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Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
Game is very good. I just barely blew a SASO Sean Bean ET run because the room I was drawing guards into just barely got opened before I knocked the last guy out. :negative:

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DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
Congratulations on getting your contract featured Nakar, I’m just disappointed that it wasn’t all pistol kills. So, I did it as all pistol kills, and also said “Garbage Day” after each one.

Xanderkish
Aug 10, 2011

Hello!

Zigmidge posted:

Marrakesh was one of the easiest. Start in the school alley and use the amplified conversation to nab him in the bathroom, you're done and out of there in a minute.

You can also avoid being in the school entirely by climbing to a ledge accessible via the Headmaster's room and shooting the general as he leans out a window on the opposite side of the school.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Xanderkish posted:

You can also avoid being in the school entirely by climbing to a ledge accessible via the Headmaster's room and shooting the general as he leans out a window on the opposite side of the school.

He leans out a window? I had to shoot him while he just walks past one.

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

Exsqueeze me, why the sour face? I'm here to lemon aid you. Let's juice it.
There are lots of great ways to snipe in these old well documented maps, guys.

HenryEx
Mar 25, 2009

...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...
Grimey Drawer
Call him and stand on that one ledge up the pipe and snipe him when he comes down the stairs to meet swedish dude, then turn 45° to the right and immediately snipe swedish dude as well, then leave

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

Exsqueeze me, why the sour face? I'm here to lemon aid you. Let's juice it.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum

DalaranJ posted:

Congratulations on getting your contract featured Nakar, I’m just disappointed that it wasn’t all pistol kills. So, I did it as all pistol kills, and also said “Garbage Day” after each one.
That's what I wanted, but there's a reason I didn't force it: To allow for something like this. It's related to a guide or video I'd like to get made about why contracts suck and how to make them not suck. This is not that guide but here's a brisk runthrough of some of the highlights.

Ways To Make Your Contracts Suck (or Not)

Types of Contracts
  • ROUTING: This contract has really easy targets and permissive requirements. The goal is to test players' ability to get quick kills and navigate the level.
  • CHALLENGE: This contract would be easy, but some combination of requirements or complications suddenly makes it more difficult. Overcoming the extra restrictions in a quick and efficient manner is the satisfactory part of these contracts. If they're too difficult they become bad.
  • PUZZLE: This contract has a small number of targets and some kind of weird quality to it. Setting somebody on fire who is nowhere near a source of fire, for example. Drowning the Hospital Director as the Hospital Director and still getting SA. That kind of thing. It should be reasonably achievable once the player figures out what to do.
  • SADISTIC: A contract that requires either a significant investment of time or a particularly tricky bit of execution that requires a lot of player skill. The contract is good, if it is good, because of the fun of overcoming a seemingly impossible scenario.
  • CLUSTERFUCK: Any contract that combines too many of the above. No one wants to waste their time on a 30 minute disguise carousel puzzle contract with pinpoint execution requirements and instant fail conditions.
Target Selection

The ideal target should be a little difficult to isolate or kill undetected, but not too difficult. It's certainly possible to kill somebody at the Wilson's party in Vermont, but in general those people are poor targets because they don't go anywhere (the guy on his phone and a few others are exceptions; pay attention to things like that). Targets that are trivial to kill are fine in a multi-target contract though, and the more targets you select the easier they should generally be as five-target contracts tend to work best as routing exercises and not tedious 20 minute clusterfucks of potential mistakes.

The number of targets you select should bias itself toward 2-4. 1 is fine if it's a very difficult target or a weird set of restrictions; 5 is fine for Any/Any. As a general rule, you should ratchet down the number of targets if you're asking for something weird. Take Urben's Exchange of Professions in the featured pack: It already has a weirdish requirement (killing two partnered guards with each others' weapons), so it doesn't need any more targets. They'd just get in the way of the puzzle that the contract is designed around.

Remember: There's a reason most 2016/2018 contracts have two targets, and a reason many people dislike Colorado.

Kill Requirements

Your plan should be to set every target in your contract to Any Method and Any Disguise. This should be the baseline, and you should change it only if you think the contract becomes more interesting or more fun as a result. Even something as simple as Pistol kill requirements can unnecessarily restrict a contract. What if I want to do it with fiber wire? What if I want to do it with accidents? What if I want to snipe them? Is there a specific reason Pistol is necessary? You need an answer to this, and critically, the answer should open more options than it closes, or close one very specific option in order to provide one very specific additional challenge.

And the answer can absolutely exist! Here are some examples:
  • Requiring Pistol in an environment where shooting even a silenced gun will draw attention means that people doing the contract need to find blind spots and get people out of sight/hearing of each other. This can be really interesting, but see the complications section below to avoid a massive pitfall.
  • Melee kills require you to get close to the target and leave a detectable body, preventing long-distance shooting and accidents. If the target is difficult to get out of line of sight, or if you'd have to trespass for whatever reason to melee them, this can be an interesting requirement.
  • Specific melee weapons may require actually finding that melee weapon on the map; things like Letter Openers can be in very few locations, and routing to retrieve the weapon you need becomes part of the execution of the contract. If the acquisition of the weapon is interesting, it's probably okay to require it.
  • Large guns are no longer quite as interesting a requirement thanks to briefcase smuggling, but this still restricts the loadout slots potentially available to the player and could screw with them if the fastest route to something involves climbing. Large melee with a forced Suit or other civilian disguise can still work, as long as they don't fit in a briefcase.
  • On the same note, many different kill requirements should generally be avoided, but if the goal is to force the player to bring a stuffed loadout and then improvise the remaining weapons this can be more interesting. Especially so if loadout-capable weapons exist on the map (such as Fiber Wire on Mumbai/Sgail), allowing players to decide what they'll bring and what they'll go after in the level.
Disguise Requirements

As before, Any Disguise is preferable, but there are some reasons to do otherwise.
  • Suit is obviously a way to encourage Suit Only gameplay. Forcing Suit Only is annoying, however, unless the point is to force the player to trespass.
  • Forcing another disguise should generally be avoided unless acquiring the disguise is a puzzle of sorts. The puzzle should be reasonable; Vampire Magician and Plague Doctor are fine, Street Performer and Prisoner are annoying to acquire or use, and Knight Armor stealth contracts are right out.
  • Setting a disguise requirement and No Disguise Changes allows you to force a certain start point. Use this sparingly, but it can be interesting if it forms the basis for the entire contract (my 2016 featured, The Green Revolution, does this with Gardener in Sapienza).
  • Guard disguises are dumb and too easy. If you're going to force people to do something in a certain outfit, make it civilian so they can't openly employ weapons.
  • Multiple disguises should be avoided unless changing disguises and routing between them forms the entire basis of the contract. If you're doing this, all the kills should be Any Method and all the targets should be incredibly easy kills like the mopping guy in the Miami basement. The challenge of this contract type is getting from one costume to the other in a particular order and then to an exit quickly, don't compound it!
Complications

The general rule of thumb for complications is: Don't. They massively cut down on player options and this is usually bad.

But rules are meant to be broken and complications can be good. Never add more than a handful, say 2-3, and never add that many to a contract that already has a bunch of targets or a bunch of really difficult requirements. If you want to go absolutely nuts with complications on a 1 target contract that might be okay. As always, ask yourself what challenge is being added to the contract by the complication and what it does to improve the experience.

That said, not all complications are created equal and some are garbage or incredibly unintuitive in terms of what they're for and what contracts they improve.
  • Do Not Get Spotted, No Recordings, Targets Only, and No Bodies Found are utterly worthless (DNGS is technically useful right now but the spotting thing is apparently a bug so it will become useless again soon). These things already ruin SA and anyone who cares about score is going to restart to get SA if they gently caress these things up. All they do is tank your score further (if optional) or instantly fail you (if mandatory). Both are bad; see below.
  • Time Limit is usually uninteresting and not helpful. It's best in puzzle or challenge contracts where the point is to get something done more quickly than it might initially seem possible, and a weird Time Limit in a contract should immediately stand out in that respect so that people can recognize that this is the challenge, not any other part of the contract.
  • Required Exit is normally bad, but it can be useful for puzzle/challenge contracts if getting to it requires you to trespass or something. It can also be good if it's a routing contract with a centralized exit requirement such that routing to the exit is part of the point; don't use it if setting only one exit makes the contract really linear, as this is bad for letting people experiment and try different target orders.
  • Hide All Bodies should only be used in a few instances. Puzzle contracts where the target is nowhere near a hiding spot are the best examples of where it can be good. It could also be interesting in a routing contract if figuring out the most time-efficient way to stash bodies makes for a fun challenge; test it out in the contract creator and see if it's actually fun first, of course.
  • No Disguise Changes should be used to force Suit Only or to force a certain start point via the undercover starts. It really isn't interesting otherwise, with the exception of a routing contract that requires going between multiple trespassing areas. A good example would be Mumbai: Setting Any Disguise on all targets with No Disguise Changes could be intriguing if there are targets in Rangan, Kale, and Shah's areas, letting the player choose either Suit Only and trespassing everywhere or a disguise start and trespassing only most everywhere in exchange for a more restrictive start.
  • Headshots Only is kind of stupid and should only be employed to prevent people shooting the sliver of a target's thigh with the Ghost. The other use of it is to prevent people from doing legshots, but legshots are a very obscure technique with tons of downsides already so I don't think it's really that interesting to prevent them. If you think legshots would ruin the contract or want to force somebody to get clever with concussion/flash effects, by all means, but meh.
  • Perfect Shooter exists for two reasons, and every other reason you think it might exist for is completely loving wrong: Preventing the player from shooting cameras, and preventing the use of bullet distractions. Let me stress that again: Never use it for anything else, ever. On that note, if you are going to have Perfect Shooter as a complication, never force the player to use a firearm as the kill method. There is nothing fun about punishing the player for missing, so use Perfect Shooter to signal that the player shouldn't be shooting at all and make sure they aren't forced to do it. Any Method is fine (if people want to take the risk of shooting a target for speed purposes, let 'em), as is basically any form of melee weapon kill. Thrown Melee is much better than Pistol since the melee can't miss and won't gently caress your run if you screw it up somehow (outside of the usual ways, like getting witnessed).
  • No Pacifications is pretty straightforward, but don't add it for no reason. If your goal is to prevent the easy acquisition of disguises, this is great because it forces the player to locate and utilize free disguises or go without them. It's great for preventing someone from cheesing an illegal item smuggle by using a guard disguise. It's good in situations where you want the player to figure out a more elegant (or risk-taking) solution that luring and knocking out half a level, but make sure that solution exists.
Final note: Never use mandatory complications -- the ones that instantly fail if broken -- unless the odds of breaking the complication are almost impossible, or the complication is something that merely locks out exiting. In general, don't set a complication to mandatory at all and you can avoid this entirely. Instantly failing a contract is a lame way to game the ratings for Trending and gives awful feedback to players about what they did wrong and how they can fix it.

DalaranJ
Apr 15, 2008

Yosuke will now die for you.
Okay, then I offer,

No patience for patients (Hokkaido) 2-10-3446507-10

Targets: Amos Dexter, Jason Portman, Yuki Yamizaki, Tobias Rieper
Complications: Kill all targets with thrown Scissors, No Costume Change
Notes: You can throw a lethal melee at a pacified target. You don't need to, but you can.
Also, apparently Jason wears a Helmet Kreuger necklace?

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

The reason he got the surgery was to look like Helmut. A fortuitous coincidence.

where the red fern gropes
Aug 24, 2011


can anyone tell me the differences between guns, i like the silverballer but i see people using ICA19 Black Lily? i know kruger is silent and the F/A one opens doors and the striker rules but what about the rest?

The Narrator
Aug 11, 2011

bernie would have won

where the red fern gropes posted:

can anyone tell me the differences between guns, i like the silverballer but i see people using ICA19 Black Lily? i know kruger is silent and the F/A one opens doors and the striker rules but what about the rest?

As far as I can tell, there are no differences between the silverballers, chrome, black lily or the other black ICA silenced. Iirc they're just all standard silenced pistols

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

where the red fern gropes posted:

can anyone tell me the differences between guns, i like the silverballer but i see people using ICA19 Black Lily? i know kruger is silent and the F/A one opens doors and the striker rules but what about the rest?

the silverballers, when holding down the shift button (default on pc) the targeting reticle will narrow down, allowing for pinpoint accuracy at long range. There is still damage drop-off, but for sniping a camera or cutting the chain of a precariously hanging object from a very long range it works really well.

Kanfy
Jan 9, 2012

Just gotta keep walking down that road.
There's a button you can press in the equipment selection menu that shows each weapon's special characteristics, if any.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!


:iiam:

bradzilla
Oct 15, 2004

Youtube strategy guides ftw

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

Exsqueeze me, why the sour face? I'm here to lemon aid you. Let's juice it.

bradzilla posted:

Youtube strategy guides ftw

Nah

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


I fuckin' did Sgail SASO blind. It sucked, took like two and a half hours, and was loving incredible.

nexus6
Sep 2, 2011

If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes

double nine posted:

the silverballers, when holding down the shift button (default on pc) the targeting reticle will narrow down

Really? I always use the silverballers and never had this work. In fact, I'm alt-tabbed right now and holding shift when aiming a silverballer does nothing. Do you have to be on a certain difficulty setting or something?

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum

double nine posted:

the silverballers, when holding down the shift button (default on pc) the targeting reticle will narrow down, allowing for pinpoint accuracy at long range. There is still damage drop-off, but for sniping a camera or cutting the chain of a precariously hanging object from a very long range it works really well.
Note that Steady Aim is almost useless in 2, because they made the default ICA19/Silverballer reticle tighter but Steady Aim takes basically as long to reach max accuracy. Even then it isn't perfect. As a result, 99% of the time the Silverballers have no edge over the other options.

The ICA19, ICA Chrome, and Black Lilly are the same gun mechanically. The F/A and F/A Stealth have larger magazines and are automatic. The Krugermeier still has its old poor accuracy, now even poorer in relative terms.

As far as damage goes, the Striker is the strongest (kills in a bodyshot to midrange), then the ICA19 (one headshot to midrange, two bodyshots to midrange), then other pistols. Three headshots from any gun at any range is lethal. As far as I can tell, a Striker headshot is lethal at any range.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
The reticle for the Black Lilly is good enough to hit things. The Silverballer just gets a bit smaller and I see no point to it. You ADS, hold shift, and the reticle shrinks after two seconds. Then when you want to aim at something, the reticle goes back to normal size. You have to already have been aiming at something to use it, so it's pointless. The Black Lilly looks better anyway.

Also, what's the difference between the guns you pick up like the Hwk9F and the 9S? They look the same but count as two different guns.

Midnight Voyager
Jul 2, 2008

Lipstick Apathy

Sigourney Cheevos posted:

No, but I could also not get him to 'finish'. He was standing in front of it wanting more until he eventually becomes hostile, so I tried cranking it up before he stands in front of it(but still mid-demo), then he gets surprised and wonders how it disappeared and angry that we launched it "without him".

That's the problem, you need to kill him with the submarine, so you gotta do that one after the other ones.

Nakar
Sep 2, 2002

Ultima Ratio Regum
I said I couldn't find a use for the patrolling guard reset trick, and then I found one. I have no idea why that guy walks the wrong way to get back to his spawn point when he could just walk right back down the main street, but it seems to happen consistently and could be useful for contracts just like this one.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
Someone on Reddit made a good point. With Vermont gun laws, it should be legal to open carry weapons in Whittleton Creek.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Cojawfee posted:

Someone on Reddit made a good point. With Vermont gun laws, it should be legal to open carry weapons in Whittleton Creek.

I really like the idea of Hitman's universe being more utopian than ours. America with actual gun laws...!

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?

47's isn't white so people in the suburbs calling the cops on him makes sense.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
You might want to get your monitor checked.

The Narrator
Aug 11, 2011

bernie would have won
Hitman takes place in a world where most people literally do not see race

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?

It's a world where everyone has that goon face blindness disease.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
47 is so confident that most people automatically go along with him, no matter how improbable the disguise.

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

Exsqueeze me, why the sour face? I'm here to lemon aid you. Let's juice it.

Pwnstar posted:

47's isn't white so people in the suburbs calling the cops on him makes sense.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!
Isn't 47 supposed to be...Eastern European or something?

Zigmidge
May 12, 2002

Exsqueeze me, why the sour face? I'm here to lemon aid you. Let's juice it.
He's supposed to be a mix of the best genetic traits we all have to offer and then after writing that the danish company gave him full-body vitiligo and blue eyes.

Pwnstar
Dec 9, 2007

Who wants some waffles?

47 is German/Austrian/Kazakh/Chinese/Columbian from his five dads.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012

Pwnstar posted:

47 is German/Austrian/Kazakh/Chinese/Columbian from his five dads.

Janus refers to this as well.

where the red fern gropes
Aug 24, 2011


a Cool Thing you can do on whittleton creek: if you destroy all 12 cameras for the challenge - you must be on professional, not casual or they won't show up and not master or a bunch of fake cameras will spawn - cassidy will go to visit janus (incidentally this is how you get the unreasonable scope challenge) and janus will absolutely rip into him, revealing that he knows all - and i mean all - of the surveillance poo poo cassidy has been trying to pull while simultaneously undermining cassidy as a person

it's great

e: i hosed up and brought the sieger 300 ghost along, you need to bring a body-piercing sniper for this one and the ghost doesn't seem to pierce. which is weird, because i thought it did.

where the red fern gropes fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Dec 11, 2018

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

Pwnstar posted:

47 is German/Austrian/Kazakh/Chinese/Columbian from his five dads.

Rico Delgado is his cousin, it's great.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Funky Valentine posted:

Rico Delgado is his cousin, it's great.

What? 47's old genetic source from latin america was Pablo Orocha, not one of the Delgados.

Bogart
Apr 12, 2010

by VideoGames
The reason to pick the Silverballer as your pistol is because it’s canon.

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SelenicMartian
Sep 14, 2013

Sometimes it's not the bomb that's retarded.

Two extended-mag silenced full-auto magnum silverballers.

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