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Some Numbers posted:On the other hand, in exchange for not being able to stand in melee range, the Spellweaver could simply delete other enemies. Don't underestimate (or undersell) a Cragheart's ability to pump out damage. They're also a ton easier to play -- Spellweaver is a hard class for a new person to play every scenario because they're VERY tied to a certain play style which is not instantly intuitive. An inexperienced Spellweaver is going to exhaust a lot earlier than an inexperienced Cragheart, and we're going to have a new player for each class every scenario. Spellweaver is good, don't get me wrong, it's just not well suited for changing controllers so often IMO. All the other starting classes are much friendlier in that regard. My vote goes to an unconventional but still quite deadly party -- Cragheart, Mind Thief, Scoundrel. The Mind Thief and Scoundrel can be melee buddies and the Cragheart can provide ranged damage, heals, and some bulk if needed. I'd also like to sign up to play. EDIT: Not trying to minmax on the Spellweaver, I just think it's a class which requires a couple scenarios under your belt before most people are going to be able to keep up with it and not putter out halfway through a scenario and then not be able to play any more. Zurai fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Dec 19, 2018 |
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Dec 19, 2018 21:54
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I don't like the Fall of Man. It's a badly designed quest which can be actually-impossible to complete depending on how the campaign goes. I'm voting for Implement of Light (which at least gives our rat the guaranteed option to retire if we get tired of them) and Goliath Toppler (because doubling up on Sun is silly). I don't really have an opinion on the other votables.
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Dec 20, 2018 14:16
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SalTheBard posted:The PQ isn't for 2 minis though. It's angry face (#14) Trophy Hunt unlocks Two Minis.
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Dec 20, 2018 15:10
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Cragheart: Terror Firma for the name. God I wish he was a wrassler or luchador, that would be even more perfect. He kiiiiind of is. Craghearts wrassle, they just don't wrassle the enemies necessarily. Craghearts get to throw giant boulders around and shatter obstacles to damage nearby enemies/shatter obstacles with nearby enemies. It's a super fun class to play as long as you don't mind being slow as molasses in January. (for the record, the starting classes are generally considered completely non-spoiler territory because as soon as you open their box -- which you're allowed to do from the very beginning -- you can see all of their cards; if That Italian Guy would rather keep the higher level abilities of the starter classes quiet for now I'll erase those parts of this post)
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Dec 20, 2018 17:16
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namad posted:I am a bit sad though because a level 1 mindthief might not reach level 9 before retiring. Whereas a mindthief created later in the campaign with a head start, might reach 9. This one almost certainly will given the way the thread is leaning with its personal quest.
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Dec 20, 2018 17:24
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@Some Italian Guy: You missed me for the sign up sheet (probably because I didn't bold my request -- mea culpa). Please sign me up to play. Thanks!
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Dec 20, 2018 18:02
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I changed my mind about not voting for names. I vote for Master Splinter for the rat, Rocky for the sapient rock, and Bullwinkle for the big guy with the horns. It's too bad there's no turtle-like race in the setting to pair Splinter with.
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Dec 20, 2018 19:39
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namad posted:I think in the rulebook personal quest's are selected in secret but battle goals can be selected publicly? Then again maybe I just misread the rules, but when I played we selected battle goal's in public (of course it wasn't up for debate but if someone selected a goal that literally made another players goal impossible they could choose not to choose it). Battle Goals are intended to be completely secret until the end of the scenario when you reveal whether or not you completed yours. Of course, it's usually pretty easy for an experienced player to figure out why the Scoundrel suddenly doesn't want to end their turn on a space with a coin, etc, but that's the intent. According to the designer of the game, Personal Quests are up to the players whether they're secret or not. There's no rule prohibiting players from sharing their Personal Quests, but in his home game the players keep them secret.
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Dec 20, 2018 20:30
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I definitely agree that it's way too early to be planning retirements (there are some which can happen early on, though not so much in the batch we got), but I would just like to reiterate that Fall of Man is terribly designed and might actually become essentially impossible to complete. I'll expound more on it once we get much further along in the game if I remember (it's waaaaay too spoilery now), but it's just an awful, awful quest. Personal Quests clearly did not get a lot of sanity/balance testing -- the rest of the game is almost beautifully balanced, but there are some really obnoxious PQs.
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Dec 20, 2018 21:47
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I posted my reasoning in the Trad Games Gloomhaven thread. I don't want to derail this thread any further and the reasons are pretty spoiler-filled. EDIT: I also want to be clear that it's not a fail state or anything if we go with The Fall of Man, we can always just set aside the rat if we get tired of it and the end of the Personal Quest isn't in sight. Zurai fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Dec 20, 2018 |
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Dec 20, 2018 22:25
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Piell posted:Mindthief: Cloak of Invisibility (Item 005), Minor Stamina Potion (Item 013) Agreeing with these items.
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Dec 21, 2018 13:27
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As a Cragheart player, some advice for whoever's got Rocky: A Cragheart player at this level can choose to focus more on ranged or more on melee attacks. With this party composition, you probably want to lean towards the ranged attacks, since both Bullwinkle and Master Splinter are melee characters (Splinter has some ranged attacks but they are more crowd control than actual damaging attacks). Your weakness is that your initiative is hideously slow and, at level 1, so is your general movement speed. I would advise bringing Backup Ammunition, Dirt Tornado, and Massive Boulder just for their movement even if they weren't also good ranged cards; I'd also keep an eye on the cards you cut to make sure you don't cut all of your cards with half-decent initiative. You'll have to deal with acting later in the turn order, it's part of the balancing factor for the class being as good as it is, but you don't want to completely remove your ability to act quickly-ish if you need to. Also, one piece of advice for the Master Splinter player, based on the mis-adventures of my home game's Mindthief: Please, please bring The Mind's Weakness. All of your other cards pretty much assume you're getting that +2 damage.
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Dec 21, 2018 15:33
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I believe That Italian Guy is going to be using the display from Gloomhaven Helper, which will display all of the relevant character and monster stats.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:03
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In our personal game I lay out the rooms ahead of time but don't populate them with monsters, obstacles, or traps until the door is opened. I think that's a good compromise between being able to plan for the scenario and keeping the mystique. I tell my players which monsters will be in the scenario but I don't tell them what those monsters can do unless we've fought them before; again, a compromise solution. I do agree that the scenario objective absolutely needs to be revealed at the start. There are some scenarios which strictly require that the players take certain types of cards which they might not otherwise take and they need to know that. Not this one, they kept the goal simple for scenario 1, but down the line the goals can get really varied and can dramatically change which cards the players want to bring.
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Dec 21, 2018 17:53
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Alright, who left Friendly Fire on? This is a "feature" of the Cragheart. Rocky very strong, however Rocky not very good at not hurting friends who get in way of attacks. It's actually one of the few ways in the entire game to damage your allies. Incidentally, that friendly fire-capable AOE damage the Cragheart does also completely ignores shields, which makes it quite valuable against certain types of enemies who come with high shield values and low HP. It turns out that certain enemies are extremely vulnerable to almost being hit by giant rocks (or jumping Rockys). Zurai fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jan 2, 2019 |
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Jan 2, 2019 15:41
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Also not having time to hoover up all the loot is an intentional gameplay mechanic. In our home games we rarely end up with more than a couple coins on each character (unless someone is playing the Scoundrel, who is very, very good at looting).
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Jan 2, 2019 18:33
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Yeah, this is supposed to represent an extremely stressful and exhausting experience for the characters -- one of the things which catches a lot of new players by surprise is just how quickly you can run out of cards (ie "become exhausted") just by not paying too much attention to your loss cards and your rest cycles. By the end of a scenario the characters are generally intended to be bruised, battered, and just physically unable to press forward for much longer. Also while there are coin tokens on the floor, the actual act of looting is rifling through the corpse's pockets, breaking open furniture to find hidden compartments, etc -- there generally aren't just discrete piles of "LOOT HERE" laying around. Obviously there are situations where the abstraction breaks down a little bit, but that's the nature of abstracted mechanics. In general I think it works quite well.
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Jan 2, 2019 19:30
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MarquiseMindfang posted:Apparently this isn't actually widely available out here in the UK yet and all the prices I'm seeing are imports? Which would explain a lot. It's on its 3rd or 4th printing, it's just that each print run sells out quite quickly. I'm quite certain that there are UK distributors of the game, they may just be out until the next print run.
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Jan 3, 2019 02:25
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Yeah, it's true that road events are generally negative and city events are generally positive, but skipping them by powering through linked scenarios is depriving yourself of content. I support going back to Gloomhaven then going to scenario 2. EDIT: Also, increase the scenario difficulty to +0
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Jan 3, 2019 14:13
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Iron Helmets are incredible peace of mind for the price, and they don't really compete with anything else for that slot for a while. Technically Eagle Eye Goggles are also a head slot item, but I don't find them that great for the price on the Cragheart. They're good, don't get me wrong, but I can usually find more attractive things to spend 30 gold on. They're better for classes like the Spellweaver who do actual AOE damage more frequently and will almost always long rest by necessity so they'll get the goggles back multiple times. I find myself short resting almost exclusively on my Cragheart. Iron Helmets, meanwhile, have saved myself and our party's Brute a ton of damage and makes it much easier to calculate the risk of putting yourself in harm's way.
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Jan 3, 2019 16:20
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Fat Samurai posted:This. Well, two of us are big, anyway. Master Splinter is rather diminutive.
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Jan 4, 2019 14:14
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Our only scenario options at this point are Barrow Lair, Clockwork Cove (side scenario gained from looting the chest in the Black Barrow), or re-doing the Black Barrow for shits'n'giggles. Or a random dungeon, technically. The thread chose Barrow Lair. I'm fine with saving the vermling. Really I think Bullwinkle would be kind of indifferent, it's not an Inox being lynched (as if these puny humans could do so) and his personal quest has no bearing on it, but at least one of his companions seems to feel strongly about it so why not?
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Jan 4, 2019 15:33
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I'm playing in a group with 4 consistent players and another couple inconsistent players and we still have trouble with getting 10 donations because I'm the only one who will donate! 
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Jan 5, 2019 00:48
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Eat the berries. I'm Bullwinkle for this scenario. My intent for this round is to act very quickly and disable two of the archers while getting in among them to attact the attention of the third. I'll be using one of the traps (the one adjacent to two of them).
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Jan 5, 2019 19:10
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It doesn't actually matter which hex I start in since I'll be able to do my opening turn regardless of positioning, so if C2 is important to whoever else wanted it, I'll happily move over to E2 instead. My plan for my turn is to use the bottom of Overwhelming Assault to move to C3 and push Bandit Archer 3 into the trap adjacent to it, then use the top of Provoking Roar to damage and disarm Bandit Archer 1.
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Jan 7, 2019 02:58
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archduke.iago posted:If I'm reading this right, this sequence ends up putting Archer 3 on G2, stunned. Archer 1 will target you at disadvantage, while Archer 2 will stay put and shoot you as well. I don't think there's anywhere I can stand to draw one of the shots away from you. The fact that the Archers end up like this is a bit unfortunate for my AOE but w/e, I'll use the bottom of Rumbling Advance to move to F3 (damaging both archers) and attack the one in the back with the top of my other card. Archer 1 won't attack me because it will be disarmed. Archer 2 will target me, but they're only doing a base of 1 damage so it's pretty negligible so don't worry about drawing fire. EDIT: I forgot I have to push the full distance (that's a rule I've been playing wrong at home). So yeah, it's a little awkward. Sorry about that! I should have used my move 3 push 1 instead. My bad. Zurai fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Jan 7, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 04:17
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Sorry, I meant to shoot you a PM before I went to bed last night but it slipped my mind.
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Jan 7, 2019 14:50
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I should be able to either mop up Bandit Archer 1 or contribute to Bandit Archer 2's demise and then either open the door or be ready for the door to be open. If the two of you can kill or cripple Archer 2, we should be good to move into the next room.
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Jan 7, 2019 20:52
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I don't think dawdling is going to benefit us. Let's just mop these guys up and kick down the door.
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Jan 7, 2019 22:53
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I would be ... displeased ... if both archers die this turn and the door isn't open. It is also counterproductive to intentionally not kill an enemy; we'll just be in exactly this same situation next turn. One of the things I've learned playing Gloomhaven is that fully clearing a room before advancing to the next is not necessary and often actively harmful. We're on a strict time limit even if there's no actual scenario time limit on this one. We only have so many cards in hand and we have to play two every round that we don't long rest. I'm willing to listen, but unless someone is very persuasive on the benefits of not doing so, I'm going to have that door open one way or another. If I have to open it, I won't have my tank ability active and will have to spend another turn not moving to activate it, so I'd prefer if it were someone else, but if I have to I'll do it myself. By the way, for bystanders, this is an authentic Gloomhaven experience. I don't think we get through a single scenario without debating when to open doors. Elephant Ambush posted:So could the both of you attack first and then move through the door next turn? I can do that or I can attack and tank up. Unfortunately at level 1 I have to choose between moving and tanking. EDIT: Or at least, moving and initializing tank mode. I have a persistent loss card that soaks damage but it's a bottom. Zurai fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 7, 2019 23:42
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OK, then I'm going to go with relatively low but not blazing fast initiative, hit an archer relatively hard, then set up to tank in the next room. I'll be able to move a huge amount and hit an enemy hard next turn, depending on what's needed.
Zurai fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Jan 8, 2019 |
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Jan 8, 2019 03:46
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namad posted:EDIT: Whoopsie I forgot, bosses don't use attack decks, their abilities are spoiled on their stat sheet, so everyone, players included, should know what the bosses two super powers are. Already, right? Which means I can say, don't open the door, the boss is a powerful summoner, and opening the door last action could result in a mission loss. Bosses do have an AI deck, but it's largely comprised of "Special 1" and "Special 2" cards. They do have a couple normal attacks.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:00
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Yeah, boss scenarios are usually dicey and depend heavily on which specials they decide to spam. I'll talk more about it once his specials are revealed, I actually think this is a cleverly designed boss.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:18
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Elephant Ambush posted:I brought a card whose bottom lets me give an ally a free move. If you want a slingshot next turn that would be hilarious but otherwise I can charge in with you and gently caress poo poo up. That is hilarious with Balanced Measure, but given that we all have four Nulls in our decks at the moment, I'd rather not stack all our eggs in one basket like that.
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Jan 8, 2019 04:45
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Elephant Ambush posted:3 nulls but yeah it's risky. At the same time we can't wait until we all burn all our curses before going in hard. Four, the scenario adds three curses to each of us and we all have one null base. Crypts suck rear end. I agree that we can't wait to burn all our curses, I just don't want to put all our eggs into one gigantic Balanced Measure cannon even if I could theoretically do like 3/4 of the boss's HP in one attack with it. I'd rather spread the risk around some.
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Jan 8, 2019 05:01
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I'm gonna hit one or the other of the archers depending on what's alive and pop Warding Strength. The traps are going to be annoying but we may be able to make use of them.
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Jan 8, 2019 13:41
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The archers drew their trap laying card FWIW. They're going immediately after you. I'll target the archer on the lower health after your attack to increase the odds of finishing one of the two off, unless Rocky is planning to just use the default attack action to finish off Archer 2, in which case I'll hit Archer 1.
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Jan 8, 2019 15:24
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Also, I'd forgotten that the boss's Specials were revealed already, so a bit more pontification from me on them: I am of the opinion that the Bandit Commander is a great boss design for the part of the game it's in. Scenario 1 shows the party that they have to manage their resources or they'll get their teeth kicked in; Scenario 2 demonstrates the value of focused fire and the "there can only be as many of a specific enemy as there are standees for that enemy" rule. Unless the Bandit Commander is extremely nice to us, he's going to be opening at least a couple of the rooms branched off of the central room, and those rooms unsurprisingly contain enemies -- however, the four rooms in total contain more enemies than there are standees, so as long as we concentrate our attacks on the boss and on the enemies which don't come spilling out of those rooms, there's a limit to what we have to face. We obviously would prefer the boss not open all the rooms anyway because he'll teleport away from us as we're trying to gank him, plus we still have to kill all the enemies he reveals to win the scenario, but the design is very clever because if you get distracted trying to clear out the rooms as they open you will almost certainly lose this scenario, while if you maintain target discipline and kill the boss it's still manageable.
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Jan 8, 2019 15:35
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I was trying to avoid spoilers for the audience :P We know what's behind all the doors and what all these enemies do but the audience may not. They do know there are zombles though, and, well, the standees make it pretty obvious that these are not the fast variety (they're rather akin to Warcraft 3/WoW Abominations in appearance if not size).
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Jan 8, 2019 16:13
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Reik posted:Since they move so slow, throwing obstacles in their way is always a fun strategy with the Cragheart. Plants vs Zombies: Gloomhaven Edition. Yeah, playing tower defense with the Cragheart can be pretty fun.
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Jan 8, 2019 16:55
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