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Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

51% of the appeal of Chuck Norris is his glistening chest hair.

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Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

COOL CORN posted:

I have a hot take and that is that Wes Craven's New Nightmare is a better meta-horror than Scream

I was just arguing this as a guest on a podcast this past weekend, I agree with this take.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

If you go back and look at contemporary reviews of the second Friday the 13th, a bunch of people were confused as poo poo about how Jason was walking around killing people when he supposedly drowned twenty years earlier. It's not as though the first movie was supernatural in any way, so it's a legitimate thing to complain about. Especially when it's literally never explained in the entire series.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Drunkboxer posted:

Yeah I think this is justified because it’s legitimately confusing and undermines the whole narrative of the first movie. In hindsight we all accept it with a shrug but at the time I’m sure it was pretty distracting.

It's also the reason Tom Savini refused to return for the sequel. And he only showed back up for the Final Chapter because, contrary to popular belief, it really was supposed to be the last one, and he wanted to "finish what he started."

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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M_Sinistrari posted:

If I remember rightly, it was covered in the novelization. He came to on the edge of the lake at some point, saw a bunch of police cars at the camp and got scared so he hid in the woods for a bit, then couldn't find his mother so he kept staying in the woods until he saw her head get cut off and went out for revenge.

The novelization of part 2? And even so, it's still cheating, especially when the entire motive for the killer in the first film is the death of someone who is somehow alive and well.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Franchescanado posted:

There's also a spin-off Friday the 13th novel series that looks like Goosebumps but with Jason. They seem less good, but still kinda fun.



I had this entire four-book series when it came out over twenty years ago. I wouldn't call it Goosebumps though, it's actually pretty graphic for a YA series. And they go with the idea that whoever finds the mask is then possessed by Jason. Whereas the Nightmare on Elm Street books that came out around the same time went with mysterious murders happening and then at the end of each one the murderer would be revealed as being possessed by Freddy.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Splint Chesthair posted:

How did they get the mask in the logo SO WRONG?

It's especially weird because the cover art and the descriptions in the books get it right.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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The second one was pretty depressing to me when I was younger. A mentally challenged man severely abused by everyone in his life finds the mask and ends up killing his tormentors, but cries every time and then can’t understand why the heroes are attacking him and begs for his life before being killed himself.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?


Yeah, they tried to make up for it with the third one that takes place at a carnival and Jason's mask possesses a violent alcoholic carnie that hates kids breaking the rules.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

OldTennisCourt posted:

Unfriended: Dark Web is such an awesome movie. I love the radical shift in style the did from the first one too, going from Ghost movie to Internet Snuff Film Society.

I haven't seen either, but I thought "Internet Snuff Film Society" was what the first one was about from the trailer.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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OldTennisCourt posted:

Not really. I can see how you'd get that but the LiveLeak suicide thing was what started the plot, the rest of the first one is basically Skype Ghost except way better than that sounds.

Dark Web was basically a group of friends run afoul of Snuff Film producers.

Yeah, the sequel sounds a lot more interesting.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

I fell asleep three loving times during the remake. Even the worst Freddy films were at least interesting.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

The Dream Child was a strange decision coming off a loving Renny Harlin sequel.

Then again, I feel like 1989 is the year slasher movies died until Scream. People forget what a wasteland the early 90s was.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Not sure how to ask this one...

Horror in the nineties was unique in that the major franchises died out in '89 and there was a last gasp in the early nineties before Scream forced a renaissance in the late nineties. During that time there was a lot of rancid goofy poo poo. Freddy's Dead, Jason Goes to Hell, Halloween 6, the loving Leprechaun series, as well as the Oscar recognition of stuff like Silence of the Lambs which was absolutely a horror movie.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm watching the casino scene from the second Wishmaster movie and realizing that the same kind of scene was also present in the first Wishmaster (museum) and the third Hellraiser (dance club) and I believe a bunch of other poo poo.

So yeah, I have no point.

EDIT: There is a scene in the first Wishmaster that seems to encompass a lot of my problems with 90s horror. During the museum carnage, there is a shot of a violin player getting his bow somehow stuck in his face. Thing is, it's not realistic at all. There's a weird elongated twist of flesh that's shown along the bow. It appears to be purposely played as that very specific comical horror that was dominating the early to mid nineties before Scream woke everyone up.

Pope Corky the IX fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Oct 14, 2019

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Franchescanado posted:

I also think "Scream waking people up" is overstated. There were plenty of meta horror films before Scream.

Oh, I agree, with Wes Craven's New Nightmare being the most obvious example.

I know the examples from Wishmaster I provided are absurd, but that's my point. That's where horror was in the early to mid nineties, starting with '89. It's as though the horror movies during that time had to have a really stupid sense of humor and make sure you knew it while you were watching. I also don't like Friday the 13th VI.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Here's a loaded question...can anyone explain the appeal of Fulci?

I mean, it may be a moot point because I don't enjoy Italian horror in general, but I've found the few movies of his I've seen to be cringingly amateurish and charmless.

And for the record, this is not me saying "Lucio Fulci sucks" but me saying "Can someone explain why I should enjoy him when I personally don't like what I've seen of his work?"

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Thank you for the informed responses without vitriol. I'll give his spaghetti westerns a shot, and if anyone can recommend a horror film that's not like the one I'm about to describe that I cannot remember the name of...

There is a scene where the main character invites an "ugly" woman to come back to his home to try and kill her. She vomits up the poisoned drink he gave her, so then he hits her with a branch(?) and which takes her eye out, then tackles her in the kitchen, then puts her head in the oven, and she keeps coming back. Finally, he kills her somehow, and then has to chop off her legs to get her to fit in the trunk of the car.

Some of that sounds like it could actually be funny, and I enjoy horror comedy like Shaun of the Dead, Return of the Living Dead, etc. But I remember this being loving dire.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Karloff posted:

That seems spurious but unsurprising for Universal who tried to sue Nintendo due to their claim that Donkey Kong infringed upon the copyright of King Kong, except bafflingly they didn't actually own King Kong so they lost.

They did however successfully manage to get The Last Shark (a.k.a Great White) pulled from cinemas due to being too close to Jaws. I believe it's on YouTube though and I keep meaning to get to it.

Sid Sheinberg was a seasoned attorney put in charge of Universal in the 70s/80s and at the time was famously litigious. He literally said "I view litigation as a profit center"

He was the one that fought a protracted legal battle with Terry Gilliam over the final cut of Brazil that spilled over to the industry rags. He also insisted that Back to the Future be called "Space Man from Pluto" until Spielberg acted like it was a big joke and laughed at him until he relented.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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M_Sinistrari posted:

Hollywood in general's always had issues with horror. The studios love the money the genre brings in, but it's always been considered lowbrow entertainment for the plebs. Any time a horror film does well/is popular, Hollywood and the critics'll scramble to call it anything other than horror. The latest label of "Elevated Horror" is possibly the most insulting and condescending one yet.

I also highly HIGHLY recommend the documentary This Film Is Not Yet Rated to see exactly how bullshit the MPAA and the rating system is.

Some of you may be old enough to remember how everyone tried like hell to call Silence of the Lambs anything other than a horror movie, especially when it won all five main Oscars.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Am I loving crazy or is Freddy’s voice different in every movie? I’m obviously not counting the remake, but Englund played him in the other eight and I’m pretty sure it changed from film to film.

EDIT: The only thing I remember being wrong with Cable Guy is the casting of Matthew Broderick because he’s just so loving unconvincing. It’s like he’s a high school drama student reading from the script.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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married but discreet posted:

Get Tobey Maguire

No, don’t do that.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

The second one turned all the "Whoops, shouldn't have phrased your wish in such a way" into an excuse for terrible jokes. For some reason people love the scene where the lawyer fucks himself to death even though it's painfully unfunny and goes on forever.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

What is the opinion of Troma these days? If I'm not mistaken, I don't think they've put out an actual movie in at least a decade, but I'm talking about that renaissance they had between Tromeo & Juliet (or maybe Sgt. Kabukiman?) and Citizen Toxie. I remember enjoying them in my mid-teens, but I tried watching a few scenes recently and I was almost ashamed of myself. For instance, I had completely forgotten just how horrifically transphobic the ending of Terror Firmer is.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

WeaponX posted:

I have yet to see anybody on here really defend Troma. I have a massive amount of respect for the underground, DIY, independent, no rules filmmaking that Troma represents but it is 90% abject trash and not even fun trash.

Oh, I wasn't accusing anyone. And yeah, the indy filmmaking part is just about the only aspect I appreciate at this point. And even then, I'm starting to remember watching a couple of their documentaries and Kaufman being an abusive piece of poo poo towards just about everyone and putting employees in danger on a regular basis.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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feedmyleg posted:

I love Kaufman as a voice (though this is the first time I'm hearing about him being abusive to his crew).

Terror Firmer and Citizen Toxie DVDs were both released with documentaries chronicling the making of each. You can see Kaufman making script changes on an hourly basis and then screaming at the script girl for not keeping up, coming up with ideas for stunts with no regard to anyone's safety, having random tantrums, hiring friends of his to keep costs down who then gently caress everything up, etc.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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david_a posted:

I’m surprised to hear that Troma doesn’t care about safety. In Shudder’s Cursed Films series, they were highlighted in the Twilight Zone episode as being extremely conservative about preventing onset injuries since a lawsuit would completely wipe them out, unlike a large film studio.

I want to say it's Citizen Toxie that has a car driving through a wall and people end up falling off ladders and poo poo and it's obvious Lloyd didn't care.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

I’m talking about their stuff between ‘94 and ‘01, not the stuff from the 80s.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

WeaponX posted:

I have yet to see anybody on here really defend Troma.

You were saying?

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Okay, so I should try and understand how horrifically transphobic the ending of Terror Firmer is? Is this an example of punching up?

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Franchescanado posted:

The movie is literally an exercise in bad taste, offensiveness, low-brow art and countercultural satire. It's the antithesis of being thoughtful and PC, but it's also not sincere or hateful in any of its representations of transgender community, rape, the blind, mental illness, abortions, or the million other things it makes jokes about. If you don't want to be offended, or watch offensive humor, then you should probably never watch a Troma movie ever.

edit: To clarify, that's not a defense of Kaufman putting workers in dangerous conditions, or how little they pay their workers, or arguing that Troma films are quality entertainment. They are schlocky, trashy films with a few things to appreciate (the indie DIY punk attitude, a few films here and there, some of the actors and writers and directors that came from their films). They are definitely of a time and place in film history like Corman's stuff.

I appreciate this reply and agree with most of it. I just have an issue with their “jokes” about rape and trans people for the most part.

And I actually did want a discussion, which is what I said to begin with.

Again, I was a big fan of Troma in my mid to late teens, and now I’m thoroughly embarrassed.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Anyone have any opinions about Return to Horror High? I remember watching it really young and not quite getting how meta it was, especially for 1987. I watched it recently and, while goofy as poo poo, it's got a lot of great ideas for it's time.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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In the first Nightmare on Elm Street, what the gently caress does Rod say to the rest of them at one point? It sounds like either “Up yours with a twirlin’ lawnmower” or “Up yours with a toilin’ lawnmower”

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Thanks, it’s been bothering me for decades because the dude is such a mush mouth.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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So, as someone that's soured on Scream 2 over the years and basically loathed Scream 3, is there any reason to watch Scream 4? I miss Craven and I'm wondering if I should give it a chance.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Franchescanado posted:

There's a really cool moment where a character gets knifed right in between their eyes and then struggles to try and get help, which was based off of Craven reading a news article about a guy that got knifed in between his eyes and drove himself to a hospital and survived.

That's the most notable moment for me.

That's the one scene I've seen of the film and I knew the backstory as well, not sure how I came upon it. It reminds me of "He's killing me!" from Final Chapter which was based on a news article Joseph Zito had read about a man being attacked with a knife in the street and screaming exactly that.

Basebf555 posted:

Yea I think it's worth a watch. It's definitely a back to basics type sequel so I doubt you'll hate it as much as Scream 3. It's probably not going to blow you away though.

I'd appreciate something not so loving convoluted as the second and third. I also had an issue with how hard they leaned on the Dewey and Gale love story along with the slapstick bullshit in Scream 3.

alf_pogs posted:

Kieran Culkin is good in Scream 4

I had no idea he was in it, he's incredible in Succession.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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What about Psycho Cop 2? I was one of the few people laughing my rear end off when the same actor showed up as Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration on the Office.

Also, Robert Davi has been a delusional prick for decades, especially with his Sinatra obsession. Look up any interview with him and he'll go on and on about "So this person told me I'm the only person to sing as well as Frank" which must piss off Joe Piscopo.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Kvlt! posted:

Anyway I watched Critters for the first time last night and I LOVED it but how the gently caress did that get away with being PG its brutal.

What makes it even weirder is that it came out after the PG-13 rating had been introduced with Gremlins as one of the reasons.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Ratings never mattered to me as a kid because my parents and grandmother would let me watch loving anything. I got in trouble at school in the first grade (1989) because I was telling my classmates that Freddy's tongue comes out of the phone when he becomes your boyfriend.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Iron Crowned posted:

Psycho Cop 2/Returns owns IMHO.

Does the first Psycho Cop even exist? I used to see the sequel on cable all the time in the nineties, but never the first one.

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Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

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Gaz2k21 posted:

Well poo poo, looks like I’m buying a Friday the 13th box set, I wonder If Shout Factory ships to the UK, I’ve recently had my 4K player modded to play all region DVD’s and all Zones Blu-Rays so this seems like a good use of it.

I'm sorry, I haven't looked back through the thread for this, but do you have a link? I still have the 1-8 DVD set from like twenty years ago and I would love something better.

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