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Tolkien minority
Feb 14, 2012




The first like 5 minutes of Suspiria

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M_Sinistrari
Sep 5, 2008

Do you like scary movies?





Since we're talking on favorite opening and ending scenes, what about favorite trailers for movies? Here's some of my faves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeSAFGWzft8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchHHSNGDJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e-YIIKzXNY

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Proudly supporting the Lowtax Spine Fund 2018-19


TheKingslayer posted:

Without thinking about it.... A Nightmare On Elm Street. But as I sit here I'll probably come up with something I like more.

I honestly don't even remember it. But then I never liked NOES and haven't seen it in close on 30 years.

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


gey muckle mowser posted:

is Scream too obvious?

Itís only obvious because itís the correct answer. Halloween is a strong contender.

Bluedeanie
Jul 20, 2008

It's no longer a blue world, Max. Where could we go?



Coppola's Dracula opener is pretty memorable and does a perfect job estsblishing the tone and aesthetic the rest of the film follows, but I am reluctant to call it or any other aspect of that film "good."

TheKingslayer
Sep 3, 2008

There are no men like me. There's only me.





Jedit posted:

I honestly don't even remember it. But then I never liked NOES and haven't seen it in close on 30 years.

It's a short scene of Freddy in his boiler room making his claw. You only see his hands but it's so sinister and grimy. Then the title card drops with the music sting.

Or I could just put scene here. Duh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKb9VdVNZjM

X-Ray Pecs
May 11, 2008

New York
Ice Cream
TV
Travel
~Good Times~


M_Sinistrari posted:

Since we're talking on favorite opening and ending scenes, what about favorite trailers for movies? Here's some of my faves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWS4tTzs60

Also a strong contender for best opening scene, in which an ATM calls Stephen King an rear end in a top hat.

Pomp
Apr 3, 2012

Pomp has also
an anime avatar



feedmyleg posted:

Care to make a pitch for it?

Its a mostly unsuccessful art/horror film from Troika, but it fails in all the best ways while the stuff that works is legitimately either compelling or funny IMO

Tolkien minority
Feb 14, 2012




M_Sinistrari posted:

Since we're talking on favorite opening and ending scenes, what about favorite trailers for movies? Here's some of my faves.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O--gF8nVkik

Pomp
Apr 3, 2012

Pomp has also
an anime avatar



Pomp posted:

Its a mostly unsuccessful art/horror film from Troika, but it fails in all the best ways while the stuff that works is legitimately either compelling or funny IMO

The main character is a cheap, plastic, sentient placenta

M_Sinistrari
Sep 5, 2008

Do you like scary movies?





X-Ray Pecs posted:


Also a strong contender for best opening scene, in which an ATM calls Stephen King an rear end in a top hat.

I'd have to say Maximum Overdrive's opening is one of my faves with just showing everything starting to go wrong.

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

We're back, baby

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Bluedeanie posted:

Coppola's Dracula opener is pretty memorable and does a perfect job estsblishing the tone and aesthetic the rest of the film follows, but I am reluctant to call it or any other aspect of that film "good."

You're absolutely right, Coppola's Dracula isn't good. It's great.

axelblaze
Oct 18, 2006

Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

and...oh my...could you please...
oh my...



Grimey Drawer

House of a 1000 Corpses has a pretty fantastic opening scene, further made to seem even better by the rest of the movie being kind weak.

The correct answer is Scream though.

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007



An actual bad movie with a good opening scene is Ghost Ship.

COOL CORN
Jun 1, 2003

If we vanished tomorrow, no organism on this planet would miss us.
Nothing in nature needs us.




Buglord

Now, The Devil's Rejects, that's a good closing scene.

TheKingslayer
Sep 3, 2008

There are no men like me. There's only me.





Drunkboxer posted:

An actual bad movie with a good opening scene is Ghost Ship.

This makes me want a super cut of the one great scene from sucky horror movies.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Basebf555 posted:

You're absolutely right, Coppola's Dracula isn't good. It's great.

Yeah itís like if you could translate the feeling of watching a shadow lantern to a filmed narrative.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Fart City posted:

Yeah itís like if you could translate the feeling of watching a shadow lantern to a filmed narrative.

But also if one of the shadows was Anthony Hopkins hamming it up for 2 hours.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.



TheKingslayer posted:

This makes me want a super cut of the one great scene from sucky horror movies.
You could probably squeeze Jess Franco's filmography into 90 minutes.

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007



Basebf555 posted:

But also if one of the shadows was Anthony Hopkins hamming it up for 2 hours.

Yeah what the hell is the deal with that performance? He somehow stands out as a weirdo in a movie full of weird performances.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Basebf555 posted:

But also if one of the shadows was Anthony Hopkins hamming it up for 2 hours.

A very loud shadow lantern.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.



Drunkboxer posted:

Yeah what the hell is the deal with that performance? He somehow stands out as a weirdo in a movie full of weird performances.
Honestly I think it's pretty true to the source material and how Van Helsing is a proto-pulp adventure mad scientist.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Drunkboxer posted:

Yeah what the hell is the deal with that performance? He somehow stands out as a weirdo in a movie full of weird performances.

In the DVD special features they talk specifically about that weirdo moment at the front door where Hopkins dances with Mina for a moment and acts all creepy. It seems like it wasn't really any more complicated than Hopkins going to Coppola during rehearsals and saying "hey I'm gonna try it like this". And Coppola just let him do whatever because he knew what kind of movie he was trying to make, he knew to trust Hopkins instincts.

Here's the clip actually: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n6ewp9N0dE

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Dec 12, 2018

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Itís a very operatic film through and through. I think the performances are deliberately evocative of that.

The entire movie is basically playing to the nosebleeds.

M_Sinistrari
Sep 5, 2008

Do you like scary movies?





Fart City posted:

Itís a very operatic film through and through. I think the performances are deliberately evocative of that.

The entire movie is basically playing to the nosebleeds.

I remember Coppola saying he was trying to invoke the theater technique style of the old 30s era films when they were still working out learning film as a medium. Hopkins performance worked for me in the angle of Van Helsing likely studying all sorts of old lore probably would be on the edge of failing a sanity roll here and there.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

M_Sinistrari posted:

I remember Coppola saying he was trying to invoke the theater technique style of the old 30s era films when they were still working out learning film as a medium. Hopkins performance worked for me in the angle of Van Helsing likely studying all sorts of old lore probably would be on the edge of failing a sanity roll here and there.

Along with the theater aesthetic was Coppola's idea about how "the costumes ARE the sets". So the movie is like if a stage play had unlimited big Hollywood movie budget to make the most lavish and detailed costumes imaginable. With costumes like that you need performances to stand up to them.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013


If it wasn't for disappointment,
I wouldn't have any appointment.





Grimey Drawer

As I have time, I am going to add the staff picks. I think I'm done with 1/3 of them. Since there are so many good and interesting choices--and for aesthetic purposes--we're going to leave off credits and reasons for being chosen. You are appreciated, even if you don't get your names mentioned.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Fart City posted:

Itís a very operatic film through and through. I think the performances are deliberately evocative of that.

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007



Basebf555 posted:

Along with the theater aesthetic was Coppola's idea about how "the costumes ARE the sets". So the movie is like if a stage play had unlimited big Hollywood movie budget to make the most lavish and detailed costumes imaginable. With costumes like that you need performances to stand up to them.

Love that muscle armor.

InfiniteZero
Sep 11, 2004

PINK GUITAR FIRE ROBOT



College Slice

Jedit posted:

Anyway: what are people's favourite opening scenes in horror movies? If you don't answer "The Fog" then you're wrong, but all input is welcome!

That's a really easy one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrEvK-tv5OI

There are plenty of other good examples, but this is the one that has traumatized more people than any other to be sure, and also the one you're most likely to recall exactly when you don't want to.

TheKingslayer
Sep 3, 2008

There are no men like me. There's only me.





Yeah that armor from the opening of Dracula is so dope.

axelblaze
Oct 18, 2006

Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

and...oh my...could you please...
oh my...



Grimey Drawer

COOL CORN posted:

Now, The Devil's Rejects, that's a good closing scene.

Of the many things I didn't like about 31, one thing that particularly stood out was him just trying to do that scene again with a different 70s staple, but without any of the buildup that gave the original scene any impact.

M_Sinistrari
Sep 5, 2008

Do you like scary movies?






I think I'm the only person who was okay with Keanu's performance in the movie.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






Drunkboxer posted:

Love that muscle armor.

Vlad Tepes strikes me as exactly the kinda guy who would fight dressed up as a flayed man.

Alhazred
Feb 16, 2011






M_Sinistrari posted:

I think I'm the only person who was okay with Keanu's performance in the movie.

Fun fact: The marriage scene with Keanu and Winona were actually legally binding.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Drunkboxer posted:

Love that muscle armor.

Seriously, can you imagine another actor in those scenes who doesn't have the insane talent of Gary Oldman? They could've fallen completely flat. In fact, Oldman himself seemed to really not be feeling it and the behind the scenes clips I've seen make him look very worried that he was gonna end up in a total embarrassment.

T Bowl
Feb 6, 2006

Shut up DUMMY

I am a horror film fan, and I just recently watched "Would You Rather". It was ok, pretty goofy.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


So you know what ultra mega successful and popular franchise is secretly a horror series, just no one ever talks about it in that context because it tends to hide/ignore that fact very well?

Godzilla. Some of you will get this immediately and already be nodding, indeed indeed. A lot of you however, when you think of Godzilla, you're thinking of one of three things.

One of the two American Godzilla films- which have mild elements of horror but in the same way that a disaster movie does.

Maybe Godzilla 2000, the last Japanese Godzilla to be released in American theaters nationwide.

Or this

First, this is the pinnacle of cinema and all naysayers are denied. This singular moment would cure any number of ills and put to rest the numerous woes of the world if it could only be accepted as the brilliance that it is.

The brilliance being, the movie just not giving a gently caress and doing whatever it wants and gently caress you for caring. But that's a whole other discussion for another day. Right now, we're going to focus in on Godzilla: Horror. To understand exactly how this franchise enters the horror frame of mind, beyond just the tangential connection of monster movies that are shared universally, we have to take a step back. We have to take the context of the time, and what informed it.

Actually we don't, so I'll be brief. World War 2, it was a poo poo. Atrocities, racist fuckheads, dogma, and a changing of civilization that swept the world over. WWI was the coming of the modern age of war, where classical ideals clashed with terrifying technology. WWII was the superior sequel with a greater depth of horrors yet unthought of, where instead of just the soldiers getting torn into, we got even more casualties involved. We're not giving a Japan a pass on this either- the Godzilla franchise itself has made note of their culpability in the war crimes they commited, the people they killed.

But Japan didn't do these things in a vacuum and get away with it. Of course there were the atomic bombings which broke the camel's back and ended the war- in the pacific at least. Poland got REAL hosed over but we're not talking about them right now. Before those though, were the fire bombings. Something that tends to be overlooked, how many air strikes were raided on Japanese civilian towns. More damage and more loss of lives are attributed to those events than the atomic bombs themselves. Basically, World War 2 was a poo poo and no one walked away happy.

World War 2 is incredibly important for this discussion because the horrors of it are mundane and depressing, and those are some of the very same horrors that make up Godzilla. Because Godzilla IS a product of World War 2, a response to it and what it had done to the nation of Japan. The people of Japan. To the creators of the work itself. Tsuburaya, the man who gave Godzilla life, was and is one of the most renowned and acknowledged special effects artists in history. His work helped define Japanese culture as it is today, and had a fair bit of influence over seas as well.

Yet it almost all went south because of World War 2. One of his biggest projects before he came back to the limelight in the 50s, was a recreation of Pearl Harbor. The studio he was working for had been tasked by the government to create propaganda films, and he was one of the many cogs in the machine caught in the middle. So he did his work, and reportedly did it so well and meticulously that it was mistaken for actual footage shot of the event.

After WWII, you can well imagine how this was received. When his blackballing was done, he quietly returned to Toho Studios with a full team on his side. He helped craft the visual story of Godzilla in his own way, working with Ishiro Honda and Tanaka hand in hand. Though, a huge element to what makes the original Godzilla so unsettling is his roar. The original roar is very different than what would become popularized, rougher and less warm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRYq58QPTk8

Especially his chilling death cry from the end.

So for a group of men to make a movie that was about a giant monster rising from the ocean, which itself was based on the atomic testings on the Bikini Atoll and the sailors who were killed by it- long, sad story there- you really couldn't have asked for a better line up.

This brings us directly to the original movie. It is a masterpiece of filmmaking, yet because it was released in 1954 it had to share the stage with Rear Window and Seven Samurai, so you know. 1954 was kind of a big year for movies- and horror, as it turns out. From the jump, there is a quiet dread that hangs over the film, especially if you keep in mind the then extremely recent atomic testings and what had happened to Japanese sailors during them. A quiet dread that immediately takes a turn for the violent, ship after ship vanishing in atomic fire within the ocean.

Like any good horror film, the monster is built up. The moment you meet the monster is a monumental moment, but unlike the Universal Horror of old, the angry mob with torches run away from the beast that they had hoped to chase back to the sea. For Godzilla is quite the unique threat- invincible, unstoppable, unknowable. Emerging larger than a mountain, impervious to any and all of man's weapons, able to unleash nuclear fury from his mouth at a whim, Godzilla towers over all other cinematic monsters before him.

Here is the easiest place to find the horror elements of Godzilla, as he systematically eradicates Tokyo, burning it to the ground one block after another, crushing men, women and children alike. Imagery of the firebombings in Japan are evoked, explored, and even referenced. One of the most memorable moments is a widowed mother clutching her children as Godzilla's horror approaches ever closer, promising that they will soon be with their father.

We later find her corpse in one of the many crisis centers, 'hospitals overflowing with the maimed and the dead', to borrow from Raymond Burr in the American version King of the Monsters. More on that in a moment. We find her dead, her children orphans, and possibly doomed themselves to a much worse fate. Because in the aftermath, we find that Godzilla truly is just as vicious and awful as the nuclear fire that awoke him- he leaves radiation in his wake. Dangerous, deathly radiation, that has taken hold of many of the 'survivors' of his wrath. Including, notably, children.

Because the horror of Godzilla's attack isn't his direct actions, but all of the consequences after. Godzilla does not care for individual humans, does not notice them as such. He passes by and all goes to ruin in his wake. Not out of malicious intent- nothing he does is malicious, which is possibly the worst thing of all. Simply because of what he is, devastation follows. He is a horror that cannot co-exist with humanity.

What heightens this tragedy is the reason why I brought up, if only obliquely, Japan's own crimes in the war. Namely, all were victims in the end. There were no victors in war, not when the individuals were concerned. One country that terrorized others would then become victims themselves of another power. Japan and Germany are the most obvious examples, though others exist as well. The reason this paralel is important is because Godzilla is also a victim.

Godzilla's design in the original movie is that of a survivor of nuclear bombing. As in, someone who was directly exposed and is suffering accordingly. Unique to this Godzilla, obscured until the end by darkness, are radiation scars that cover him head to toe. His behavior is also patterned off of those unlucky individuals in the wake of the blasts, walking in a daze, bright lights and noises bothering them, sudden fits. Everything about him is intentionally, by the creators, patterned off of the victims of the very act that he embodies.

Fitting as in universe, the whole reason he is awake is because of those atomic testings. A victim and victimizer of atomic war. We see Godzilla in his natural element at the end, where he is calm, peaceful. A pitiful creature. In the end, they kill him with an even worse weapon than the atomic bomb ever could be, only for the dread of another Godzilla appearing to hang over their heads.

We take a detour here to King of the Monsters. The original Gojira is a taught and tightly paced, almost modern in fact, film that builds and builds mounting horrors and terrors until reaching Godzilla. The American version, King of the Monsters, takes that and scratches the record. Instead, we get another horror film genre in its origins here.

The Found Footage Film. The movie opens with a noir-style narration of Raymond Burr, playing a reporter who happened to be in the area. But it specifically opens after Godzilla's attack, after the peak of his destruction, and we work backwards from Raymond Burr's perspective to build back to up that moment. This gives the movie an entirely different edge and tone, and brings it in line with the likes of Cannibal Holocaust as the progenitors of the found footage genre as we know it today. It is a fascinating film, and Raymond Burr's narration is top notch through out, though he tries to end the film on an optimistic note, one of the few missteps.

One line that is applicable here however, and it is one exclusive to the American version and superior I believe, comes from one of the characters convincing the scientist who made the super weapon to use it.

"You have your fears, which may become reality, and you have Godzilla. Which is reality."

All backed up by this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SowvXSmiIXo#t=26s

If you can get into the dated effects- mostly the puppet work- it is a suspenseful, unrelenting classic, that draws on broader, more cultural terrors and horror, while never ignoring the individual victims that hold it up. It is a draining, serious, unapologetic film that pulls no punches.



And like any great horror film, it had a quicky cash in sequel that was rushed out with half the effort and relying more on gimmicks than craftsmanship. Raids Again, funnily enough, could have been even better than the original, but it was so rushed that the highest it could rise was 'mediocre'. Which, following an atomic bomb of a film like Gojira, stings ever more.

Following was Rodan, itself a mild blip on the horror genre as it played with the American trend of giant insect monster movies that were popular back in the day. Only with the twist of the insects merely being the food for a greater terror, which is so far from a spoiler that it's not even worth going into.

Godzilla itself would dip back into horror from time to time, even pulling the all time classic Roger Coreman into its circle to create the American version of Return of Godzilla (1984), Godzilla 1985. Featuring Raymond Burr again! And Doctor Pepper. Though Return of Godzilla itself has some horror elements, most notably the beginning of the film on the boat, with the sea louse. It's another film that emphasizes that Godzilla does not need to act maliciously to DESTROY your life, as well.

Since then, we have smatterings of horror here and there. Notably there is an extended ALIENS rip off scene in Godzilla VS Destroyah that is suitably bonkers and awful. Just a really stupid, bad idea that I'm so happy exists. Also there is GMK Godzilla, who is the embodiment of all the souls wronged by Japan from WWII, acting out of revenge for Japan denying their war crimes and culpability. He is one of the only really malicious Godzillas, accordingly.

Of course, when talking existential horror, Shin is pretty high up there. The, to date, newest Godzilla movie, Shin Godzilla, features one of the most unsettling Gojis out there, who is an abomination of nature and radiation. Constantly changing, mutating to match what harms him, a mistake in the eyes of man who has come to punish them for his very creation- whenever the film focuses on him, it takes a dark turn.

Never mind what his first use of his beam does, and how quickly he could obliterate the status quo of the world.

If you're a horror fan, and you haven't thought much of them, think about looking at the Godzilla franchise. From cheesy, to serious, to horrifying and everywhere in between, you may yet find exactly what you're looking for.

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weekly font
Dec 1, 2004


Everytime I try to fly I fall
Without my wings
I feel so small
Guess I need you baby...





Fart City posted:

TOM ATKINS

Counterpoint: BARBARA CRAMPTON

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