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Cynic Jester
Apr 11, 2009

Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

Synastren posted:

Are you looking for player recordings, or are you looking for recordings of broadcast matches?

This does remind me that I should probably include sc2casts in the OP. Use that if you're looking for tournament broadcasts that are now on youtube.

Either/or. Just not looking unedited streams.

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Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

https://www.pcgamer.com/amp/blizzard-will-show-off-googles-deepmind-ai-in-starcraft-2-later-this-week/

In a couple hours, Deepmind, the Google-owned AI company that developed the neural network that crushed Lee Sedol at go, will unveil their progress at developing a neural network that plays Starcraft 2.

Details are light. Humans have remained dominant over computers in Starcraft so far, and most people seem to be expecting that they won’t yet have an AI that can take on top human players, but Deepmind has stunned the world in the past with their rapid progress. I’m very interested to see how far along they are.

Pengwin
Apr 3, 2007

MIND MIND MIND


holy poo poo they're playing games against progamers :stare:

Pengwin
Apr 3, 2007

MIND MIND MIND


TLO is the Fan Hui of StarCraft

Over/under 6 months before they challenge Serral/Maru?

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

Pengwin posted:

holy poo poo they're playing games against progamers :stare:

Of course it plays protoss.

It's live on https://www.twitch.tv/starcraft

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
Terran version is stuck at plat 2 of course

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
This reminds me a lot of Has tbh

super fart shooter
Feb 11, 2003

-quacka fat-
Is it only trained for PvP? Kinda weird that they didn't get an actual pro protoss player

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat
It's somewhat impressive that it's beaten a pro player but offrace is a pretty large handicap even for a pro.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

super fart shooter posted:

Is it only trained for PvP? Kinda weird that they didn't get an actual pro protoss player

Oh poo poo they got mana, this is perfect

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat
Wow, that was nuts! Hope they get an even better pro!?

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

Pengwin posted:

TLO is the Fan Hui of StarCraft

Over/under 6 months before they challenge Serral/Maru?

Under.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat
Holy crap, this is amazing! I can't wait to see the offrace pro matches!

Pengwin
Apr 3, 2007

MIND MIND MIND



Yeah I didn't expect them to be playing Mana and dominating. :stare:

This agent in G3 seems to be the most advanced so far. Walling off, respecting ramps and forcefields. Haven't seen any little, clear mistakes that every other agent has made.

Also, they haven't yet said who will play the live match(es). I'm guessing it's another unrevealed player, possibly a KR toss?

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
This is really cool, although it sounds like each agent is a bit of a one-trick pony: only one matchup supported (out of a possible 9), only one map, and it sounds like one preferred strategy. Particularly for that last bit, I'd be interested in seeing bo5 or bo7 games against the same agent to see if it can adapt to humans adapting to what it likes.

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

It’s fairly impressive, but I think they should cap the max APM. It’s spiking up to over 700 in these fights, and a human can’t actually make accurate moves at that rate.

Still, it’s clearly learning very fast and does some interesting things.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat
Seems like the problem is that the agents are really good at battles because they have perfect micro but they're bad at assaulting a defensive position? I feel like if Mana hadn't put so many stasis traps, there wouldn't have been an observer and the DTs could have done more damage.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003
SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>
The conventional wisdom about assaulting defensive positions assumes you don't have inhumanly good micro

super fart shooter
Feb 11, 2003

-quacka fat-
Yeah, it's not surprising that stalkers are pretty OP when you can just micro like that

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat

Herstory Begins Now posted:

The conventional wisdom about assaulting defensive positions assumes you don't have inhumanly good micro

Yes, but even with inhumanly good micro on Alphastar's part, Mana was holding on very well for the defensive part of the match. Felt like he only lost when he tried to move out.

Double Bill
Jan 29, 2006

Looks like it got confused in the live match, just doing weird poo poo that makes no sense.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat
Alphastar bad at harass lol

Double Bill
Jan 29, 2006

Yeah not so advanced there, bringing the whole army back to deal with 2 harassing units is a very traditional AI thing to do.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Furious Lobster posted:

Alphastar bad at harass lol
It's good at harass but bad at defending harass looks like

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat

Cicero posted:

It's good at harass but bad at defending harass looks like

Terrible at defending harass - it took like 5 trips of the warp prism to get it to finally realize there was an observer camping on top of it.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
Yeah and just in general I agree with the commentators, can't remember if it was Rotti or Artosis who said it, but AlphaStar looks considerably stronger on attack than defense in general. It looks somewhat trickable.

Yoshi Wins
Jul 14, 2013

I had to get back to work before the live portion. Who is the opponent?

Pengwin
Apr 3, 2007

MIND MIND MIND


Yoshi Wins posted:

I had to get back to work before the live portion. Who is the opponent?

Mana again

Synastren
Nov 8, 2005

Bad at Starcraft 2.
Better at psychology.
Psychology Megathread




https://clips.twitch.tv/UninterestedDirtyLousePeanutButterJellyTime

some nostalgia for the old zeezers

thanks err

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


Is there a place to watch this? Sounds pretty cool.

Furious Lobster
Jun 17, 2006

Soiled Meat

Doctor Reynolds posted:

Is there a place to watch this? Sounds pretty cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
If you wanna jump straight to the games:

First pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs&t=2660s

Second pro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs&t=5558s

Live exhibition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTMhmVh1qs&t=9067s

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


Thank you! Very helpful.

Incoherence
May 22, 2004

POYO AND TEAR

Cicero posted:

Yeah and just in general I agree with the commentators, can't remember if it was Rotti or Artosis who said it, but AlphaStar looks considerably stronger on attack than defense in general. It looks somewhat trickable.
One problem of self-taught AI is that it has to come up with strategies itself so that it can come up with solutions. I kinda wonder if Mana's immortal drop was one of those situations: it hadn't seen someone do that often enough for the counter to become part of its decision tree.

This happened with OpenAI for Dota 2, too: the 1v1 AI was vulnerable to a particular cheese strat (creepcutting), and they lost both of their 5v5 showmatches at TI8 more or less because the agent never developed any notion of farm priority.

VelociBacon
Dec 8, 2009

I really wanted to see the AI cannon rush. Or see well it defends against one.

golden bubble
Jun 3, 2011

yospos

The developers did a great job at limiting raw APM, but they need to limit useful APM. While human pros have more clicks than the AI, the AI still has a massive micro advantage, because human clicks are often wasted or imprecise.


Sankara
Jul 18, 2008


I think it'd be cool to see a no limits AI in action!

Virtue
Jan 7, 2009

golden bubble posted:

The developers did a great job at limiting raw APM, but they need to limit useful APM. While human pros have more clicks than the AI, the AI still has a massive micro advantage, because human clicks are often wasted or imprecise.




Someone throw Serral on that graphic

Incoherence
May 22, 2004

POYO AND TEAR

golden bubble posted:

The developers did a great job at limiting raw APM, but they need to limit useful APM. While human pros have more clicks than the AI, the AI still has a massive micro advantage, because human clicks are often wasted or imprecise.



Yeah, I feel like "average APM" is the wrong metric: an AI doesn't have to keep its hands warm, so to speak.

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Mata
Dec 23, 2003
Until the deepmind team can accurately implement wrist pain, depression and disapproving parents, this alphastar farce proves nothing.

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