Sandman - A game of mafia - The Something Awful Forums

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Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Ok.

# ¿ Dec 10, 2018 19:48

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 21:38

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Rome is burning!

##vote beek da meek

# ¿ Dec 11, 2018 04:47

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

hambeet posted:

it's good this game is sandman 'cos you're putting me to sleep

same, but you're posts

# ¿ Dec 11, 2018 06:15

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Flying Leatherman posted:

I think I'd feel a lot better able to jump in if it did. I never really "get" jokephase either. I think the secret, though, is to be the change you wish to see in the world. For example, I'm going to ##vote humalong for all of the posts that he made that felt designed to meet a quota. I know it's jokephase and all, but the volume felt forced.

Please expand on the bolded bit, do you feel Humalong is scum attempting to rush the 10 post minimum or is your issue more with something else? The usage of the word "quota" is what catches my eye.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2018 02:18

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Toalpaz posted:

Hmm, maybe games should start with a d1 no lunch n1 scum kill and games balanced to that standard.

Formalizing and streamlining the information gathering start to a game could be neaaat. I guess no one would want to participate, but you could be very fast. Like everyone has to make ten posts and the day moves on to n1. (ie: scum please don't kill me im suspect town).

Anyways I'm basically a magical girl so uh, I'm also very town. That's my epic jokephase content. Thanks for reading! I think this quality posting is typical of Humalong, and I'm not convinced this is a scumalong game yet.

Wow I don't like this post, even being read through the toalpaz filter. Filling empty air with game theory stuff is a way to generate content without having to make reads, and the "look at me i'm so town" being thrown out early with zero pressure raises an eyebrow.

P.S. That aside I do agree on the read of Humalong's stuff as harmless shitposting.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2018 02:20

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Toalpaz posted:

I-I know I'm relatively new on the roster here... If I had to guess, I feel despair emanating from these three the most.

Jimmy.

AA.

MMT.

Hey, hey, did I get you scum?

jimmydalad posted:

I may be looking a bit too hard into this but I�m leery of the way that Toal worded this post. It feels like it was structured in a way that they can throw suspicion onto people but then just fall back on a �I�m just jokevoting/roleplaying a character� just in case they get too much heat. They also don�t expand on why the three of us have the most �despair� nor what despair actually means. Overall, suspicious of Toal but then again, this is Toal and they are always or end up always looking like scum.

Toalpaz posted:

Hey, Jimmy!

That's quite a lot of words~ I wonder if you think you can catch scum like that? I'd say that calling 3 people scum in thread isn't really hedging at all.

Toal posted unjustified/unsubstantiated guesses as more wet fart manufactured content, Jimmy called them on it, and now Toal is claiming it somehow wasn't hedging? I agree with Jimmy here, this is bad.

##vote toal

# ¿ Dec 12, 2018 02:22

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Murmur Twin posted:

##vote pod

He usually posts more when he�s town.

you allllllllllllmost got me with this one :argh:

# ¿ Dec 12, 2018 02:23

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

(mmt jokevotes TM)

Murmur Twin posted:

##vote FL

Too genuine for jokephase

Flying Leatherman posted:

I'm being the change I wish to see!

(MMT jokevotes me)

Flying Leatherman posted:

I think there's a little more nuance to it than that, though. Liking jokephase is fine, but actively trying to keep the game there after attempts to generate actual content is the part that feels shady.

Murmur Twin posted:

##vote FL

Generally speaking, my d1 approach is to look for posts that sound town but don't feel like things town would think this early in the game. Associating anything in jokephase as "shady" (as opposed to "insignificant for the most part") feels like a fake opinion.

---

While I think MMT jumping on FL for trying to end jokephase early here is a bit uncharacteristic of her (and feel like her read on FL's second post is uncharitable), I think the reactions to her are way worse:

Toalpaz posted:

When is town supposed to think that Joke phase sucks MMT? What's wrong with being frustrated with people trying to joke, when you want to get to the meat of the game? Are you using this opportunity to push someone who seems like they're handwringing because clueless town might agree with you? That doesn't seem like real scum hunting to me, only an attempt to get content out by scum.

Person who's best contribution to scumhunting thus far is to post 3 random names calls MMT out for faking content. (Also, what handwringing? FL has been fairly upfront in their desire to murder jokephase dead.)

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Anyhow... ##vote mmt

Both FL and MMT are making "good" posts but unless they are both scum bussing one another, this looks like a genuine scum versus town.

The only reason to call genuine content that isn't predicated on role information into question is if you have a reason to let it ride out.

Both FL and MMT have cases where inferred player motive is the linchpin, only MMTs looks far less reasonable in comparison.

Too genuine for joke phase isn't a reason, or all that telling about motive, but post count padding as pointed out by FL is directly attached to motive and a reasonable angle to pursue

Mmt latching on with her case reflects poorly.

Why even mention the "unless they are both scum bussing one another" thing? That's weird, even for AA. Also I patently disagree with the bolded line.

SolusLunes posted:

With MMT flopping her vote around four different times, I also don't see it as a defense of humalong, but more of an opportunistic vote.

Additionally:

Things in jokephase can absolutely be shady and saying otherwise is... questionable.

They just generally don't have the context necessary to be shady.

Also I think this is a legit opinion, once things shift to content, it's probably a bad idea to go back to jokephase, since you'll just be muddying up the waters (good as scum, bad as town.)

I mean, I'm not even jokeposting anymore.

##vote MMT

Characterizing two joke votes and two votes on the same person as "flopping around" is simply not true and smacks of trying to push an agenda that doesn't exist. I agree that MMT's latching onto the word "shady" is uncharitable, but I don't see what MMT is doing as trying to push things back to jokephase in any way, shape, or form. If anything, she's contributed to pulling the game even further out of jokephase.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2018 02:42

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

hambeet posted:

no but seriously, you made a case about mmt being opportunistic when really a vote like mine or jimmy's would have fit that bill better methinks.

i was just shining a light on you calling it that

This is good and correct.

Toalpaz posted:

lol MMT is my best bet for now but I'd like to see her response.

I think I'll vote at like... 8 hours from now. I wouldn't mind ending today after tonights discussion for NA people.

This is the same, but in fact exactly the opposite in that it's terrible and wrong - even for you, toal.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2018 02:43

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Toalpaz posted:

I'm pretty sure scum team is MMT, Pod, and Jimmy.

Just lol if you think that original post I made with three names is particularly bad. It's day one and I wanted to start serious conversations, in a time where there was little to no content. I made that post in response for someone asking for meta reads, if you'd care to look for context.

I gave meta reads, I got responses. Life is good as town.

This is the kind of stuff I think you'd try and pick apart as scum Pod.

The request for meta reads was clearly tongue in cheek, so how is that "starting a serious conversation" when you do absolutely nothing to substantiate them as meta reads? You posted 3 names without further justification. Dressing it up as anything other than that is silly.

I do apologize for calling you bad. If you want to convince me otherwise, comment on stuff other than what's specifically directed at you personally (scum get defensive, you see).

# ¿ Dec 12, 2018 02:56

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Doing the catch-up thing!

Toalpaz posted:

This is why for me, the vote starts off as a joke vote. (You places a vote on FL earlier, that's what I mean). You get some push back from FL, then you dig in with a real half baked argument.

~~~

You asked for reads on Solus. Nothing really sticks out to me as scummy. Sorry, that's the truth. Everything Solus has done seems like something I could expect town Solus to do.

Hi characterizing MMT's initial vote on FL as a joke vote is a really bad take as a way to try and justify your case on her. If she had legitimately walked back the vote only to return to it that would be one thing, but the initial vote read as sincere and the only intervening thing between it and what you call "digging in" was an obvious jokevote.

Also that's a contentless meta read on Solus, I'd appreciate you expanding on that if you can because it's quite weak justification to wave off what both MMT and I noticed otherwise.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Opportunistic in the sense that Player A: Flying Leatherman didn't really participate in jokephase and Player B: Yourself has jumped on that in such a way that doesn't actually lend itself to solving the game IMO.

Playerbase: Joking
Player A: This specific thing looks weird.
Player B: Hmm, too serious for jokephase votes Player A

Me: hmmm

Player A: Omgus votes Player B

Player A & B have back and forth.

Me: hmmm

Playerbase:

Me:

but like I said it could also be...

Scum Player A: This is weird
Scum Player B: You're weird.

~fake argument~

me: hmm

playerbase: these 2 are acting weird, but Player B certainly looks weirder

me:

AA, this post is a whole lot of ramble just to say "well it could be a fake scum argument" and I disagree that it 'doesn't lend itself to solving the game.' At that point you might as well say the same of any interaction in the thread! I don't really get why you're so hung up on "but what if they're BOTH scum" here.

Flying Leatherman posted:

I think it's an incorrect read. I see what he was going for - I�ve definitely seen scum cast around for cases to latch onto before - but contextually, it isn�t a good characterization of your votes in jokephase.

However, it�s not something that I can treat as an alignment tell on you. Like, Solus�s reasoning being bad doesn�t clear you.

This is getting ridiculous, ##vote humalong

(there arent jesters in this variant, right? right??)

Why are you dodging commenting on Solus here and keeping the framing on MMT, when that's not what she asked? (Also it's a bit poor form to snap back to a jokey vote when you were the one intent on killing jokephase)
efb: MMT pointed this out, you ack'd, but never commented on Solus.
efb2: you clarified the intent of the huma vote, but still it was an obvious jokepost and we were past the point where that necessitated a snap vote

SolusLunes posted:

This I agree with- it's a better worded version of the same thing that pinged me as well.

It's certainly not a prerequisite for something to be part of a scum master plan for it to be scummy?

It's not? They didn't, so it isn't. You also seem to be willing to completely ignore the other part of my argument. I mean, if you want to focus on just one part that you think you can pick apart, fine, but picking and choosing your arguments solely for your benefit just makes me think you're scum even more.

I mean, look at all these posts that attempt to simplify my reasons so much that it only has the one reason you think you can attack, instead of ever addressing my other point:

Willfully misrepresenting arguments and reasoning is pretty scummy, and now I'm definitely happy with my d1 vote- short of a blatant scumslip, I won't be moving it off MMT.

Solus, can you please summarize your MMT argument you were trying to back up here in one fresh cogent post, even if you've moved past it? I feel like I see it evolving in a way I'm not super happy about.

Toalpaz posted:

Solus is always an easy scum push and it isn't happening today.

I'd rather vote Merk for meta reasons over Solus, it seems like his scum game. I feel like a couple hours before deadline he'll whip up a case against someone as a find if we put pressure on him so why not.

I'd like to vote MMT, or Merk. I disagree with Pod but I think that Merk's posting stands out as susp.

This was where merk had posted up to in his posting history (if this link works): https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3876723&userid=37071#post490642798

I don't buy this being anything other than a defensive play against merk, characterizing it as (yet another!) un-explained meta read is boggling.

~~~

NOTE: Still catching up but I'll get this out here as a start and come back to other stuff later, deadline's close enough I feel the need to expedite.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:06

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

merk posted:

If I was scum, though, I'd be trying to get us to think about lynching solus because he is low hanging fruit. It feels like too easy of a case because he's not being very careful with his words (which I think Toal implied earlier re: meta). It's kind of like a willie_dee lynch, at least that's how it feels right now.

merk posted:

Quick example:

This looks like scum wanting to make an earlier vote seem strong and well-reasoned (especially now that people are moving away from the case)... but another interpretation is newbie town who honestly believes in something this early and is trying to persuade us to join him.

Disagree badly with this characterization.

Not gonna chainquote stuff but merk coming in to try and shove the vote off of Solus is raising my eyebrows. Also these two posts don't make sense in rapid succession, rushing people to do things is the same bullshit I was calling toal out last night for:

merk posted:

Toal, we have 3.5 hours, and you're -2. I have less than that because I'm going out to dinner here soonish.

merk posted:

It feels like the thread is moving to a Solus lynch, and I don't like this feeling.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:15

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

merk posted:

You're doing a very cheap impression of my Toal case, and I don't like it now that I've seen it.

FL's vote is a throwaway vote this late in the day. Scum often make throwaway votes because they don't want to be culpable for any lynch of town. However, if he's scum and we lynchs cum, this throwaway strategy looks bad for him. That is, if FL is scum, it makes me think Toal and Solus are both town.

I also disagree with this take on FL, I don't see a world where a scum FL blatantly drops that Humalong vote and peaces out like that (nor do I see a scum FL going as hard as she has been, especially on her first game in a while)

Yeah I'm still reading up but I'd vote merk. toal still feels crappy to me but merk coming in like this and trying to manhandle the narrative is worse.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:19

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

SolusLunes posted:

Tell you what. I'll decide to trust you today, and I'll go from there.

##vote Merk

oh my god cmon.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:22

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

OK I'm here. I still have major issues with Toal but would also vote merk or Solus in a heartbeat today. I'm gonna do one more quick reread of those three to gather my thoughts fresh as I admit I got a bit personally irritated at Toal which is probably overshadowing things.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:26

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Toal
- early game fabricated/awkward content (but posting today is better admittedly)
- over-serious read on MMT, to point of talking about ending day quickly, jumped off that vote
- never justified various meta reads (town read on Solus, scum read on merk) - this now feels more like it could be a tactical "nah" to force people to justify their positions, ended up reversing their town read on Solus
- strongly hammering the meta read on merk based on amount of engagement, which I dislike as someone else who posts based on work schedule

merk
- commented early on the FL/jokephase thing
- agree with his case on toal as it's covering similar ground to what I spent time doing yesterday
- bad characterization of Solus as a patsy that I disagree with (coupled with hedging that he'd vote Solus anyways), same with the FL thing I mentioned
- lots of attempts to push the thread when taken as a whole
- that pivot on Humalong wtf

Solus
- bad early game case on MMT for "flopping" covered ad nauseum (including the "lock-in" thing)
- agrees with an AA explanation of the MMT case that I find nonsensical
- the "merk and toal are definitely opposed" response to "what do you think about merk" feels hedgey esp when he only committed to a vote on merk for the reason of "fine I'll trust toal" - not taking ownership of vote
- see quotes for a progression that makes no sense over the span of 6:18 PM - 6:39 PM

SolusLunes posted:

I feel Merk and Toalpaz' alignments are opposed. They both sound scummy, Toal more than Merk, but if one of them should flip town, I will 100% go for the other being scum, and vice-versa (barring new information in a new day).

Toalpaz posted:

The discussion is that this is how Merk plays scum, like I called it from meta.

When I pointed out he was trying to push the vote onto someone who's flip does nothing for us, he revoted fast enough to give me whiplash. This isn't someone who's playing town from a cool collected standpoint, this is Merk getting some content out before hammer and before anyone has a chance to react he hopes.

He's just trying to save face. I don't know if there's much more I can say beyond that but I'm not scum.

SolusLunes posted:

##unvote [ed: this was a vote on Toal]

SolusLunes posted:

You might laugh, but him calling me scum's patsy makes me suspicious of him. I've become significantly more suspicious of people who call me town, since in most games those people end up as scum.

His arguments are sound, I just... don't trust them.

I'd still rather a Toalpaz vote.

I also wonder if you're just tunneling on me because of some OMGUS stuff, and natural tendency. Our arguments would sound like a town slapfight, but I certainly don't trust you either (and would still prefer your lynch over Toalpaz or Merk.)

Toalpaz posted:

Solus you haven't mentioned me all game apart from the last thirty minutes how could you rather me than merk? And still nod at one of my cases in another post?

SolusLunes posted:

Tell you what. I'll decide to trust you today, and I'll go from there.

##vote Merk

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:47

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

##unvote I acknowledge I am probably tunneling too hard on Toal.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:51

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

##vote Solus

What happens if I do.... this?

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:56

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

For posterity:

Votecount for Day 1

SolusLunes (5): Murmur Twin, Kashuno, ~~Murmur Twin~~, Podima, Murmur Twin, jimmydalad, merk

merk (3): Toalpaz, Murmur Twin, SolusLunes, Mr. Humalong, jimmydalad, ~~Murmur Twin~~, ~~jimmydalad~~

Mr. Humalong (1): Kashuno, BottleKnight, Flying Leatherman, ~~Flying Leatherman~~, ~~BottleKnight~~, ~~Kashuno~~, Flying Leatherman, ~~Flying Leatherman~~, Flying Leatherman, merk, ~~merk~~

Tired Moritz (1): Murmur Twin, ~~Murmur Twin~~, BottleKnight

Toalpaz (1): Mr. Humalong, merk, Podima, jimmydalad, hambeet, ~~merk~~, merk, SolusLunes, ~~jimmydalad~~, ~~Mr. Humalong~~, ~~SolusLunes~~, ~~Podima~~, ~~merk~~

Podima (0): Murmur Twin, ~~Murmur Twin~~

Flying Leatherman (0): Murmur Twin, ~~Murmur Twin~~, Tired Moritz, Murmur Twin, ~~Murmur Twin~~, ~~Tired Moritz~~

hambeet (0): merk, ~~merk~~

Anomalous Amalgam (0): hambeet, ~~hambeet~~

BottleKnight (0): Podima, ~~Podima~~

Murmur Twin (0): Flying Leatherman, Anomalous Amalgam, Toalpaz, hambeet, SolusLunes, ~~Toalpaz~~, Toalpaz, ~~Anomalous Amalgam~~, ~~Flying Leatherman~~, ~~hambeet~~, ~~Toalpaz~~, ~~SolusLunes~~

Not Voting (2): Anomalous Amalgam, Tired Moritz

With 13 alive, it's 7 votes to execute. The current deadline is December 12^th, 2018 at 9 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 hour, 2 minutes.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 01:57

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Solus please talk me through those quotes I posted that show a really rapid swerve over a short period of time and explain your thought process to me.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:23

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Murmur Twin posted:

I'm looking over lurkers right now and am suspicious of BK and TM, but I feel like lurker rules make them bad votes.

If I'm looking for someone who posted enough to be heard, but not enough to be cased, it'd be Kashuno.

I know it's late in the game day but would people vote Kash? I know that Kash has claimed to be not around, but it's not like he isn't posting anything either. On a re-read, he's posting but doesn't really say anything.

Solus's late game reaction feels genuine, which messes up my case on Merk, which in turn makes me think that most of the D1 cases out there have been slapfights and scum is just sitting back and letting it happen.

Hm. There are a couple of catches Kash made aside from what you quote:

Kashuno posted:

Toalpaz posted:
I think town would have dropped that convo, and I like AA's case.

Toalpaz posted:
People like TM, Kash, MMT, and AA sitting in the back unknown with hidden thoughts, that's the best way to play. Yet you're casing and voting the top poster cause I'm the only one with content on the board.

You folks should be ashamed of yourselves.

Of note: When I expanded the source quotes to reproduce this nested quote, what was removed makes it feel like glad-handing Toalpaz a bit.

Kashuno posted:

[beet agrees with huma that a mmt vote is bad]

oh word?

[kash posts a votecount showing beet's vote is still on mmt]

I dunno, Kash does have some stuff so I wouldn't characterize it as all vapor posting, especially when he indicated he's feeling sick. He's historically kinda low-engagement early game.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:30

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

SolusLunes posted:

I will not.

Emotional appeal aside I'm not going to move my vote if you respond with this kind of thing when asked.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:31

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Mr. Humalong posted:

Kashuno, TM, and BK would all be bad votes for day 1 I think.

They didn�t interact with many people and there�s very little info to glean from their flips.

I agree with this with the caveat that Kash did at least make a few alignment calls/reads, but TM and BK are going to be managed by lurker rules.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:34

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Murmur Twin posted:

I don't think a scum you would fake this reaction.

I don't agree.

SolusLunes posted:

Don't care. Posting gets me lynched. Not posting gets me lynched. Trying to hedge gets me lynched. Trying to be confident gets me lynched. idgaf and I'm probably going to take a break from mafia and figure out what the gently caress I'm doing so thoroughly wrong.

Note that this is absent of anything to do with alignment. Also, who's going to be more annoyed at being D1 hung, scum or town?

Also I can't get over his reaction when I asked him to justify the main thing substantiating my case - just a "nope" is not enough to turn me off there, that shift in opinion simply doesn't make sense.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:36

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Toalpaz posted:

No I have a null read on Kash but Merk's is almost certainly scum... yet when he got to -2 pod comes back and shifts the conversation away from Merk's scummy push on Humalong... and now we're reading lurkers? Come on. If we lunch a lurker, we're in a bad spot. We need to untangle this mess.

I agree with you on the basis that hanging a lurker is not the right move this late in the day, but I still think people turning away from the cases on Solus because of a single emotional appeal bereft of alignment are making the wrong choice.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:37

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

##vote kashuno

I'm at 1 percent battery life and have no other reads besides my suspicion in mmt and kashuno.

I kind of saw what mmt was picking up on earlier with solus, but I dont buy solus for scum especially with the sincerity and frustration of their most recent posts.

gently caress OFF

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:39

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

SolusLunes posted:

I appreciate the fact that you respect my play enough to believe that I would fake frustration and bitterness as scum, and still believe in voting me.

If you're scum after this we are going to have a talk postgame about this kind of emotional manipulation stuff.

##vote merk

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:47

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Podima posted:

If you're scum after this we are going to have a talk postgame about this kind of emotional manipulation stuff.

##vote merk

Also I'm still mad that I asked you to justify a scummy thing and your answer was "nah" and people seem cool with that.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:48

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Murmur Twin posted:

That reaction isn't alignment-specific, it's frustration.

We can talk about it tomorrow, I still don't think the frustration was alignment-specific as people seem to feel it is but let's see how merk flips.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:52

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Murmur Twin posted:

I'm extremely irritated at people seemingly dropping a vote and vanishing before deadline.

Toalpaz posted:

oh my god

is this really happening?

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:54

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Mr. Humalong posted:

Why

I get it, Solus has 2 dead votes on him (kash/himself) and the votes on merk are all active players.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 02:57

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Hey I am sitting on a plane that will take off soon and am visiting family for a long weekend but will stay on top of this best as I'm able. Can someone please look at the timestamps of AA's posts at the end of d1? Can't easily retrieve from mobile but he stretched that 1% pretty far to push back at the merk execution.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2018 22:29

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

I should probably not have signed up for this game with my planned travel but I'll soldier through, not gonna get owned by my own lurker rules! Hello from California by the way.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 06:49

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Also solus was at -1, if I was scum I would have hammered solus and have been done with it.

My push for Kashuno stands. I don't like his end of day vote on merk and it seemed like the resigned vote of a scum who saw no other out for their scumbro.

Anyhow, yeah phone was at 1%, I expressed what I could before my phone died, and then vanished because phone was dead and I was still very much busy with life at that point in time.

I forgot it was EST in all honesty deadline was rough for me yesterday.

Anyhow, what up IP?

I hate "if I was scum I would have x y z" arguments because they're filler that nobody can feasibly refute so this doesn't sit well with me. That being said while I dislike the way he's coming at this I do agree that hammering a scumbro for town cred is totally viable, Kash isn't cleared by virtue of doing that.

~~~

Tired Moritz posted:

am I legally allowed to vote IcePhoenix just because they replaced in and because I feel Solus's unhappiness of possibly getting lynched day 1 is from dropping the ball for his scum team?

Still reading at this point but I kinda agree with this? I said it yesterday and recognize it's an unpopular opinion but I don't think the emotional appeal is a town tell necessarily. Scum are gonna be madder about being executed than town are, on average.

~~~

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Anyhow, regarding pod.

...

Another thing of note is that he seems to just be catch-up playing. All of his posts as far as I can tell happen within in 1 hour on 12/11 and 2 hours on 12/12 so I think he just gave us a hot take grab bag more than anything.

I don't think it's a smoking gun, but I would lik ehim to explain the in a heartbeat and then his reluctance to vote merk.

Re: catch up playing I can't actually remember if I addressed this in this thread yet but I play in evenings when I'm done with commitments, I don't have time to play during the workday. Calling my play this far a hot take grab bag is pretty rude!

Re: merk vs solus I'd think it was obvious - I got fired up over what I found (my quotes in an earlier post showing a nonsensical shift of opinions from solus) and then got frustrated at what I saw as an emotional appeal that was making people disregard my find as well as his refusal to actually engage when I tried to address it directly, so I was being stubborn. I still don't think I was wrong about solus, but I'm reading ice with an open enough mind.

~~~

Also lol that TM afks on day 1 and then his first and only scum read when pressed is a lurker/ replacement case. That's really bad.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 07:11

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Tired Moritz posted:

luckily for the scum team, I am not.

Of course, when I was first reading it, I felt bad and thought it was ya know, relatable day 1 lynching problems. But I don't really know Solus's meta or temperament so I can't be definitely 100% clear. It really could be just Scum Solus getting frustrated and opting out. I want to see IcePhoenix make more posts, but if I have to say who was the scum replacement (if there is one), it would probably be BK than Solus.

Wow there's enough hedging here to make a fantastic maze! I also still don't see or understand how the comparison to bk is substantiated since he only talks about solus.

Murmur Twin posted:

Oooh actually as suss as I am on TM I gotta ##vote FL. She:

- voiced suspicion on Humalong (one of the players scum Merk was pushing) and TM (a lurker at the time who I also happen to think is scum)
- chose to vote Humalong and was satisfied with her vote
- claimed to that think Merk was probably town

Like if I'm going to vote strictly based on what we learned from Merk's flip I feel like it almost has to be FL.

OK bed for real now.

(typo corrected with mod permission)

This is interesting as I had forgotten the town call on merk. I had a pretty strong town read on FL for admittedly meta reasons (would a scum FL come in as hot as she did on day 1 in their first game in a while) but I see your point here. That being said I still feel like the rest of their D1 posting, town read on merk aside, was fine from memory? How early did that town read get made by FL?

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 07:23

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Dick Bastardly posted:

I mean just look at this.

A dying scum merk list with two towns in the first two entries (I put Humalong squarely in my most likely town category), and then what I believe to be a hedgy bus on Sol. My logic there is as follows: This list is going to feature mainly towns in order to establish a pattern when merk's inevitable flip betrays merk as scum. The Solus entry into the list not first nor second (assuming the list is ranked from most to least scum) but third, and with an "uncertain" question mark. I think the scum intention is for the towns reading this list to follow the line of thought that "well if merk flipped scum {not to mention the additional benefit of Toal flipping town} then that must mean this list is full of towns" thus exonerating Sol.

Perhaps my logic is stupid and/or flawed, but this is were I'm at.

This post and the others that directly follow it from dick are making me feel pretty good about him, they seem to be coming from a genuine place of wanting to puzzle out what happened in day 1 as a replacement.

jimmydalad posted:

Are you being wilfully ignorant or did you miss the follow-up posts from DB?

Alongside that, if I was scum, why would I be one of the first people to move my vote back onto Merk and refuse to vote Solus? It would be much easier to just throw my vote on Solus and say I was going to bed and not move my vote. It was late at night in the UK at deadline.

Ugh more if I was scum defenses, this sucks. I agree with the fact that you were an early merk vote but using it as your first excuse isn't great. Bussing is a thing.

IcePhoenix posted:

MMT looked better imo as the day went on so I'm gonna walk back from that.

Humalong is an interesting read I think. Merk had two posts where he was like "this is the scumteam" and both times it was Toal, Humalong, and Solus (now me). Toal has flipped already and I know I'm town so it makes me wonder if he was actually naming three town or if he was trying to protect Humalong. Their back and forth near the end of the day AFTER he acknowledged that a late push like that on Humalong was extremely unlikely to work is a really easy way to not only distract and confuse town but also possibly cause a no lynch. And if either of them go down then the other gets cred.

Uh so are you calling Huma scum here or what? This is a weird post to make as you reread without making any mention of Huma's actual posts, and also comes off as trying to defend yourself rather than find scum.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 07:35

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Flying Leatherman posted:

So, re: TM. I'm skipping D1 because there wasn't any serious engagement there and just going to get right into D2. There's plenty of stuff here that doesn't look good. The AA vote comes out of nowhere and then the justification is weak when pressed. The BK read is lazy and looks weird when coupled with TM's initial read on Solus - like, there are a few posts in which the thread of the conversation is "Solus did stuff that I think is scummy, but BK only posted 10 times and then replaced out, so it's probably BK", and that's just a weird conclusion that doesn't follow from the thought line.

On the other hand, pressed for a read on me, it's really easy to go with "yep, that D1 stuff near deadline looks Real Bad (objectively, it did!), sure I'd vote her" and if I were in a position to hop on that train as scum I would find it irresistable. But that doesn't happen here, and I can't see a world where scum doesn't take that opportunity. I should be an easy vote today for scum to make after yesterday's play around deadline.

So on balance, I'm leaning town. Despite stuff I don't like around today's posts, the only way TM's alignment call on me today makes any sense whatsoever is if TM and I are both scum, and, um, I know that's not true.

Ok I disagree with this post a lot wow. You're excusing a lot on the basis of "well they didn't go after me so" and that's either self conscious scum or overly charitable town. (Unlike mmt I don't necessarily think this is the golden goose scum slip) Setting aside their lack of jumping on you, would you think they were scum?

I also don't understand where the missing word was supposed to go?

~~~

IcePhoenix posted:

I'm glad you've demonstrated the ability to follow the conversation, beet.

Who do you think is scum? You have zero actual content today.

Agree with the sentiment here but also this is too easy of a tack to take as a replacement ostensibly catching up.

~~~

Flying Leatherman posted:

"the only other way TM's alignment call..." So, like, the two possibilities:

- I am town. TM is not scum because there's no way a scum would pass up an easy case like this on a town player.
- TM and I are both scum, and he's not hopping on that train because the scumteam is already one down.

I know I'm town so I conclude that the first possibility is the correct one and TM is town.

Oh here it is. No, disagree, assumes too much about scum motivations or strategies. Like I could see this in a vacuum as an overthinking townie but excusing TM for that alone is a bit much.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 07:46

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

IcePhoenix posted:

Currently leaning MMT but I have a ways to go (including rereading this day) so I'm not going to put down a vote yet

sorry I meant to put that all as one post but hit submit replay out of habit and don't want to edit even if it's a ninja

IcePhoenix posted:

MMT looked better imo as the day went on so I'm gonna walk back from that.

Humalong is an interesting read I think. Merk had two posts where he was like "this is the scumteam" and both times it was Toal, Humalong, and Solus (now me). Toal has flipped already and I know I'm town so it makes me wonder if he was actually naming three town or if he was trying to protect Humalong. Their back and forth near the end of the day AFTER he acknowledged that a late push like that on Humalong was extremely unlikely to work is a really easy way to not only distract and confuse town but also possibly cause a no lynch. And if either of them go down then the other gets cred.

IcePhoenix posted:

I'm glad you've demonstrated the ability to follow the conversation, beet.

Who do you think is scum? You have zero actual content today.

IcePhoenix posted:

oh I got back up to speed this morning like I said I would

IcePhoenix posted:

annnd....read my posts?

This is the net sum of IP's big catchup that he references with his last two posts: a non read on Huma and an inactivity callout on beet. This doesn't do anything at all to change my mind about solus from day 1!

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 07:50

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

##vote icephoenix

Other persons of interest:
Tired Moritz
AA
FL
Beet

Town reads:
MMT
Dick

Neutral:
Everyone else unless I missed someone, I'm tired and this bar is about to close

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 07:52

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# ¿ Apr 23, 2024 21:38

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

jimmydalad posted:

I’m gonna throw a vote down on TM because of their criminal inactivity yesterday and generally their gameplay is making me ???

About to get on plane so yay. See you tomorrow

Just going to point out that after beating the drum all day for me, this is a pretty weak pivot elsewhere after nobody bit on it. At least respond to my stuff!

Not voteable right now but raises an eyebrow depending on what happens with TM.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2018 16:50

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