Dungeons & Dragons: 5th Edition - Its not called Dungeons & No Dragons, son

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Dungeons & Dragons: 5th Edition - Its not called Dungeons & No Dragons, son

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Yusin: Mar 4, 2021

Gray Ghost posted:

So, I�m about to DM a Witchlight campaign with 6 players; I�ve been a player in a homebrew campaign for about 3 years now and a lot of what you guys have been expressing about D&D�s issues are things I�ve been wrestling with as a Ranger player for a while now. At the same time, I recently discovered Heart: The City Beneath and fell in love with a few mechanics (story beats being a pre-requisite for character advancement, dice pools representing varying levels of skill proficiency, etc.).

I�ve been thinking about what kind low-hanging fruit there is to fix design-wise and there�s a bunch of things:

1) Altering the Encounter Day to represent 1 to 2 Hard encounters (seems like the top of everyone�s list here).
2) Abstracting Limited Use items and GP/currency a la Blades in the Dark
3) Trimming the spell list and/or designating some existing spells as spells and abilities for only certain classes and subclasses (i.e. Steel Wind Strike, etc.)
4) Creating a system for social encounters
5) Creating or re-implementing a Skill Challenge System
6) Adding stats �Martial Prowess�, �Mystical Prowess�, etc. to let the existing 6 stats breathe or perhaps simplify them
7) Separating feats and ASIs as part of character advancement

While a lot of these are probably a little more well thought out than others, what kind of fixes would you guys want to see in a new edition?

Well you won't have to worry about too much about a lot of this in Witchlight. Witchlight has no mandatory combat encounters.

# ? Jan 24, 2022 21:29

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 22:16

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

So it looks like my players won't be running A4.....because they killed the slave lords :haw:

I was generous enough to let it come down to an initiative roll rather than give the slave lords an ambush surprise round, and that was the end of them. The party beat them and went first. They sniped the wizard with a poisioned arrow and cast silence of the cleric, after that it was just a slugfest. They won because they had a few slaves with them they freed from the city and superior numbers. Ahahaha if the wizard had been able to do a single round this would have gone very differently

# ? Jan 25, 2022 13:37

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Rutibex posted:

So it looks like my players won't be running A4.....because they killed the slave lords

I was generous enough to let it come down to an initiative roll rather than give the slave lords an ambush surprise round, and that was the end of them. The party beat them and went first. They sniped the wizard with a poisioned arrow and cast silence of the cleric, after that it was just a slugfest. They won because they had a few slaves with them they freed from the city and superior numbers. Ahahaha if the wizard had been able to do a single round this would have gone very differently

yay, but also boo, because a4 is amazing.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 13:42

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

sebmojo posted:

yay, but also boo, because a4 is amazing.

Yeah I was looking forward to that. Now they have the wizards crystal ball with clairaudiance and that's gonna be highly abused I can already tell. They were immediatly spying on every NPC I introduced up until that point as soon as they found it lol

# ? Jan 25, 2022 14:49

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Had our first session of Out of the Abyss last night and hooo boy I don't think we're getting out of drow prison

We were let out of our cage by one of the seemingly sympathetic guards, the sneakiest (and weakest...) members snuck into the guard tower to get weapons, and we ended on a cliffhanger after they hosed up all of their roles to take the sentry in there out so he's probably going to alert everyone

Ront was immediately pushed into the spider webs below the cell and devoured as an example for the rest of us to stay in line within the first 5 minutes, good, gently caress that guy

# ? Jan 25, 2022 15:56

Hidingo Kojimba: Mar 29, 2010

change my name posted:

Had our first session of Out of the Abyss last night and hooo boy I don't think we're getting out of drow prison

We were let out of our cage by one of the seemingly sympathetic guards, the sneakiest (and weakest...) members snuck into the guard tower to get weapons, and we ended on a cliffhanger after they hosed up all of their roles to take the sentry in there out so he's probably going to alert everyone

Ront was immediately pushed into the spider webs below the cell and devoured as an example for the rest of us to stay in line within the first 5 minutes, good, gently caress that guy

Out of the Abyss giving the DM a random grab bag of NPCs to work with right out of the gate was genius. In my group, Ront ended up becoming the party barbarians henchman and eventually brother in law and it was one of the gnomes that got spidered.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 16:38

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Hidingo Kojimba posted:

Out of the Abyss giving the DM a random grab bag of NPCs to work with right out of the gate was genius. In my group, Ront ended up becoming the party barbarians henchman and eventually brother in law and it was one of the gnomes that got spidered.

He tried to eat Stool after complaining we weren't given enough food and we ended up in a huge brawl until the guards came in and knocked everyone out

# ? Jan 25, 2022 16:42

DressCodeBlue: Jun 15, 2006; Professional zombie impersonator.

We've been playing OotA for about a year and I can't even remember who Ront was.

Anyone who'd try to eat Stool is a monster and deserves what they get, though. :colbert:

# ? Jan 25, 2022 17:18

Pussy Quipped: Jan 29, 2009

Protect stool with your life.
I ran OotA for my longest running campaign and after they finished we just kept going with home brew stuff. Their group name is Stool & The Funky Bunch. Everyone enjoyed the adventure for the most part, but I ended up heavily modifying most of the second half and adding in some things.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 18:05

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Pussy Quipped posted:

Everyone enjoyed the adventure for the most part, but I ended up heavily modifying most of the second half and adding in some things.

This seems to be a refrain with Abyss. I got a buddy who started running it as his first campaign, and it turned into wild homebrew stuff about halfway through.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 18:24

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

Honestly the concept of balancing PC resources over a 6 to 8 encounter workday is an insane design choice.

Like, I play D&D weekly. Our session last about 3 hours, with combats lasting betweeh forty five minutes and an hour and a half depending on how large and complicated they are. That's about 1 combat per session, maybe two if there's two encounters back-to-back and we do literally nothing other than combat. That'd be us covering an in-game 24 hour period over between six to eight weeks of real-time.

That's...not how we play D&D. That's not how anyone I know plays D&D.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 18:37

Facebook Aunt: Oct 4, 2008; wiggle wiggle

Froghammer posted:

Honestly the concept of balancing PC resources over a 6 to 8 encounter workday is an insane design choice.

Like, I play D&D weekly. Our session last about 3 hours, with combats lasting betweeh forty five minutes and an hour and a half depending on how large and complicated they are. That's about 1 combat per session, maybe two if there's two encounters back-to-back and we do literally nothing other than combat. That'd be us covering an in-game 24 hour period over between six to eight weeks of real-time.

That's...not how we play D&D. That's not how anyone I know plays D&D.

It would make Fighters look pretty good though.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 18:43

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

PeterWeller posted:

This seems to be a refrain with Abyss. I got a buddy who started running it as his first campaign, and it turned into wild homebrew stuff about halfway through.

It's because the second half involves going back in and saving the underdark from a bigger threat and at that point, having escaped the drow, I can see why a party might just go "naaaah gently caress those guys, I leave and go home"

# ? Jan 25, 2022 18:46

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

Facebook Aunt posted:

It would make Fighters look pretty good though.

It would! It would also involve the story never going anywhere unless a) we were doing the D&D version of 24 where the characters' lives are all catastrophically falling apart over an insane day or b) we were exploring a mega-dungeon and doing literally nothing else

# ? Jan 25, 2022 18:58

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Froghammer posted:

Honestly the concept of balancing PC resources over a 6 to 8 encounter workday is an insane design choice.

Like, I play D&D weekly. Our session last about 3 hours, with combats lasting betweeh forty five minutes and an hour and a half depending on how large and complicated they are. That's about 1 combat per session, maybe two if there's two encounters back-to-back and we do literally nothing other than combat. That'd be us covering an in-game 24 hour period over between six to eight weeks of real-time.

That's...not how we play D&D. That's not how anyone I know plays D&D.

Back in high school in the 1990s we would start playing Friday night and just marathon straight through till they made us go to church Sunday morning

So they're probably figuring around that model

# ? Jan 25, 2022 19:01

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Also they are probably fine with people not completing an entire dungeon or whatever in one sitting.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 19:51

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

Dexo posted:

Also they are probably fine with people not completing an entire dungeon or whatever in one sitting.

That's my point though. It's not one sitting, it's seven sittings spread out over the course of two months for a single dungeon.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:03

100YrsofAttitude: Apr 29, 2013

I've been looking into getting an Aarakroca druid a melee cantrip for safety and I can't see how Shillelagh is better than Primal Savagery. I'm thinking I'll go with the latter, being unarmed is appealing for various reason and it seems like a good panic button when I can't get out of range for whatever reason. It'll be my 3rd cantrip at lvl 4 and I'm thinking that I'll end up with that or Shape Water or some other of the Element manipulation cantrips like Mold Earth (I already have Produce Flame, Thorn Whip, and Guidance from my subclass).

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:08

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Maybe it's because I use a VTT with some automation and click button stuff, but man how are combats so long for you all.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:09

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

In high school every combat tool about 4 hours because we had to look up all the rules in paper handbooks

Now every combat takes about four hours because at least half us aren't sober

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:12

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

5e monsters have too many hit points. I always give them way less, I want the combat to go quickly. Minions all have 1hp

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:15

Staltran: Jan 3, 2013; Fallen Rib

Froghammer posted:

That's my point though. It's not one sitting, it's seven sittings spread out over the course of two months for a single dungeon.

Do dungeons really take that long for your group? It's more like 3-4 sessions in my experience, for something like Sunless Citadel or Forge of Fury.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:34

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Rutibex posted:

Yeah I was looking forward to that. Now they have the wizards crystal ball with clairaudiance and that's gonna be highly abused I can already tell. They were immediatly spying on every NPC I introduced up until that point as soon as they found it lol

If the players are into it have them do a4 as a dream sequence

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:39

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

sebmojo posted:

If the players are into it have them do a4 as a dream sequence

I can't do that, I've been posting SCP foundation videos telling them these are creepy dreams sent by the forest hermit who wants to go to the moon. They are extremely hype to raid this science station full of horrors and steal the exotic loot.

When they try to use the cyrsal ball to spy on the SCP foundation they are gonna get Bobble the Clown instead :twisted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IqUtbzPB9c

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:46

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

Dexo posted:

Maybe it's because I use a VTT with some automation and click button stuff, but man how are combats so long for you all.

I don't know that I can go back to dealing with all that bullshit playing in person, VTTs are so nice

# ? Jan 25, 2022 20:46

Amp: Sep 10, 2010

Azathoth posted:

I don't know that I can go back to dealing with all that bullshit playing in person, VTTs are so nice

I just finished up a campaign on the player side where we all kind of decided independently of each other that we wanted to roll physical dice for the last big combat while sitting in Discord and even just that much made it grind to a halt because everyone started having to do math in their heads again after letting the VTT just take care of it for the last 2 years.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:01

Froghammer: Sep 8, 2012; Khajit has wares
if you have coin

Staltran posted:

Do dungeons really take that long for your group? It's more like 3-4 sessions in my experience, for something like Sunless Citadel or Forge of Fury.

They would if our DM had us have 6-8 encounters in between long rests

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:03

poor life choice: Jul 21, 2006

Staltran posted:

Do dungeons really take that long for your group? It's more like 3-4 sessions in my experience, for something like Sunless Citadel or Forge of Fury.

How long are your sessions?

e: the group of 5 PCs I�m in get 2hrs/week over Discord using Roll20 and DNDBeyond, with Beyond 20 to bridge the two. Between varying experience and tech savvy and a sprinkling of �what does that look like� and �how do you want to do this?� I think the shortest combats still push 40 mins

poor life choice fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jan 25, 2022

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:07

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

ShallNoiseUpon posted:

I just finished up a campaign on the player side where we all kind of decided independently of each other that we wanted to roll physical dice for the last big combat while sitting in Discord and even just that much made it grind to a halt because everyone started having to do math in their heads again after letting the VTT just take care of it for the last 2 years.

If I never have to answer "does X hit?" again, I would die a happy man.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:12

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

my issue with VTTs is technical glitches, which are just deathly poison, once it's all up and unning it's p fun.

i played A1 with my crew over hangouts with map screenshots and the integrated roller and it was actually quite slick, just kept editing and cropping a picture of the map in powerpoint to show the party what they could see.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:15

Amp: Sep 10, 2010

sebmojo posted:

my issue with VTTs is technical glitches, which are just deathly poison, once it's all up and unning it's p fun.

i played A1 with my crew over hangouts with map screenshots and the integrated roller and it was actually quite slick, just kept editing and cropping a picture of the map in powerpoint to show the party what they could see.

I, for one, support only the jankiest solutions for playing over the internet.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:21

Facebook Aunt: Oct 4, 2008; wiggle wiggle

It would be cool if the OP could be updated with current VTT trends. It hasn't been updated since 2018, and all it says is about VTT is:

Toshimo posted:

Many players have even shifted to using digital tabletops for play, even in person! The most popular virtual tabletops are Roll20 (https://roll20.net/) and Fantasy Grounds (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/home/home.php).

These days there are more than that, right?

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:23

Amp: Sep 10, 2010

Probably should just have a VTT thread at this point to be honest, and yeah there are a ton with various levels of automation and commitment and knowledge needed.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:24

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

ShallNoiseUpon posted:

I, for one, support only the jankiest solutions for playing over the internet.

it was so goddam janky it wrapped round to being surprisingly slick, idkwtty

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:24

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Facebook Aunt posted:

It would be cool if the OP could be updated with current VTT trends. It hasn't been updated since 2018, and all it says is about VTT is:

These days there are more than that, right?

I don't think Toshimo comes around that much anymore. If someone wants to put together an effort post, I'll edit it into the OP.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:26

change my name: Aug 27, 2007; Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Azathoth posted:

I don't know that I can go back to dealing with all that bullshit playing in person, VTTs are so nice

I did this last month right before things got bad again, we all brought our laptops and used Roll20 while I DM'ed, people could either roll virtually or use real dice. I think it worked well

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:27

lightrook: Nov 7, 2016; Pin 188

Google whiteboard, discord voice, and honor system dice rolls, for one campaign I ran. I personally appreciated the absence of unexpected friction, but in practice the gains were probably all wiped by the expected limitations. Still, not the worst medium I've played in.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:30

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

Idk I kind of like the bullshit of in person play. Even my online game is mostly discord with owl bear rodeo pulled out for special occasions.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 21:57

Azathoth: Apr 3, 2001

The thing I like particularly is that it lets combat be really streamlined, as Dexo mentioned. Same narrative punch as dice roll combat, 90% less half my friends trying and failing to do basic math.

# ? Jan 25, 2022 22:47

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 22:16

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

I like dice rolling in discord, and it's better 95% of the time. But when I cast Fireball I appreciate the tactile experiance of grabbing a fist full of dice, slamming them onto the table and making a bomb noise "KAPLOW!!"

# ? Jan 25, 2022 22:52

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