this.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Max
Nov 30, 2002



Max
Nov 30, 2002



##vote pera

Max
Nov 30, 2002



##vote pera

Max
Nov 30, 2002



https://imgur.com/a/UMuW8mz

Max
Nov 30, 2002



https://imgur.com/a/gtgLwm6

Max
Nov 30, 2002



I don't like to gamble, thank you.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



peramene posted:

##vote sal

I really wanted to know too, so thanks for testing it, and so seriously too.

gonna be a real short day folks.

Wanted to know what?

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Excuse me?

Max
Nov 30, 2002



It should be painfully obvious what my role is.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



pera
pera
pera

Max
Nov 30, 2002



No.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Murmur Twin posted:

Sal - what was your thought process when you posted this?


Are you sure you don't like gambling? You seem like someone who'd enjoy rollin' bones.

Nah just smoking pipe weed and hanging with the god of horses.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Bifauxnen posted:

Hmm... Sal answered my other questions so quickly.

It makes more sense for people to ignore me, though!


But maybe I should do this anyway.

##vote Sal


Bad.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Hello.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



King Burgundy posted:



Hi Max. I asked questions. Did you see them?



No.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Apologies, it was a busy day at work, and I am now here, and free to not just do check bs posts.

King Burgundy posted:

[spoiler]
Compiling answers so far and a couple other comments/questions:

max: pera, bif

---So still ideally need reads from Max(you are part of this game now right? Have you been reading and keeping up with it? Scum picks?)

I am in fact part of the game now. I had intended to follow along but that kind of dropped off fairly quickly and I had this game on ignore for a while, so I'm taking tonight to read back through the pile.

Immediate things that popped out to me based on mostly today and some skimming

Has pera actually posted opinions on people, aside from saying I am somehow responsible for someone's kill? Solus? was scum so, OK.

Feels like MMT's town game, ez call.

This strikes me as Sal's town game as well, and given that it was apparently him or b- last night and b- flipped scum, that puts him in my leaning town column, along with Nat20, as loath as I am to admit that.

And now I'm going to crack open a beer and follow along. Ask questions as you see fit.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Kitiara posted:

Can you please answer these questions too? You guys signed up to this game, can you please play it?

I have literally only joined this game today.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Some more ruminations:

Re-reading Solus, the biggest thing he does is throw out a vote for b-, who was his scum bud. Cool and good. I'll have to actually read through day 1 to see who else actually interacted with him.

b-: More stuff there at least

b-minus1 posted:



Fuckin lol. So you guys are definitely scumbos right

b- throwing this out there reads as real pushing, not fake scum-busing. Good for bif.

b-minus1 posted:

Oh now you don't think I watched pod? why would you think that. it must be because you visited pod last night. am i right?

His aggressiveness with KB doesn't look forced either.

The further along b- got into the day the more it looked like he was scrambling with that claim, his posting looks very reactive.

b-minus1 posted:

Lol nat and Yami

If you go back to the start of d2 it should be obvious what I was trying to do

Which also makes me think that posts like this are informative. I don't think he'd be yelling at his scum buds like this.

b-minus1 posted:

nat20's posts were scummy af earlier. he showed up, tried to put more suspicion on me by accusing me of lying about my role, then disappeared.
jimmy, humalong, rhjamiz, basically no content. just driveby posts.


i think sal is town and don't want to vote him.

Couple things here Nat20 comes up again, but the way b- has already interacted with nat20 makes me think they aren't aligned with each other, so that looks fake.

I saw him make zero mention of jimmy, humalong, or fhjamiz earlier. I can see him soft bussing some of his buddies there.

Not sure what to make of the sal comment, but I'm leaning on my feeling that this looks like town sal, given that he literally just did a similar thing in Jimmy Mafia where he did a one-shot and then immediately claimed it at town.

When I have a fresher brain I'll go back and look at who b- didn't really interact with. That's just what jumped out at me.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Kitiara posted:

I appreciate your response and look forward to your further contributions. So can you confirm that you did not make the Solus kill? Given that no one is raising their hands saying that they've killed scum, I will assume that Solus killed himself with some role shenanigans.

I understand the frustration.

I haven't had anything to do with this game until today, so no, I didn't kill Solus. If no one has claimed it, then yeah, that's probably an SK.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Max posted:

Couple things here Nat20 comes up again, but the way b- has already interacted with nat20 makes me think they aren't aligned with each other, so that looks fake.

Should read: that looks like a fake case that he was trying to actually push, not a scum bus.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



I was about to post about how Jimmy was one of the early tie breaker votes but he removed himself from the game, missed that.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



In that case, the vote remained pretty tied up, and a few votes went Sal's way before things swung over to b-

I'm looking at these two in particular.

chaoslord posted:

ďIíve been playing a super scummy game, why does anyone think Iím not town?Ē - Sal, probably

##vote sal

Kitiara posted:

Alright. I just woke up, got to work and caught up.

We have to remember that it's only D2 and we don't really have *that* much to go on. So we have to set for whomever we think is most scummy. I have suspicions on Rhj, Jimmy and yammi (in that order). But I don't really have anything solid on those last 3; whereas, I really feel like there's something to B- and Sal.

Basically due to the arguments underlined by other people before me.

I am suspicious of Sal because he claimed that he didn't go creative on his role. But then his role is the opposite of un-creative (if you want to see un-creative, wait until you see my flip). The role happened to be too convenient with both his brother and the killer dying on the same day. And there was that pera/pod thing that with the masonry information seems a bit coincidental. Two coincidences in a row and add in some scummy posting/neglecting on calling out people = a vote for D2.

##vote Sal

As same as with Day 1, if B- is lying we would be able to catch him a lot easier than if Sal is lying. Additionally, if B- isn't lying then his role a lot more useful than Sal's.

With that said, Sal's defensiveness reminds me of how he was behaving in Gradschool when Jimmy (my scum bro on that game) was screwing up and I'm still carrying guilt about it. So I would be okay with lynching B- first and then find a way of egging Sal's house if he's lying.

I'm warming up to Kit's overly explicative reasons for voting for someone, so I won't call that out this game, but either way, worth looking at those two.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



OK, beer o'clock.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Lol.

Good morning

##unvote

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Murmur Twin posted:

Calling a quick time out: can we please try and keep this game on a friendly vibe?

I think youíre scum in-game but youíre also my friend out-of-game, those two things shouldnít affect each other

Echoing this. Lets all take a step back for a moment.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Sal, outside of KB, what else have you found suspicious today?

Max
Nov 30, 2002



KB, a lot of your posting completely and utterly assumes that Sal is flipping scum. What changes, in your mind, if he flips town instead?

Max
Nov 30, 2002



King Burgundy posted:

Maybe Max will do a vote analysis for us tomorrow? I know he's capable and he may be willing.

I'll do this once I've had some caffein and I can grab a free moment. I think it's worth looking back at all that to see how the votes started coming in.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Yes it's a good thought experiment I've tried with people that are tunneling hard on a single person.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



SalTheBard posted:

Scum read I posted earlier will answer that question

I saw kit, I was wondering if there was anything else.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



SalTheBard posted:

He gets to say "Oops lol my bad look at ScumTheBard making me think he was all scummy and poo poo let's move onto the next town target!"

OK

Unless someone has a result that clears Sal, I think it's going to be better to lunch him today since, as MMT said, everyone has commented on him at this point.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



OK here is something we can all chew on right now as well. I am absolutely not going to comment on every single vote, but it is worth it to go through this and see what was happening. I'm starting with where the train picked up, in my mind, with the sal v. b- vote.

King Burgundy posted:

Agreed. If he ever becomes part of the game, he's near the top of my list.

---

Speaking of top of my list though, I've been getting some scum vibes from Sal. This doesn't feel like his town game.

##vote Sal


Now that Yami has started posting maybe Sal will come back and wow me though.

Pressure vote.

Bifauxnen posted:

What a strong effort, Yami-san! I'm feeling a little better about you now.

I have similar feelings to you and KB about Sal, so I wouldn't mind at all if we focused there instead for today.

##vote Sal



Isn't this strange, though. You're feeling even better about Nat from his recent posts? Maybe it's because I can only work up vague suspicions on so many people. The rest of you must be so much more confident.

But I didn't get that feeling from Nat-kun... if his only suspicions worth mentioning are Yami and b-minus, and the b-minus one looks especially questionable today... rather than confidence, it feels a bit ominous, doesn't it? Like perhaps he's holding back, not able to freely offer more thoughts.


Pressure Vote

peramene posted:



##vote salthebard
A vote, reacting to Sal's capitalization presumably


No surprise here

SalTheBard posted:



Can't help how I feel.

##unvote


Yami Fenrir posted:

Continuation of thoughts:

Pera hasn't really been contributing much from what I can tell, as was pointed out previously

I don't know if its their meta or whatever, as I barely played with them.

But the fact remains that they barely contributed.

##vote peramene

Some content to go with the commentary, please?

This is an interesting vote, it's one of the few votes during this time that goes against the sal / b- grain. I haven't seen much from Yami this game day, so I'd want more from them on the current situation, but worth keeping this vote in mind going forward.

Murmur Twin posted:

I feel like if Sal were town, the natural assumption here would be that KB is scum trying to drive a mislynch on him. The fact that he bypasses that train of thought and goes with "I'm not sure why" followed by talking about how being cased made him feel (instead of being suspicious of it) screams scum mindset to me.

##vote Sal

This vote comes before Nat20 makes his case in defense of Sal, so I get what MMT is saying here but it assumes absolute logic on Sal's part, and not the emotional play that he usually displays.

Rhjamiz posted:

ugh. loving phones.

##vote b-minus1


First one on b-

b-minus1 posted:

You seem awfully interested in the identity of the other person that visited pod. I wonder why

Hereís a read. Youíre scum. ##vote kb

b- very much wants KB dead, and will continue this refrain for the rest of the day.

SalTheBard posted:

I'm going to go with B- here since it seems like my only avenue of getting it of this day alive and ##vote kb

I'm not going to change it unless something damming comes out.

If sal flips scum, we can look back at this and probably surmise that the scum team thinks KB is an SK at this moment. Had it come out yet that he was deathproof on Day 2?


Natural 20 posted:

##vote b-minus

Main reason is that there was really no need to lie about the role itself early on.


Minus notes this, stating that there would be much crazier roles than his own. So why the need for the cloak and dagger around what his role was to begin with? It's not that strong relative to what we've seen from others.

There's a chance that I'm going to be rused because of an Infinitum moment from Minus, but I just don't buy that town Minus would care to lie about his role.

Another early vote on b-.

Yami Fenrir posted:

After collecting my thoughts, the people I'd be willing to vote today would be B- and Sal, in that order.

For B-, the extreme wishy-washyness around their watch targets was rather suspicious. We now know that it was due to a gambit - or at least, so b- claims.

However, their entire dialog with KB just reeks even beyond the gambit. First off, why would a townie NOT be interested in a claimed watcher stating they saw the people who visited a dead person?


This post is just so that I don't understand. B- gets a scumread on KB, because KB is... pushing a watcher (as far as he knows) that refuses to claim the visiting people to someone who was killed that night? Arriving on a scum read on a person because of that seems like serious mental gymnastics.

Considering how 'certain' B- seems to be that KB is scum, especially with posts like this sniping at tiny 'weak points':


It really feels to me that B- started with a "KB is scum" narrative and went backwards from there. I seriously do not grasp how someone can see KB as scum for asking for the people that visited a dead guy, unless they WANT KB to be scum.

##vote b-minus1

---

As for Sal:

I don't like how quickly they just gave up. I already said some things on Sal earlier, but I'm not really happy how that particular dialog evolved. It took Sal FOREVER to come up with something resembling scum reads, plus there's the whole contradiction regarding him reading KB as scum, that KB pointed out earlier as well.


This comment comes over to me as deflective, in a similar vein as B- own "Look at KB not voting me!" post. It's also strangely aggressive of a post considering how mopey and deflated the rest of his post history seemed in comparison, in my opinion.

Yami gets with the popular crowd but doesn't break for Sal, and instead goes for b-.

SalTheBard posted:

##vote B-

I'll see you guys in 10 1/2 hours

probably a survival vote.

peramene posted:




with it being asiina and with asiina's hatred of fun tomfoolery, I lean towards this being a hard & fast rule, but tbqh, I feel like... if someone were to specifically ask for 3p... they would get it. maybe with some risk of being shoved into town or scum wincon but like... this is about as cocoa for kookiepuffs as she gets, so maybe

oh, and hey, we do indeed have one claimed 3p so liek


the only way this makes sense is if, say, someone selected a serial killer or horror movie villain as their flavour character, then described the role themselves as 'serial killer', which YET AGAIN motherfucker such a good idea for fun and fiascos

speaking of fiascos, ##unvote


why


that sounds like a hypothetical epicmafia style scum setup and in a game where literally everybody has to be some kind of peculiar power role, if I were asiina (and thank lord & lady i'm not) and I were to say, HMMM, give in to the urge to fudge the teams. . . this would be a reasonable pick, right? ignoring the 3p implications of an sk an all

I don't understand why this happened.

SalTheBard posted:

Scum team I'm imploring you to just go ahead and hammer me.

##vote Sal

Making it easier for you. I'm just so Goddamn mother loving frustrated right now with town.


chaoslord posted:

ďIíve been playing a super scummy game, why does anyone think Iím not town?Ē - Sal, probably

##vote sal

I pointed this one out before. Given b-'s flip, I'm not a fan of this vote

Kitiara posted:

Alright. I just woke up, got to work and caught up.

We have to remember that it's only D2 and we don't really have *that* much to go on. So we have to set for whomever we think is most scummy. I have suspicions on Rhj, Jimmy and yammi (in that order). But I don't really have anything solid on those last 3; whereas, I really feel like there's something to B- and Sal.

Basically due to the arguments underlined by other people before me.

I am suspicious of Sal because he claimed that he didn't go creative on his role. But then his role is the opposite of un-creative (if you want to see un-creative, wait until you see my flip). The role happened to be too convenient with both his brother and the killer dying on the same day. And there was that pera/pod thing that with the masonry information seems a bit coincidental. Two coincidences in a row and add in some scummy posting/neglecting on calling out people = a vote for D2.

##vote Sal

As same as with Day 1, if B- is lying we would be able to catch him a lot easier than if Sal is lying. Additionally, if B- isn't lying then his role a lot more useful than Sal's.

With that said, Sal's defensiveness reminds me of how he was behaving in Gradschool when Jimmy (my scum bro on that game) was screwing up and I'm still carrying guilt about it. So I would be okay with lynching B- first and then find a way of egging Sal's house if he's lying.

Same with this one.

SalTheBard posted:

You are like the 2nd or 3rd person that's said "Would vote B-" but then votes for me. If you are ok with killing B- first commit to B-

Here is how you commit:

I think B- it's scum and I would beer ok voting B-

##vote B-

Survival vote

SalTheBard posted:

B- if you aren't voting me, I won't vote you.

##vote kb

If you let KB live today and he's scum and scum wins you have nobody to blame but yourselves. See you at deadline.

Again, curious.

jimmydalad posted:

If I do need to choose between the two, I feel like Sal is playing an emotional town game. Though some of the stuff is raising my eyebrows, I feel like I want to trust his emotional-ness, which I know is slightly hilarious coming from the person that did the Grad School Mafia thing.

I feel more comfortable ##vote b-

It's unfortunate jimmy left because I think this was the pivotal vote.

King Burgundy posted:

Hmmm.

Ok, this is convincing. I'll give it a day for more things to come to light.

##vote Bminus

Here is where the levee breaks and votes rain down upon b-

Murmur Twin posted:

Actually I kinda agree.

##vote b-minus

Another one

Kitiara posted:

This is fair, but like I said I was mostly basing it on the fact that B- had a. a more useful role to town and b. a role we could verify.

I do feel like Sal has put in more effort in declaring his townie-ness than B-, who has kind of given up. I also gave B- a pass D1 due to his role (which didn't clear him today) and he also refuses to give any reads on scum. So:

##vote B-

Final Hammer.

Gonna post my thoughts in a different post.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



I see what KB is saying about the way b- and Sal were interacting with each other, and I'd be a lot happier to believe that this was a scum v scum vote if b- and Sal were going for each other's jugular. That they both jumped on and off of each other and pushed for KB at one point gives me pause. Either Sal has such a super awesome role that b- simply could not let that one go, or this day has been exactly what b- wanted to happen with him saying that he won't vote Sal, and we're just playing right into his hands.

I don't know that you could claim scum were controlling that vote the other day, because reading it is unclear who is going to be the lunch between sal and b-. The situation feels too chaotic and reactive to imagine scum trying to really control that vote.

At this point, it will be really useful to flip Sal because it can inform some of the early votes that came in on b-. Where they alternative votes for someone people found more scummy (Let's be real, b-'s claim and scrambling around that topic was bad.) or were they votes meant to push things off of Sal because he is actually scum and has a super awesome power.

I think there is no way in high heaven that KB is scum with b-. Someone will have to remind me when exactly his death proof claim came out.

Other things to tldr and look back on if we flip Sal today: pera's unvote and disappearing act, Yami voting for pera, Clord and Kit's vote on Sal around the mid point of the votes before things became clear that it was definitely going to be b-.

Apologies for any mistakes, it was hard to sort through the spoiler text.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Murmur Twin posted:

What are your opinions of my other two main arguments? Which again is

1 - he accidentally said something that scum knew, but town didnít (that I was masoníed with pera). If thatís not a scumslip itís a hell of a coincidence

2 - read his d2 and d3 content about his role. Do you think a town Sal has he wherewithal to lie about his role (complete with ďIím so mad I have no vig, which is why Iím checked out a bitĒ) on d2 despite being so frustrated heís self-voting?

Outside of how b- and sal interacted, this is the most cogent argument for a scum Sal that I've seen.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Hey Sal, I know this is frustrating and I've been in your position before, but I'm trying to re-engage with you here. If you have nothing else to add that is fine too.

Max
Nov 30, 2002



Yes I am more talking about the general tone of today.

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Max
Nov 30, 2002



Yeah whatever your feelings on KB, I seriously doubt b- is his scum buddy.

King Burgundy posted:

For one thing, it would help me think Nat20 is for real town instead of being suspicious that something is wrong with the results. That would be a pretty major change.

It would also make me WAY more suspicious of Bif and Chaos, two people who right now I feel very good about due to sharing my opinion.

Thanks!

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