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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Friday the 13th Part 7 Jason is the best looking slasher villain, fight me

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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


So you know what ultra mega successful and popular franchise is secretly a horror series, just no one ever talks about it in that context because it tends to hide/ignore that fact very well?

Godzilla. Some of you will get this immediately and already be nodding, indeed indeed. A lot of you however, when you think of Godzilla, you're thinking of one of three things.

One of the two American Godzilla films- which have mild elements of horror but in the same way that a disaster movie does.

Maybe Godzilla 2000, the last Japanese Godzilla to be released in American theaters nationwide.

Or this

First, this is the pinnacle of cinema and all naysayers are denied. This singular moment would cure any number of ills and put to rest the numerous woes of the world if it could only be accepted as the brilliance that it is.

The brilliance being, the movie just not giving a gently caress and doing whatever it wants and gently caress you for caring. But that's a whole other discussion for another day. Right now, we're going to focus in on Godzilla: Horror. To understand exactly how this franchise enters the horror frame of mind, beyond just the tangential connection of monster movies that are shared universally, we have to take a step back. We have to take the context of the time, and what informed it.

Actually we don't, so I'll be brief. World War 2, it was a poo poo. Atrocities, racist fuckheads, dogma, and a changing of civilization that swept the world over. WWI was the coming of the modern age of war, where classical ideals clashed with terrifying technology. WWII was the superior sequel with a greater depth of horrors yet unthought of, where instead of just the soldiers getting torn into, we got even more casualties involved. We're not giving a Japan a pass on this either- the Godzilla franchise itself has made note of their culpability in the war crimes they commited, the people they killed.

But Japan didn't do these things in a vacuum and get away with it. Of course there were the atomic bombings which broke the camel's back and ended the war- in the pacific at least. Poland got REAL hosed over but we're not talking about them right now. Before those though, were the fire bombings. Something that tends to be overlooked, how many air strikes were raided on Japanese civilian towns. More damage and more loss of lives are attributed to those events than the atomic bombs themselves. Basically, World War 2 was a poo poo and no one walked away happy.

World War 2 is incredibly important for this discussion because the horrors of it are mundane and depressing, and those are some of the very same horrors that make up Godzilla. Because Godzilla IS a product of World War 2, a response to it and what it had done to the nation of Japan. The people of Japan. To the creators of the work itself. Tsuburaya, the man who gave Godzilla life, was and is one of the most renowned and acknowledged special effects artists in history. His work helped define Japanese culture as it is today, and had a fair bit of influence over seas as well.

Yet it almost all went south because of World War 2. One of his biggest projects before he came back to the limelight in the 50s, was a recreation of Pearl Harbor. The studio he was working for had been tasked by the government to create propaganda films, and he was one of the many cogs in the machine caught in the middle. So he did his work, and reportedly did it so well and meticulously that it was mistaken for actual footage shot of the event.

After WWII, you can well imagine how this was received. When his blackballing was done, he quietly returned to Toho Studios with a full team on his side. He helped craft the visual story of Godzilla in his own way, working with Ishiro Honda and Tanaka hand in hand. Though, a huge element to what makes the original Godzilla so unsettling is his roar. The original roar is very different than what would become popularized, rougher and less warm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRYq58QPTk8

Especially his chilling death cry from the end.

So for a group of men to make a movie that was about a giant monster rising from the ocean, which itself was based on the atomic testings on the Bikini Atoll and the sailors who were killed by it- long, sad story there- you really couldn't have asked for a better line up.

This brings us directly to the original movie. It is a masterpiece of filmmaking, yet because it was released in 1954 it had to share the stage with Rear Window and Seven Samurai, so you know. 1954 was kind of a big year for movies- and horror, as it turns out. From the jump, there is a quiet dread that hangs over the film, especially if you keep in mind the then extremely recent atomic testings and what had happened to Japanese sailors during them. A quiet dread that immediately takes a turn for the violent, ship after ship vanishing in atomic fire within the ocean.

Like any good horror film, the monster is built up. The moment you meet the monster is a monumental moment, but unlike the Universal Horror of old, the angry mob with torches run away from the beast that they had hoped to chase back to the sea. For Godzilla is quite the unique threat- invincible, unstoppable, unknowable. Emerging larger than a mountain, impervious to any and all of man's weapons, able to unleash nuclear fury from his mouth at a whim, Godzilla towers over all other cinematic monsters before him.

Here is the easiest place to find the horror elements of Godzilla, as he systematically eradicates Tokyo, burning it to the ground one block after another, crushing men, women and children alike. Imagery of the firebombings in Japan are evoked, explored, and even referenced. One of the most memorable moments is a widowed mother clutching her children as Godzilla's horror approaches ever closer, promising that they will soon be with their father.

We later find her corpse in one of the many crisis centers, 'hospitals overflowing with the maimed and the dead', to borrow from Raymond Burr in the American version King of the Monsters. More on that in a moment. We find her dead, her children orphans, and possibly doomed themselves to a much worse fate. Because in the aftermath, we find that Godzilla truly is just as vicious and awful as the nuclear fire that awoke him- he leaves radiation in his wake. Dangerous, deathly radiation, that has taken hold of many of the 'survivors' of his wrath. Including, notably, children.

Because the horror of Godzilla's attack isn't his direct actions, but all of the consequences after. Godzilla does not care for individual humans, does not notice them as such. He passes by and all goes to ruin in his wake. Not out of malicious intent- nothing he does is malicious, which is possibly the worst thing of all. Simply because of what he is, devastation follows. He is a horror that cannot co-exist with humanity.

What heightens this tragedy is the reason why I brought up, if only obliquely, Japan's own crimes in the war. Namely, all were victims in the end. There were no victors in war, not when the individuals were concerned. One country that terrorized others would then become victims themselves of another power. Japan and Germany are the most obvious examples, though others exist as well. The reason this paralel is important is because Godzilla is also a victim.

Godzilla's design in the original movie is that of a survivor of nuclear bombing. As in, someone who was directly exposed and is suffering accordingly. Unique to this Godzilla, obscured until the end by darkness, are radiation scars that cover him head to toe. His behavior is also patterned off of those unlucky individuals in the wake of the blasts, walking in a daze, bright lights and noises bothering them, sudden fits. Everything about him is intentionally, by the creators, patterned off of the victims of the very act that he embodies.

Fitting as in universe, the whole reason he is awake is because of those atomic testings. A victim and victimizer of atomic war. We see Godzilla in his natural element at the end, where he is calm, peaceful. A pitiful creature. In the end, they kill him with an even worse weapon than the atomic bomb ever could be, only for the dread of another Godzilla appearing to hang over their heads.

We take a detour here to King of the Monsters. The original Gojira is a taught and tightly paced, almost modern in fact, film that builds and builds mounting horrors and terrors until reaching Godzilla. The American version, King of the Monsters, takes that and scratches the record. Instead, we get another horror film genre in its origins here.

The Found Footage Film. The movie opens with a noir-style narration of Raymond Burr, playing a reporter who happened to be in the area. But it specifically opens after Godzilla's attack, after the peak of his destruction, and we work backwards from Raymond Burr's perspective to build back to up that moment. This gives the movie an entirely different edge and tone, and brings it in line with the likes of Cannibal Holocaust as the progenitors of the found footage genre as we know it today. It is a fascinating film, and Raymond Burr's narration is top notch through out, though he tries to end the film on an optimistic note, one of the few missteps.

One line that is applicable here however, and it is one exclusive to the American version and superior I believe, comes from one of the characters convincing the scientist who made the super weapon to use it.

"You have your fears, which may become reality, and you have Godzilla. Which is reality."

All backed up by this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SowvXSmiIXo#t=26s

If you can get into the dated effects- mostly the puppet work- it is a suspenseful, unrelenting classic, that draws on broader, more cultural terrors and horror, while never ignoring the individual victims that hold it up. It is a draining, serious, unapologetic film that pulls no punches.



And like any great horror film, it had a quicky cash in sequel that was rushed out with half the effort and relying more on gimmicks than craftsmanship. Raids Again, funnily enough, could have been even better than the original, but it was so rushed that the highest it could rise was 'mediocre'. Which, following an atomic bomb of a film like Gojira, stings ever more.

Following was Rodan, itself a mild blip on the horror genre as it played with the American trend of giant insect monster movies that were popular back in the day. Only with the twist of the insects merely being the food for a greater terror, which is so far from a spoiler that it's not even worth going into.

Godzilla itself would dip back into horror from time to time, even pulling the all time classic Roger Coreman into its circle to create the American version of Return of Godzilla (1984), Godzilla 1985. Featuring Raymond Burr again! And Doctor Pepper. Though Return of Godzilla itself has some horror elements, most notably the beginning of the film on the boat, with the sea louse. It's another film that emphasizes that Godzilla does not need to act maliciously to DESTROY your life, as well.

Since then, we have smatterings of horror here and there. Notably there is an extended ALIENS rip off scene in Godzilla VS Destroyah that is suitably bonkers and awful. Just a really stupid, bad idea that I'm so happy exists. Also there is GMK Godzilla, who is the embodiment of all the souls wronged by Japan from WWII, acting out of revenge for Japan denying their war crimes and culpability. He is one of the only really malicious Godzillas, accordingly.

Of course, when talking existential horror, Shin is pretty high up there. The, to date, newest Godzilla movie, Shin Godzilla, features one of the most unsettling Gojis out there, who is an abomination of nature and radiation. Constantly changing, mutating to match what harms him, a mistake in the eyes of man who has come to punish them for his very creation- whenever the film focuses on him, it takes a dark turn.

Never mind what his first use of his beam does, and how quickly he could obliterate the status quo of the world.

If you're a horror fan, and you haven't thought much of them, think about looking at the Godzilla franchise. From cheesy, to serious, to horrifying and everywhere in between, you may yet find exactly what you're looking for.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Hollismason posted:

Grindr location services are not accurate like at all.

Yours keeps sending me to the hospital it's weird

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


TOOT BOOT posted:

I was super down for the proposed found-footage Friday the 13th sequel but it never ended up happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K_wkQSM8xM

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Hollismason posted:

I'm really into lost world stuff right now so more B movie stuff like that which is good I am down for.

You ever see Angry Red Planet?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Same with a lot of foreign productions.

Up to the 70s more was dubbed over than not

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Hatchet, the original, was basically just a movie to watch for the gore effects and cameos and that was it

Unless they ever topped the near seamless bisecting of someone, I don't see any reason to watch the sequels

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Can we take Art the Clown away from his creator and put him in better films?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Hollismason posted:

I should get around to watching Big Man Japan but I always get turned off by the special effects.

Wait til the ending

The ending makes it all worth it

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Wait a loving minute

Did you motherfuckers just talk about loving head explosions and then leave out the best mother loving head explosion in all of loving cinema?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9pgWPsUeTU

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Burkion posted:

Wait a loving minute

Did you motherfuckers just talk about loving head explosions and then leave out the best mother loving head explosion in all of loving cinema?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9pgWPsUeTU

This outrage will not be buried!

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


7 has the best looking Jason

8 has Jason kill people in some inventive ways

6 has some great 80s self aware humor

4 is the most early 80s Slasher ever

2 is the first movie again but Jason is here now

3 has the Jason actually in it

5 is the most mean spirited, ugly film and is great for those reasons. if you don't like mean spirited trash, you're not going to like it

9 UNRATED, NOT THEATRICAL, has some awesome gore effects and great kills and a killer director's commentary

VS is fun as gently caress and has the goriest final fight in any movie short of a Japanese Gore movie

And the RemakeReboot12Whatever is a blast with some good back to basics stuff and some new meanness. Also gratuitous nudity out the rear end

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Tolkien minority posted:

Weird I didn’t know I was posting in the “bad opinions on Friday the 13th” thread

I mean you're in teh horror thread so why are you surprised

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Hellraiser is a good movie but it's not good for the reasons that people typically associate with the name "Hellraiser", and it's disappointingly watered down from the novella in some ways.

Like it's more about Julia deliberately self-destructing because she's bored and constrained by her marriage and Kirsty getting caught up in her murder-drama than it is about Frank or Hell or the Cenobites.

I'm fine with it because Hellraiser 2 sets up the fact that Julia is the REAL villain of the movies


And then they gently caress up real bad

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Catfishenfuego posted:

Man I just watched Creep and Creep 2 and that was such a jump in quality it was kind of ridiculous.

Creep 2 almost wouldn't be as good as it is, and it is amazing, without Creep preceding it

It's one of those things that not only is the sequel better, it's better in the context of building and surpassing what was there

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


The story is also flat out inferior to the original game in every aspect.

The story for the first movie is kind of psychotic in how bad it is

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Boondocks Saints is an excellent film guys


It's about two psychopaths who are convinced they're right, slaughtering a bunch of people and getting punished for it because they're the villains

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Kvlt! posted:

we literally do nothing but talk about movies where giant psychopaths mindless and viciously butcher people all day but boondock saints is where you people draw a moral line thats really fuckin weird

Freddy Kruger isn't the good guy in his movies

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Here

Let's have a more positive message

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ-vLZBiCNI

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Rageaholic Monkey posted:

https://twitter.com/paulmac708/status/1086369219107786753

I say A Serbian Film, but what do y'all think? There are a bunch of good Lars Von Trier candidates too.

Anti Christ is always a good one

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


ThePagey posted:

This actually makes me wonder what film you would intentionally show a bunch of 10 year olds with the intent of loving them up as much as possible.

What's the fake Emmanuelle with bestiality in it?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Hollismason posted:

Yeah I mean most castrations in horror aren't true castrations they just take off the frank and leave the beans. Like Cannibal Holocaust they just cut off his penis , but Hostel 2 she cuts off the dick whole and tosses it.

Rarer still is something that just targets the balls

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


CelticPredator posted:

That movie looks like rear end.

Oh it is

But you gotta take your castrations where you get them

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Pomp posted:

It owns because by having to check and subscribe to 200 streaming services they've just renewed the appeal of piracy

Yar and a yo ho ho

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


STAC Goat posted:

I know I was into Unsolved Mysteries as a kid but I also am pretty sure it was solely for the weekly UFO abduction segment and the occasional haunted house one. And I've been way over that whole alien thing ever since girls stopped being icky.

Did girls stop being icky


Or did you just get MINDWASHED by the big foot alien extraterrestrials?


The case remains unsolved

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Pomp posted:

did stonehenge really shoot a laser at a dude

Seasons of the Witch would point to yes


Speaking of Halloween- I Think 2 might be better than the new one. The original 2.

Like in context of the first movie, it really depends on what kind of sequel you want

Do you want one that picks up immediately after or do you want one that takes place years later. Just, with 2, there's still a lot of good camera work and cinematography, and the deaths are pretty great.

Halloween The New One, if I had anything to really complain about, it's the fact that the deaths kind of suck and almost all happen off screen. ANd the REAL thing to complain about- they almost NEVER use Michael the Shape appropriately. They don't play with background shots or having him be in the open but out of focus. There's no fun Michael stalking moments where if you're looking, you can JUUUUUST see him.

I know this is because John Carpenter isn't directing so they don't have his eye for that kind of thing but Jesus I wish they had at least tried.

Half the fun of Michael is noticing when he's milling about in the background. Or, at times, in the foreground.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


CelticPredator posted:

I hate Marlon Brando.

That's okay

I'm pretty sure he did too

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Fart City posted:

Its kind of fascinating to watch Depp look at late-90’s Robert Downey Jr. and say, “that’s the ticket.”

He's really counting on that career revival after the total destruction

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Also quick question


Did Stan Against Evil improve at all after the first season?

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Does anyone have an article on best episodes from Thiller or some such?

One unfortunate problem with hour long shows from the early 60s was that the scripts were often super padded and meandering- a problem that plagues the Outer Limits from start to finish with few exceptions

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!



...Very curious how this is going to tie together. I had thought that this would be a collection of short stories, like the books themselves.

Like an anthology movie, but with each one taking up only 10-15 minutes or so.


But nothing about this resembles the Dream, which is where that lady comes from

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


This is your timely reminder that Creep 2 owns everyone's bones and deserves to be remembered as an all time great goddamn horror film.

Easily one of the best found footage ones.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Hollismason posted:

I don't know if Lloyd Kaufman should be on the horror monument.

He's hiding inside of the monument, probably in his underwear

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


I miss Herman Munster though, no lie

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Argue posted:

Not available in my location but here's another:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5lCpB_RLaM

How fuckin old are we that Aubrey Plaza has to play the mom now instead of the monster in a horror film

Jesus Christ

I find it kind of sad that Andy is like

He's what 12 here? Fucker was 8 at most in the first movie. I think 6? That's part of what makes it work so well. The younger Andy is, the more of a threat Chucky is. Chucky basically does not work as a physical threat to anyone that is above the age of ten unless they're disabled in some way or he has the element of surprise.

Even six year old Andy in the first Child's Play kicked his rear end head to head.

"This is the end, friend!"

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Kvlt! posted:

When I was a small child the cover art for TCM: The Beggining TERRIFIED me but I still wanted to see it

Oh right you're super young

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


I lay claim to Mikadroid: Robokill Beneath Discoclub Layla

So get hosed

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Holli, this sounds like everything I have ever wanted and everything I have ever needed

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I can't think of a bad scarecrow movie frankly.

Scarecrow Slayer is a pretty lovely sequel to Scarecrow but Scarecrow Gone Wild almost pulls it back

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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


I'm not joking for the record.

Scarecrow (2002), Scarecrow Slayer (2003) and Scarecrow Gone Wild (2004) are all real things

You also have Scarecrows, probably the best one, Messenger 2 The Scarecrow

From there you gotta get more esoteric

But Haunting Hour, the other RL Stines kids anthology horror series which is actually really good and has a whole two parter about Christopher Loyd as a vampire grandfather who battles other vampire grandparents to save his grand kids from being eaten- it has a Scarecrow episode as well

A really, really good one, though one ending is WAY better htan the other so you gotta make sure which version you're watching first

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