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E: update on the previous page! I've realized I have not applied the correct +2 modifier to Reik's melee attack from The Mind's Weakness. This means two things: 1) Master Splinter has not suffered RETALIATION damage, since the guard was killed. 2) Rocky would have not gained XP from the attack. Error 1 will be rectified Error 2 is at the player advantage and won't be rectified (since Some Numbers had no plans to use the top of Crater if the guard was dead; and their intent was to maximize looting, done by using Crushing Grasp (bot). I'll update stats in the last screenshot. 
That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 14:33
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I thought the bandit guard spawned in L4 in that room? Bullwinkle still has enough movement to reach him and whack him with Balanced Measures, he would just be in hex N4 instead of O3. With the cards I have left, I can't reach of any of the archers, and I feel like Bullwinkle put enough hurt on the bandit guard that he'll go down this turn without me. If it's cool with you guys I'll grab the remaining loot in this room and move in to set up for next round. Bullwinkle might want to get the killing blow on the guard for his Trophy collection? Reik fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 15:38
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Reik posted:I thought the bandit guard spawned in L4 in that room? No, see this is something they have changed in the third edition...  screenshots and position have been fixed, thanks! Can't wait to get back to a pc built in this century.
That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 15:58
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That Italian Guy posted:No, see this is something they have changed in the third edition... Haha, it's no problem; I'm the person in our group that sets up the scenario and does all the monster AI. It's a ton of work. I'm a bit confused as to why our Brute lost a card to negate an attack, but is at 7hp. Reik fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 16:02
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Brute suffered a 3 damage attack and was down to 4 during the previous round; you normally have to declare a card loss to prevent damage immediately, but since we're playing in an asynchronous way, I've asked SalTheBard to let me know before today's update if they wanted to burn a card to prevent that damage. If the question is "why the Brute has decided to do so", I guess Sal was afraid of hanging around at 4 HP. I guess you normally only use that feature to prevent a lethal attack or a very high amount of damage, but when you're low enough you may be forced to burn multiple cards to prevent even 1 or 2 damage to avoid lethal.
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Dec 24, 2018 16:11
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Okay, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a function of a guard attacking that was later determined to have been deceased at the time or something along those lines.
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Dec 24, 2018 16:26
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And there's the card that could have dealt 4 damage to a Mindthief programming two attacks whose player didn't include a contingency for it. In normal play, you just choose not to attack guards with retaliate 2 if you aren't willing to take the hit. I'd vote B for dealing with late orders. I'd also suggest trying the next scenario with the slower two-stage structure, as much to see what it does for That Italian Guy's workflow as anything else. Gloomhaven gets pretty complex pretty quickly when you're administrating everything yourself. When new enemies appear, will their selected action card be indicated? I realize the app makes that harder because it does the math, but someone will want to count cards in the monster action deck and it's helpful to have that information in the text instead of having to reverse engineer from the screenshot.
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Dec 24, 2018 16:33
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Narsham posted:And there's the card that could have dealt 4 damage to a Mindthief programming two attacks whose player didn't include a contingency for it. In normal play, you just choose not to attack guards with retaliate 2 if you aren't willing to take the hit. We can definitely try the two step update system for our next Scenario; that would certainly make thing easier on my side, I won't deny it  I'll immediately add a "stats" screenshot showing the ability cards for revealed monsters (together with the map one) from now on! It should have been there already, ofc. Still trying to find out the best way to have the most clarity with the least admin work; moving away from a laptop+mobile setup should help too.
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Dec 24, 2018 16:47
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Yeah, this was the second round that I went after 15, with the first being the initial round. I figured if they did shield retaliate on round 1 I could heal the 2 with empathetic assault on the next turn, and I was pretty sure I would kill this guy with an attack 5 this round, avoiding retaliate that way. If anyone following along has any questions about my card selection, I'm more than happy to go over my choices. Reik fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 16:49
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That Italian Guy posted:I like this solution and I'll implement it on the next update. I think I'd actually recommend that we see all the listed monsters, the monster's stat sheet (but not their deck), all the listed treasure chests and traps and terrain tiles, but not the room layouts. Since technically I believe that's how the rules are written. There's no way to avoid seeing these things when you take them out of the box to setup for play, but you can simply remove the map tiles from storage without placing them. Using the scenario viewer app to ensure that not even the person who takes all the stuff out of the box knows the room layout. That said before the scenario viewer app was released I just placed all the maptiles in their correct configuration before turn 1 because there wasn't a way to avoid spoilers on that. So, yeah, uh, IMO before turn1 if we're going to see the full map layout we should also see the monster stat sheets (but not the monster decks). If you played the game physically in person there'd basically be no way at all to avoid seeing the stat sheets (without a dedicated DM/GM which gloomhaven is specifically designed to avoid). Oh also, in the future I'd recommend not letting players buy things after seeing the road event or room1. It's basically cheating, you could realize you're going to start the mission with wounds then buy a healing item, or curses and then pray. Although I reckon this was just done to save time for scenario 1? Buying items will be infrequent enough in the future I think that there won't be a need to compress time in this fashion? Additionally anyone with spoilery knowledge of road events and items would've had spoilery knowledge of scenario 1 anyways. Oh also in regards to update speed, well, if you can't manage 1 turn per day, then, this will probably take 3-4 years. Although if you have 3-4 years to spare, 2 days would give players more time to reply. Maybe each player should have an understudy who can take their turn in day 2, if they fail to input orders in day 1? That way you'll get some turns in 1 day and some in 2 days? This might also be a bad idea. That Italian Guy posted:Fair enough, but I had to play through the update and draw from the characters's modifier decks; I'll try to avoid the situation whenever possible. I think it would be fair for the players to state who they want to have road event penalties at the same time that they input their orders for turn1? Technically I believe the order of operations is, all city stuff, road event fully resolves, players see maptile #1 deployed for the scenario, players select which items and skills to equip, players input their cards for turn 1. So, ideally, I'd say that you should have everything in the city posted in an update, and after all city related votes have occurred... post the results of the votes on what the party will do, as well as the front of the road event you've drawn. Then in the next update post the fully layout of room#1 at the same time you post the result from the back of the road event? Sorry if I haven't explained this very well. I don't think in the future that the road penalty will really result in extra processing time. Players can simply secretly vote/decide on what to do with the penalties at the same time they input their turn1 cards? millionth edit: I think the reason that the players had so much trouble giving you two sets of orders and letting you auto-resolve them is that they're new players. Feel free to use a 2 step system for scenario 2, but I think after this thread goes on for a while... players would get used to giving you two contingency plans. Although I think if you're going to use the two contingency plan system, and well, it doesn't really matter much for these characters, you should make them always allowed to specify a third contingency in which they punch someone for 2 melee attack (the worst action in the game). Especially on say a spellweaver a lot of turns are spent punching for 2 and/or moving for 2, if and only if, the two amazing plans you had planned.... both become irrelevant before your intuitive comes up. I could see this coming up very occasionally for the cragheart, there's no reason to force him to harm his own teammates just because his two selected plans both harm his teammates (not when he could choose the blank default actions on his cards instead). tl;dr If these comments are entirely unfun, just disregard them! Great thread so far. namad fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Dec 24, 2018 |
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Dec 24, 2018 23:03
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I think the reason to want to go to 2 stages is that there are some enemy actions that can massively change what you might want to do - see here with shield/retaliate, but there are also things like disarms or summons. In those cases, the player might want to derail their planned action entirely, but unless that player knew the enemies possible actions ahead of time there's no real way to make an alternate plan for it.
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Dec 24, 2018 23:57
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Piell posted:I think the reason to want to go to 2 stages is that there are some enemy actions that can massively change what you might want to do - see here with shield/retaliate, but there are also things like disarms or summons. In those cases, the player might want to derail their planned action entirely, but unless that player knew the enemies possible actions ahead of time there's no real way to make an alternate plan for it. It's also pretty crucial with ranged attackers, most of which hit hard but some of which move slowly; knowing what they are doing allows you to stay out of range some of the time. It also matters in the event of a few enemies that can pull a multi-attack card with no movement; you might not want to run up and hit two with an AoE melee attack and then get your face bitten off, but if they instead pull a no-attack card you absolutely would. In my experience, people want to fail or succeed on the basis of their own plans and not the LPer's independent decision about what best accomplishes the general objective. Then again, I'm not looking at years of my life to finish a Gloomhaven LP.
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Dec 25, 2018 01:27
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Those surprises are mostly something that happens once the first time you fight an enemy, the next 30 copies of that enemy you fight, well, you can just use one of your two plans to say "Stay out of range"... Or let players submit an optional lovely backup last resort 3rd order of use the default move 2 action and just avoid being in range without getting to use any of their abilities. Then again, some of those enemies which can attack at long range are also summoners, which provides incentive to charge into their firing arcs. Some other enemies do things like never move at all whatsoever. So after you're surprised the first time by a seemingly unneeded ranged damage blow, you're re-surprised into rushing headlong at them on the same turns. Gloomhaven develops a players understanding of situations throughout the campaign in an interesting way. Often IRL my party has failed a mission only to retry it and win, even if the first try seemed impossible. Perhaps in the second try we entirely skip an optional door we had no way of knowing was optional the first go around. Or we decide to rush the summoners more aggressively, or once we actually ran from the summoners until the box was out of the cardboard tokens that represented the summoned creature, which prevented the summoner from summoning anymore. Or we could decide to save a key once per mission card for a crowded room of weenies, or a difference once per mission card for a super strong elite. Even if you can't discuss the specific names or numbers of cards during a scenario, there's basically no way to keep yourself from texting your buddies 50 times that week... about all the things you'd do differently next game night. In fact I think failing a mission will be a really cool moment for this thread. Gloomhaven has a brilliant way of making failure NOT feel like bad dice rolls. Even if all these surprises caused the players to die and fail 50% of missions, playing 50% faster would be worth it, but I reckon 2 stage commands will have a victory rate around 85-95% and 1 stage commands might be 65-85%. Another option is to play missions on easy if needed. Although after about 100 hours IRL we stopped losing on normal and started playing on hard. I've read on BGG some insane groups even ran very hard. I am 100% all for playing scenario 2 in 2 stage mode though. I think that in order for 1 stage orders to work the thread needs to understand the game-flow better. I think playing 2 stage order system mode for a couple scenarios will help players learn the sorts of surprises that can occur. This will help the player write contingencies into their two orders better. Instead of purely trying to optimize damage, they might start using their 2nd order to say things like: if none of my attacks using my first combo (top/bottom) can generate a kill on any of the archers in this room, instead play the reverse combo (bottom/top) and use my buff ability on adjacent allies. This sort of order would be able to handle both an ally accidentally getting too many critical hits and clearing all the archers in the room (perhaps the non-archers in the room have retaliation and too much hp to one shot) As well as; handling it if the player character got disarmed earlier in the initiative phase that round. Another example might be to say use this top ability and this bottom ability to attempt to attack archer#4, unless you can avoid the range of elite archer #2, in which case attack guard #3 instead. Although avoiding the range of ranged enemies is usually only useful if everyone can do it. Which would require some communication after the monster cards are drawn. In my RL game we always allowed this as it was basically impossible to keep people from blurting out "Oh, wow, that archer isn't moving this turn, that's an attack action not an attack move action!" (the most common monster deck card in the game is an attack X move Y card). Maybe these are bad examples. As a result of my own bad examples though, I am convinced that using a 2 stage system is really only worthwhile if you allow a discussion between stages. Which is going to be pretty slow. If you just take secret input from the players between stage 1 and 2 of the orders input system, then, imo, it's not worth adding an extra day's wait. Either way you go with it way I'm really loving the thread. I only wish I wasn't spoiled on the game. Who knows though, maybe the thread will decide to be ~EVIL~. My IRL party was boringly good all the time. namad fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 05:23
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Merry Christmas if you are celebrating it! Now that I am stuffed like your average turkey, let me get through the last queries/suggestions (thanks to everyone for their feedback, btw!): 1) From Scenario 2 on, I'll show: - all the maps tiles; - all the tiles (traps, treasures, coins, mission tokens and so on); - all the stat cards for the creatures (and all their ability decks after the creature has been encountered at least once); - I will not show the exact content for each room aside from the first one, unless there is overwhelming feedback on that direction. The idea is to show enough details to the players for them to take informed decisions (IE: adding jump/fly or push/pull cards if there are a lot of traps, do not add a status effect card if there are creatures immune to it, etc) while leaving a little bit of dungeon crawl mystery feeling to it. 2) In between each Scenario, we'll have a full Update; the thread will vote on: - $$$ choices: buy/sell items, donations to the Sacred Oak, enhancements and so on; - levelup choices; - new heroes to swap in or to add to the party once one retires; - the outcome of a Road Event (only when one has to be picked according to regular campaign rules, ofc; I will put a City Event at the end of the last Scenario update, when one should be encountered - that way we'll have the result for that already available before the rest of the City activity takes place); - potential additional choices. 3) We will at least try the 2 step update system, with a shorter window to provide the card choice for the round and a longer one to discuss the tactics having access to all the details. While slowing down the game speed, this should have several beneficial effects: - grant more agency to the players; while the "intent" system works better than I anticipated, I still need to make quite a lot of small choices for them...at times without being 100% (or even 50%) sure about their preferences. If the order is to maximize damage while minimizing friendly fire, would Player X accept to inflict 1 damage to an ally in order to kill an enemy? Both choices are more or less viable. - have a positive influence on update quality; not because of additional admin time (as the "meat and potatoes" update will more or less be the same size), but cause I won't have to make those choices for the players. A certain level of contingencies are still going to be needed (IE: if X is still alive, attack Y), but that is obviously easier on me than the "intent" system. tl;dr: less brainpower on the choices means less clerical errors. - have a positive influence on the discussion itt. More details should allow everyone (not just the active players) to partake in the planning phase for the round, especially after the cards for the turn have been revealed. NOTE: Gloomhaven takes...a lot of time for a complete playthrough. At a certain point, the difference between 2 or 4 years becomes less relevant, especially if the thread is more interesting while slower. All the changes we make to the LP can always be reverted if the we feel like the game and/or the thread have become less fun or interesting. At the end of this scenario, we'll also vote to set the default difficulty rating for the game (keep it easy or move it to normal with the 2 steps system). That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Dec 25, 2018 |
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Dec 25, 2018 17:54
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Some additional details (that are now been tracked on the second post of the thread as well) Party Sheet  Global Achievements  Prosperity tracker  NOTE: The first edition of the game had town levels go up too slowly so the second print run of the game removed one checkmark box from each town level on the prosperity tracker. These are the "X" ticks that are already present in the image. Also a friendly reminder to our active players: orders are due in ~17h (3AM EST, December 27th), in case you're still filled with the holiday spirit (and food...and spirits)
That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Dec 26, 2018 |
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Dec 26, 2018 15:37
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The furthest I can move in this round is on the door hex, does that interfere with anyone? Also, if possible if we can stay close to the door to draw the archers towards us that would help as my only real move for round 5 is a move 3 from Scurry.
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Dec 26, 2018 18:33
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I’m staying in the opening room and healing you guys
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Dec 26, 2018 18:34
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Edit: Nevermind, I am wrong.
Some Numbers fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Dec 26, 2018 |
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Dec 26, 2018 19:37
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I was going to heal myself this turn, if that would affect your card selection.
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Dec 26, 2018 19:51
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Reik posted:I was going to heal myself this turn, if that would affect your card selection. Not really, I only have a couple of choices.
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Dec 26, 2018 20:06
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I guess I will attack and move out of the door way
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Dec 26, 2018 20:27
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SalTheBard posted:I guess I will attack and move out of the door way You can freely move through hexes occupied by your allies even when using a basic movement action, in case this is having an impact on your orders (but they can't stop in an hex that is already occupied). That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 02:51
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That Italian Guy posted:You can freely move through hexes occupied by your allies even when using a basic movement action, in case this is having an impact on your orders (but they can't stop in an hex that is already occupied). I was thinking more to lure the Archers toward us a bit
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Dec 27, 2018 04:41
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SalTheBard posted:I was thinking more to lure the Archers toward us a bit That's usually a good idea Orders are in working on the update!
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Dec 27, 2018 10:57
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Black Barrow, Update 5Last Round pending actions posted:None!   PLAYER'S OVERVIEW All the decks the players have chosen are available as a (mobile friendly) spreadsheet in separate tabs. The cards that have been selected for the current round are marked in yellow. Discarded cards will be marked in light red, while lost cards will be marked in deep red. Cards in the active slot will be marked in green in turns following the one they are played in. Available items are also shown there. Bullwinkle the Brute is super fast, at initiative 10, with Provoking Roar & Warding Strength. INTENT: disarm the elite Guard, then buff up to tank some archer damage. They are also using their Minor Stamina Potion (waiting on SalTheBard confirmation of which cards to recover). code:code:code: No special cards were drawn for the enemies this round; everything is going to try and focus Bullwinkle, but level 0 Archers have reduced range and most of them won't be able to bear their sights on the Brute for this round, it looks like! At 30 and 31 initiative respectively, both the Guard and the Archers are going after the players. Black Barrow, Round 4 posted:10. Bullwinkle the Inox Brute   There are 20 cards in a starting modifier deck; most of the deck is composed of (0) (+1) and (-1) cards...with a single copy each of (NULL), (2x), (+2) and (-2). Our Brute was able to pull both a NULL and a -2 (after reshuffle) from their modifiers deck...  All things considered, a consolidation round for our players. The Archers are now at the perfect range to shoot next round, while still being far off enough to be difficult for the players to retaliate. And our heroes's hands are getting dangerously thin! Being forced to take a Long Rest while there are still enemies around is usually a bad thing. Reik, Some Numbers and SalTheBard, please submit your orders for round 5! - Specify two plans, using the two possible combinations of top/bottom. PLAN A is your preferred one. - Select one or more preferred target(s) for your attacks. (IE: "n.3"; or "n.4 if it's still alive, otherwise n.5") - Select one or more preferred final location for your movements. - Specify the maximum enemy focus threshold you will tolerate: if your selected orders move you in a place that puts you into N+ enemy focus, I'll try to accomodate that into your orders. This is to avoid potential suicide rushes, since you will operate without full knowledge of potential enemy positions. - (OPTIONAL) add your intention for the round. This will allow me to better understand and execute your idea (IE: I want to grab focus from the enemies trying to kill PlayerX). DEADLINE FOR EVERYTHING IS: 3AM EST  Also please SalTheBard let me know which cards you want to recover with your Minor Stamina Potion! That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 12:11
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Nevermind on the short rest.
Reik fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Dec 27, 2018 |
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Dec 27, 2018 15:48
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Cragheart are you doing anything that could hurt me if I get into melee with the archers?
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Dec 27, 2018 16:05
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Brute, did you want to get the kill credit for the bandit guard for your personal quest?
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Dec 27, 2018 16:12
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SalTheBard posted:Cragheart are you doing anything that could hurt me if I get into melee with the archers? Hey SalTheBard, don't forget to let me know which cards you want to recover with your Minor Stamina Potion! You do have one (instead of the health potion) since the thread has voted for boots of striding + minor stamina potion for the Brute's intems.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:12
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Reik posted:Brute, did you want to get the kill credit for the bandit guard for your personal quest? Sure.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:14
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That Italian Guy posted:Hey SalTheBard, don't forget to let me know which cards you want to recover with your Minor Stamina Potion! You do have one (instead of the health potion) since the thread has voted for boots of striding + minor stamina potion for the Brute's intems. Yep will PM you shortly.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:14
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SalTheBard posted:Sure. Okay, I'll start to go for the archers then, the short rest is back on, please.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:15
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Reik posted:Okay, I'll start to go for the archers then, the short rest is back on, please. Sorry, actually I misunderstood what you said. With the Bandit disarmed my plan was to engage the Archers in the back since I have a tool I can use to "disarm" the two traps back there and deal a fair amount of damage at the same time.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:21
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Quick rules question: If I have a card that is Move 4 / Push 1 can I move 3, push, move 1 or do I have to take all the "move" at once?
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Dec 27, 2018 16:26
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SalTheBard posted:Sorry, actually I misunderstood what you said. With the Bandit disarmed my plan was to engage the Archers in the back since I have a tool I can use to "disarm" the two traps back there and deal a fair amount of damage at the same time. No problem. Since the bandit went after you did last round, his disarm has already worn off, so he will be able to attack this turn. If you want, I can try and finish off the bandit guard and free you up to go after the archers. SalTheBard posted:Quick rules question: All at once.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:27
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SalTheBard posted:Quick rules question: Move has to be all at once. Also re: Pushes, if you have Push 2 or more, you have to use all of it if its possible - you can't just Push 1 if there's still an open space they could be pushed to after that.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:27
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Reik posted:No problem. Since the bandit went after you did last round, his disarm has already worn off, so he will be able to attack this turn. If you want, I can try and finish off the bandit guard and free you up to go after the archers. Christ, this is so much harder for me to envision spatially in my head without the actual board in front of me.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:30
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SalTheBard posted:Christ, this is so much harder for me to envision spatially in my head without the actual board in front of me. You could draw a rough copy of the current board state. I assume you have some kind of minis around you could use?
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Dec 27, 2018 16:33
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Reik posted:You could draw a rough copy of the current board state. I assume you have some kind of minis around you could use? Thats a good idea! I don't actually own Gloomhaven, my brother in law does so I use all of his stuff, but I have a hex map for DND and some minis so I can draw this out a bit.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:46
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SalTheBard posted:Thats a good idea! I don't actually own Gloomhaven, my brother in law does so I use all of his stuff, but I have a hex map for DND and some minis so I can draw this out a bit. I imagine it would be difficult if I hadn't played probably 60 hours of Gloomhaven already.
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Dec 27, 2018 16:55
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