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Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 19, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

"Lazy" or not, Game Freak aren't going to change a loving thing as long as Pokemon makes more money than god with every new game.

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TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

Dabir posted:

New Pokemon Snap shown off, some people upset that it's another Pokemon Snap game somehow (???)

I thought people were only "mad" at the New Pokemon Snap because of how much better it looks compared to the mainline games. Least that's the impression I got from social media going "Why didn't SnS look like THIS?!"

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011

Tae posted:

Woolie does a lot of declarative statements for things he doesn't experience, that's like his signature thing.

Literally every time Type Moon comes up

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


MorningMoon posted:

The pokemon thing is dumb as someone in that fandom.

It absolutely is "you got what you want and you're whining because of it" and it requires a wall text to clarify it. The optics just ain't good when so much of the fanbase has been begging for "Gen 4 Remakes!!" for about three years now.
I haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet, but in reference to the meme that the podcast title quotes ("gluttons who would not be satisficed with all the riches in heaven" ....have other people just not had stuff announced that wasn't quite what they wanted?

Like idk what all this nonsense fighting game fans are complaining about, there's like a billion fighting games these days, the genre has almost never been more mainstream, I'm sure fans of a dozen different dead genres would happily take bad netcode if it meant getting games at all!

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


The Diamond/Pearl remake looks fine imo

Patware
Jan 3, 2005

Oxyclean posted:

Like idk what all this nonsense fighting game fans are complaining about, there's like a billion fighting games these days, the genre has almost never been more mainstream, I'm sure fans of a dozen different dead genres would happily take bad netcode if it meant getting games at all!

except fighting games are a genre that lives or dies on getting as close to frame-perfect as possible. most other online games can soak some stuttering and some lag, but not fighting games. bad netcode means that large swaths of people can functionally only play fighting games in single player if they don't have people around them that also want to play the fighting game right next to them. you're right that fighting games are a super alive genre right now but huge piles of them are nearly unplayable online if you don't have... i will charitably say unusually good internet in your area in the United States. i have no idea how internet infrastructure holds up elsewhere in general in comparision, just that i'm very certain ours is very bad on average

re: snap, i didn't see anyone mad about pokemon snap except people that are literally too young to know what pokemon snap was - which is a lot of people, that is a 22 year old game - grumpy that it wasn't a remake

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Woolie was referencing to a specific franchise fanbase. So compare pokemon fans to f zero, not racing in general.

Yardbomb
Jul 11, 2011

What's with the eh... bretonnian dance, sir?

Oxyclean posted:

Like idk what all this nonsense fighting game fans are complaining about, there's like a billion fighting games these days, the genre has almost never been more mainstream, I'm sure fans of a dozen different dead genres would happily take bad netcode if it meant getting games at all!

This is ludicrously out of line with what bad netcode actually means for a lot of fighting games, which basically have no matchmaking players ever online and require you to join discords and plan games ahead of time thanks to their abysmal netcode driving off casual and middling playerbase, which is annoying and frustrating as hell when you just want to play some, plus makes the game de-facto dead anyway for the vast majority of people who'd want to get it or learn it better, who are only gonna find discord diehards so far apart in skill that they're only gonna get stomped without even knowing the first bit about why or how they did. Good netcode is like the premier complaint for the entire genre and thankfully it's finally being noticed, now that so many have only had the option for netplay thanks to the kalamazoovirus. Japan, SK and other crazy-internet-small-places a lot of the time could pull the "WORKS ON MY END" excuse because they still have a thousand arcades and in those places are actually often the first choice for playing and their average internet is basically sci-fi compared to most places, meaning they rarely had to care, but again the virus changed a whole lot and gave a lot of developers a good shock about why netcode matters. If a billion fighting games had a billion instances of terrible netcode, fighting games would be a corpse.

Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Mar 3, 2021

Dabir
Nov 10, 2012

TaurusOxford posted:

I thought people were only "mad" at the New Pokemon Snap because of how much better it looks compared to the mainline games. Least that's the impression I got from social media going "Why didn't SnS look like THIS?!"

there's people in the switch thread that apparently invented an entire open world nature photography simulator in their heads then got really upset when new Pokémon snap wasn't that

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

Dabir posted:

there's people in the switch thread that apparently invented an entire open world nature photography simulator in their heads then got really upset when new Pokémon snap wasn't that

It's becoming more and more hilarious that the less ambitious Pokemon gets, the more ambitious people's expectations for it become.

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

New Pokemon Snap is so exactly what I've wanted for decades I worry where the monkey's paw is. It's not like photographic rail shooter is an overdone genre.

Patware
Jan 3, 2005

controlled 100% via gyro and voice commands performed via a new peripheral that is packed in with a different game

Emalde
May 3, 2007

Just a cage of bones, there's nothing inside.

A Sometimes Food posted:

New Pokemon Snap is so exactly what I've wanted for decades I worry where the monkey's paw is. It's not like photographic rail shooter is an overdone genre.

It has exactly as much content/playtime as Snap 64 :negative:

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


Yardbomb posted:

This is ludicrously out of line with what bad netcode actually means for a lot of fighting games...
I should have probably specified I was being a bit disingenuous / snarky, but my point was mostly that it's really easy to take a stance of "how are you not happy" if you don't actually know much about the game/series/fanbase/etc.

Tae posted:

Woolie was referencing to a specific franchise fanbase. So compare pokemon fans to f zero, not racing in general.
(Pretend it's a few years ago) MVC fans got a whole new game and all they're doing is complaining about there not being X-Men in it or whatever.

Smoking Crow
Feb 14, 2012

*laughs at u*

Tae posted:

Strive is coming with good rollback, which eases the pain of "this isn't the game I want, but also I can literally play online with people without feeling like I'm dying"

I wish i liked strive. The intense zooms and screen shaking give me migraines and eyestrain. I don't think it'll have the option to turn off stage effects :(

Oxyclean posted:

I haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet, but in reference to the meme that the podcast title quotes ("gluttons who would not be satisficed with all the riches in heaven" ....have other people just not had stuff announced that wasn't quite what they wanted?

Like idk what all this nonsense fighting game fans are complaining about, there's like a billion fighting games these days, the genre has almost never been more mainstream, I'm sure fans of a dozen different dead genres would happily take bad netcode if it meant getting games at all!

I've heard from japanese players that fgs are dying because arcades are dying and they can't imagine one existing without the other

Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Mar 3, 2021

The Bee
Nov 25, 2012

Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!

Emalde posted:

It has exactly as much content/playtime as Snap 64 :negative:

Doesn't it have at least, like, three times the Pokemon?

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

He's been tapping into Aunt May's bank account!
Didn't I kill him with a HELICOPTER?

Oxyclean posted:

I haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet, but in reference to the meme that the podcast title quotes ("gluttons who would not be satisficed with all the riches in heaven" ....have other people just not had stuff announced that wasn't quite what they wanted?

Like idk what all this nonsense fighting game fans are complaining about, there's like a billion fighting games these days, the genre has almost never been more mainstream, I'm sure fans of a dozen different dead genres would happily take bad netcode if it meant getting games at all!

Pokemon gets so much stuff. Like yeah, New Pokemon Snap looks real loving good! then we're getting another mainline game later this year, and an ARPG next year, and the gacha is still running, and pokemon GO exists and last year was the DLC of the switch game, and the anime is always there and every couple years it pumps out a deluxe mini-series project like Twilight Wings or Origins. Pokemon basically gets as much content as an entire genre, but fans are mad the main entries don't look good.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Pokemon will never improve to a satifactory level for older fans because it's a series made for 7 year olds as its target market that comes out a new game once every two years at most. And they have to juggle nearly 1,000 pokemon in the process

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
They solved the pokemon issue by not remotely putting all of them anymore

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Tae posted:

They solved the pokemon issue by not remotely putting all of them anymore
But.....that.....suuuuucks! (post-game)

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

RareAcumen posted:

Pokemon will never improve to a satifactory level for older fans because it's a series made for 7 year olds as its target market that comes out a new game once every two years at most. And they have to juggle nearly 1,000 pokemon in the process

I mean at this point I would be completely find if they spent the next couple of gens not adding new Pokemon and instead just actually refining what they have.

Pokemon is in desperate need for the same overhaul that Monster Hunter got with World.

The Bee
Nov 25, 2012

Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!
I'd much rather they stop importing all the Pokemon and make Home into a hub for minigames, Anything Goes battling/trading, and depreciated features. Literally no other mon franchise in the world has the same expectation put on Pokemon. Digimon has never had them all, even from its very first game. Monster Hunter's always cycling favorites in and out of circulation. Even less famous ones like Monster Rancher have always gone in cycles. It doesn't help that Pokemon game quality has been stagnant, too, so you have some fans annoyed for legit reasons and some annoyed because we don't have Breath of the Wild with 1000 fully animated, fully rideable Pokemon lovingly handplaced into a perfect simulation of a real world ecology.

A Sometimes Food
Dec 8, 2010

Still angry the Monster Rancher Switch remasters didn't get localised.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


The Bee posted:

I'd much rather they stop importing all the Pokemon and make Home into a hub for minigames, Anything Goes battling/trading, and depreciated features. Literally no other mon franchise in the world has the same expectation put on Pokemon. Digimon has never had them all, even from its very first game. Monster Hunter's always cycling favorites in and out of circulation. Even less famous ones like Monster Rancher have always gone in cycles. It doesn't help that Pokemon game quality has been stagnant, too, so you have some fans annoyed for legit reasons and some annoyed because we don't have Breath of the Wild with 1000 fully animated, fully rideable Pokemon lovingly handplaced into a perfect simulation of a real world ecology.

Sword/Shield already did the "dont import them all" thing and it didn't really do much for the game.

Digimon has never had them all because beyond a few iconic few noone really cares or is attached to like half of them. (That said there's probably at least a few pokemon that could be dropped without disappointing too many people.) and Monster Hunter is a totally different dynamic. Pokemon kinda quickly made a tradition of letting you trade between games, so people expect it, have any of those other examples really had cross game/cross gen compat?

I think that Arceus game might be more a long the lines of what you're thinking though, or at least if any game is going to have a smaller pool, the direction of that game seems to point to that.

Roth
Jul 9, 2016

A Sometimes Food posted:

Still angry the Monster Rancher Switch remasters didn't get localised.

I didn't know about this and now I'm angry

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!
wait how does the CD thing work on the Switch

Patware
Jan 3, 2005

Pretty sure the same thing the handheld games did: you just enter a character string

This is probably why they weren't localized

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



RareAcumen posted:

Pokemon will never improve to a satisfactory level for older fans because it's a series made for 7 year olds as its target market that comes out a new game once every two years at most. And they have to juggle nearly 1,000 pokemon in the process

I'm a day zero Pokemon fan and I've been mostly satisfied with the franchise. People just like to blow most of the franchise's issues up to seem bigger than they are. :colbert:

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

Vandar posted:

I'm a day zero Pokemon fan and I've been mostly satisfied with the franchise. People just like to blow most of the franchise's issues up to seem bigger than they are. :colbert:

Sun/Moon was a very good game and I think Sword/Shield isn't bad, although it was way too rushed for the first "console" mainline game.

Patware
Jan 3, 2005

Vandar posted:

I'm a day zero Pokemon fan and I've been mostly satisfied with the franchise. People just like to blow most of the franchise's issues up to seem bigger than they are. :colbert:

i'm a day zero pokemon fan and i think the game suffers from a grievous failure to iterate on its core, instead just stacking more and more barely-developed side things around it that then get thrown out for the next entry

our opinions have now pair-annihilated and neither of us matters. we may retire to the smoking chamber

scary ghost dog
Aug 5, 2007
im a day zero pokemon fan and ive experienced so many other, better kinds of video game since then that the appeal it used to have, while still there, is just not strong enough to justify playing them anymore

Gyro Zeppeli
Jul 19, 2012

sure hope no-one throws me off a bridge

https://twitter.com/ArcSystemWorksU/status/1367278816125718537

Well, poo poo.

At least 2 months gives me hope they're not being crunched too hard? Naive I know.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
2 months sounds like they found a fixable bug but need more time to hit cert, probably online based since there was a major bug regarding being able to challenge people.

lets hang out
Jan 10, 2015

last minute delays always mean more crunch not less

The Bee
Nov 25, 2012

Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!
I'm also a day zero Pokemon fan, and I'm of the opinion that the core of the series is really solid and entertaining, but its also getting increasingly flimsy and is being puffed up by less and less trimmings. I'm an ex-WoW player too, so I have this feeling for not one but two series, but at least WoW's been getting more complicated over time instead of less even if we get less content in each expac.

I feel like "Sword and Shield is a fun game at its heart and there's nothing wrong with enjoying them" isn't mutually exclusive with "Sword and Shield literally cost twice the price for half the content and that kinda sucks."

Patware
Jan 3, 2005

Tae posted:

2 months sounds like they found a fixable bug but need more time to hit cert, probably online based since there was a major bug regarding being able to challenge people.

they directly call out the lobbies needing some more work. they also mentioned the stability, but from what i've heard from people the stability was extremely good

Phantasium
Dec 27, 2012

Blockhouse posted:

wait how does the CD thing work on the Switch

they have a database of cd titles to choose from online.

probably a part of why they weren't localized

Shinji2015
Aug 31, 2007
Keen on the hygiene and on the mission like a super technician.

Tae posted:

2 months sounds like they found a fixable bug but need more time to hit cert, probably online based since there was a major bug regarding being able to challenge people.

I wonder if they're replacing the lobbies altogether. No one liked them, and after two betas of everyone going "this is easily the single worst thing about the online experience," maybe a higher-up finally listened.

That sucks, though, I've been jonesing hard to play more Strive since the beta ended

Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008
My opinion on Pokemon is that I like the first generation or two because I can recognise and name most of them. I'm unfamiliar with the vast majority of the current roster, which is why I like Let's Go and why New Pokemon Snap doesn't appeal to me personally.

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Emalde
May 3, 2007

Just a cage of bones, there's nothing inside.

The Bee posted:

Doesn't it have at least, like, three times the Pokemon?

The monkey's paw curls.

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