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I'd be fine hanging out if I could get XP, but the only way I can do that is to attack things. I'm Looting this turn and then I have nothing to do if we're waiting for the Brute to suck up three coins.
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Jan 2, 2019 17:41
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Some Numbers posted:Guilty. Feature, not bug. We can do it in 3: 1. Bullwinkle loot B2, 2. Bullwinkle loot G3, 3. Rocky punches the Archer dead to gain 1xp and Bullwinkle moves to loot afterwards. I can use my move 4 to grab the coin all the way in the hex A1. Scenario 2 is a bit tougher, so I think having another item on the Brute will be very helpful. Reik fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 17:42
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Reik posted:We can do it in 3: I like this plan.
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Jan 2, 2019 17:57
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Ugh, fine, I'll see if there's a do-nothing turn I can fit in there.
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Jan 2, 2019 17:59
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In theory Rocky could set up the bottom of Nature's Lift and Bullwinkle generate wind in Round 12 allowing, rocky to throw a Boulder at the archer in round 13 and trigger both persistent effects to gain 2xp. Oo, if you heal to generate earth in round 12 you can dirt tornado in round 13 to generate 3 xp. You'll just have to short rest so you can get back a card capable of going faster than Bullwinkle in round 13.
Reik fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 18:00
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Can I get the XP from Backup Ammunition with no actual extra target? Edit: a quick Google search confirms that I do. Okay, this is getting more enticing. So I'll Loot this turn and do a blank top. Next turn I'll set up Nature's Lift on the bottom and charge Earth while Brute charges wind and then I'll finish off the Archer the turn after? Some Numbers fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 18:02
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I understand the intent of having the session end as soon as the objective is accomplished, but giving incentives to the players to "game" the enemies this way is one of the few problems I have with Gloomhaven. We usually just eyeball the last couple of turns unless it's down to the wire (or a chest, because those are nice surprises). Not saying that the players shouldn't try to hoover every last coin and milk every last enemy, of course, just general whining about the game and it's mechanics.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:03
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Some Numbers posted:Can I get the XP from Backup Ammunition with no actual extra target? Yes, you have to advance the token, gain the xp, and waste the +1 target. Fat Samurai posted:I understand the intent of having the session end as soon as the objective is accomplished, but giving incentives to the players to "game" the enemies this way is one of the few problems I have with Gloomhaven. We usually just eyeball the last couple of turns unless it's down to the wire (or a chest, because those are nice surprises). Well, this was only possible because we soundly beat the scenario. If we were doing this on difficulty +1 instead of -1, it would be a very different ending.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:03
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Fat Samurai posted:I understand the intent of having the session end as soon as the objective is accomplished, but giving incentives to the players to "game" the enemies this way is one of the few problems I have with Gloomhaven. We usually just eyeball the last couple of turns unless it's down to the wire (or a chest, because those are nice surprises). The scenario ends at the end of the round after the objective is achieved. There's nothing in the rules that says we can't milk the last enemy for as much XP and coins as we can.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:07
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Some Numbers posted:Can I get the XP from Backup Ammunition with no actual extra target? Yeah, you just have to short rest after round 12 because your only 2 remaining cards are initiative 82 and 87.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:11
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Slight wrinkle: Nature's Lift actually gives XP on even numbered activations, so I won't get that third point of XP.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:14
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Some Numbers posted:Slight wrinkle: Nature's Lift actually gives XP on even numbered activations, so I won't get that third point of XP. I blame the schools. 2 xp ain't bad.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:16
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Some Numbers posted:The scenario ends at the end of the round after the objective is achieved. There's nothing in the rules that says we can't milk the last enemy for as much XP and coins as we can. Is there an actual reason for this, like some scenarios having events that trigger immediately on completion? Because the last game I played gave everyone one round after finishing for looting reasons, but that was because when maps were over, they were over, and nothing "happened" afterwards.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:16
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Is there an actual reason for this, like some scenarios having events that trigger immediately on completion? Because the last game I played gave everyone one round after finishing for looting reasons, but that was because when maps were over, they were over, and nothing "happened" afterwards. If you meet the objective but then all exhaust before the end of the round, you actually lose the scenario. Scenario completion is only evaluated at the end of the round, but losing the scenario due to all players being exhausted is evaluated immediately.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:18
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Also not having time to hoover up all the loot is an intentional gameplay mechanic. In our home games we rarely end up with more than a couple coins on each character (unless someone is playing the Scoundrel, who is very, very good at looting).
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Jan 2, 2019 18:33
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Okay, I sent in my updated orders to allow for maximum xp/looting. Gonna stun the archer in round 11 (does no damage, no chance of killing), grab the coin in A1 in round 12, and summon an ally in round 13.
Reik fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 18:36
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Some Numbers posted:The scenario ends at the end of the round after the objective is achieved. There's nothing in the rules that says we can't milk the last enemy for as much XP and coins as we can. Yeah, I know. I'm talking about how the game is designed, not what you three are doing. It's mechanically sound (you want more loot? You have to take risks by leaving enemies around. Also, the other players may be jerks and grab the money first) but it kinda goes against what it's expected of a dungeon crawl (kill the baddies, then get the loot). Personal preference.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:47
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Gloomhaven definitely has a few elements that make only partial sense "fluff-wise" or from a traditional DnD/Dungeon Crawling point of view; the reason for this is obviously game balance, which is something I, too, would prioritize over fluff. I was shocked to discover - at first - that players are not allowed to share money or items...which I guess makes sense for a group of mercenaries, but less so since the party is normally depicted/played as a tighter group.
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Jan 2, 2019 18:59
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One big problem with co-ops is quarterbacking, and I'm pretty sure the imperfect information in card selection, battle goals, and competing for loot are all meant to combat that.
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Jan 2, 2019 19:12
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Fat Samurai posted:Yeah, I know. On the other hand the traditional dungeon crawl method of stripping the dungeon of everything down to its fittings to haul back to town and sell at Ye Olde Home Depote doesn't make a ton of sense fluffwise. So while Gloomhaven's system isn't very good from a representational standpoint, I think in the abstract the idea that you're not going to stick around in dangerous places looting every last coin is reasonable flavor.
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Jan 2, 2019 19:24
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Yeah, this is supposed to represent an extremely stressful and exhausting experience for the characters -- one of the things which catches a lot of new players by surprise is just how quickly you can run out of cards (ie "become exhausted") just by not paying too much attention to your loss cards and your rest cycles. By the end of a scenario the characters are generally intended to be bruised, battered, and just physically unable to press forward for much longer. Also while there are coin tokens on the floor, the actual act of looting is rifling through the corpse's pockets, breaking open furniture to find hidden compartments, etc -- there generally aren't just discrete piles of "LOOT HERE" laying around. Obviously there are situations where the abstraction breaks down a little bit, but that's the nature of abstracted mechanics. In general I think it works quite well.
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Jan 2, 2019 19:30
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My group for a long time played that the scenario ended immediately upon objective completion, so there was usually a scramble to play the fastest initiative to get a coin before someone blasted the last monster.Reik posted:I blame the schools. Absolutely not, but I don't have to wait the extra turn. I will, but I don't have to.
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Jan 2, 2019 19:32
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Some Numbers posted:My group for a long time played that the scenario ended immediately upon objective completion, so there was usually a scramble to play the fastest initiative to get a coin before someone blasted the last monster. Yeah, I usually wouldn't worry so much about loot maximizing and whatnot, but scenario 2 can be a swift kick in the pants at level 1 without any perks.
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Jan 2, 2019 20:04
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Fat Samurai posted:I understand the intent of having the session end as soon as the objective is accomplished, but giving incentives to the players to "game" the enemies this way is one of the few problems I have with Gloomhaven. We usually just eyeball the last couple of turns unless it's down to the wire (or a chest, because those are nice surprises).
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Jan 2, 2019 20:16
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Zurai posted:Yeah, this is supposed to represent an extremely stressful and exhausting experience for the characters -- one of the things which catches a lot of new players by surprise is just how quickly you can run out of cards (ie "become exhausted") just by not paying too much attention to your loss cards and your rest cycles. By the end of a scenario the characters are generally intended to be bruised, battered, and just physically unable to press forward for much longer. Also while there are coin tokens on the floor, the actual act of looting is rifling through the corpse's pockets, breaking open furniture to find hidden compartments, etc -- there generally aren't just discrete piles of "LOOT HERE" laying around. Yeah this is my why my group almost failed the Black Barrow the first time we played it. We were not expecting how grueling it was going to be. We then failed the 2nd mission, and then when we tried it the 2nd time I explained about focus firing (using WoW raids as an example) and once we got into the habit of focus firing the elites we found that the game got easier by a fair bit.
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Jan 2, 2019 20:47
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We failed Scenario 1 the first time playing in two (spellweaver+tinker) and we managed to succeed (with 2 exhausted players) playing it in four (having added brute and scoundrel to the party). This is the main reason I wanted to start on easy, until everyone has a better understanding of how thing work and how everything can go from "totally fine" to "rather bad" in a single round. Scenario1, room1 can easily cripple a party not expecting the front loaded difficulty. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 21:05
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Zurai posted:Yeah, this is supposed to represent an extremely stressful and exhausting experience for the characters -- one of the things which catches a lot of new players by surprise is just how quickly you can run out of cards (ie "become exhausted") just by not paying too much attention to your loss cards and your rest cycles. By the end of a scenario the characters are generally intended to be bruised, battered, and just physically unable to press forward for much longer. Also while there are coin tokens on the floor, the actual act of looting is rifling through the corpse's pockets, breaking open furniture to find hidden compartments, etc -- there generally aren't just discrete piles of "LOOT HERE" laying around. Also, in-setting it makes sense that the exhausted adventurers have no idea how soon enemy reinforcements may show up. Given later events in the campaign, it's reasonable to expect that there's lots of lethal things that tend to hang around these adventure locations and that they will kill you dead if you don't bug out. The decision not to have permadeath would seem to undercut that, but in fact if you assume that these PCs withdraw the moment their lives might be in danger then it makes sense that they don't take chances on grabbing all the loot whenever possible. Scenario 1 on regular difficulty with new players almost certainly leads to an initial loss. With at least one experienced player to warn about common newbie mistakes, it's not too difficult, but it's also substantially easier on Difficulty -1. It's well-designed with the expectation that new players end up having to lose a few cards to damage and are going to take longer than this group did to clear rooms; I'd estimate an expected additional 3-4 turns plus associated damage would normally be expected. My first play with three new people (Brute-Scoundrel-Mindthief) we lost at Difficulty +0 and then won at Difficulty -1. My third play with two new players in a separate group (Spellweaver-Scoundrel-Cragheart) we played at Difficulty -1 and it was too easy. (I suspect part of this is the Cragheart just being very effective at low level/gearing.) The amazing thing about the game is how well most scenarios scale up. Play scenario 2 with L7 characters and it will be almost as challenging as it is at L1, with the big difference being that you have had a lot more money to put into your character. I suspect a few of these early scenarios don't hold up quite as well (1 & 4, in particular) on replay, unless you're using unlocked characters you'd previously only been playing at high levels and are hitting the learning curve hard. If you want to get "gamey" about it, Gloomhaven allows you to gain GP and XP from a failed scenario and you can repeat as many times as you like, so in theory you could replay a first room again and again and get infinite coin and experience. That's not against the rules of the game, just the spirit.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:17
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Well, if you want to "grind" you can run randomly generated dungeons...but there is so much content in the box that you probably won't need to unless you really want to.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:25
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Also if you want to grind money there's a ver specific scenario that you want to do but at that point you may as well just say you have infinite money.
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Jan 2, 2019 21:43
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Yeah, there are certain things that are like, well sure you could technically do that buy why bother? For example, that personal quest we could've picked that said watch allies exhaust 15 times, we could just play scenario 1 8 times and let everyone die in the first room, but why?
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Jan 2, 2019 22:00
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Quick reminder that scenario 2 is linked to this one so you can skip a potentially crappy road event by not going back to Gloomhaven.
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Jan 3, 2019 00:24
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We never skip road events so we can get to the ones that unlock content.
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Jan 3, 2019 01:25
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Elephant Ambush posted:Quick reminder that scenario 2 is linked to this one so you can skip a potentially crappy road event by not going back to Gloomhaven. But we can't buy new stuff if we do that.
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Jan 3, 2019 01:43
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Another main reason to skip road events, IRL at least, is that after a scenario your real human beings are exhausted as it's been about 2hours and you don't want to instantly do another scenario until the next game night. It's basically impossible to remember to skip the city event and level up process a week later. So we always just did the road events. If you're used to playing games for 6 hours straight though skipping the road events could be nice I guess, in theory. If visiting the city and getting city events wasn't so awesome. Also yeah, both city and road events unlock awesome stuff (although very rarely) and you skip both by continuing the mission. EDIT: Also in regards to Backup Ammunition you gain the EXP even if you don't use the bonus target, but you still need to make the ranged attack actions. As far as I know you cannot make a ranged attack action against nothing (In fact I do not believe you can ever play an action that does absolutely nothing at all). Although I do believe you can heal someone who is at full HP as this doesn't count as nothing? I'm not sure? There are later mechanics that lead me to believe that healing someone at full hp counts as a valid action, I might be wrong though. I always played as if healing someone who was at full hp was a valid action, I don't want to discuss it too much because it's a spoiler as to why that would make logical sense. namad fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jan 3, 2019 |
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Jan 3, 2019 01:46
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Apparently this isn't actually widely available out here in the UK yet and all the prices I'm seeing are imports? Which would explain a lot. So I guess I'll consider this my primer until somewhere local gets it in.
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Jan 3, 2019 01:59
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namad posted:Another main reason to skip road events, IRL at least, is that after a scenario your real human beings are exhausted as it's been about 2hours and you don't want to instantly do another scenario until the next game night. It's basically impossible to remember to skip the city event and level up process a week later. So we always just did the road events. If you're used to playing games for 6 hours straight though skipping the road events could be nice I guess, in theory. If visiting the city and getting city events wasn't so awesome. Also yeah, both city and road events unlock awesome stuff (although very rarely) and you skip both by continuing the mission. Healing is not attacking. You can heal someone who's at full HP.
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Jan 3, 2019 02:10
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Apparently this isn't actually widely available out here in the UK yet and all the prices I'm seeing are imports? Which would explain a lot. It's on its 3rd or 4th printing, it's just that each print run sells out quite quickly. I'm quite certain that there are UK distributors of the game, they may just be out until the next print run.
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Jan 3, 2019 02:25
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Zurai posted:It's on its 3rd or 4th printing, it's just that each print run sells out quite quickly. I'm quite certain that there are UK distributors of the game, they may just be out until the next print run. Yeah, this game has never been "in stock" you'll need to keep an eye out for the next print run and buy it right away. The game is also often scalped at like 150-200% MSRP.
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Jan 3, 2019 04:44
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Black Barrow, Update 11Last Round pending actions posted:None!   PLAYER'S OVERVIEW All the decks the players have chosen are available as a (mobile friendly) spreadsheet in separate tabs. The cards that have been selected for the current round are marked in yellow. Discarded cards will be marked in light red, while lost cards will be marked in deep red. Cards in the active slot will be marked in green in turns following the one they are played in. Available items are also shown there. Instead of having a fully itemized round-by-round overview, we'll go over the generic intent of the players for these last rounds. - Bullwinkle's INTENT is to gain at least 3 more coin tokens before the game ends. - Rocky's INTENT is to LOOT the bottom section of the map, then gain as much XP as possible. - Master Splinter's INTENT is to gain as much XP as possible. Our party is planning on a 3 rounds timetable. MONSTERS OVERWIEV  Black Barrow, Round 10 posted:08. Master Splinter the Vermling Mindthief (Reik)  Black Barrow, Round 11 posted:
 Black Barrow, Round 12 posted:
Conclusion posted:With the last bandit dead, you take a moment to catch your breath and steel yourself against the visions of living remains ripping at your flesh. Your target is not among the dead, and you shudder to think what horrors still await you in the catacombs below. Well, our brave heroes have done it! A big thank you to our players, Reik, Some Numbers and SalTheBard! I hope you have enjoyed your stay  Completing Scenarios provide different kind of rewards; in this case, we have unlocked a new Scenario and gained a Party Achievement; these are used to keep track of the main caimpaing progress and are used as "checks" to see if the party can access specific content. Barrow Lair is linked to the Scenario we have just completed; this means that our party can directly go to that Scenario without going back to Gloomhaven, if they want to. Final stats after Scenario 1 are as follows:  Each coin token looted during the Scenario has a value based on the level of the Scenario itself. Since we were playing at level 0, each coin token is worth 2 Gold! The current net worth of each hero is: - Rocky: 16 Gold - Master Splinter: 12 Gold - Bullwinkle: 10 Gold All three our heroes have have managed to complete their chosen Battle Goals! - Master Splinter is a Dynamo for having overkilled by at least 4 points an enemy this Scenario and gains 1 checkmark. - Rocky is a Sadist for having killed 5+ enemies this Scenario and gains 1 checkmark. - Rocky is (barely) an Hoarder for having looted 5+ coin tokens this Scenario and gains 1 checkmark. Here's the Character's Sheet for our heroes:    And Party Sheet:  Now it's time to vote! Please express your preference by bolding your choice! Going back to Gloomhaven has both positive and negative consequences: we get to skip a Road Event (since we're not travelling anywhere else)...but we also have to skip all the City interaction, including buying/selling equipment, donating to the Sacred Oak Sanctuary and completing a City Event. 1) Go back to Gloomhaven, then move to Scenario 2 - Barrow Lair. 2) DO NOT go back to Gloomhaven , then move to Scenario 2 - Barrow Lair. 3) Go back to Gloomhaven, then move to Scenario 66 - Clockwork Cove EDIT: also please vote on the difficulty level for the next Scenario! Should we keep Party level -1 or move to Party Level +0? - Barrow Lair is a Boss Scenario. We can expect a tough fight with a Boss Monster and its minions. Boss Battles often have some kind of "puzzle" element to it, similar to what you would expect from a Dark Souls or World of Warcraft boss. This is what we can expect from the Scenario (more details provided if we pick this one):  - Clockwork Cove is more of a mystery! As the name implies, we would face constructs, traps and puzzles. This is what we can expect from the Scenario (more details may be provided if we pick this one):  Also, the vote for MVP / Play of the Game is still open! DEADLINE FOR EVERYTHING IS 3AM EST  We'll have a longer deadline for the next voting sessions, especially if we're going back to Gloomhaven! Elephant Ambush, archduke.iago, Zurai you are the 3 next active players! Default hero distribution is Mindthief, Cragheart, Brute, but feel free to discuss among yourselves and swap around as you see fit. archduke.iago you don't have PMs, so please send an email to gloomhavenlp@gmail.com with your preferred method of contact! That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jan 3, 2019 |
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Jan 3, 2019 12:29
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Well done team! My vote is for 1) Go back to Gloomhaven, then move to Scenario 2 - Barrow Lair. Even if you don't have anything to do in town and your calculus says skipping a road event is worth missing a city event, you're denying yourself the flavor text and whatever permanent rewards you might get from either. I haven't seen Clockwork Cove, but my party did try to do a side scenario right after scenario 2, and to this day, it remains our only loss and a pretty massive one at that.
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Jan 3, 2019 12:58
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