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OK then I vote that this turn we all try to attack first in order to kill the archers, then bust through the door. I'm fastest so I can open the door and go invisible so I don't die and to set up a slow initiative big hit on the next turn. I'm going move as far as I can into the next room.
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Jan 8, 2019 01:51
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OK, then I'm going to go with relatively low but not blazing fast initiative, hit an archer relatively hard, then set up to tank in the next room. I'll be able to move a huge amount and hit an enemy hard next turn, depending on what's needed.
Zurai fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 03:46
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I think the only thing the players should be able to surmise at this point is that the next room might contain archers. If the archers in their current room are standing still and shooting, or not shooting at all, opening the door last will be safe. If the archers in the current room are moving forward a bunch and then firing a long range shot, opening the door last action may be bad, because it will allow any possible archers in room 2 to reach them. Only the player opening the door will be able to hide from them. In this case, given the lack of overall available information about possible threats you've never seen, a large factor in determining the safety of last action door opening would be to see the enemy draw their card for the turn first. Then re-think it. EDIT: I edited this post many times, flip flopping on what was, and wasn't a spoiler, until I ran downstairs and got my scenario book out, it is a spoiler and a huge one. EDIT #5: It's not a spoiler, I thought it was, I thought it wasn't, I thought it was, repeatedly. namad fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 03:52
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I'll pick some flexible cards and go rather late then.
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Jan 8, 2019 03:54
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namad posted:EDIT: Whoopsie I forgot, bosses don't use attack decks, their abilities are spoiled on their stat sheet, so everyone, players included, should know what the bosses two super powers are. Already, right? Which means I can say, don't open the door, the boss is a powerful summoner, and opening the door last action could result in a mission loss. Bosses do have an AI deck, but it's largely comprised of "Special 1" and "Special 2" cards. They do have a couple normal attacks.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:00
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Zurai posted:Bosses do have an AI deck, but it's largely comprised of "Special 1" and "Special 2" cards. They do have a couple normal attacks. The key here is that, monster attack decks are spoilers for new monsters, and I wasn't sure if bosses special moves were spoilers or not, but, given that the scenario books tells you about the boss' special abilities in paragraphs you're told only to read after opening the next door, I realized it is a spoiler, and so I removed all mention of it from my post. I hope you didn't read my post while it contained the offending information, or that you're a veteran who already knew it. If you read my post during the 2 minutes it contained spoilers I am sorry. TL;DR I'm trying to avoid ruining surprises in this game for any new players who haven't seen them yet.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:04
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It's fine. I think we've all done this scenario before and we know what to do. I'm not going to just forget what I know about this scenario. Even knowing what's in the next room doesn't guarantee victory. We could still lose to bad RNG.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:06
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I was assuming at least one person reading the thread, if not more, doesn't know. Although yeah, anyone who has played gloomhaven has likely seen mission #2.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:16
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Yeah, boss scenarios are usually dicey and depend heavily on which specials they decide to spam. I'll talk more about it once his specials are revealed, I actually think this is a cleverly designed boss.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:18
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Zurai posted:OK, then I'm going to go with relatively low but not blazing fast initiative, hit an archer relatively hard, then set up to tank in the next room. I'll be able to move a huge amount and hit an enemy hard next turn, depending on what's needed. Alright so based on this I am not going too far into the next room. I will still open the door and probably go invisible but I will stay near the door. That will give us all more options for the next turn. I brought a card whose bottom lets me give an ally a free move. If you want a slingshot next turn that would be hilarious but otherwise I can charge in with you and gently caress poo poo up.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:41
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Elephant Ambush posted:I brought a card whose bottom lets me give an ally a free move. If you want a slingshot next turn that would be hilarious but otherwise I can charge in with you and gently caress poo poo up. That is hilarious with Balanced Measure, but given that we all have four Nulls in our decks at the moment, I'd rather not stack all our eggs in one basket like that.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:45
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Zurai posted:That is hilarious with Balanced Measure, but given that we all have four Nulls in our decks at the moment, I'd rather not stack all our eggs in one basket like that. 3 nulls but yeah it's risky. At the same time we can't wait until we all burn all our curses before going in hard. My orders are in. This is going to be interesting.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:56
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Elephant Ambush posted:3 nulls but yeah it's risky. At the same time we can't wait until we all burn all our curses before going in hard. Four, the scenario adds three curses to each of us and we all have one null base. Crypts suck rear end. I agree that we can't wait to burn all our curses, I just don't want to put all our eggs into one gigantic Balanced Measure cannon even if I could theoretically do like 3/4 of the boss's HP in one attack with it. I'd rather spread the risk around some.
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Jan 8, 2019 05:01
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namad posted:TL;DR We have already seen the (shorter version) of the boss's powers when we picked the Scenario here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3877469&pagenumber=11&perpage=40#post491260016. It's printed on the Boss's Stat Card in the normal game as well and we've decided that players will be able to see the stat cards when they pick a Scenario (but only see the ability cards for creatures they have faced before), so no risk of spoiling that. I will post the more descriptive/longer version of the special rule only when instructed to do so from the Scenario book, though. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 09:31
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Silly me, of course, the stat sheet card! Sorry for all the whining then. Anyways, yeah, with summoners you either wanna make sure you can all charge into the room on the same turn, or retreat backwards until they summon ten of the enemy. I'm really hyped, I love this mission design, it's tough, but fair, and requires a set of very unique strategic moves.
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Jan 8, 2019 10:48
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Quick note for our active players: both Elephant Ambush and archduke.iago have submitted an order containing a card that was not in their initial card selection; I presume this is due to a simple mistake (since it was on turn 1 and 2, respectively), so please let me know what you are slotting out from the current selection to make room for Parasitic Influence and Rock Tunnel! I'll update the spreadsheet accordingly. Barrow Lair, Update 2A   ROUND REVEAL  Looks like my talk during the last update has somehow summoned the Trap laying card for the Archers! Well, for one of them, the other has been STUNNED at the end of the last round and will be unable to act. PLAYER'S OVERVIEW All the decks the players have chosen are available as a (mobile friendly) spreadsheet in separate tabs. The cards that have been selected for the current round are marked in yellow. Discarded cards will be marked in light red, while lost cards will be marked in deep red. Cards in the active slot will be marked in green in turns following the one they are played in. Available items are also shown there. 14. Master Splinter the Vermling Mindthief (Elephant Ambush) posted:
32. Bullwinkle the Inox Brute (Zurai) posted:
77. Rocky the Savvas Cragheart (archduke.iago) posted:
During this phase, players are free to discuss everything itt, including in depth round breakdown, tactics, and so on; you can use specific card names and numerical values since everything has been revealed already. Everyone itt is also encouraged to take part in the discussion (although the last word is, ofc, reserved for the active players. Be nice!  Active players, please discuss your ideas itt and provide your final orders via PM/Email! DEADLINE FOR EVERYTHING IS: TONIGHT, 3AM EST 
That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 11:27
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I'm gonna hit one or the other of the archers depending on what's alive and pop Warding Strength. The traps are going to be annoying but we may be able to make use of them.
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Jan 8, 2019 13:41
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I'm Scurrying next to Archer 2 and stabbing for a base of 3. Regardless of the results I'm opening the door and standing just on the other side. If the archers draw a card that would focus and attack me I'm using the cloak to go invisible. Otherwise I will just chill there. The Italian Guy please go back through your PMs. I definitely sent you the 10 cards I"'m using. I suppose there could have been a forums or internet glitch though. I will send it again tonight after I get home. Edit: copy/pasted a new PM from my previous one and gave it a better subject line. Elephant Ambush fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 15:11
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Elephant Ambush posted:The Italian Guy please go back through your PMs. I definitely sent you the 10 cards I"'m using. I suppose there could have been a forums or internet glitch though. I will send it again tonight after I get home. You did, this is the list I have from your PM though: quote:The Mind's Weakness But in the same post you say you want to use Parasitic Influence to move the Archer on a trap :/ So I assume there is a mistake in the list, but I don't know what you want to take out from it to slot Parasitic Influence in. EDIT: you new PM is still missing Parasitic Influence from the list  It's a similar issue with archduke.iago since I don't know what they want to remove to slot in Rock Tunnel, that was used this round but was not present in the Cragheart hand. That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 15:23
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The archers drew their trap laying card FWIW. They're going immediately after you. I'll target the archer on the lower health after your attack to increase the odds of finishing one of the two off, unless Rocky is planning to just use the default attack action to finish off Archer 2, in which case I'll hit Archer 1.
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Jan 8, 2019 15:24
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Also, I'd forgotten that the boss's Specials were revealed already, so a bit more pontification from me on them: I am of the opinion that the Bandit Commander is a great boss design for the part of the game it's in. Scenario 1 shows the party that they have to manage their resources or they'll get their teeth kicked in; Scenario 2 demonstrates the value of focused fire and the "there can only be as many of a specific enemy as there are standees for that enemy" rule. Unless the Bandit Commander is extremely nice to us, he's going to be opening at least a couple of the rooms branched off of the central room, and those rooms unsurprisingly contain enemies -- however, the four rooms in total contain more enemies than there are standees, so as long as we concentrate our attacks on the boss and on the enemies which don't come spilling out of those rooms, there's a limit to what we have to face. We obviously would prefer the boss not open all the rooms anyway because he'll teleport away from us as we're trying to gank him, plus we still have to kill all the enemies he reveals to win the scenario, but the design is very clever because if you get distracted trying to clear out the rooms as they open you will almost certainly lose this scenario, while if you maintain target discipline and kill the boss it's still manageable.
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Jan 8, 2019 15:35
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That Italian Guy posted:You did, this is the list I have from your PM though: Crap, I must have screwed up somewhere. I'll clarify tonight. Zurai posted:Also, I'd forgotten that the boss's Specials were revealed already, so a bit more pontification from me on them: The only distraction we may have to deal with is REDACTED Sorry! Elephant Ambush fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 15:59
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I was trying to avoid spoilers for the audience :P We know what's behind all the doors and what all these enemies do but the audience may not. They do know there are zombles though, and, well, the standees make it pretty obvious that these are not the fast variety (they're rather akin to Warcraft 3/WoW Abominations in appearance if not size).
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Jan 8, 2019 16:13
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Elephant Ambush posted:The only distraction we may have to deal with is REDACTED. Please don't spoil content that has not been revealed yet Granted it's not a big deal, but I would like to avoid discussing things that have not been revealed yet (like exact monster/room composition) for whoever is not already familiar with the Scenario. Everything that has been revealed already (like the Bandit Commander's abilities on the stat card or the type of monsters we'll face in the dungeon) are fair game, ofc.Zurai posted:the standees make it pretty obvious that these are not the fast variety (they're rather akin to Warcraft 3/WoW Abominations in appearance if not size). We also know that their base MOVE stat is 1 so, yeah, quite slow 
That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 16:15
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I edited my post. I'm getting ahead of myself. 
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Jan 8, 2019 16:18
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Elephant Ambush posted:I edited my post. I'm getting ahead of myself. Ahah no worries, we all want more Gloomhaven 
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Jan 8, 2019 16:20
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Since they move so slow, throwing obstacles in their way is always a fun strategy with the Cragheart. Plants vs Zombies: Gloomhaven Edition.
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Jan 8, 2019 16:25
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Reik posted:Since they move so slow, throwing obstacles in their way is always a fun strategy with the Cragheart. Plants vs Zombies: Gloomhaven Edition. Yeah, playing tower defense with the Cragheart can be pretty fun.
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Jan 8, 2019 16:55
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Zurai posted:Yeah, playing tower defense with the Cragheart can be pretty fun. It trivialized several dungeons which would have otherwise been pretty brutal. Particularly a path of adventures involving a certain retirement goal.
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Jan 8, 2019 17:27
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Zurai posted:Yeah, playing tower defense with the Cragheart can be pretty fun. IMHO it's the best part of playing the Cragheart. No other class can do that stuff and it's tons of fun.
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Jan 8, 2019 19:19
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I'll activate Backup Ammo and walk into the door tile. Planning to pickoff any remaining archers while hitting the boss next turn.
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Jan 8, 2019 20:57
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What if the boss isn't in the next room? This is Gloomhaven: Symphony of the Night, and we're in the upside down campaign.
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Jan 8, 2019 21:02
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Reik posted:This is Gloomhaven: Symphony of the Night, and we're in the upside down campaign. If we were in Upside Down Gloomhaven, we would have started with Scenario 2 since the text says it's downstairs from Scenario 1 
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Jan 8, 2019 21:12
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My orders are in. Should be finishing off an archer unless I get unlucky.
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Jan 9, 2019 01:57
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Note that the Living Corpses may be slow but they hit as hard (or harder, for the Elite) as the boss does. So probably don't let them catch up to you.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:14
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Narsham posted:Because you get to see what the enemies in the room will do before finishing your move, you can decide what's best to do at that point. oh my god, we've been playing a year and we have been drawing the card after finishing the door-opening turn so you gotta decide where to stand before you see what the monsters do
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Jan 9, 2019 03:08
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Barrow Lair, Update 2B First thing first, I have received amended card lists from archduke.iago and Elephant Ambush! Cragheart: +Rock Tunnel +Forceful Storm, -Nature's Lift, -Unstable Upheaval Mindthief: +Parasitic Influence, -Submissive Affliction The correct hand is now showing up in the (mobile friendly) spreadsheet. Barrow Lair, Round 2 posted:14. Master Splinter the Vermling Mindthief (Elephant Ambush) When opening Door 1... posted:You open the door to a large crypt littered with coffins. At the back stands your quarry. He fits the description, but there is something previously unnoticed in his eyes—a dark otherworldly force. “Who are you to think you can interrupt the work of the Gloom?” A dark energy engulfs his hands as he speaks. “I will show you what you are dealing with!”  Barrow Lair, Round 2, continued posted:Master Splinter Moves 1 to G1(2).   The Archers in the first room are dead, but our heroes are now facing a plethora of living and undead enemies. Active players please provide your STEP A Orders via PM/email with this format: - Initiative: xx - Card 1: name - Card 2: name DEADLINE FOR EVERYTHING IS 3AM EST (As always, please let me know if you need an extension!) That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 12:19
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Could have gone better, could have gone much worse. I'd rather the zombies hadn't drawn a move 2 card but at least they hurt themselves and they generally get stuck for several turns in the doorways anyway. And as mentioned before, the traps the archers put down might come in handy. Unfortunately, I forgot to drink my stamina potion (I do this all the time in tabletop too) so I'm going to have to use a different movement card than I'd intended but as long as the boss doesn't open the next door before my turn I'll be able to hit him solidly.
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Jan 9, 2019 14:10
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Solid round. Italian Guy you are correct that both archers could focus and attack me in that hex. I definitely want to use the Cloak of Invisibility. Thanks for correcting me. I'm actually happy the corpses damaged themselves. They'll probably stand there and bump into each other while melting for a while. I intend to go in hard on the elite archer next round at a slow initiative to maximize invisibility. If you guys could charge in on the boss I'll join you in the gang beating after I'm done with the elite archer. Let's focus the boss down then sweep up. He's likely to open at least one more door though. Ugh.
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Jan 9, 2019 14:32
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Elephant Ambush posted:I intend to go in hard on the elite archer next round at a slow initiative to maximize invisibility. If you guys could charge in on the boss I'll join you in the gang beating after I'm done with the elite archer. Let's focus the boss down then sweep up. He's likely to open at least one more door though. Ugh. I'll unfortunately be moving kinda slowly but I intend to move to J4 and attack whatever I can. Hopefully that's the boss.
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Jan 9, 2019 14:35
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