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Do u love shield hero
Yeah I hate women
I think I may
I doubt it
It's poo poo from an rear end mate
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LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

College Slice

pentyne posted:

Broke brain people regardless of gender love to emphasize with a downtrodden underdog who gets revenge and justs horrifically shits all over his enemies.

"What about him sentencing his accuser to getting raped to death?"

"...its a fantasy story don't take it seriously geez" everyone who can't understand why toxic incel redpill depictions in media are actually harmful.

What show was that...sounds gross.

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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




doomrider7 posted:

I see this being brought up in defense of this show and others with questionable content of this nature whether it be slavery or sexual violence. I can neve get that defense since a lot of those shows are just so loving nakedly obvious and upfront about it. Take One Piece for instance, it depicts slavery as the ABSOLUTE DEFINITIVE EVIL with there being no instance of it being EVER ok or acceptable to be involved in it and all the people that are involved in the slave trade are depicted as being morally bankrupt and monstrously awful and evil. Shield Hero just doubles down on its slavery thing by giving Naofumi a loving village of slaves and frames this as ok because he "treats them nice" and only uses the crests to discipline them.

No, I'm saying that Shield Hero endorses its protagonists' misogynistic bullshit, whereas Naruto's entire plot is about 'war sucks, can we not do it, please?'. 'Other shows have freaky poo poo in them too' is not a defence if those shows treat the freaky poo poo as a bad thing that shouldn't happen, whereas yours revels in being utterly gross.

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

College Slice

Darth Walrus posted:

No, I'm saying that Shield Hero endorses its protagonists' misogynistic bullshit, whereas Naruto's entire plot is about 'war sucks, can we not do it, please?'. 'Other shows have freaky poo poo in them too' is not a defence if those shows treat the freaky poo poo as a bad thing that shouldn't happen, whereas yours revels in being utterly gross.

Not really, the MC was pretty much reviled (right or wrong) from the first episode. I watch some garbage for sure, but this was so tame (in plot and depiction) it leads me wondering if there is a different edit out there or something. It was like a slightly conveluted "hero journey" almost by the numbers.

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

Wiggle to the right
Wiggle to the left
Wiggle to the post that's best


its the normies who are brokebrain incels remains an incredibly funny argument

doomrider7
Nov 29, 2018

Smoking Chicken of the Sea

Darth Walrus posted:

No, I'm saying that Shield Hero endorses its protagonists' misogynistic bullshit, whereas Naruto's entire plot is about 'war sucks, can we not do it, please?'. 'Other shows have freaky poo poo in them too' is not a defence if those shows treat the freaky poo poo as a bad thing that shouldn't happen, whereas yours revels in being utterly gross.

No I was actually agreeing with you and that I don't get people's defense of it since it pretty drat obvious. My One Piece example is similar in respect to the Naruto one in that it depicts something questionable(slavery to Naruto's war), but makes it clear that there's no context that it's ever ok. And I agree that the, "but that has freaky poo poo in it too" defense is bullshit and needs to stop.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




LorneReams posted:

Not really, the MC was pretty much reviled (right or wrong) from the first episode. I watch some garbage for sure, but this was so tame (in plot and depiction) it leads me wondering if there is a different edit out there or something. It was like a slightly conveluted "hero journey" almost by the numbers.

So you don't understand the difference between a work's perspective and the perspective of the characters within that work, then? Naruto having a character who's a frothing 'hahaha war is extremely good' psycho doesn't make it a pro-war work.

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

College Slice

Darth Walrus posted:

So you don't understand the difference between a work's perspective and the perspective of the characters within that work, then? Naruto having a character who's a frothing 'hahaha war is extremely good' psycho doesn't make it a pro-war work.

I don't try to dig that deep into it, otherwise, I wouldn't like Pokemon.

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013



Davincie posted:

its the normies who are brokebrain incels remains an incredibly funny argument

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009



LorneReams posted:

Not really, the MC was pretty much reviled (right or wrong) from the first episode. I watch some garbage for sure, but this was so tame (in plot and depiction) it leads me wondering if there is a different edit out there or something. It was like a slightly conveluted "hero journey" almost by the numbers.

Most people mention the webnovel's events.
The anime is almost milquetoast except when Malty shows up.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I posted a 7 point defense of corporate wage theft because my brain is full of worms.

Lurking Haro posted:

Most people mention the webnovel's events.
The anime is almost milquetoast except when Malty shows up.

But all his slaves are still "grateful" he's their master and refuse any opportunity for freedom? Any depiction of a noble slaver is gross and something that permeated the culture in the US for over a century before the stranglehold southern born historians had over the popular narrative was broken by a new generation of scholars. Any attempts to revisit that concept should result in a brick to the face.

I assumed it was a similar thing to JSDF Gate where each subsequent adapation had to seriously tone down the fascist pro Nippon nationalism but even by the anime it was "glorious Japanese soldiers heroically defeat savage barbarians and feeble liberals at home attempt to sabotage them and paint them as blood thirsty baby killers for no reason and get viciously dunked on during a live broadcast"

Turns out the author was a die hard nationalist who loved the fantasy of JSDF murdering the poo poo out of thousands of bronze age soldiers.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

LorneReams posted:

I don't try to dig that deep into it, otherwise, I wouldn't like Pokemon.

Every edgy 13 year old and famous Youtuber trots out Pokemon to laugh and go "Haha, cockfighting!" and it always just shows an unwillingness to meet the source material even halfway. They sub in chickens and dogs for Torchics and Yampers but don't bring up that these Pokemon have intelligence comparable to or exceeding a human's. The games never imply Pokemon are being forced to fight, and when a whole game's story revolved around asking "Is catching Pokemon ethical?" they went out of there way to highlight that the Pokemon have a choice as well.

Shield Hero explicitly calls them slaves and says they're being forced to serve him. You don't have to dig that deep, a well placed fart would uncover it.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



That is true, but once you get past that aspect outside of the first episode it's just a generic isekai with pretty good animation. It's not super surprising that it's popular.

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009



pentyne posted:

But all his slaves are still "grateful" he's their master and refuse any opportunity for freedom? Any depiction of a noble slaver is gross and something that permeated the culture in the US for over a century before the stranglehold southern born historians had over the popular narrative was broken by a new generation of scholars. Any attempts to revisit that concept should result in a brick to the face.

I assumed it was a similar thing to JSDF Gate where each subsequent adapation had to seriously tone down the fascist pro Nippon nationalism but even by the anime it was "glorious Japanese soldiers heroically defeat savage barbarians and feeble liberals at home attempt to sabotage them and paint them as blood thirsty baby killers for no reason and get viciously dunked on during a live broadcast"

Turns out the author was a die hard nationalist who loved the fantasy of JSDF murdering the poo poo out of thousands of bronze age soldiers.

The first season ends with him becoming the ruler of Raphtalia's village and buying people back from the slaver, who rubs his hand and looks forward for more business.

He does have trust issues, which is why he never removed the crest on Raphtalia (and she put it back on when she had it removed ) and Filo got a monster version when she went on rampages in the beginning.

TheHan
Oct 29, 2011

Grind, you poor fool!
Grind straight for the stars!

Irony Be My Shield posted:

That is true, but once you get past that aspect outside of the first episode it's just a generic isekai with pretty good animation. It's not super surprising that it's popular.

Yeah that's where I think a discussion about adaption scrubbing off all the grime from its source material would be really interesting. Crunchyroll obviously, desperately, wants it to be their star and your star can't spend the whole series fantasizing about taking it to those loving Stacies. It's not like this is the first anime to play the happy slaves card (That being Aladdin (1992)), but I think it's the first to originally come from a place of outright hatred for women.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I posted a 7 point defense of corporate wage theft because my brain is full of worms.

Lurking Haro posted:

The first season ends with him becoming the ruler of Raphtalia's village and buying people back from the slaver, who rubs his hand and looks forward for more business.

He does have trust issues, which is why he never removed the crest on Raphtalia (and she put it back on when she had it removed ) and Filo got a monster version when she went on rampages in the beginning.

What is your point?

Slavery is abhorrent but the presentation of the MC as a noble slaver only helping people out but keeping their slave crests/chains on because he has trust issues is okay?

The idea that anyone is a "good" slave owner is a complete hypocrisy and these stories are constructed such that it tries to make the MC owning slaves the best possible outcome for everyone, except for you know, freeing them and giving them choices.

doomrider7
Nov 29, 2018

Smoking Chicken of the Sea

pentyne posted:

What is your point?

Slavery is abhorrent but the presentation of the MC as a noble slaver only helping people out but keeping their slave crests/chains on because he has trust issues is okay?

The idea that anyone is a "good" slave owner is a complete hypocrisy and these stories are constructed such that it tries to make the MC owning slaves the best possible outcome for everyone, except for you know, freeing them and giving them choices.

But that's like how it was back then, same for the queen pushing her preteen daughter to marry Shield Hero and your disagreements are only like, your opinion man and it says more about you and how you perceive things than the work itself./s (Yes I've seen this defense trotted out a LOT)

Lurking Haro
Oct 27, 2009



pentyne posted:

What is your point?

Slavery is abhorrent but the presentation of the MC as a noble slaver only helping people out but keeping their slave crests/chains on because he has trust issues is okay?

The idea that anyone is a "good" slave owner is a complete hypocrisy and these stories are constructed such that it tries to make the MC owning slaves the best possible outcome for everyone, except for you know, freeing them and giving them choices.

The bird girl hates the crest and raccoon girl got another one by herself because she thinks she has something to prove.
One of the main plots is that everybody hates or doesn't care for beastmen, who make up basically all the slaves.
People look down on slave ownership, but don't do anything about the status quo. It's paper-thin and not well-written, that's why people probably think it's pro-slavery.
The development of the protagonist is supposed to be him trusting people again. Him removing the crests would be a big development.

It could all go the opposite way, but that's the state at the end of the first season.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


"It's okay to keep slaves until you can resolve your trust issues" is also a pretty horrible message. The audience is presumably expected to empathize with him and see his actions as understandable.

Also in the context of isekai stories generally, it's pretty obvious that this stuff is just meant to feed into a slave fetish and the reading that "overcoming the need for slavery" will be the arc of the story is far too charitable to the work.

Cipher Pol 9
Oct 9, 2006




Lurking Haro posted:

The first season ends with him becoming the ruler of Raphtalia's village and buying people back from the slaver, who rubs his hand and looks forward for more business.
Yeah, this. I don't give a gently caress what kind of defenses people want to cobble together for the Shield Hero or his slaves, the fact will always remain that when he needed more firepower the Shield Hero went back to his good friend, The Slave Merchant, and bought a new slave. Lucky for him it was a bird that evolved into a little naked girl or that would have been really gross!

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Wheres sharkopath

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

I've met too many people that have no standards when it comes to these shows. They just watch what's current and don't think too hard about whatever it is

LorneReams
Jun 27, 2003
I'm bizarre

College Slice

Lurking Haro posted:

The first season ends with him becoming the ruler of Raphtalia's village and buying people back from the slaver, who rubs his hand and looks forward for more business.

He does have trust issues, which is why he never removed the crest on Raphtalia (and she put it back on when she had it removed ) and Filo got a monster version when she went on rampages in the beginning.

Wait, I just watched this, and that is not what is happening. He is saying he hopes he buys more in the future, but he is talking with his assistant about how that now that he has his own village, he won't need slaves, and will not be around for a while.

Is there like a season 2 episode 0 or something that spells this out?

Maxwell Adams
Oct 21, 2000

T E E F S

TheHan posted:

Yeah that's where I think a discussion about adaption scrubbing off all the grime from its source material would be really interesting.

Well, they're trying to scrub off that grime for the anime, but their only goal is making the characters sympathetic by never having them make a morally compromised decision. It sucks, it removes the weight that these concepts deserve, and it makes the story worse.

Take the moment where Naufumi buys Raphtalia. In the light novel, you read Naofumi's inner dialog, and it is intensely ugly. He's just been hurt by Malty, and now he wants to see a woman suffer. In the anime, that's gone, so it just seems like he's making a pragmatic choice. He's probably frowning because he feels guilty about having a slave.

Or take another example, when Raphtalia confronts the guy who captured her, tortured her, and sold her off to the slavers. In the source material, Raphtalia stabs him immediately, they fight a bit, then she stabs/hurls his rear end out a window. The anime has her stoically marching towards him as he whips her face, then she says that killing him would make her as bad as him. Then they fight a bit, and the guy trips over his own whip and falls out the window on his own. It's dumb as hell.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

The web novel is apparently the grossest version of it as Naofumi is practically very much pro-slavery in that version. Original Naofumi is basically a pragmatic sociopath.

The LNs definitely try to paint Naofumi as more conflicted over the whole thing (with the initial purchase of Raphtalia being a moment of character weakness) but the author is simply not a great writer so it's extremely poorly done.

But then there's the really gross bit later on where Naofumi actually does get over a lot of his issues and be a noble hero, only for his literal slaves to lament and want their rear end in a top hat back. That part really seems to paint Naofumi's worst parts as supposedly being a good thing. It makes it hard to take a lot of the issues with the franchise being just poor writing.

doomrider7
Nov 29, 2018

Smoking Chicken of the Sea

Mokinokaro posted:

The web novel is apparently the grossest version of it as Naofumi is practically very much pro-slavery in that version. Original Naofumi is basically a pragmatic sociopath.

The LNs definitely try to paint Naofumi as more conflicted over the whole thing (with the initial purchase of Raphtalia being a moment of character weakness) but the author is simply not a great writer so it's extremely poorly done.

But then there's the really gross bit later on where Naofumi actually does get over a lot of his issues and be a noble hero, only for his literal slaves to lament and want their rear end in a top hat back. That part really seems to paint Naofumi's worst parts as supposedly being a good thing. It makes it hard to take a lot of the issues with the franchise being just poor writing.

I remember reading something about some LN's being drat near completely rewritten by editors to fix so many problems in them so that they can be sold at all. It wouldn't surprise me if Shield Hero is one of them.

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything




Fun Shoe

doomrider7 posted:

I remember reading something about some LN's being drat near completely rewritten by editors to fix so many problems in them so that they can be sold at all. It wouldn't surprise me if Shield Hero is one of them.

There's that and a lot of them are adapted from web novels that the authors often wrote when they were teenagers so they've matured a bit since. The big example being SAO where the author's other works show a lot more skill.

Sharkopath
May 27, 2009



Namtab posted:

Wheres sharkopath

Do you know of the pronghorn antelope?

Sharkopath
May 27, 2009



It's an antelope from the western american grasslands that evolved among a bunch of apex predators that it eventually outlived. American Lions and Cheetahs and other fast big cats where speed was a real asset. It ended up fast, really really fast, the only comparable land animal is the cheetah and while the cheetah can reach a slightly higher topspeed on level terrain it doesnt have the endurance the pronghorn antelope has. They go above 60 miles an hour and can maintain that speed for at least a half a mile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYoQnFFnr-0

Just a supremely overtuned animal that no longer really has any need to go that fast but the behavior still exists. Sadly ranching and farming has broken up their natural territory and they arent very good at leaping or jumping so they like to dive under fencing instead of over it and they can get injured doing it.

Cool animals.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

I posted a 7 point defense of corporate wage theft because my brain is full of worms.

Clarste posted:

"It's okay to keep slaves until you can resolve your trust issues" is also a pretty horrible message. The audience is presumably expected to empathize with him and see his actions as understandable.

Also in the context of isekai stories generally, it's pretty obvious that this stuff is just meant to feed into a slave fetish and the reading that "overcoming the need for slavery" will be the arc of the story is far too charitable to the work.

The differences between the WN/LN/manga/anime all having various levels of pro slavery ideas and "women are lying whores" make it a moot point as most of the people replying to this are falling over themselves to point out its "not as bad" as a previous incarnation or that there is some plot justification to keep a slave.

Starting to realize quarantine zone isn't an exaggeration. 7 years of posting on these forums and someone finally got mad enough to pay money for an AV for me and I'm assuming its from posting here. I might be wrong but from this thread I've never in my life seen people so fervently try to defend depictions of slavery as "good/justified" in any context.

Money well spent, if it costs someone the chance to buy more pro-slavery media for consumption.

Sharkopath
May 27, 2009



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSuXT0Wo_nE

This is another cool grassland animal, although one that lives a bit farther north. A lesser known grouse that has a really funny warble cry and does a really cool tap tap mating dance. Very exciting birds that are on the decline but not yet recognized in total destructive freefall unlike some other prarie grouse species.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Sharky would it be fair to say youre now impressing us with obscure animals?

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


pentyne posted:

The differences between the WN/LN/manga/anime all having various levels of pro slavery ideas and "women are lying whores" make it a moot point as most of the people replying to this are falling over themselves to point out its "not as bad" as a previous incarnation or that there is some plot justification to keep a slave.

Starting to realize quarantine zone isn't an exaggeration. 7 years of posting on these forums and someone finally got mad enough to pay money for an AV for me and I'm assuming its from posting here. I might be wrong but from this thread I've never in my life seen people so fervently try to defend depictions of slavery as "good/justified" in any context.

Money well spent, if it costs someone the chance to buy more pro-slavery media for consumption.
My friend looking at your post history i can see many threads where people may choose to redtext you, although i agree with the sentiment that its less to spaff away on media

Kagaya Homoraisan
Aug 28, 2019

KEEP YOUR DIGNITY


Thankfully none of them actually have slaves to extract $10 from, though not from lack of want.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.

pentyne posted:

The differences between the WN/LN/manga/anime all having various levels of pro slavery ideas and "women are lying whores" make it a moot point as most of the people replying to this are falling over themselves to point out its "not as bad" as a previous incarnation or that there is some plot justification to keep a slave.

Starting to realize quarantine zone isn't an exaggeration. 7 years of posting on these forums and someone finally got mad enough to pay money for an AV for me and I'm assuming its from posting here. I might be wrong but from this thread I've never in my life seen people so fervently try to defend depictions of slavery as "good/justified" in any context.

Money well spent, if it costs someone the chance to buy more pro-slavery media for consumption.

As far as I can tell, only like two people have been defensive of Shield Hero or its slavery stuff in this thread (and I would be very concerned if this weren't the case).

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






I feel like Shield Hero has just revealed to us that yes, the standards of people in general really are that low and we'll overlook horrible, awful things if there's enough of a hook.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Argas posted:

I feel like Shield Hero has just revealed to us that yes, the standards of people in general really are that low and we'll overlook horrible, awful things if there's enough of a hook.

I saw it more as "For a lot of people, fiction is just fiction. Doesn't matter what's the actual content.

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SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007

this avatar is brought to you by the campaign to pay lowtax's medical bills since 1999
Keep the lights on in this dead gay forum



Hair Elf

I saw on a Funimation news post that Shield Hero is joining Isekai Quartet (Quintet) season 2.

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