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site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


You're appalled that someone would correctly assert that there's a not insignificant portion of Nazis who like the punisher and appropriate that iconography because he is a white man who murders all those he sees as deserving of it with impunity?

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Open Marriage Night
Sep 18, 2009

"Do you want to talk to a spider, Peter?"

I was thinking about this conversation at the club I work at because there was a muscle bro in a Punisher shirt. Seemed like a nice enough guy, but he fit the new stereotype for Punisher fan.

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST


I don't think anybody is trying to hurt your feelings, but I also think nobody is in the mood to see the honor of the WORST Punisher fans be defended. The character I expected isn't the one I got and the series was better for it.

And when "I've seen an episode of TV like this before" is the only point you're making, it's kinda tough to see where you're going. The Sins of the Father is like older than time itself as story element. That didn't make Black Panther any less amazing. Whenever someone describes something as formulaic, it's like a non-point to me. It means nothing. What about the formula failed specifically?

Endless Mike
Aug 13, 2003

Get running
Start pumping your bunions, I'm coming
I'm the dumbest, who flamethrow your function to Funyons
Flame your crew quicker than Trump fucks his youngest
Now face the flame fuckers your fame and fate's done with



Punisher/blue line stickers are my favorite thing.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



Endless Mike posted:

Punisher/blue line stickers are my favorite thing.
I see that combo way too much

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

It was all going well, and then the parademons showed up


Fallen Rib

Meh. My main criticisms of the Punisher show was gun control politician was really a snivelling coward, and oooh we are setting up a big baddie comic book villain that we will reveal in the last 3 minutes of the show. Come back for season 2 which will never happen.
The last part is more of a criticism of Netflix shows in general. How they pad and slow down to a snail's pace because they think spending 20 minutes explaining some one note villain' backstory makes the show deep (I still can't get over the Daredevil Bullseye flashback episode).
Besides those things I enjoyed the Punisher for at least going in a different direction and giving Frank more to do and making him realize how broken he is.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on


Pillbug

FlamingLiberal posted:

I lost interest after I watched the second one, which was trash

Thereís a reason I left II out. That movie was dogshit, so I was really surprised by how drat good III was.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



Ugly In The Morning posted:

Thereís a reason I left II out. That movie was dogshit, so I was really surprised by how drat good III was.
It was really the best example of 'hey, you guys like x character(s) right? well have all of that you can possibly want!!' when they made the bugs part of the story after having that brief cameo in the 1st one.

also the villains were awful

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017

Best advice I was ever given?

"Ticker, you'll be a lot happier once you stop caring about the opinions of a culture that is beneath you."

I learned my worth, learned the places and people that matter.

Opened my eyes.


Madkal posted:

Meh. My main criticisms of the Punisher show was gun control politician was really a snivelling coward, and oooh we are setting up a big baddie comic book villain that we will reveal in the last 3 minutes of the show. Come back for season 2 which will never happen.
The last part is more of a criticism of Netflix shows in general. How they pad and slow down to a snail's pace because they think spending 20 minutes explaining some one note villain' backstory makes the show deep (I still can't get over the Daredevil Bullseye flashback episode).
Besides those things I enjoyed the Punisher for at least going in a different direction and giving Frank more to do and making him realize how broken he is.

Aside from setting up the comic book villain, I found the ending of S1 to be very definite. Frank finally joins the vets, admits he is scared, opens himself to other people.

Also makes sure that Curtis stays alive because we all knew drat well he was going to get killed in S2 for motivation

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


Samuringa posted:

Also makes sure that Curtis stays alive because we all knew drat well he was going to get killed in S2 for motivation

Please don't hurt me like this

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017

Best advice I was ever given?

"Ticker, you'll be a lot happier once you stop caring about the opinions of a culture that is beneath you."

I learned my worth, learned the places and people that matter.

Opened my eyes.


Goddamn miracle he survived S1, I'd rather not take any chances.

SlimGoodbody
Oct 20, 2003



I'm going to be so sad if there's a Punisher season 2, because it will mean Frank wasn't allowed to get better 😞

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!


SlimGoodbody posted:

I'm going to be so sad if there's a Punisher season 2, because it will mean Frank wasn't allowed to get better 😞

I have some bad news about that...

Although if they swerved and itís just a hospital procedural of him working in a VA thatíd be amazing

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


What if John wick but instead of pet avenger, vet avenger

Seemlar
Jun 17, 2002


Saw a preview screening of Into the Spider-verse and it is a good movie! It's looks and style are pretty terrific, probably even beyond what I expected from the trailers. A real "this is what a comic book movie can really do huh" kind of thing.

A couple of minor worries I had (the low frame rate the trailers showed, that the crossover aspect might crowd Miles out of his own movie, Nic Cage sounding a little phoned in during his trailer lines) I can happily say were complete non issues. Especially Cage.

If there were any justice in the world it would be the last Stan Lee cameo. Whatever thing they'll inevitably put in IW-2 doesn't have a hope in hell of being as fitting.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


You're sure about the framerate? I loved everything else about the trailers but that made my eyes ache (literally) and I was so sad.

Seemlar
Jun 17, 2002


It will probably end up being a personal thing, but I honestly just didn't notice the low frame rate parts much, not in any way that bothered me. If you're really sensitive to it, you still might not like it. It being mixed in with scenes that aren't at that reduced rate probably helps.

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

SonicRulez posted:

I don't think anybody is trying to hurt your feelings, but I also think nobody is in the mood to see the honor of the WORST Punisher fans be defended. The character I expected isn't the one I got and the series was better for it.

We're looking at it differently pretty much. I'm pointing out that I like the genre and I don't think you're a capital worst fan if you like pulpy violent noir and John Woo etc influenced type of stuff. Honorable stoic bloodshed whatever you call it, it can be a good story. I think that character would work as is, DD season 2 did pretty well. I'm not defending every person on Earth with a Punisher shirt, just saying I think being against this kind of story because you think it caters to particular people you don't like, well, that's where we disconnect here.

For example, going way way back, people who don't like stuff like Dirty Harry or Death Wish. Because they say it's right wing fantasy. And whether you agree it is or isn't, there's a lot of stuff inspired by that influential art/entertainment in all mediums, a lot of it by liberal pacifists. I mentioned western movies earlier, and part of what's cool about Dirty Harry was it put that style of movie into a contemporary setting, and it worked. Writing out there stuff where a compelling antihero does things that are bad, that can be okay. Just like it's okay to find Jason Vorhees and Freddy Kreuger entertaining, we're not saying hey go out and kill people. But in general either way, I don't agree with this mood as you put it, like there's something so awful and harmful about The Punisher. If somebody is going to be negatively influenced by a piece of entertainment, well, this has been talked about a lot in the video game area, but that person has other problems than the entertainment they're taking in. I think art can be a lot more weird, not immediately obvious that it's responsible or moral etc, more room to breath. But anyway, we're talking about Marvel's The Punisher.

It is in most of it's run pretty much a superhero thing by association and publisher only, and the various cameos and crossovers. I know now in the comics Frank is after "big game", which usually to me feels a bit less interesting, fighting the superheroes etc. It's a violent pulpy crime story, not something superhero fans will all dig. So I can see why Punisher is a controversial figure in this thread I guess, I just myself don't think it needs to be, not inherently.

And speaking of John Wick, mentioned above, that movie rules. There's a fun movie series about hitmen, criminals, underworld honor, violence, all that good stuff. I guess Punisher needs a better PR guy on these forums or something, so he can get that Wick love. And hey, Wick deserves it, but he's not a saint himself either. Antiheroes can be fun to work with and worthwhile.

Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Dec 2, 2018

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


typing this 8 inches away from my full run of Ennis' punisher yeeeah this what about me the real fan woe is me thing just isnt winning me over and tbh your constant inability to acknowledge the criticism in any meaningful way (you're comparing real life right wing cops, military and militias who use the emblem to horror movie fans?? really?) is making my fash spidey-sense tingle more than a little

site fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Dec 2, 2018

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



The Punisher is a bad character whose good stories recognize that.

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

I disagree there. On paper he's as good as any other tragic avenger, if you like the genre and style of story he's in, you like it. You can play with the conventions, but I myself don't think only ones that subvert them are good, since I like that genre.

site posted:

typing this 8 inches away from my full run of Ennis' punisher yeeeah this what about me real fan woe is me thing just isnt winning me over and tbh your constant inability to acknowledge the criticism in any meaningful way (you're comparing this to supernatural horror movie characters?? really?) is making my fash spidey-sense tingle more than a little

I pointed out I'm liberal in the first post, and I'm a pacifist too. But it's not surprising we have this disconnect, considering the hostility in your posts so far. That you even make these leaps just underlines what I'm saying. Why is it I can post some in depth thoughts on a thing, and you just keep aiming misplaced accusations? This is not proper, site. And you keep going back to this thing that I've explained is specifically not what I'm talking about, if you don't understand how we're talking about more than fascists mentioned in one post, I don't know what to tell you.

Heavy Metal fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Dec 2, 2018

Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...


Gary’s Answer

Heavy Metal posted:

I disagree there. On paper he's as good as any other tragic avenger, if you like the genre and style of story he's in, you like it. You can play with the conventions, but I myself don't think only ones that subvert them are good, since I like that genre.


I pointed out I'm liberal in the first post, and I'm a pacifist too. But it's not surprising we have this disconnect, considering the hostility in your posts so far. That you even make these leaps just underlines what I'm saying. Why is it I can post some in depth thoughts on a thing, and you just keep aiming misplaced accusations? This is not proper, site. And you keep going back to this thing that I've explained is specifically not what I'm talking about, if you don't understand how we're talking about more than fascists mentioned in one post, I don't know what to tell you.

It's only page two, could you at least wait a while longer to threadshit?

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

Ojjeorago posted:

It's only page two, could you at least wait a while longer to threadshit?

It's a good post. Maybe not your thing, but it's the real deal.

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!



If you want to post about the Punisher TV show please post in the TV thread. If you want to keep having whatever dumb argument this is please don't post anywhere.

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

X-O posted:

If you want to post about the Punisher TV show please post in the TV thread. If you want to keep having whatever dumb argument this is please don't post anywhere.

As a mod, why do you allow the charged accusations and other such terrible posting in here?

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!



Heavy Metal posted:

As a mod, why do you allow the charged accusations and other such terrible posting in here?

As a user why do you make bad posts?

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

X-O posted:

As a user why do you make bad posts?

That doesn't help. I'm just not into that style of posting, I don't insult people, I talk about stuff. If people were less at eachother's throats about something as not serious as this Marvel character, it would solve a lot of problems.

Madkal
Feb 11, 2008

It was all going well, and then the parademons showed up


Fallen Rib

To be fair this is the MOVIE thread so we should rather be arguing about why Dolph Lundgren was the best Punisher.

site
Apr 6, 2007

Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch


You mean Ray Stevenson?

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on


Pillbug

Madkal posted:

To be fair this is the MOVIE thread so we should rather be arguing about why Dolph Lundgren was the best Punisher.

11 year old me was a giant Punisher fan and rented that once.

I was so disappointed. Punisher War Zone best punisher movie.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


Seemlar posted:

It will probably end up being a personal thing, but I honestly just didn't notice the low frame rate parts much, not in any way that bothered me. If you're really sensitive to it, you still might not like it. It being mixed in with scenes that aren't at that reduced rate probably helps.

Fair enough, you're not me and can't know what would cause issues. I'd interpreted the comment as "the framerate wasn't in there at all" so more of an on/off thing. I think I'll wait for Redbox so that if I do have issues I'm not out fifteen bucks.

X-O
Apr 28, 2002

Long Live The King!



Confirmed: Captain Marvel Trailer tomorrow night on ESPN

Rumored: Avengers 4 Trailer Wednesday at some point


That would be weird to drop two Marvel trailers that close but Disney has been dropping trailers left and right for a few weeks now.

Wheat Loaf
Feb 13, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


Well, Captain Marvel's meant to be a big character in Avengers 4 so perhaps she's in its trailer.

If people are sufficiently convinced of Captain Marvel's importance in Avengers 4 (which is obviously the movie most people are more interested in) then more people will go to see Captain Marvel.

Nipponophile
Apr 8, 2009

Man of the Rising Sun


Heavy Metal posted:

So I can see why Punisher is a controversial figure in this thread I guess

No, I don't think you can.

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

I do look forward to Captain Marvel, and I love Sam Jackson. He was in Do The Right Thing, he sure gets around.

SonicRulez
Aug 6, 2013

GOTTA GO FIST


Madkal posted:

To be fair this is the MOVIE thread so we should rather be arguing about why Dolph Lundgren was the best Punisher.

I still have an absurd amount of love for the Thomas Jane version tbh. He doesn't even do a ton of punishing in that movie. It's kind of bizarre. Maybe I just like when Diesel shows up as an over the top deliberate cartoon character in an otherwise pretty normal movie. Like you kinda forget it's Marvel until he shows up.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Endless Mike posted:

Punisher/blue line stickers are my favorite thing.

Punisher Skulls with blue lines on police cruisers.

https://twitter.com/heraldleader/st...165585298370564

Nothing says "We're out to kill you" better.

Good new though, the removed them after people pointed out that BLM is a white supremacy movement and the Punisher is a murderer.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011


Fun Shoe

Heavy Metal posted:

I didn't say I was offended, I said appalled. And the second post did say they hate Punisher and the culture around it etc, I get it's not saying literally every fan and aimed at me in particular, but it does to me show a kind of direct way of critiquing art/entertainment that I don't quite dig. Plus in general suggesting that Punisher as is wasn't something that would be good, or what have you, when I myself do think it would be good, so I'm chiming in there. And hey, it's cool that you liked the show.

(editor's note: I'm not really appalled, posters from previous page, it's all good, I'm just ranting about funnyman Frank Castle here and how he's a great guy)

Iirc all they said was it was nice to see him taking on PMCs instead of minorities. I donít see why you would have a problem with that statement. Or why you think a pulp hero canít be aiming up at the corrupt institutional power structures like PMCs instead of aiming down at poor people

Edit - sorry didnít see mod post if this is meant to end

AdmiralViscen fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Dec 3, 2018

Heavy Metal
Sep 1, 2014

America's $1 Funnyman

I'm following the rules, won't continue that, I touched a messy topic and rambled a lot.

I'll say, not touching on that topic, honestly my favorite comic is Judge Dredd. I love satire on fascism and politics, and I love stuff like Parker and other criminal stories, I'm good with authority being painted in a bad light or being a villain. I look for certain things from different stories, I feel like a lot can be extrapolated from sharing one specific opinion on something, it can be a bit of a quagmire to cover every angle.

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Sgt. Politeness
Sep 29, 2003

I've seen shit you people wouldn't believe. Cop cars on fire off the shoulder of I-94. I watched search lights glitter in the dark near the Ambassador Bridge. All those moments will be lost in time, like piss in the drain. Time to retch.

So the Captain Marvel trailer (2?) nnnnndrop is during Monday Night Football? Is this an attempt to get dudebros hyped for Marvel's first big lady movie or is there some other strategy at play?

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