Beasteh posted:

Can confirm slime isekai is good and cool

Light the Doomrider7 signal

Captain Cappy posted:

"After Motoyasu starts acting like a white knighting, self-righteous asshat accusing Naofumi of mistreating Raphtalia solely based on the fact she's his slave,"

Cipher Pol 9 posted:

Come to think of it, are there any reverse-harem isekai novels? Not that it'd make them any less lovely, but I'm always hearing about dudes becoming gods with harems of ladies. Where're the ladies with dude harems?

I guess there's probably not much of a market for that in all honesty. Maybe a dude with a dude harem then?

Jarakchan posted:

Listen, hear me out. What if she gets magically aged-up? Perfect. Problem solved.

Also, Bakarina and Accomplishments of a Dukes Daughter are legit as hell. Same as Saving 80,000 Gold Coins for my Old Age.

Captain Invictus posted:

Duke's daughter is good economic and nobility stuff, bakarina is silly and hilarious fluff.

Another good one is my ideal lazy life, where a guy is summoned by an incredibly hot queen from another world to be her husband and give her a child. The cover even makes it look like there's a bunch of silly harem shenanigans, and the very first page is sexy fun times!!!

Except it almost immediately switches to the in-depth politicking of this world where the queen is the first female ruler of her country in a basically entirely patriarchal world, and he has to learn how to properly act around nobles so as not to undermine his wife's image in the political world, while also learning customs and stuff. It eventually gets into the problems of illigetimate bloodlines, negotiations with other countries, etc. Oh, and it's totally monogamous and they're an adorable couple. It's a pretty good fakeout from the initial impression.

Irony Be My Shield posted:

I think just telling people that something is bad without having watched it isn't a very credible argument and they're likely to ignore it. If you can specifically engage with the misogynistic incel-style arguments that underpin almost every aspect of the narrative you can make a much better explanation of why the show is harmful. And since it's probably the most popular anime this season in the west that's an argument you're pretty likely to get into, possibly even in real life.

Watching the first two episodes was a pretty eye-opening experience actually. I've found that most "problematic" shows tend to be so more out of ignorance than anything else, but in Shield Hero it's very deliberate and the show really seethes with hatred for women.

Everything Burrito posted:

pointing out something like that doesn't require watching it though, i've absorbed all sorts of plot points about this dumb poo poo including that without watching a single second. not exclusive to this show either, I don't think a person has to like, give a bad show the three episode test to be 100% sure about their opinion.

write things off more, not everything deserves a fair shake or a sourced critical essay

Ytlaya posted:

Speaking of Goblins and lovely isekai, I'm reminded of that one where the main character is reincarnated as a Goblin and ends up with some ridiculous rape slave harem or something. It was like if you took the Slime isekai and added a bunch of Shield Hero-esque creepy poo poo to it.

edit: That series was also one of the many isekai that is briefly interesting at the very beginning before becoming bad.

Cephas posted:

Goblins are good, earnest little buddies and I'm glad that Rimuru is around to protect them from these other skeezeball authors

a computing pun posted:

hero of running a joke into the ground

Captain Invictus posted:

Two more recommendations, one isekai, one not

The Suffering of Local Knight Hans is an interesting isekai, it doesn't focus on a single isekai protagonist, but rather a retired knight who takes care of a small village out in the wilderness when suddenly "japanese" people with incredible powers start appearing one after another and he's forced to deal with them much to his dismay, it's a funny series. Mitsuba is the best.

And this one which isn't isekai but is very good, though not a ton of chapters are out yet


Series centered around older folks aren't super common, and I really like this one even if it gets preeeeetty melancholy at times. It has quite a good bit of humor to it, and Bard is a great protagonist. Also plenty of good looking cooking and food in it and the hearty enjoyment thereof. Only a little under a dozen chapters translated as of now, but the story definitely grabbed me, and the setting is an interesting one. The massive wall that extends as far as the eye can see and upwards into the clouds, except for a single slit that allows monsters to cross over into the human realms is properly portrayed as, well, monolithic.

Not licensed(yet), but links to get the Japanese versions are on the mangadex page. Great site.

Wark Say posted:

Enjoyed both Retired Knight manga recs.

Cuntellectual posted:

I decided to give shield hero a shot because some people whose taste I respect seemed to like it.

Putting aside the rape accusation thing entirely, is it just me or do people not seem to bring up the whole "loli slave harem" very much. Because that's a thing in this.



I think that one was re;Monster, I believe I heard about it when I was asking if it had anything to do with Monster. (it doesn't).

Brought To You By posted:

It's absolutely frustrating that such a good artist is attached to this mediocre series.

A Doomed Purloiner posted:

Everything Burrito posted:

Handyman Saitou In Another World is very good

Wark Say posted:

Hero who wants to be ally of justice but all they have going for them is their sick wrestling moves.

avoraciopoctules posted:

Could you link that blog, please? I don’t want to watch the show,, but I am interested in what kind of missteps it makes.
EDIT: and the signal to noise ratio looking for substantial criticism is pretty obnoxious. I haven’t been able to find a good in depth critique.

ViggyNash posted:

I don't think Goblin Slayer is mysoginistic so much as lazily sexist.

Lurking Haro posted:

Checked the Trope page to check and says they were only Steel-ranked, since you were putting so much emphasis on it.
Still hosed up.

One of the sins of the TV adaptation was the copy paste moons unless that was on purpose.

cock hero flux posted:

to give incredibly minimal credit where it is due, apparently at some point they show that the legend actually predicts that the shield hero is going to be an evil rear end in a top hat that everyone is gonna have to just put up with if they want to live, which is maybe part of why they were inclined to believe that was a rapist

Darth Walrus posted:

Didn't that also have an underaged slave harem?

Irony Be My Shield posted:

I disagree with the idea that it's a minor part of the show. It's the inciting incident that turns Naofumi from an awkward but kind-hearted nerd into an embittered rear end in a top hat who's willing to buy slaves. I also think that the misogyny is calculated and deliberate given how it's used to justify why Naofumi now hates all women. It's a classic 'nice guy' narrative.

quote:

It's worth noting the pattern that slavery-tolerant narratives in these sort of stories are usually part of. Normally, they will be featured in stories that are general power-fantasies, where the main character is (or ascends to become) an unstoppable supreme being who nobody is willing or able to gainsay. Having the protagonist's love interests (and isn't it interesting how it's almost always just women?) be his literal slaves is an extension of that that makes it clear what kind of power fantasy this is - one of absolute and total control which you will, of course, exercise ethically (but not actually, meaningfully relinquish) because you are a Good Guy.

These stories usually contrast it with a previous life characterised by a near-total lack of control - the protagonist is a shut-in, a downtrodden office worker, or whatever. Shield Hero makes it hilariously blatant and specific - the protagonist has his worldview shattered by being betrayed by the first adult woman to interact with him, and rebuilds his life by taking in a ten-year-old slave who eventually becomes his wife (and head of a small harem of other slaves) and helps him achieve godhood.

quote:

I've also seen it framed as the fantasy of "the girl who has no choice but to spend time with me, and therefore will eventually see how good I am deep down." As opposed to other girls who you might actually have to try to show your good side to, and who might reject you before you get a chance. This sort of logic also applies to childhood friends or little sister type love interests.

The basic nature of the fantasy is "I know I'm a great person, but no one else gives me a chance. If only they were forced by circumstance to give me a chance, then they'd also realize that I'm a great person (without me having to change my behavior even slightly)."

quote:

What Iaculus, Clarste and others said. The Isekai genre uses tortured reasoning and emotional appeals to have its protagonists get away with awful poo poo all the time, and Shield Hero is no different. If you're a young reader who's not used to this sort of narrative, you might actually believe that Naofumi is an ok guy because he treats his slave nicely - in spite of the times where he actually literally uses the slave collars around the neck of his slaves, which cause them immense pain when they disobey him.

The only reason people can root for Naofumi is because he is a walking persecution complex. He never actually strives to become a better person as far as I'm aware, making him a weird version of wanting recognition for not being an rear end in a top hat.

All the antagonists are more terrible than him, to him, for very flimsy reasons, and oh, they all claim they're innocent when they're blatantly evil, how could you not hate that! They're all malicious to the point of idiocy, idiots to the point of malice, or have some shady hidden agenda.

Shield Hero isn't the worst isekai out there (somehow), but it's pretty telling that it's considered popular, that it's gotten good production values and stuff.

LibrarianCroaker posted:

Re:Monster has a protagonist isekai'd into a goblin. He does the only sensible thing and proceeds to build rape farms.

Ytlaya posted:

Regarding the slave stuff, I think the thing that disgusts me the most about it is the typical "protagonist as a good person because they treat their slave kindly." It's just so gross. Literally treating a person like a pet, and like they're doing them a favor because they were fortunate enough to not be a slave themselves (and that the favor never extends to actually, you know, freeing them).

The thing that disgusts me second most is that there is frequently a point, presumably to help justify it, where the slave decides to keep being slave. So, you see, it isn't that the protagonist is forcing them! They want it! (You might also recognize this particular thing from Harry Potter, lol)


Shield Hero is considerably worse than Goblin Slayer. While both are bad, Goblin Slayer is "only" guilty of using rape for shock value 2 or 3 times, and is otherwise a fairly unremarkable fantasy (regular fantasy, not isekai) series. Unless it was added by the anime (or removed from the manga, which is the only version I saw), I'm not quite sure where all this "it is full of rape" stuff is coming from. That being said, it's not exactly good enough to warrant much effort being defended as merely "pretty bad." Rape as shock value is bad enough that it's pretty disqualifying even if it only happens once or twice.

With Shield Hero, on the other hand, it is obvious that the author genuinely hates women. I do not remember seeing not a single major female character who is portrayed positively and is not a literal child and slave (though I only read up until some time after the slave child says she wants to stay his slave ). You can just tell from the tone of the writing that there's a lot of actual anger simmering beneath the surface.

Gyges posted:

You guys are going kind of easy on Goblin Slayer. Yes, the horrible terrible things that happen to women are meant to paint the goblins as irredeemable. However, at least from what I saw, the terrible horrible things only happen to women. Dudes just get killed. Sure they might get eaten or Caesared to death, but that's it. Women are tortured in new an inventive ways, and their anguish is purposefully performative. It's near fetishistic fridging and attempted fridging.

Shield Hero is red pill women hate, Goblin Slayer is sadistic white knighting.

DisDisDis posted:

90% of the posts about them on this forum are from people constantly freaking out about how many people read/watch them who also obsessively read them all or know everything that happens in them some other way (idk how)

Namtab posted:

It's some weird extension of the sunk cost fallacy where you exhaust a lot of time reading the bad thing and therefore have to constantly post about it in all of the threads

DisDisDis posted:

this seems like an awful way to spend your time

Ytlaya posted:

Helck and Dungeon Meshi are actually legitimately good, to the point where I wouldn't need to use the "for an isekai or web novel" qualifier that applies to most other things on that list.


No, I'm only familiar with the manga; I haven't watched any of the anime. As mentioned, the manga is fairly unremarkable outside of the 2 or 3 dumb "rape as shock value" things I mentioned (I think there might actually be only one time it actually happens "on screen", with that being the the thing from the first chapter/episode). I remember actually being surprised that it wasn't as bad as I expected, even though I would never encourage anyone to read it (as mentioned, rape as shock value is a terrible plot device, even if it only happens once).

Shinjobi posted:

The Hero of being so self deprecating opponents feel bad and walk away

HiveCommander posted:

Do you mean the one where MC is a skeleton knight?
Bakarina is fantastic and I kinda regret not checking out until just recently, but waiting for new chapters is suffering

Mirage posted:

The word "isekai" just means "another world/realm," so if you want to get ultra-technical about it, things like Gulliver's Travels or the John Carter of Mars series are isekai. Heck, why not include the Divine Comedy while you're at it.

_{Hero of Making Your Dead Crush into a Literal Angel}

Cephas posted:

Are Digimon Tamers and Kobayashi's Maid Dragon reverse-isekai because they're about monsters traveling to the human world

Lurking Haro posted:

Isekai checklist: The plot revolves around being reborn or transported into another world

That's it.

This definition is from the Japanese Wikipedia article, you'd better believe those Otaku.

Onmi posted:

You're annoyed at them for promoting it? Not for being the ones funding it?

Mulderman posted:

Even if you don't watch anything else. At least watch the latest episode. It's a glorious trainwreck showing everything wrong with this series.

1. Shield Hero is at the celebration party but acts like a little kid and does nothing to help fix his image.
2. Shield Hero gets dragged into a 1 on 1 match vs Spear Hero. Who is egged on by the princess who for some reason isn't done loving with Shield Hero and now wants to take his slave partner away.
3. Slave Girl gets captured and hold against her will, she was showing agency of her own, so clearly she is under some kind of control spell.
4. Princess interferes with the match and starts laughing, yet nobody bats an eye.
5. Spear Hero points out that forcing slaves to fight is wrong. This is portrayed as a bad thing.
6. Slave Girl points out that he only used the painful force ability whenever she was too afraid to fight. RED FLAG! RED FLAG!
7. Slave Girl gets her slave seal removed and lashes out at Spear guy, telling him that if he's truly a good guy like Shield Hero, he would have also had a slave by his side. Wait what?
8. Princess starts acting like a huge racist rear end in a top hat, but no-one seems to care, not even these Isekai heroes who previously stated that they should be better than the people of the world they got send to.
9. Slave Girl tries to talk Shield Hero, is genuinely nice to him. But he lashes out anyways. Bitching about no matter how hard he tried, nobody likes him. So she gives him a motherly embrace by putting his head in her tits.
10. This causes Shield Hero to no longer see her as a young kid, but as a more grown up person (who still has the mind of a child, I'm not letting that one go)
11. The other 2 Isekai heroes show up and point out the obvious cheating that happened during the match. The king and princess who thus far have been able to force everyone in going along with their plans, don't bother doing so now and instead just walk away.
12. People still hate Shield Hero
13. But he now likes the taste of food.

Oh and all the while, this beautiful soothing music plays, telling the braindead fans of this show to feel emotional about the things that are happening.

And next episode he gets a chicken loli! And after restoring Slave girls slave seal, he also forces one on the chicken loli!


Like I said before, Shield Hero is a boring sludge of a series, but every now and then it spikes heavily into the what the hell were they thinking territory.

Lurking Haro posted:

I don't know what's wrong with 3.

7. was meant as why he doesn't free slaves if he actually cares for them. It seems Spear Hero only cared because Malty told him/Raccoon girl is cute. Still came across as weirdly worded.

making GBS threads on Shield Hero has been the whole series so far.

Mordaedil posted:

Number 3 is that they conclude that she is not being controlled by the slave collar, but therefore standing up for a rapist like the Shield Hero, she must be under some form of stronger mind control.

Mordaedil posted:

I am going entirely off of memory of a manga I read over a year ago, I am not watching this show because I have better things to read or watch.

Speaking of comedy, I recommend reading Sleeping Princess in Demon Lords castle for hijinks of a kidnapped princess being a bigger bother and threat to the demon lord than the Hero of the story, in her quest for perfect bedding and good naps.

Junpei Hyde posted:

It's mostly just really horny in an offputting way

Maxwell Adams posted:

Oh, you haven't seen anything yet. You just wait until that pope guy gets going.

This is the general pattern of the story: the whole world is against Naofumi, the persecution just keeping scaling up. Then the world bends over backwards to give him a chance to make amends, but he throws a temper tantrum and ruins everything for himself. The only times he is able to find some peace is when a woman is literally kneeling before him and acknowledging his greatness.

Relin posted:

america is full of temporarily embarrassed slave masters

ViggyNash posted:

How the gently caress does someone watch that and unironicly nod along?