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Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz02ziF-Eec
The beautiful song "Because You Are Thailand" by Thai Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha.

thailand is a southeast asian "constitutional monarchy,"

the new king, Rama X, Maha Vajiralongkorn, is beloved by all. everyone likes him. if you post bad thing about him you get arrested. thats how you know hes good.


if you share these pictures online you will be arrested!

thailand has a long and unique modern history, being one of the few countries in asia to not be directly colonized by european pederasts (until modern tourism). instead it retained its own homegrown aristocratic pederasts, who with imperial japanese and then american aid were able to hold onto power while many of thailands neighbors fell to the horrors of communism, leaving thailand with a vastly higher gini coefficient and a king everyone really likes & who definitely does not hold nude birthday parties for his dog.

long story short, after repeated military coups and canceled elections, in one of the first real democratic elections in thai history in 2001 Thaksin Shinawatra (currently citizen of Montenegro) was elected prime minister via his party, the Thai Rak Thai Party, or Thais Love Thais Party. he was a corrupt billionaire, former cop (aka the mafia in thailand) turned telecommunications mogul, but was also the first politician in thai history to offer significant welfare programs to the poor. for this, he and his party earned the loyalty of most of the impoverished rural north, and the undying hatred of the royalist relatively wealthy thais in bangkok & the south.

turns out the thai elites didnt like that, and through their proxy, the military, overthrew him in a coup d'etat 2006, and then when his sister Yingluck Shinawatra was elected in the next election by even wider margins, did the same in 2014. during this period there were a bunch of protests, riots, and occasional terrorism by the yellow shirts (anti-thaksin, rich elitist southerns) and red shirts (pro-thaksin, generally northern rural poor) trying to get the upper hand, but eventually the military rolled tanks through and pacified everyone and everything (the yellow shirts won).

since then, thaksin has remained in gilded exile in dubai while thailand has been run by a bumbling military junta of generals lead by this dude, thaksin's former commander-in-chief:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMdnpbaWMQ

in the time since 2014 they have managed to maintain control, mostly because the former king who was actually liked by most thais (because of cia psyops in the 70s) died and that gave them the excuse to delay elections for years and years. in this period the government passed through an extremely undemocratic constitution that ultimately leaves power in the military's hands. but still, there will be elections in February, and even if the elected party has no real power, the results will be meaningful because it'll probably spur on years of red shirt/yellow shirt drama.

anyways here are the parties:


Pheu Thai Party (For Thais Party), the heirs of Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai Party (Thais Love Thais Party). Basically a populist center-left party. Legally has nothing to do with thaksin, but they are definitely run by thaksin. when they win they will be overthrown by the military in a couple of years.

polling: about 30-40%.


Prachathipat (The Democrat Party), basically the party of the thai old aristocracy & bourgeoisie. a "center right" party that mainly exists to maintain the status quo for the wealthy elite. happily cooperated with previous military juntas, and the current party leader was previously installed as Prime Minister by the military after the 2006 coup. the equivalent of the American Democratic Party.

polling: about 20%


Phalang Pracharat Party (People's State Power Party) is a pro-military and pro-prayuth chanocha party. a right wing vehicle for chanocha to continue his bumbling dictatorship. if the elections arent rigged for them, going to get owned probably.

current polling: ranges from 20% to 5% in the latest poll lmao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJVQO_DOMd4
Phak Anakhot Mai (New Future Party), a new party created by another billionaire, Thanathorn Juangroongruangkit, who inherited thailands largest auto-parts manufacturer. also hes hot and suave. his party is basically a progressive left movement, and has successfully surged from nothing to one of the main players. its main planks are reducing inequality and reducing the military's power. if they were to actually win they would be immediately owned by a coup.

polling: between 15-25%

anyways apologies if this is illegible for some reason i decided to write it up after getting drunk with the familiy on christmas. the election is on february 24th.

Sheng-Ji Yang has issued a correction as of 08:11 on Dec 26, 2018

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Fuligin
Oct 27, 2010

wait what the fuck??

does the military have a formally enshrined position within the new constitution? or are they more of a turkey-esque sword of damocles

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant
Welcome to Thailand!

It has been [ 5 ] days since our last coup

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Fuligin posted:

does the military have a formally enshrined position within the new constitution? or are they more of a turkey-esque sword of damocles

the military appoints the entire upper house senate, the constitutional court (which has always been reactionary and was used heavily against thaksin and his sister) has been given even more powers, and the king can issue royal edicts without approval of the elected government.

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
Ty for explaining the coups

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
i'm voting for the "look out for numero uno party"

cool dance moves
Aug 27, 2018


lese majeb!!ste

finally people will please clap

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:



Prachathipat (The Democrat Party), basically the party of the thai old aristocracy & bourgeoisie. a "center right" party that mainly exists to maintain the status quo for the wealthy elite. happily cooperated with previous military juntas, and the current party leader was previously installed as Prime Minister by the military after the 2006 coup. the equivalent of the American Democratic Party.


which is also, in fact, called the DEMOCRAT party

Taintrunner
Apr 10, 2017

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Ramrod Hotshot posted:

which is also, in fact, called the DEMOCRAT party

Thai Bernie when

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
SE Asia is such a loving clusterfuck. Is there a country there that isn't currently terrible? Vietnam maybe?

Agean90
Jun 28, 2008


Taintrunner posted:

Thai Bernie when

Already got elected, the military did a coup

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Xelkelvos posted:

SE Asia is such a loving clusterfuck. Is there a country there that isn't currently terrible? Vietnam maybe?

malaysia just had elections that threw out the party that had been in power since independence. it only took the leaders directly stealing hundreds of billions of dollars straight into their bank accounts, and running a 92 year old former prime minister from the same party against them. and joko will probably be reelected in indonesia, and hes ok.

but yeah otherwise se asia is either one party communist-turned-neoliberal states (vietnam, laos) or corrupt unstable autocracies (cambodia, thailand, myanmar which is still basically run by the military)

Mr.Pibbleton
Feb 3, 2006

Aleuts rock, chummer.

I'm rooting for the Pheu Thai Party, I hope they do some good before the military overthrows them. :unsmith:

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

is yingluck PTP's PM candidate again?

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Badger of Basra posted:

is yingluck PTP's PM candidate again?

no, she fled thailand last year after she was sentenced to five years in prison. she lives in the UK iirc.

the current ptp leader is Sudarat Keyuraphan, she started thai rak thai with thaksin and was in his cabinet. she will most likely be the next prime minister.

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007

what's stopping the military from just doing another coup if they don't like the results? nothing?

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

get that OUT of my face posted:

what's stopping the military from just doing another coup if they don't like the results? nothing?

the benevolence and mercy of His Majesty Rama X

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


get that OUT of my face posted:

what's stopping the military from just doing another coup if they don't like the results? nothing?

they have complete control over the senate so they dont need to bother. and if pheu thai gets uppity theyll just have the constitutional court disband the party again.

that said all this seems to be inviting red shirt protests. i think theyre trying to neuter the inevitability by giving them token representation but i suspect itll backfire and youll see mass protests in bangkok within a year if the military really vetoes everything

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


GreyjoyBastard posted:

the benevolence and mercy of His Majesty Rama X

one of the funny things was that thaksin was feared to be close to vajiralongkorn (because thaksin paid him vast sums of money) and one of the suspected reasons for the coup in 2014 was to instead crown his much more popular sisters to prevent a pro-thaksin king. it appears vajiralongkorn instead made a deal with prayuth to become king as long as he avoided messing with the junta.

https://www.amazon.com/Kingdom-Crisis-Asian-Arguments-ebook/dp/B00O8XURFI/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1546117912&sr=1-2

a pretty good book about all the game of thrones poo poo, if outdated now because it was written before bhumibol's death.

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


in other news the government is hinting at delaying the elections for another month lmao

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/1602694/feb-24-not-carved-in-stone

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

malaysia just had elections that threw out the party that had been in power since independence. it only took the leaders directly stealing hundreds of billions of dollars straight into their bank accounts, and running a 92 year old former prime minister from the same party against them. and joko will probably be reelected in indonesia, and hes ok.

but yeah otherwise se asia is either one party communist-turned-neoliberal states (vietnam, laos) or corrupt unstable autocracies (cambodia, thailand, myanmar which is still basically run by the military)

Out of curiosity know anything about recent Malaysian events? I got James Scott's weapons of the weak about Malaysian peasants in the late 70s early 80s and I dont know anything about the region other than a bit about the insurgency in the 50s

Darkman Fanpage
Jul 4, 2012
thread reported for insulting the king

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
do u know anything about the owner of Leicester city fc who died in a helicopter crash in England? Any political involvements, could someone have been out to get him?

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


mila kunis posted:

do u know anything about the owner of Leicester city fc who died in a helicopter crash in England? Any political involvements, could someone have been out to get him?

vichai was a royalist (his company is King Power lol) who got his money by sucking up to thaksin and the monarchy until they gave him a monopoly over the bkk airport duty free businesses

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/v-vichai-how-leicester-citys-thai-owner-became-billionaire-blessing-prayer-1554828

quote:

Prior to founding King Power, Vichai was largely unknown in the realm of business and politics: "No one had heard of Vichai until he founded King Power. He was a middle manager, probably earning 40,000 baht ($1,128) a month," says a commercial investigator in Bangkok, who declined to be named because of Thailand's strict libel laws.

That would change with the election of Thai telecoms tycoon and former Manchester City owner Thaksin Shinawatra in 2001 and his pet project, the construction of Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport, which opened in 2006. Due to his connections with Thai elites, including allies of Thaksin, Vichai was awarded exclusive rights to sell duty free at the new airport: "[It was] basically a licence to print money," adds MacGregor Marshall.

"Although he was wealthy by the early 2000s, Vichai didn't join the ranks of the super-rich until... he was granted the concession for all the retail space at Suvarnabhumi Airport," the corporate investigator in Bangkok says.

It wasn't just elites where Vichai sought out powerful connections, but in the royal family, says the investigator. Vichai began donating to charities supported by the Thai royals in the 1990s and continued to do so well into the 2000s. In 2006, MacGregor Marshall recalls, Vichai had millions of yellow armbands saying: 'We Love HM the King' printed to mark the 60th anniversary of King Bhumibol's reign.

His connections allowed King Power and its chairman to weather the turmoil of 2006-2008 in Thailand, which began with an increasingly embattled Thaksin being ousted in a military coup, a pro-Thaksin party elected in 2007 and then the rise of the anti-Thaksin Yellow Shirt movement in 2008, which brought thousands of Thais to the streets over weeks and months and at one point saw protesters occupy Suvarnabhumi Airport. Vichai survived by keeping both the pro- and anti-Thaksin elites onside and, by 2010, he was a billionaire and one of Thailand's most prominent business figures.

Back in Thailand, Leicester's success has been a huge boon for Vichai's prestige. His weathering of the political crises of 2006 to 2008 removed the major obstacle to his business success and his monopoly over lucrative duty-free sales in Thailand means there is little chance of him becoming anything but a great deal richer. If Leicester win the Premier League, the windfall in TV rights alone is worth £90.9m ($128m) and even a modest run in the Champions League would net between £10m and £30m.

"Vichai is wealthy enough to afford the expense and owning an English football team gives him huge prestige in Thailand, where English football is avidly followed... By positioning himself as an international brand ambassador for Thailand, via the success of Leicester City, he is helping make himself politically bulletproof, whatever happens in Thai politics," MacGregor Marshall says.

The Bangkok-based commercial investigator, who has spent years watching Vichai and King Power's rise, believes it is his lack of political aspiration that has ensured his prolonged success in the tinder-box that is contemporary Thai politics. Unlike Thaksin Shinawatra, whose continuing efforts to make a political comeback have resulted in his effective exile, Vichai is a businessman, first and last.

after thaksin got thrown out he aligned more with the yellow shirts though, but im kinda doubtful thaksin would have him killed, or would be able to.

StashAugustine posted:

Out of curiosity know anything about recent Malaysian events? I got James Scott's weapons of the weak about Malaysian peasants in the late 70s early 80s and I dont know anything about the region other than a bit about the insurgency in the 50s

i dont know a ton about malaysian politics other than the basics tbh. Barisan under najib razak became just hilariously, hilariously corrupt, najib directly stole billions from 1MBD, a state owned company, with the help of Goldman Sachs sold off vast portions of it to mostly chinese companies and pocketed the cash himself. i guess he thought after 60 years Barisan was untouchable. he was wrong lol

get that OUT of my face
Feb 10, 2007

sometimes a freak private helicopter accident is just a freak private helicopter accident. lmao that a rich vain rear end in a top hat died waving his wealth around. almost makes one of the most unlikely moments in sports worth it. well, not "almost"

Taintrunner
Apr 10, 2017

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
YouTube keeps giving me recommendations for videos of pattaya nightlife

what are the candidates proposing to do about all the dastardly sexpats stinking up the place

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN
Jun 26, 2009




The gently caress

svenkatesh
Sep 5, 2016

by FactsAreUseless
I hope that whoever comes into power takes a strong position against the Islamist terrorists who are running rampant through southern Thailand.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



this just in: the latest election poll results are a thai

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Taintrunner posted:

YouTube keeps giving me recommendations for videos of pattaya nightlife

what are the candidates proposing to do about all the dastardly sexpats stinking up the place

there is straight up no reason to go to pattaya unless you are a disgusting sexpat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpr3W-x9TUU

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

Thailand is a loving joke and their king is a up looking clown pervert.
Arrest me cowards

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


but yeah the thai government mostly just ignores the sex trade, or openly profits from it.

one third party is run by Chuwit Kamolvisit, another rich guy who made his money creating upscale "massage parlors" catering to the thai upper middle class in nice malls. hes mostly just an anti-corruption populist type, whose famous for election posters of him looking mad. hes kinda like a proto-duterte







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-3q_rznyLw

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

It's too bad discussing the Thai royal family is a crime because geez louise the tabloids just write themselves!

sleeptalker
Feb 17, 2011

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

but yeah the thai government mostly just ignores the sex trade, or openly profits from it.

one third party is run by Chuwit Kamolvisit, another rich guy who made his money creating upscale "massage parlors" catering to the thai upper middle class in nice malls. hes mostly just an anti-corruption populist type, whose famous for election posters of him looking mad. hes kinda like a proto-duterte







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-3q_rznyLw

That guy's definitely gonna win sooner or later, right?

Jose
Jul 24, 2007

Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer
How do people like the new king within the law

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Jose posted:

How do people like the new king within the law

lol

http://www.zenjournalist.org/2013/11/01/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%84-thailands-era-of-insanity-2/

quote:

Once upon a time, Thailand’s royal family seemed happy. Glorified by the military dictators who ruled the country from the late 1950s until 1973, boosted by an American-funded propaganda campaign as anti-communist figureheads, and fêted abroad as a fairytale royal couple, Bhumibol and Sirikit were widely revered in Thailand. But behind the walls of Chitralada Palace, tensions were building over their troublesome son Vajiralongkorn. Taciturn, lazy and prone to violent rages, he seemed ill-suited to be a future King Rama X. Bhumibol’s relationship with his son seems to have been dysfunctional from the start and only worsened as the prince got older. But Sirikit doted on her boy. Disagreements between the king and queen, mostly over Vajiralongkorn, began to rip the royal family apart.

In 1972, when Vajiralongkorn was 20 years old, Bhumibol performed a ceremony elevating his status to crown prince, designated heir to the Chakri throne. But Vajiralongkorn was already remarkably unpopular among Thais, who mocked and scorned him in private conversations. Far more popular was his younger sister Sirindhorn, an unpretentious and apparently amiable girl who many Thais came to adore. The family tensions over royal succession were exacerbated by a mounting sense of paranoia during the mid-1970s over the threat from communism, culminating in the appalling massacre of students at Thammasat University on October 6, 1976, by extreme-right elements in Thailand that had long been fostered and encouraged by the palace. The pretext for the savagery was a mock-hanging staged by students two days earlier — rightists alleged it was intended to depict the execution of Vajiralongkorn, a claim those involved in the play have always denied. Whatever the truth, it was exploited by the far-right to unleash an orgy of murder and rape that shocked the world, tore Thai society asunder and destroyed the monarchy’s carefully crafted image as a unifying institution above partisan politics.

...

One of the most striking aspects of hyper-royalism is not only that Vajiralongkorn was left out of the elite’s veneration of Bhumibol and Sirikit, but that the crown prince’s unpopularity was actually exploited by the Thai establishment in order to feed the personality cult of Rama IX. From the 1970s onwards, there was an overwhelming preference among Thais at all levels of society for Sirindhorn to be their next monarch, and far from trying to crush this sentiment as heretical, the elite encouraged it. Bhumibol himself appeared to agree, and in 1977, the king elevated Sirindhorn to the status of potential heir to the throne too. Official sources usually explain this move by characterizing it as a precaution in case anything happened to Vajiralongkorn, and claim it did not cast the prince’s status as heir into doubt. But in fact, the elevation of Sirindhorn to crown princess generated significant ambiguity that remains to this day. It was interpreted by many Thais as a signal that the king was aware of their concerns and would take them into account.

Most of Thailand’s elite are royalist only to the extent that it serves their purposes and preserves a political status quo in which they are atop the hierarchical pyramid. Bhumibol was an ideal monarch for them — beloved by most ordinary Thais, seemingly immensely virtuous and saintly, but weak and pliable. By glorifying Rama IX, the Thai elite was sanctifying a social order in which they were firmly in charge.

Vajiralongkorn was another story. Deeply unpopular and totally unable to fit the image of a virtuous dhammaraja Buddhist monarch, he appalled most of the elite, who believed that if he ever became king it would spell the end of the monarchy — and by extension, the end of their hegemony in Thailand.

During the 1970s and 1980s, the elite’s hatred of Vajiralongkorn was further fuelled by his habit of preying on their daughters. In a throwback to the days of Old Siam in which kings and princes had scores of wives and concubines, Vajiralongkorn became notorious for summoning attractive high-born young women to his palace. The extent to which it happened remains unclear, but it was a source of profound anger and anxiety among the Thai elite, many of whom sent their daughters overseas to be educated specifically to escape the prince’s attentions.

The flipside of the widespread loathing for the prince was exaggerated reverence for Bhumibol, and intense fear about what would befall Thailand when he died. For the elite, this terror was largely due to their sense of self-preservation, but in wider Thai society it chimed with widely held traditional beliefs that an immoral king would cause the decline and fall of the nation, and that the world was on the verge of a dark age, or กลียุค. An alleged prophecy dating from the beginning of the Chakri era, which suggested that the monarchy would collapse after the ninth reign, also fed the anti-Vajiralongkorn hysteria.

Instead of preparing the ground for an orderly succession, the elite used popular hatred of Vajiralongkorn to foster desperate hopes among ordinary Thais that Bhumibol would reign for as long as possible. The prince himself was not unaware of what was happening — asked by Dichan magazine in 1987 about his black-sheep status, he acidly replied:

Sometimes black sheep serve a purpose, one of helping others. Black sheep help those not-too-white ones seem whiter.

...

Then in May 1996, as Thailand prepared for Bhumibol’s golden jubilee celebrations, the crown prince caused a scandal that transfixed the nation — and foreign media — by publicly banishing his second wife Yuvathida from his palace and from Thailand, ostensibly because of an affair with the prince’s aide-de-camp. Besides the terrible publicity it attracted, Vajiralongkorn’s melodramatic break-up with Mom Benz dealt a severe blow to his succession prospects, because he also disowned and expelled from Thailand the four sons she had borne him. The crown prince was left with no legitimate male heir.

...

This was truly sensational, incendiary material. The Revolutionary King was not simply a hagiography of Bhumibol, it was an explicit attack on Vajiralongkorn. The book was never formally banned in Thailand (partly because the king himself had commissioned it) but booksellers generally decided not to stock it. The royalist establishment, privately delighted about the book and its trashing of the crown prince, although unhappy that it referred to the king by his nickname “Lek”, never sought to repudiate Stevenson’s assertions. Many thousands of copies were bought overseas and brought into Thailand, and the Bangkok middle class loved the book. Its depiction of a saintly pro-democracy Bhumibol valiantly trying to prevent the corrupt militaristic Vajiralongkorn dragging the country to its ruin resonated with their own prejudices and assumptions. Anyone reading the book — and taking it at face value — could only conclude that Bhumibol was aware his people hated the prince, and would somehow save the day ahead of the succession.

By the start of the 21st century, the Thai elite had another reason to believe that Vajiralongkorn would never be king. They became aware that the crown prince had contracted HIV, and was also suffering from a rare acute form of leukaemia. Perhaps he would die before his father, or so they hoped. Despised, ill and without any legitimate male heirs, Vajiralongkorn appeared to have ruined his chances of ever reigning as Rama X.

...

Remarkably, their kamikaze tactics had some success. Vajiralongkorn appears to have realized that his HIV could be used against him to prevent him becoming king. The reason had nothing to do with health or longevity — the crown prince has not developed full-blown AIDS, and HIV can now be managed effectively using anti-retroviral drugs for those with the means to afford them. But the theology of Thai kingship derives from two intertwined religious ideologies, Buddhist and Hindu. In the Buddhist tradition the king is a dhammaraja whose legitimacy derives from his great spiritual merit. On these terms, Vajiralongkorn’s claim to the throne was exceptionally weak. In the Hindu tradition, the legitimacy of a devaraja king derives directly from the purity of his bloodline. Previously, Vajiralongkorn’s dynastic claim was impeccable — he was a celestial prince, the only son of the king and queen. The fact his blood was diseased — with leukaemia, and more importanly with HIV due to the moral stigma that tends to be attached to it — made him vulnerable.

sleeptalker posted:

That guy's definitely gonna win sooner or later, right?

unfortunately i think his party has mostly disappeared and hes now mostly just a media personality, unfortunately. he was arrested for a bit recently for tax dodging. but who knows hell probably be back

Smirking_Serpent
Aug 27, 2009

How is The King Never Smiles? It looks cool

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Smirking_Serpent posted:

How is The King Never Smiles? It looks cool

absolutely the best bio of bhumibol. dont bring it with you into thailand lol

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011
does Thailand have a formal aristocracy outside of the royals?

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mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

lol

http://www.zenjournalist.org/2013/11/01/%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%84-thailands-era-of-insanity-2/



unfortunately i think his party has mostly disappeared and hes now mostly just a media personality, unfortunately. he was arrested for a bit recently for tax dodging. but who knows hell probably be back

this guy's blog is really good and led me to the US wiki cable leaks back when thaksin was in power

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/05BANGKOK2219_a.html

the cable leaks really are a good rear end treasure trove of stuff

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