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Snowman_McK posted:Except they wrote the battle in such a way that they absolutely do win, then Quill undoes the victory. They 'won' in that they almost had the Infinity Gauntlet off him. We also saw in Endgame that Thanos was more than capable of wrecking a lot of people's poo poo even without the Gauntlet. It is not very difficult to read that as "and Dr. Strange saw them remove the Gauntlet and then Thanos beheaded Iron Man in the subsequent fight before getting the Gauntlet back." "Obviously Dr. Strange had to be lying because I said so" is a weird-rear end argument.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:47
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ImpAtom posted:They 'won' in that they almost had the Infinity Gauntlet off him. We also saw in Endgame that Thanos was more than capable of wrecking a lot of people's poo poo even without the Gauntlet. It is not very difficult to read that as "and Dr. Strange saw them remove the Gauntlet and then Thanos beheaded Iron Man in the subsequent fight before getting the Gauntlet back." That's not what I'm arguing though. Or implying. I'm arguing that they filmed an action scene that doesn't jive with the the script. In fact, that's what I explicitly said.
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Jun 25, 2019 00:50
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Snowman_McK posted:That's not what I'm arguing though. Or implying. Yes it is. You're assuming that them pulling the Gauntlet off was a win. It is entirely possible it wasn't. That does not go against the script. The characters having the upper hand is not the same as the characters winning. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Jun 25, 2019 |
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Jun 25, 2019 00:53
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ImpAtom posted:It is entirely possible it wasn't. If only they wrote or filmed the scene so that we knew one way or the other. If only the scene wasn't constructed around all the characters desperately pooling their efforts to pull this thing off, only for their efforts to be undone by one of them being an idiot, rather than them being undone because it wasn't enough to beat him. I mean, I'm criticising it purely as a piece of
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Jun 25, 2019 01:02
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Snowman_McK posted:If only they wrote or filmed the scene so that we knew one way or the other. If only the scene wasn't constructed around all the characters desperately pooling their efforts to pull this thing off, only for their efforts to be undone by one of them being an idiot, rather than them being undone because it wasn't enough to beat him. And I'm saying that your criticism doesn't actually make a lot of sense. You're still clinging to "and we see them winning" which isn't the case. We see them an iota away from pulling off the glove before Quill does something stupid but that is not the same as winning. Thanos is shown to be a significant threat capable of beating down incredibly powerful superbeings earlier in the film, even discounting the second part of the film, something the audience is shown. The scene is framed in such a way that the audience goes "maybe this is the winning moment" but it isn't. The fact that the audience had a moment of thinking that doesn't mean it was, especially when things in the film and its second half both show that the Gauntlet is not the beginning and end of his powers. You're trying to frame it as me defending Thanos or whatever but I'm not. I'm pointing out that you're ignoring context in the film around it to go "these characters are WINNING and everyone knows if characters appear to be winning that is literally the only thing that can be happening, fakeouts or shifts in momentum are not allowed in film."
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Jun 25, 2019 01:11
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Pirate Jet posted:It’s one of the big disappointments of the MCU that they don’t even know how to use its massive size. They fiddled with showcasing each stone and what makes it so powerful in the individual origin movies, with Dr. Strange being the most focused on it, but didn’t really commit, so when we start Infinity War Thanos just already has two and they’re treated like the Chaos Emeralds. It's still really loving stupid that they retconned Loki's staff into being an Infinity Stone.
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Jun 25, 2019 01:14
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I mean, on the flipside there's no indication that getting the gauntlet off wouldn't be a win. Until Quill pistol-whips Thanos, he's incapacitated with Mantis' coma mind-meld or whatever, and up until that point the only proof we had seen of Thanos winning in a hand-to-hand fight was after he'd already gained the power stone. The mechanics of the gauntlet are so abstract in the MCU, it's not unreasonable to assume that the reason he was able to beat Thor and Hulk in a fistfight was because he had access to a celestial thingamajig. You can cite Endgame if you want, but in Infinity War, as a standalone film, the situation absolutely presents the Avengers as "winning" until Star-Lord goes off-script.
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Jun 25, 2019 01:19
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ImpAtom posted:And I'm saying that your criticism doesn't actually make a lot of sense. You're still clinging to "and we see them winning" which isn't the case. We see them an iota away from pulling off the glove before Quill does something stupid but that is not the same as winning. I'm not, actually. I've moved on to asking 'why don't we know?' and 'what in the film suggests that it isn't a win?'
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Jun 25, 2019 01:24
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Tart Kitty posted:I mean, on the flipside there's no indication that getting the gauntlet off wouldn't be a win. Until Quill pistol-whips Thanos, he's incapacitated with Mantis' coma mind-meld or whatever, and up until that point the only proof we had seen of Thanos winning in a hand-to-hand fight was after he'd already gained the power stone. The mechanics of the gauntlet are so abstract in the MCU, it's not unreasonable to assume that the reason he was able to beat Thor and Hulk in a fistfight was because he had access to a celestial thingamajig. You can cite Endgame if you want, but in Infinity War, as a standalone film, the situation absolutely presents the Avengers as "winning" until Star-Lord goes off-script. They're really not. The film makes it pretty blatant every time Thanos is using it. Like they glow and everything and the very scene we're discussing relies on the fact that you have to close the fist of the gauntlet to activate a stone. The film is actually fairly good about making it clear when Thanos is using a stone versus when Thanos is being Thanos without having Thanos give an anime attack cry every time he uses a gem. Like there's a lot to criticize about IW/EG's action direction (the final fight in Endgame is increasingly nonsense the more spend you time actually doing more than getting excited over action figures smashing into one another) but there's level of 'everything is terrible forever' which goes into hyperbole land.
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Jun 25, 2019 01:36
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ImpAtom posted:They're really not. The film makes it pretty blatant every time Thanos is using it. Like they glow and everything and the very scene we're discussing relies on the fact that you have to close the fist of the gauntlet to activate a stone. The film is actually fairly good about making it clear when Thanos is using a stone versus when Thanos is being Thanos without having Thanos give an anime attack cry every time he uses a gem. No one is saying 'everything is terrible forever' I mean, you're the one asking the audience to extrapolate that Thanos, a character who's never been seen in a fight without the gauntlet (never mind winning one) would still win the fight without the thing that the scene is focused on getting off of him, and the thing the entire plot up to that point has been focused on him using. I'll remind you that they've still managed to contain him, even with the gauntlet, and they're the ones who uncontain him. It's a pretty simple criticism, that the action doesn't quite line up with the script, and you're the one defending it tooth and nail. If there's anyone arguing from an absolute position, it's you. They actually sell the same idea quite well later on, twice, where Thanos seems to be denied his victory, then wins. They just hosed up that one.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:01
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Snowman_McK posted:I'm not, actually. I've moved on to asking 'why don't we know?' and 'what in the film suggests that it isn't a win?' The bookends of Strange saying "There's only one way for us to win" followed by "I'm sorry Tony, this was the only way." The first sets up the near-victory fakeout, the latter heavily implies that their defeat on Titan -- and the subsequent snap -- were necessary steps on the road to the actual victory yet to come.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:04
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:The bookends of Strange saying "There's only one way for us to win" followed by "I'm sorry Tony, this was the only way." You've successfully identified the disconnect between the script and the action scene that was the original catalyst for the conversation.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:12
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ImpAtom posted:They're really not. The film makes it pretty blatant every time Thanos is using it. Like they glow and everything and the very scene we're discussing relies on the fact that you have to close the fist of the gauntlet to activate a stone. The film is actually fairly good about making it clear when Thanos is using a stone versus when Thanos is being Thanos without having Thanos give an anime attack cry every time he uses a gem. This. Thanos beats down the Hulk without ever using a Stone. The only person on Titan who might have had something in his arsenal capable of killing Thanos even degloved was Strange.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:23
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I feel like Thanos would've been better if he had actually fought in the movies briefly before Infinity War to show he was a huge threat even without the stones. Then he'd get the stones and feel even more unbeatable. I guess Guardians of the Galaxy would be the best place for that? Show up right after Ronan is defeated and beat the crap out of everyone before they force him to retreat with the power stone.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:27
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I'm saying the action direction served its intended purpose. We're supposed to feel that the crew "almost won" save for Quill, we find out later that it was not, in fact, the case.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:28
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RatHat posted:I feel like Thanos would've been better if he had actually fought in the movies briefly before Infinity War to show he was a huge threat even without the stones. Then he'd get the stones and feel even more unbeatable. I guess Guardians of the Galaxy would be the best place for that? Show up right after Ronan is defeated and beat the crap out of everyone before they force him to retreat with the power stone. After Thor 2 I had said Thor 3 should have been Thor and Beta Ray Bill adventuring against the Celestials. At the end or after credits we see Thanos show up and lay waste and destroy Asgard and grab a gem to show his threat.
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Jun 25, 2019 02:33
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For me the weirdest thing about that scene is that they make a point of showing that Sgtrange’s portals can cut off a large dude’s arm, then they have Thanos incapacitated with his arm fully extended and stand around pulling on it instead of cutting the arm off. Just take out that previous arm cutting off scene lol
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Jun 25, 2019 02:55
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:I'm saying the action direction served its intended purpose. We're supposed to feel that the crew "almost won" save for Quill, we find out later that it was not, in fact, the case. So we're told something that the action direction contradicts. Again, you've just identified the complaint. I'd rather give a good example of action direction that I think does a better job: The Raid's villain, Mad Dog. Who he is is in the name, and he fights that way. He's a really small dude, and so his opponents, who are bigger than him, easily throw him round. The thing is, it doesn't matter, because when he's put in a bad position, he fights from that position. You pin him and he hits you, kicks you and headbutts you from that position. He doesn't improve his position, he just hits you until you let go. Aside from the guy playing him being an amazing physical performer, he fights in character.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:00
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Snowman_McK posted:So we're told something that the action direction contradicts. Again, you've just identified the complaint. tell me how you feel about the ending to Rocky
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Jun 25, 2019 03:05
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RatHat posted:I feel like Thanos would've been better if he had actually fought in the movies briefly before Infinity War to show he was a huge threat even without the stones. Then he'd get the stones and feel even more unbeatable. I guess Guardians of the Galaxy would be the best place for that? Show up right after Ronan is defeated and beat the crap out of everyone before they force him to retreat with the power stone. I actually agree with this, it felt weird that in Guardians 1 Ronan kind of filled that roll. They made him insanely powerful even before he had the stone which was weird. Like they had him just completely lay out Drax for an entire scene and honestly, that scene could have had Drax beating the poo poo out of Ronan instead, or them at a standstill, whatever, and the plot would have played out the exact same way anyway since it just leads to Ronan running off with the orb.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:12
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Adlai Stevenson posted:tell me how you feel about the ending to Rocky I'm very curious to know where you're going with this.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:13
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RatHat posted:I feel like Thanos would've been better if he had actually fought in the movies briefly before Infinity War to show he was a huge threat even without the stones. Then he'd get the stones and feel even more unbeatable. I guess Guardians of the Galaxy would be the best place for that? Show up right after Ronan is defeated and beat the crap out of everyone before they force him to retreat with the power stone. Beating Hulk without using the power stone was supposed to be that scene.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:23
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AdmiralViscen posted:For me the weirdest thing about that scene is that they make a point of showing that Sgtrange’s portals can cut off a large dude’s arm, then they have Thanos incapacitated with his arm fully extended and stand around pulling on it instead of cutting the arm off. Just take out that previous arm cutting off scene lol It's a weird glaring issue, but like a lot of the logic lapses in Infinity War is handwaved away with "well that wasn't apart of the successful outcome that Strange saw  "
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Jun 25, 2019 03:27
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I think the better solution to being told there was only one way to defeat Thanos and this is it, all other options fail, would be to show some of those options failing, rather than the audience assuming any option they can think of would fail. For example, in Endgame Strange opens a portal from Titan to earth, so there doesn't seem to be limit on distance so why didn't he just open a portal above a sun (any sun, pick one, there's billions!) and dump Thanos through it. Of course this wouldn't work because the story would be over, but it would be better to show Thanos defeating this attempt rather than just assume that was one option Strange looked at off-screen that failed for whatever reason. The complaint is being told that all other options would fail and this is the only way is not as effective as perhaps showing a couple of those options and WHY they would fail. I mean, it's not like any of these films involve time-travelling to an alternate dimension right? On another note, it would have been better if Cap lifting Mjolnir had been what allowed Iron Man to get the stones off Thanos, rather than just being a moment at the start of the fight that meant nothing and achieved nothing.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:34
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Iron man beat hulk so I'm not very impressed thanos did it.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:46
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MacheteZombie posted:Iron man beat hulk so I'm not very impressed thanos did it. Yeah, they've got a version of hulk where the solution is just to hit harder.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:49
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MacheteZombie posted:Iron man beat hulk so I'm not very impressed thanos did it. Fun fact: That is literally the only time a hulkbuster armor has ever beaten the hulk.
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Jun 25, 2019 03:52
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So apparently Ezra Miller's contract as The Flash is supposed to end already but then there are reports saying he will film a Flash movie after he's done with Fantastic Beasts 3 next year. It is unknown if they're using a script by the Spider-Man Homecoming writers, which Miller apparently dislikes, or the one Miller himself co-wrote with Grant Morrison, which is supposed to be darker, or if they're combining elements of both.
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Jun 25, 2019 04:10
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The MSJ posted:So apparently Ezra Miller's contract as The Flash is supposed to end already but then there are reports saying he will film a Flash movie after he's done with Fantastic Beasts 3 next year. It is unknown if they're using a script by the Spider-Man Homecoming writers, which Miller apparently dislikes, or the one Miller himself co-wrote with Grant Morrison, which is supposed to be darker, or if they're combining elements of both. Odds are that we will get the Spider-Man Homecoming writers' script with a new Flash.
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Jun 25, 2019 04:22
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How loving hard is it to write a Flash movie
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Jun 25, 2019 04:30
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The MSJ posted:a script by the Spider-Man Homecoming writers drake making the 'no thanks' motion quote:the one Miller himself co-wrote with Grant Morrison drake pointing approvingly
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Jun 25, 2019 04:33
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:How loving hard is it to write a Flash movie Had to delay production because people were too creeped out by Ezra Miller’s photo-real teeth.
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Jun 25, 2019 04:37
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It's obvious that WB/DC is trying hard to re-think the DCEU and I imagine the Ezra Miller Flash situation is a holdover that is difficult to get away from so they are just delaying and delaying (by approving The Joker and Wonder Woman 1984, etc.) until it is eventually given-up on. I mean, Batman is re-cast and Henry Cavill's role is in limbo and the whole Flashpoint idea (which is to be the Flash solo movie) was directly set-up in BvS. WB/DC will win by attrition at this point.
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Jun 25, 2019 04:40
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:How loving hard is it to write a Flash movie Honestly it's pretty tough. Creating a good Flash movie isn't impossible by any means but it involves dealing with a character who is arguably more difficult to do interesting challenges for than Superman is. Quicksilver in the X-Men movies is a great example because when he uses his power it absolutely dominates a scene. The more you tone it back though the less impressive he feels especially if they're insisting on shoving him into a Cinematic Universe where Superman and Shazam are both present and already do the Super Speed thing. Again, not impossible, but it involves a pretty deft hand to make it feel fun and interesting and not just run into the "why is he so stupid?" problem you get with most Superhero movies amplified. It probably doesn't help that Geoff Johns appears to be pushing for "DO FLASHPOINT" at every opportunity which is less a Flash movie and more a Batman movie that happens to feature The Flash. The Flash TV show appears to do pretty well for itself but I also frequently hear Barry Allen called the stupidest man alive.
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Jun 25, 2019 04:44
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The Flash TV series shows the main issue with writing Flash stories. They always go back to time travel and dimension trouble as plot elements, and there are multiple speedster characters introduced as allies and enemies to Barry.
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Jun 25, 2019 04:55
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garycoleisgod posted:For example, in Endgame Strange opens a portal from Titan to earth, so there doesn't seem to be limit on distance so why didn't he just open a portal above a sun (any sun, pick one, there's billions!) and dump Thanos through it. He wouldn’t even need the last part - just open one end of the portal in the core of the sun and instantly blast Thanos with 15,000,000 degrees celsius.
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Jun 25, 2019 05:04
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:How loving hard is it to write a Flash movie It's more about how hard is it to write a Flash movie without Geoff Johns stealing it and replacing it with Flashpoint.
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Jun 25, 2019 07:27
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I would like a fresh, original Flash movie. If it takes time to write it, move poo poo around and make other movies while it gets made.
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Jun 25, 2019 07:44
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There are now official Marvel stage plays. They're meant for teens and for performances at schools or community centers.quote:Marvel has teamed up with Samuel French to make three officially licensed Marvel plays available for performances. It’s a program called “Marvel Spotlight” and it’s kicking off with three plays:
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Jun 25, 2019 09:30
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The MSJ posted:There are now official Marvel stage plays. They're meant for teens and for performances at schools or community centers. Tempted to buy a script and find/replace for my school's brand new DC stage play.
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Jun 25, 2019 10:19
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