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univbee
Jun 3, 2004




SeANMcBAY posted:

I’m still shocked we got as much as we did from the Nintendo gigaleak. I’m surprised they kept all that stuff from the 80s and 90s.

I suspect Nintendo had the advantage of being a very old company with some historical significance already, and had a good sense of their importance in the world of video games very quickly. Like when most companies were playing it fast and loose like I mentioned earlier, they still had a bit of a sense on things, like I'm sure in the late 80s/early 90s if you went to Nintendo HQ in Japan they'd have had a properly themed lobby area with statues and tchotchkes under glass like a museum, it wasn't just a smoke-filled office filled with generic stressed-out men in ties.

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DarkSol
May 18, 2006

Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.

Pablo Nergigante posted:

There's been a VWF patch for 24 years. Not sure if it's compatible with other hacks https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/18/

Oh I know... I am part of the staff at RHDN. I'm just belly-aching about the fixed width font in SoM, especially the NTSC font.

Pablo Nergigante
Apr 16, 2002

DarkSol posted:

Oh I know... I am part of the staff at RHDN. I'm just belly-aching about the fixed width font in SoM, especially the NTSC font.

Oh gotcha, sorry!

Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004

16 bit? Back when we was kids we only got a single bit on Christmas, as a treat
And we had to share it!

univbee posted:

it's not surprising they're not going to take extra time to preserve any scrap of unused content if they're not explicitly asked to do so

One exception to this in Square's case was Yoshitaka Amano concept art. The FF 1-6 Pixel remasters had a large collection of high quality scans from original artwork (without the four color rosettes seen in print) that I haven't seen before or hadn't been used in strategy guide art. So they must have had some sort of archive for that stuff.


SeANMcBAY posted:

I’m still shocked we got as much as we did from the Nintendo gigaleak. I’m surprised they kept all that stuff from the 80s and 90s.

They probably have a full time archivist, just like microsoft https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdJ8_I0K4is

Looking at Random Stranger's Famidaily and comparing company output is pretty wild. Every Nintendo release is usually pretty polished while a third of the other titles have that certain "this was a month from zero to release" and it's like comparing a local baseball team to an MLB team with professional trainers and coaches and players dedicated full time.

DarkSol posted:

Oh I know... I am part of the staff at RHDN. I'm just belly-aching about the fixed width font in SoM, especially the NTSC font.

I'd like to combine Fusoya's VWF font with the recent re-translation https://www.romhacking.net/translations/5765/

But I also like how the commercial M2 rom hack uses the SNES high res mode for displaying text (apparently switching resolutions mid frame) so they're able to cram a lot more text on screen than the original Neil Corlett hack.

Coffee Jones fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Mar 11, 2024

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar

univbee posted:

I suspect Nintendo had the advantage of being a very old company with some historical significance already, and had a good sense of their importance in the world of video games very quickly. Like when most companies were playing it fast and loose like I mentioned earlier, they still had a bit of a sense on things, like I'm sure in the late 80s/early 90s if you went to Nintendo HQ in Japan they'd have had a properly themed lobby area with statues and tchotchkes under glass like a museum, it wasn't just a smoke-filled office filled with generic stressed-out men in ties.

One of the more depressing things about the gigaleak is that it seemed a few of the backup tapes had gone bad. :negative:

But it's impossible to say if those were the only archive (now lost) or if it was simply an error on the part of the person exfiltrating data. Supposedly there was a handful of other stuff that was explicitly not released...

bbcisdabomb
Jan 15, 2008

SHEESH

Zamujasa posted:

Supposedly there was a handful of other stuff that was explicitly not released...

When's Nintendo going to release their full copy of Super Hornio Brothers 3?!

DarkSol
May 18, 2006

Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.

Pablo Nergigante posted:

Oh gotcha, sorry!

Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to flex. (I wasn't.) :sweatdrop:

Konstantin
Jun 20, 2005
And the Lord said, "Look, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what they will do; nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.

univbee posted:

I suspect Nintendo had the advantage of being a very old company with some historical significance already, and had a good sense of their importance in the world of video games very quickly. Like when most companies were playing it fast and loose like I mentioned earlier, they still had a bit of a sense on things, like I'm sure in the late 80s/early 90s if you went to Nintendo HQ in Japan they'd have had a properly themed lobby area with statues and tchotchkes under glass like a museum, it wasn't just a smoke-filled office filled with generic stressed-out men in ties.

There's a reason why Miyamoto stayed there his entire career. You have to figure the man turned down seven figure offers on many occasions.

Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004

16 bit? Back when we was kids we only got a single bit on Christmas, as a treat
And we had to share it!
If money isn’t as much of a motivating factor, I can see how he can turn his nose up at a company producing a “We got one of these too!” games. Like “Sure you can offer me a dump truck full of money but, I don’t respect what you make.” or you hear complaints of producers taking an overly data driven approach to design “The 5 most popular games in this genre all have these elements.”
I’d like to hear him really poo poo-talk a game’s design.

There are also some offhand comments about how it’s only now that he’s confident enough leaving Nintendo in the hands of future designers. I wonder what that entailed? This is a Nintendo that produced an old school 2D Mario game like Super Mario Wonder in 2023 and still had boatloads of ideas and a mature design sensibility because they’ve been continuously evolving this type of game over the decades.

I guess a lot of why he stuck with Nintendo really is tied in with Nintendo’s unique position in the industry


E: we only see bits and pieces of what he’s truly into - like he’s more into ‘interaction design’ over anything. Like Mario Run is a one button game that he had a large hand in. Or a big story heavy Zelda game like Twilight Princess isn’t as interesting as, say, Tamagotchi or Street Pass.

Coffee Jones fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Mar 13, 2024

Ofecks
May 4, 2009

A portly feline wizard waddles forth, muttering something about conjured food.

It might be simpler than that. I've heard that employees having lifelong positions at a single company is just part of Japanese business/work culture. Or at least was, before the turn of the century.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty
Yeah, job hopping was basically unheard of, as was getting fired.

Poor performers would just get put in tedious and/or lovely positions and ignored until the employee decided to quit.

But think that's changed for some companies, but older ones probably still have that lifelong employment culture.

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe
Nintendo is notoriously old school Japanese corporate culture too, don't know how much that's changed in the past few years but when the Switch made a splash I remember seeing some market commentary about American investors impulse buying Nintendo shares and then being very confused when they started looking into what they'd just bought.

Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004

16 bit? Back when we was kids we only got a single bit on Christmas, as a treat
And we had to share it!
I was looking at a some emulator setups for raspberry pi and Steamdeck and I noticed how many of them include a few homebrew roms for various systems but there’s hardly a central repository of them like the commercial releases

So there’s itch.io collections
https://itch.io/c/1044509/list-of-nes-homebrews

And RHDN
https://www.romhacking.net/homebrew/

But outside of that?

Ofecks
May 4, 2009

A portly feline wizard waddles forth, muttering something about conjured food.

The notable ones generally are included in full/complete No-Intro sets. They are marked as "(Aftermarket)" and/or "(Unl)". Even the commercially available games, which is kinda scummy of the No-Intro dataset overlords.

Here's a bunch for old Sega systems: https://www.smspower.org/Homebrew/Index

Griddle of Love
May 14, 2020


If you've got a 2DS/3DS/WiiU kicking around, and want to contribute to gaming preservation with minimal effort, you got about a two-week window.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4056922#post538511639

ExiledTinkerer
Nov 4, 2009
After all these years, it would seem we are about to arrive at (Turbo) Illusion City~

https://www.msxtranslations.com/ic.php

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
hot drat look at that effort

Big Bizness
Jun 19, 2019

ExiledTinkerer posted:

After all these years, it would seem we are about to arrive at (Turbo) Illusion City~

https://www.msxtranslations.com/ic.php


Cool to see a character design so similar to MGS4 Snake in an MSX game.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

whoops wrong thread

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

Mater Dolorosa
So what are some of the best Mario 64 romhacks that are, like, full on new games/content like Star Road and whatnot?

Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004

16 bit? Back when we was kids we only got a single bit on Christmas, as a treat
And we had to share it!
https://www.romhacking.net/?page=hacks&category=&platform=&game=847&perpage=200&order=&title=&dir=&hacksearch=Go
Eh, just search the database

RHDN does a lousy job curating collections of hacks. At least they’re categorized. But, anything Kaze makes looks head and shoulders above anything
https://youtu.be/L5J6rt45K2Q?feature=shared

I guess some YouTubers desperate for content are eager to put together compilation videos, too.

Procrastine
Mar 30, 2011


RoboChrist 9000 posted:

So what are some of the best Mario 64 romhacks that are, like, full on new games/content like Star Road and whatnot?

For Mario 64, try https://romhacking.com/hacks, you can filter by star count. I don't have much personal experience so I can't give any specific recommendations, sorry

Alternately, B3313

is pepsi ok
Oct 23, 2002

This is pretty cool - Chip 'n Dale for the NES ported to the SNES with MSU-1 support.

https://twitter.com/rumbleminze/status/1778224430520402315#m

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxgfViTKpT8

DarkSol
May 18, 2006

Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.

Coffee Jones posted:

https://www.romhacking.net/?page=hacks&category=&platform=&game=847&perpage=200&order=&title=&dir=&hacksearch=Go
Eh, just search the database

RHDN does a lousy job curating collections of hacks. At least they’re categorized. But, anything Kaze makes looks head and shoulders above anything.

Sent you a PM about the curating thing. What would you want changed to make it better?

Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004

16 bit? Back when we was kids we only got a single bit on Christmas, as a treat
And we had to share it!
I apologize for throwing out the word "Abysmal" and then loving off - that doesn't help anyone.
And ... part of giving constructive feedback is framing the problem - (but since I'm only casually part of this, all I can do is describe my experience as a semi-normie)

Spitballing a few questions some people might have when visiting RHDN

I like Zelda 2 - but the game is too hard, what's out there that'll make my experience better?

I like Megaman - but I've played it a dozen times , what other megaman games are out there - are there any mods that are interesting

square RPGs were a big part of my childhood - what other old school RPGs are out there that are worth a spin?
(as an aside when Live-A-Live remake came out and the combination of "I've never heard of this!" "But the translation has been out for twenty years!" - is like watching ripe fruit die on the vine. Rom hackers aren't under an obligation to publicize their work but this poo poo gets memory holed over the decades.)

I'm in my teens and all I know of retro gaming is whatever nintendo puts on the switch online service. What is this site - what do I do here?

I grew up on fan subbed VHS anime - and there are lots of tie-in games, all Japanese only. Are there games based on Slayers or Rurouni Kenshin?

I saw some progress of a beta patch for a game I like, but I can't be bothered to check RHDN all the time because I split my time between Reddit and Bulbapedia. How can I be alerted when a patch is released?

I'm three beers in on a Sunday night. I wanted to play Breath of Fire 2 with a proper translation, and the on-the-spectrum nerd packaged a 100kb readme in the zip file along with a dozen ips files for turning on individual hacks on top of a single main one. I don't have the inclination to look at any of this poo poo. WTF guys?

I like Sega Saturn - 70% of the library never made outside of japan. Half these titles are in japanese - I don't know what's what
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qmgZriNL_I - I was at Portland Retro for this talk last year and it seemed the Saturn scene is really cooking.

And one question that kicked this off

Procrastine posted:

I don't have much personal experience so I can't give any specific recommendations, sorry
I like Mario World and Mario 64 - but there's dozens of hacks, I don't want to have to view a youtube page or trawl through message boards for recommendations, cross reference them with what RHDN already provides, download the appropriate patching software - only to find out the patch needs the 1.0 JP version of Mario World.


The two general problems are -
- Guidance - I'm not familiar with anything in the 80's and 90's and I want someone to show me what's cool.
- Discoverability - Given a database of hundreds of hacks, how do I find what's what's been released and what's interesting to me.

As far as solutions...
- Guidance can be addressed by creating guide articles around specific themes, "SNES Rpgs you've missed" "Let's revisit NES games in a new light" - something like "Are you new here?" that provides a bit more hand holding and introduces systems and genres.

- Discoverability - I'm thinking you could do a lot more with tagging individual games and hacks. Like Slayers here could be tagged "Anime tie-in". Terranigma 60hz NTSC patch - could be tagged "Notable Minor Improvement Hack" while something like Zelda 2 Redux
can be tagged as a "Notable Major improvement hack."

You don't have to write guides or tag up every little entry in the database, but you can definitely cover which games people already care about as a primary idea (say zelda 2 hacks), and directing them to stuff they could be looking at as a secondary goal (Battle of Olympus, Faxanadu, etc)


One other thing -
Having a copy of a rom patcher on hand is a pain. This online patcher is a cool idea and it supports multiple formats - https://www.marcrobledo.com/RomPatcher.js/
BUT even better if RHDN hosted a patcher where I could be viewing, say Guardian Legend Secret Edition, upload "Guardian Legend [U][i].zip" and get back "Guardian Legend - Hack - Guardian Legend Secret Edition v3.2.zip all hot n' ready for dropping onto an Everdrive - maybe include the readme or other metadata in the zip so we have some context what "Guardian Legend Secret Edition" even is.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty
RHDN person, hire this Goon.

Like 3/4 of the issues they describe areas ones I've had using the site over the years.

I will say however that RHDN is easier to parse than all the crap that is buried on GBATemp forums lmao.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido

Personally I think the only way I find anything on RHDN is either by knowing exactly what I was already looking for or just loading up all new hacks across all games and systems and sorting by release date to see what's come out in the last month or two since I last looked.

holefoods
Jan 10, 2022

My major problem with RHDN is that the categories are too broad. When I’m looking for just QoL patches, most of them are housed under improvements but there are also a significant amount of hacks living in that category that significantly alter content/add new content/change story.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010

An issue with that, though, is that a lot of hacks straddle multiple categories. How granular do you want things to be? What do you consider a QoL change, and at what point do they transition to major gameplay changes?

There's a bunch of things that need codifying, or you'll be looking at a website made entirely of edge cases and one-off categories.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Kurui Reiten posted:

An issue with that, though, is that a lot of hacks straddle multiple categories. How granular do you want things to be? What do you consider a QoL change, and at what point do they transition to major gameplay changes?
Realistically, that's the point where you switch from singular categories to a collection of predefined tags (like "level changes" "quality of life" "translation" "msu-1", etc. etc.), where hacks can attach themselves to multiple and you can search/sort by multiple tags at once.

At that point you kinda need a whole new website system, though.

DarkSol
May 18, 2006

Gee, I wish we had one of them doomsday machines.

The Kins posted:

Realistically, that's the point where you switch from singular categories to a collection of predefined tags (like "level changes" "quality of life" "translation" "msu-1", etc. etc.), where hacks can attach themselves to multiple and you can search/sort by multiple tags at once.

At that point you kinda need a whole new website system, though.

I'll take all the ideas and suggestions I can get. Maybe I can convince Nightcrawler to implement some of them.

:ssh: I don't want to go into too much detail, but a few of us are looking into a whole new website.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty

DarkSol posted:

I'll take all the ideas and suggestions I can get. Maybe I can convince Nightcrawler to implement some of them.

:ssh: I don't want to go into too much detail, but a few of us are looking into a whole new website.

I did volunteer work years ago for a now long defunct video game database site, and one of my jobs was manually inputting things like tags, based on data imported from MobyGames. So like, the tool imported box art and publisher/developer, then I'd go add tags like described above.

It was a massive amount of manual work trying to do that for every game ever, and was a big reason the site never got off the ground, but finding stuff in the database was super easy if it was one of the tagged games.

Setting up a system like that nowadays would be way easier if users were submitting info for their projects and filling out the data, and just needed a quick once over to ensure accuracy.

Also, not importing thousands of games with a tool that did subpar automatic scraping and having a 15 year old manually editing them all afterwards would help :v:

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
Wonder what website it was :v:

I've heard a lot of rumbling about RHDN and its future. I'm not sure what's going on with that website and the details I'm privy to don't make a lot of sense.

The site design is kind of silly though, random-rear end screenshots of things with no real details is useful to... who, exactly?

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty

Zamujasa posted:

Wonder what website it was :v:

I've heard a lot of rumbling about RHDN and its future. I'm not sure what's going on with that website and the details I'm privy to don't make a lot of sense.

The site design is kind of silly though, random-rear end screenshots of things with no real details is useful to... who, exactly?

I'd almost guarantee you never heard of it.

Well, maybe. I'm reluctant to name it in case the guy who started it read my bad mouthing the database stuff. Everyone on that site, from the owner to the volunteers to the users were really cool people, and I don't want to give a bad impression of it. Lord knows I don't know the first thing about running a website so I'm sure my gripes were a lot easier to think up than they were to resolve.

grieving for Gandalf
Apr 22, 2008

most people playing romhacks like those hosted on then are probably ancient at this point. a starter pack of "here's what's cool" for people new to the scene is an idea, but at that rate I feel silly recommending romhacks of Final Fantasy 4 or Chrono Trigger to someone who's never played the vanilla versions

Mischievous Mink
May 29, 2012

One tag I'd love to see would be an original hardware compatible tag, vs emulator only. I have a mister and it's not always clear to me if a hack is intended for emulator use only or not.

SeANMcBAY
Jun 28, 2006

Look on the bright side.



Mischievous Mink posted:

One tag I'd love to see would be an original hardware compatible tag, vs emulator only. I have a mister and it's not always clear to me if a hack is intended for emulator use only or not.

I’d like this too. Most have been working though for me on my Analogue Pocket. I’ve only noticed issues with really old hacks.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
This morning I was idly flicking through the google now feed and there was one that was a rhdn review for a princess peach streets of rage 2 romhack, posted by a guy using his full name as his username, complaining about pantyshots

Thanks google and thank you rhdn!

univbee
Jun 3, 2004




Mischievous Mink posted:

One tag I'd love to see would be an original hardware compatible tag, vs emulator only. I have a mister and it's not always clear to me if a hack is intended for emulator use only or not.

Yeah this is a big one, especially for stuff that expects non-standard emulator approaches (e.g. how that FF6 T-Hack's music only sounds correct either on old versions of SNES9X or a newer SNES9X with a weird setting changed).

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Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004

16 bit? Back when we was kids we only got a single bit on Christmas, as a treat
And we had to share it!
Yeah, you're absolutely right about that. Actual hardware is the only real 'spec'. People who produce patches that are workarounds for emulator bugs or if an emulator has different behavior than hardware on the same code are making everyone chase a moving target.

There are N64 hacks are emulator-only because of a combination of N64 not being understood too well and accurate emulators or flash drives are only being available within the last ten years - give or take.
Mario 64 decompliation project was only completed in the last few years. There's a lot more confidence that a compiler and Nintendo's N64 SDK produces something the N64 expects vs. "Here's what we could get working by poking around in a hex editor."

E:
There's this article from Byuu/Near (rip, what a loving loss) and it mentions a level in the "Speedy Gonzalez" SNES game that crashes on Snes9x because of hacky coding but it works fine on real hardware.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/
And this article mentions "Emulation Whack-A-Mole" and how fixing one bug can make others appear.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/06/how-snes-emulators-got-a-few-pixels-from-complete-perfection/

Coffee Jones fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Apr 16, 2024

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