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I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

CommonShore posted:

Silva/Takase
Silva/Chonan

Work or shoot?

Points in favour of work, for both:

1 - Journeyman Japanese underdog wins
2 - Come-from-behind submission
3 - Odd submissions
4 - Silva working but not really looking for kill
5 - Pride
6 - Yakuza

Points in favour of shoot, for both:

1 - Silva seemed genuinely upset by the losses
2 - ???

I haven't watched them for a while, but Fighting in the Age of Loneliness got me thinking about them, and I can't figure out how Silva could possibly go from beating then A-level opponents in Newton and Lee Murray to losing to those dudes like he did.

So - Works or Shoots?

chonan worked (actual work rate.. not wrestling jargon) hard the whole fight .. i think silva just tapped quickly because of the injury risk. it was the most beautiful mma performance ive seen

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I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011
i think i saw footage somewhere of silva crying backstage after the loss too .. or maybe it was chonan crying with joy.. one of them was crying anyway. so there was real emotion

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011
i personally think silva is the best fighter mma has seen since mister gracie first showed everyone how its done, but he has had to work very hard in a lot of his victories .. and it only takes a top 10 guy on a really good day when you're on a mediocre day for them to get the better of you

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

coconono posted:

uh Royce Gracie was terrible at MMA. He only looked good in those early UFCs because they were scams designed to make him rich. Gracie wagered(correctly) that given a field of wannabe ninjas and assorted striking disciplines, he could wrap them up and choke them out because they'd be expecting some bushido bullshit arm punching or whatever. Severn got into the mix because Gracie figured if he could handle Ken Shamrock, then Severn shouldn't be much of an issue.

Once dudes started figuring out how to properly fight multilevel fights, the advantages grapplers enjoyed in the early UFCs started to slip.

IMO dudes like Ken Shamrock or Guy Mezger were much better proto-MMA fighters since they could strike and grapple, which put them ahead of the game when most of the competitors could one well and sorta knew about the other.

i never accused royce gracie of being good at mma.. and well thats really a bit like saying the ancient greeks were poo poo at medicine. i wouldnt want them in charge of my healthcare but they provided the foundation for modern medicine. the gracies opened the door for everybody else, not least by providing cheap grappling schools for the brazillians

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

am0kgonzo posted:

I wonder if it's money or just not being able to not fight/train.

i doubt its money. he has been really successful in rizin .. if you ask me, you might as well do something interesting with your time while you're still alive. lots of athletes compete past their peak, some even go into the amateur or masters ranks to do it purely as a hobby

I.N.R.I fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Dec 6, 2018

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

Veni Vidi Ameche! posted:

A Masters circuit would be cool. In reality, they send these aging lions in to be smashed by powerful young up-and-comers. I mean, not in the Roy Nelson case, but in general. It’d be good if we had a division just for fading legends, so they could continue competing without being used as resume padding for rising stars.

i agree .. everyone made fun of vitor for suggesting it but most sports have masters brackets. i think people will watch it for one reason or another

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011
its a fine line between exhibition matches and match fixing .. in cycling there is the saitama criterium, a japanese road race with predetermined winners, usually the world champion and the years tour de france winner take the first two spots, and then a popular japanese rider finishes third. there's also the keirin which is gambled on but also heavily fixed. on the other hand in sumo match fixing is a huge scandal whenever it happens. so i guess the nuance is really the difference between bob sapp and illegal fraud

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

Seltzer posted:

This is so weird

well, wrestling has its own appeal too, right? though keirin results are fixed because of yakuza influence and i imagine most of the betting is essentially some form of money laundering. or maybe you might have two or more separate gambling rings trying to have their guy win .. very hard in bike racing because its much easier to take another rider out of the race with tactics than it is to actually win yourself. regardless though, it remains really popular cos the riders are very seriously skilled and uniquely strong

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011
woops .. guess there ws a bellator card in newcastle a few days ago. i could hve went :-(

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

i know hes not in the ufc anymore but ... please post them there too ... i love him ..

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011
lmfao at the second picture. i knew i wasnt the only one getting those vibes from him

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

hang in there cro cop

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

i dont want anything to do with that. that looks like the kind of hosed up thing you have to join an invite only darknet chatroom to get access to like online rooster fight betting or something.

I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

Brut posted:

Are elbows allowed at this thing, seems like it's mostly ex MMA fighters, not boxers, right?

if its anything like the 100 year old british tradition its just fat gypsys and bouncers

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I.N.R.I
May 26, 2011

lmao

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