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Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Yardbomb posted:

That's pretty much Warframe's most dire flaw, it's a super good game, but everything is incredibly confusing to a new person. You'll bumble into the armory and store and see everything costing plat (When virtually everything in the game can be crafted easily), you'll see menus to incubate poo poo (Which comes in later for combat pets) or turn mods into endo or reveal rivens (Which are later game stuff) and just be clueless. As good as it is, it almost requires coming into it with a friend who can tell you how to actually start the game proper and understand what things do.

I was loving it until I started playing with other players and had. To stop. At every chest. And every pickup. No matter how useless. And just getting through a few rooms took way more time than was necessary. Mind you I was brand new to the game and even I could keep up a steady pace. Not speedrunning, but not that frustrating rhythm. Reminded me of playing Borderlands with people who had to stop and inspect every drop no matter how garbage it was.

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Plan Z
May 6, 2012

El Gallinero Gros posted:

I'd never heard of how much of a disaster this Walking Dead game Matt covered was. Jeez.

I remember it being announced semi-early in Payday 2's long life cycle, along with Payday 3 and a mixture of titled and untitled projects (have they ever confirmed what Storm was going to be? It was on their page not long after PD2 launched). It was supposed to come out on StarVR, and they put a StarVR headset in Payday 2 as one of the game masks, on top of other promotions like a mission where you get to steal a StarVR headset from a train. Then there was just like no word on any of their projects for a few years.

The big thing that people just kept asking them about was their engine. It's apparently based off a racing game engine, while the building tools for Payday 2 were so messed up that the lack of an "undo" feature actively halted new content for PD2 from coming out. A bit after PD2 came out, it was falling apart with every new content drop introducing new bugs with old bugs popping back up (and they just didn't do bug fixes for a while until that microtransaction fiasco it landed in). All anyone could think was just like "How did they convince a TV studio that they would make a great game with that busted-rear end tech, and how could it look and play like anything but a Payday 2 skin swap even after five years?"

Plan Z fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Feb 28, 2019

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Gyro Zeppeli posted:

Man, watching the DS3 LP, and it just feels off having Matt there too. Soulsborne should have forever just been The Chewie and Fuckface Show.

Their DS LPs are finally what got me to pick up the games again and finish them. I was always curious about Demon's but wasn't really down to play it. My biggest disappointment was checking out the Demon's LP and it was a livestream where you could barely make out the screen with three extra guys there not shutting up and going so far as telling him what would be in the next room.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Can we all just agree that From games need to just put a simple "What this item is actually loving for" line in item descriptions?

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

When I was a kid, I told my friend I was having trouble with Secret of Mana and he said it's because I wasn't running in circles killing enemies over and over until numbers went up, so I used my Game Genie to cheat to a higher level and actually played the game in a way which was enjoyable.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Dias posted:

Souls Fans continue to be The Worst, news at five.

The most frustrating thing with every release is "hey I found an actual proper issue with the game (anything from a bug to some oversight)," being responded to with "no it's perfect, From games are actually insanely easy because they give you so many tools to play with." Then within a year, those superfans are making videos and spamming comments talking about all of the things wrong with that game and how it's now the worst in the series if you examine the design elements. One of the first times I ever heard Pat talk, he was ragging on Demon's Souls and Dark Souls because he hated the games at first because (I love this series mind) almost every single title in the series sucks at conveying important details to the player. From nonsensical item or stat descriptions to how even magic or backstabbing is supposed to work in some of them, it's 100% understandable when they cause anyone to bounce off the titles, and those issues won't get fixed when reviews get scared to bring them up as things that can be improved upon. I felt the same way as Pat initially to the point where the SBFP videos helped me into the series by Pat realizing what hurt his initial experiences and pulling down a lot of the barriers that kept me out initially.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

The only problem I have with the podcast is that they're retreading a lot of ground episode-to-episode. Having Matt as a third could break up some monotony with an extra comment or "hey I watched a weird movie" discussion. Otherwise, it's just like the SBFP podcast where it'd just be Woolie and Pat.

Oxyclean posted:

All I know was Woolie making it easy and Pat giving some pointers (don't put points into x y and z and such) is what made me give DS1 another go and I am grateful for that because I fuckin love the series, regardless of how much it can put me on tilt.

The stat points is the big one. I always have this moat I need to cross with RPGs because I've been burned so many times with "No wonder you're having trouble, Dexterity is just bugged and flat-out doesn't work in that game," or something. Hearing Pat just go "Okay, you wanna do weapons? The spears you like are all DEX-based, so the more DEX you put in, the more worth it they'll be, but don't go over 40," is almost all I needed to hear.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

ArmyOfMidgets posted:

I can't believe Woolie would stunblock Pat with Dr. Faust like that

I do agree that they could use a guest ever now and then at Castle Superbeast. Love the podcast, but they do retread similar topics with similar conversations.

Be rad if they could get Slowbeef in. Those Retsutalks they were both on were awesome, especially Pat's.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Remember when Liam defended Mighty No. 9?

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Nalesh posted:

I think the problem is people talking past each other, since accessibility and making a game easier does not have to be the same thing. To be honest it is pretty insulting when people think that just adding more health to the player character, or less health to the enemy is accessibility. The best and easiest ways to improve accessibility in your game is to improve keybinding so unorthodox controllers such as custom made ones or the one microsoft made can be for better input options, or having visual cues too instead of just audio cues(For example, several things in Warframe is real bad about this, such as hunting for caches(They make a humming noise that you can use to track where it's hidden) or mining(the mining tool beeps faster the closer you get to the mining node, which is basically impossible to find without this beeping most of the time), yet no one gives a poo poo about it and tells deaf players to stop whining about these things)

The keybindings come up with Relic's RTS games. They have the old control scheme of arrow keys move camera (most RTSes make them WASD by default now), everything else is some kind of hotkeys that aren't conveniently next to each other and you can't change the schemes without digging into the preferences file. A bunch of left-handers bounce off their games because while I can't speak for them, they say it's especially annoying.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

RareAcumen posted:


[*]Changing QTE's to holds instead of taps


This ruled so hard in Spider-Man. For the obvious reasons but also because nobody likes mashing QTEs. And you know, even if you do prefer the tapping, the game shows a meter showing how much more tapping you have to do.

Rhonne posted:

Doesn't RE2make have some kind of invisible difficulty scaling so that you'll always have just enough ammo to finish the game?

I know it has that thing where the damage bosses receive can be adjusted so the player may not run out of ammo if they're at least playing nominally well. This is maybe a wrong reach, but I feel like even the old RE games had it to some extent, but that may just be bad memory. Lots of games have it as a hidden mechanic. One that shows up in shooters is giving the last bullet or few bullets extra damage.

Plan Z fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Apr 3, 2019

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Throwing out perfectly good food when there's a hair in it is actually genuinely pretty offensive to me.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Nalesh posted:

The problem with finding hair isn't so much the hair itself, but the fact that if they can't even be assed to wear hairnets, what other food safety poo poo are they ignoring.

That's not a guarantee. There are hundreds of thousands of hairs on different employees in a kitchen, one or two showing up on a plate once in a while is really damned good. The expectation that a hair should never end up in food and that you're going to be killed by a hair touching your food or somethingis unreasonable. I can understand someone being unnerved by it and I'm okay with a discount/comp on that plate, but the idea that a hair off someone's head is enough to throw away food when there are human beings eating out of dumpsters is so offensive to me.

And I'm trying not to be combative here. These are the kinds of discussions I like because I'm always curious about peoples' thoughts on it.

Plan Z fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Apr 14, 2019

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Brightman posted:

Somewhat, the notion of giving back the money for something that wasn't pre-paid made no sense though. GRRM should give back his money? What? You and everyone else got those books, to my knowledge there aren't Winds of Winter pre-orders at stake here or some poo poo. Like yeah, we can call him a lying jerk I guess, especially if you dig into it more and he kept saying he was close to finishing it going back to I think 2013~2015. Also the show was supposedly greenlit on the premise that of course he'd finish the books before the show caught up, it'd be "insane" to think he wouldn't. Another thing GRRM has said in the past, I think wrt the possibility of him dying before finishing the books, is that a possible ending for the story is that the comet crashes into the world and kills everyone, like if he dies that's the canon ending.


Also from the podcast, I don't think it's as necessary to write off Westworld season 3 as Woolie seems to think. Unlike GoT, season 2 wasn't their last season, they get to try and improve based on the criticism and potentially make a good season this time. It's probably unlikely, but I sorta feel like the disappointment he felt over GoT has made him super cynical, even though he was hardcore sandbagging WW season 2 at the time, it seems like any potential for a benefit of the doubt on this is now dead. Shows can have a bad season and be good again.

When Pat says something like the refunds, I don't take it as "Literally give me my money back." It's more of this weird sort of thing where he tries to fill in the map corners of an argument. Most people will agree that it was a jerk move for George to not even work on the books while doing these speaking tours where he talks about how to be a good writer just like George. To me, Pat says that kind of stuff to go "Yeah, we agree on that, but how strongly do we agree, huh? Come at me with some feelings and let's get some jokes going." I do the same thing sometimes, but badly. I'll just go, "Yo XCOM licks balls in this way" even though I love thosee games because I want to talk about how bad some of the systems in a game I love are, but in a way I haven't a thousand times.

It's kind of one of the things I like about Pat. Most people I listen to that I agree with are waffley (not necessarily a bad thing), always trying to come to a well-reasoned end point in an argument, making sure that they set up the right context for their views and everything, which usually results in them being way too over-stated and boring to listen to. Then I listen to Pat and he kind of just says something that'll get everyone to sit up in their seats.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Oh my god I know half the experience of '06 is running into its bullshit for the first time, but like not doing research or test plays might be a mistake, especially at this point (even with Matt as a guide). You always have to see someone fumbling around ignoring the tutorial markers, pointing out every little flaw. I bet we'll even run into the issue where they don't realize you have to manually save or you'll lose all of your progress. People also never realize this game is like twenty hours on a first playthrough. I appreciate that there are editing cuts, at least.

Plan Z fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jun 16, 2019

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Andrast posted:

Editing a Sonic 06 playthrough is cowardice

I didn't mean anything personnel by it.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Captain Invictus posted:

Thy were very vague with most stuff, but yeah, probably for the best.

And pat is absolutely right. FF7 is ABSURDLY huge in scope.

I wonder if they'd ever consider giving FF6 the remake treatment once FF7 remake is done. :v:

Yeah I was definitely on the same side with him when people were like "I want an FF7 remake," and I would respond "I bet you don't even understand what actually happened in that game, much less how big it actually was, and how much bigger you'd need to make it in order to work right."

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

It got a little confusing when Liam discovered the reset camera button so I couldn't tell if Liam was snapping the camera back to Sonic or they were doing an edit.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

The Sonic 06 LP is going really smoothly. It probably helps that they're playing the 360 version which controls a lot better, but it seems like Liam's familiar with Sonic Adventure style of jank, and that saves a lot of "AH WHAT THAT'S BULLSHIT" that anyone with sense could have figured out.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

I remember before Pokecapn's LP, 06 was regarded as awful but it didn't really stay on peoples' minds. I think the only people that got it were kids and people who played Sonic Adventure and could deal with some of the hyper-jank that 06 inherited from those games. It was only after everyone started to do the 200 part LPs and dying 10 times a minute did it start getting the Worst Game Ever treatment (which it super deserves). I played it on the 360, but I've noticed that most people play it on the PS3 and I can kind of tell that the game hates the dual-shocks even more than the 360 sticks.

But yeah, it had a time-delay before the internet really discovered how awful it was.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Pigbuster posted:

Liam's willingness to actually explore the side content in 06 paid dividends again. I had no idea the mini-Sonic gem existed, or that it gave you infinite jumps. Why in God's name is that in the game.

Yeah one of the things that makes Sonic 06 LPs such a slog is that a lot of them forget to buy upgrades after a while. They're usually either pointless or game-breakingly good. The teleport gem and the scale on their own are crazy busted, but are also used for some crazy speed-running stuff. I really recommend the AGDQ of Sonic 06. Those guys did a killer job.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Monaghan posted:

Man it really seems like they had a fun little movie at first and then the husband and wife director team came in and completely hosed it up for everyone. It's weird that most of the blame can be laid directly at the feet of only two people.

We're so used to blaming studios and executives these days. It does feel strange to be like "too much creativite license given to the directors is what hosed this licensed movie up."

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

I'm a couple videos in, I'm surprised how apologetic they are about the game. Not that that's a bad thing or anything, I guess their finding the bright side of it.

Liam is way more forgiving of jank than a lot of other people are. I only recently saw Sonic Adventure LPs from the past few years and was amazed by how many people couldn't do basic poo poo in that game when I would regularly beat it as a kid once I learned that just couldn't touch certain surfaces. or just knew how to fight the camera. Sonic '06 is relatively playable if you're the type of person who owned some poo poo games growing up that you played a lot because you didn't have a lot of choice. The big thing that always drives me nuts when I watch Sonic '06 LPs is watching people who just rub the characters' loving faces on everything instead of just giving enemies and surfaces space. That thing they all do when they play Silver, pick up physics objects, and rub them against enemies before trying to throw them rather than backing up first always drives me nuts.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Yardbomb posted:

Also yeah the Nier Automata LP just didn't work for me, I watched more and more of it over time, gave it more chances, but Woolie being blind even with someone trying to guide him some, Liam doing the "I can't wait for this next part" thing a lot, Liam sandbagging really good sidequests,

This was my disappointment with the Demon's Souls LP. Their Dark Souls LPs were fantastic and were what finally got me over the hurdle to re-launch Dark Souls 1 after dropping out of it and then finish the series- Except for DeS. I was going to just skip that one and watch their LP, but I lost interest because it's impossible to see the actual game, and there were too many commentators that included uninterested Matt, "Now Woolie, in this next part," Liam, and the third guy on call kind of doing the same as Liam. I didn't watch much of that one.

Plan Z fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Apr 8, 2020

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Woolie's WASD rant only got annoying when he started doing the Boomer thing of preferring to self-own and make up bullshit. When he was like "It's hard because I'm in my thirties and never really used it. It's also just uncomfortable," it was perfectly understandable. But when he's going "If you use WASD, your hands will miss the keys they're supposed to be on, and you'll die constantly!" or the "I'm just literally the one person too stupid to understand it," is when he reminded me of doing family tech support. It brought back the frustration of standing over my mother who preferred to print out a screen cap and slowly copy the page URL letter-by-letter to send a page link by e-mail instead of just copy-pasting it, then giving tons of dumb reasons to defend herself.

Plan Z fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Apr 8, 2020

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Vandar posted:

Are the Game Grumps still completely terrible at everything? I haven't watched them since the Jontron days when they played Naughty Bear, ignored all the tutorials, and then complained they had no idea what to do. :argh:

Jon was replaced with Dan Avidan from Ninja Sex Party. He's way funnier and really charming. The big critique of Game Grumps is that they'll just launch whatever game, and Arin will skip over and ignore tutorials or clues. Queue un-edited footage of eighty deaths in a row or Arin not knowing what he's supposed to be doing as they both just talk about whatever bullshit is on their mind.

Dan is a weird counter-point. He always tries to learn games, and despite not really calling himself a "gamer," he can absolutely blast through some really difficult games.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

My favorite Paige thing was when Pat was talking about how he moved the Papyrus body pillow off the bed and a bunch of McDonald's ketchup packets fell off of it and onto the floor.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Patware posted:

i feel bad but i have enjoyed like 5% of minh

the time woolie loads up 20XX and the video stops DEAD as woolie tries and fails to explain 'X-ty X' for what feels like ten minutes said it all

Not rip into him personally, but Minh sort of represents everything that drove me nuts about those kind of early Youtube LPs. Like, despite constantly talking, he rarely ever talks about the game, and his jokes are awful. When he's in control, the camera is never pointed at something interesting. He could be playing FF7 and during Aeris' death scene, the camera is pointed at a nearby ceramic pot that he says looks weird while Woolie would be like "Minh, stop looking at the pot, look at Aeris." Then he turns back and Aeris is dead and Minh's just saying "Wait, what happened? How'd she die?" Then there is him trying to play a different game than what he's actually playing. The only part of the Vanquish LP I watched was like 11 seconds where he's trying to melee jetpack troopers, and is missing instead of just shooting them.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Dias posted:

Minh has been getting better, I think he's pretty good on Dokapon. He's pretty earnest in his awkward energy so he's grown on me, but he works better when Reggie is also around so Woolie and him drive the conversation.

Yeah, I find Minh likeable. I just tend to not get far into videos where it's just him and Woolie.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Rody One Half posted:

The FF7 ghosts are very silly but what they represent rules

I'm gonna have to go Offline until I get to this part in the game before someone blurts it out like my friend did with Aeris when I was a kid.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Dias posted:

It's reached some GoT levels of all but spelled out spoilers by now.

2020, so hosed up people are managing to spoil a remake of a 23 year-old game.

Huh? I thought the idea is that the ghosts are some grand new plot thing and I just haven't gotten to a reveal yet.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

I need more than one day off a week.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

It's not a good HL2 LP if you're not kicking the boat the entire way to Ravenholm.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Pronounced "le-bwat" according to Woolie.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

I think the instruction manual called Red "lion-like" or something while a few lines in the original game called him a dog.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Zyklon B Zombie posted:

The loot system in Nioh is what made me tap out half-way through the first one and not buy the second one. Having to do inventory management every 10 minutes just broke me of any will to go on any further.

This is what really attracted me to the FF7 Remake. I just don't play RPGs anymore because it feels like I spend as much time in the menus trashing useless loot than actually playing the damned things.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Captain Invictus posted:

sterling? jim sterling? jim the anti-chud sterling. how does he have a chud fanbase?

Pretty much anyone who has an anger streak picks up that crowd. It's kind of like when a dog is barking and someone starts shouting at it to stop, but the dog keeps going because it thinks that person is agreeing with them.

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

Hey who remembers the DS2 LP? Pat still does:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38GJEXVikfs

Plan Z
May 6, 2012

I used to post on a small forum forever ago, and though it's pretty much dead these days, I go back and read it. A few years ago, I happened to just check out the "user projects" subforum, and saw one of the guys I chatted with posted that he made some games, and it turned out those games were Frog Fractions and Glittermitten Grove. It was just such a bizarre thing to see in the middle of a dead forum surrounded by pornbots.

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Plan Z
May 6, 2012

This is like the fifth time I think I've heard Pat try to explain to Liam and/or Woolie about how annoying it is to have a mission or match in your team-based game hosed up for the eightieth time by ignorant or selfish players and one of those two guys just not getting it. Granted, Pat explains it badly most of the time, but it's just really obvious that the only multiplayer Woolie plays is fighting games or non-team-based stuff whenever he just can't wrap his mind around "I am frustrated because constantly failing an instance over and over again because people don't want to learn how to play the game is a bad thing."

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