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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



the people that are gonna be real mad about that finish are the same type of people who cant wait to tell you how many people theyve seen die at short tracks, where REAL MEN DO THE REAL RACING NOT U SNOWFLAKES

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Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



Cygni posted:

the people that are gonna be real mad about that finish are the same type of people who cant wait to tell you how many people theyve seen die at short tracks, where REAL MEN DO THE REAL RACING NOT U SNOWFLAKES

brb checking smoke's twitter

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003

Welcome to my ignore list, cretin. BAZINGA!


Yet again I did not get to interview Rodney. Ffs.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





drgitlin posted:

Yet again I did not get to interview Rodney. Ffs.

Heís fast become your great neon and Velcro whale.

And hey, if you didnít get enough from last weekend at Daytona, guess whatís coming up this coming weekend? The Bathurst 12 Hour!

Dr. Garbanzo
Sep 14, 2010

Pogo sticks are awesome!


harperdc posted:

Heís fast become your great neon and Velcro whale.

And hey, if you didnít get enough from last weekend at Daytona, guess whatís coming up this coming weekend? The Bathurst 12 Hour!

Iíll be heading along to watch the race on the Sunday after missing last years. Itís a great race to roll along to as the crowds arenít massive and I hope the Bentley crew do better this year cause they always seem to get taken out by misfortune when their cars for the most part are super consistent all day.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.

harperdc posted:

Heís fast become your great neon and Velcro whale.

And hey, if you didnít get enough from last weekend at Daytona, guess whatís coming up this coming weekend? The Bathurst 12 Hour!

And Nissan is streaming it all through the Nismo TV Youtube channel. Practice, qualifying, the shootout, race and all the support categories.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



what time does the race start in EST? Am I gonna have to get up at 3am to watch PT crash into a mountain?

Basticle fucked around with this message at Jan 28, 2019 around 22:01

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





Basticle posted:

what time does the race start in EST? Am I gonna have to get up at 3am to watch PT crash into a mountain?

5:45 Aussie Eastern time on Sunday is the green flag, which should be about 1:45 pm PT on Saturday afternoon. So, manageable for the US!

CactusWeasle
Aug 1, 2006
It's not a party until the bomb squad says it is

Basticle posted:

Am I gonna have to get up at 3am to watch PT crash into a mountain?

Like asking if you *have to* eat ice cream

e: https://www.facebook.com/7NewsBrisb...96596340687359/

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Yeah Bathurst 12h is one of the few events in Australia that is easily watchable in the US

Dr. Garbanzo
Sep 14, 2010

Pogo sticks are awesome!


MazeOfTzeentch posted:

Yeah Bathurst 12h is one of the few events in Australia that is easily watchable in the US

Itís also one of the easiest to watch in Australia without having to pay for the privilege. The NISMO stream will be geo locked during the event but should be open again afterwards. Itís also one of the few events shown on public tv. Every other series is only on pay tv which sucks immensely.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012



Upset Trowel

Analysis: For Mazda's IMSA program, it's 51 and, unfortunately, counting.

quote:


This might be it: Mazda’s best chance for a win since, well, forever in the calendar scope of the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship.

Obviously, it didn’t happen. In the dead of night, minutes apart, both the Mazdas burst into flames, literally and figuratively -- the pole-sitting No. 77 while on track, the No. 55, which qualified fourth, as it sat in the garage, under repair. The 77 was retired, jammed against the wall of the No. 1 garage, prime real estate earned by winning the pole.

The No. 55 returned to the track. Then, all by itself, it spun into the grass, squatting oddly from some new mechanical failure. It was towed to the garage, and 28 people, employees of Mazda; of chassis-builder Multimatic, the company that built the Ford GT; and of Joest, the legendary, Audi-centric German company hired by Mazda in 2017 to fix the program, attacked the car from the front, sides, back and underneath. There were electrical problems. There were powertrain problems. A brand-new engine was uncrated, and employees began cannibalizing it for parts.

Behind the car, John Doonan, head of the Mazda Motorsports programs in the U.S. -- and perhaps the most loved and respected constant presence in the paddock -- stood there with a look on his face you’d expect to see when a man is watching his house burn.

This couldn’t be happening -- again -- but it was. Shortly before 6 a.m., about an hour after the rain started, Mazda gave up and literally closed the door on the two garages. Five years and a day after that first loss, Mazda had lost again.

I honestly feel sorry for John Doonan, because he has had to watch the team come up agonizingly short every time for the last 5 years.

If they were using even a V6 engine they would have a better shot. Cranking 40 psi of boost through a 2 liter 4 banger does not bode well for it surviving in an endurance environment.

orange juche fucked around with this message at Jan 30, 2019 around 10:04

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





orange juche posted:

Analysis: For Mazda's IMSA program, it's 51 and, unfortunately, counting.

I honestly feel sorry for John Doonan, because he has had to watch the team come up agonizingly short every time for the last 5 years.

If they were using even a V6 engine they would have a better shot. Cranking 40 psi of boost through a 2 liter 4 banger does not bode well for it surviving in an endurance environment.

oh man, this passage

quote:

Behind the car, John Doonan, head of the Mazda Motorsports programs in the U.S. -- and perhaps the most loved and respected constant presence in the paddock -- stood there with a look on his face youíd expect to see when a man is watching his house burn.

is such a picture but so, so, so heartbreaking.

Wirth1000
May 12, 2010

LOOK AT THIS SANDWICH I MADE, IT IS AN HOMAGE TO MY FAVOURITE FORMULA ONE TEAM - WILLIAMS GRAND PRIX. I USED A RENTED FORD SIERRA, UPSIDE DOWN BY THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AS MY INSIPIRATION.


orange juche posted:

Analysis: For Mazda's IMSA program, it's 51 and, unfortunately, counting.


I honestly feel sorry for John Doonan, because he has had to watch the team come up agonizingly short every time for the last 5 years.

If they were using even a V6 engine they would have a better shot. Cranking 40 psi of boost through a 2 liter 4 banger does not bode well for it surviving in an endurance environment.

Shoulda gone rotary

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



Wirth1000 posted:

Shoulda gone rotary

so everyone would have been deaf by the time it blew up?

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012



Upset Trowel

harperdc posted:

oh man, this passage


is such a picture but so, so, so heartbreaking.

Yeah he's a nice dude too, I've shaken his hand and chatted at fan events during the petit le mans.

net work error
Feb 26, 2011



orange juche posted:

If they were using even a V6 engine they would have a better shot. Cranking 40 psi of boost through a 2 liter 4 banger does not bode well for it surviving in an endurance environment.

This is the part that always confuses me. I get that many of their production cars use a 4 cylinder but it just doesn't seem like a great idea for this kind of race car. Then again I'm no expert and there are some crazy 4 cylinder cars in other series. I just want Mazda to win.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012



Upset Trowel

Also the worst thing about the Mazda prototype program flailing so hard unsuccessfully is that Mazda might wind up losing their taste for supporting grassroots racing efforts, or that John Doonan might just give up and get replaced by someone else who doesn't give a poo poo about racing beyond balancing an accounting sheet, which would lead to a significant paring back of their current motorsports involvement.

Like, if you're involved in a Mazda Motorsports sanctioned series, you can get really good deals on OEM performance parts, and replacement equipment for your car that you are racing, as well as contingency awards (cash awards in GT classes, or credit towards performance parts if you're driving a Miata) for finishing in the top 5 spots in an endurance race.

orange juche fucked around with this message at Jan 30, 2019 around 16:21

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



Mazda already abandoned the Road to Indy so...

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012



Upset Trowel

Basticle posted:

Mazda already abandoned the Road to Indy so...

Yeah Mazda pulling back from Road to Indy sucks really hard, a ton of the rookies who qualified for for the 2018 Indy 500 came up through the Mazda program. Who knows what's going to happen to that program in the future. Apparently Mazda is still paying for USF2000 and Pro Mazda for 2019, but they've already taken their name off everything.

CAT INTERCEPTOR
Nov 9, 2004

I think you mean dont piss in the sink....again!

Basticle posted:

so everyone would have been deaf by the time it blew up?

Joke doesnt work if you remember who out of the Japanese won LeMans first

You Am I
May 20, 2001

I will decide who posts John Howard pictures in this thread and the circumstances in which they post.


Or the number of 12 Hour Bathurst runs that Mazda won during the 90s with the third gen RX-7

an oddly awful oud
May 1, 2008

all my friends are pieces of shit

orange juche posted:

Also the worst thing about the Mazda prototype program flailing so hard unsuccessfully is that Mazda might wind up losing their taste for supporting grassroots racing efforts, or that John Doonan might just give up and get replaced by someone else who doesn't give a poo poo about racing beyond balancing an accounting sheet, which would lead to a significant paring back of their current motorsports involvement.

I think Doonan's already working with a pared budget imposed upon him by Mazda USA. The cuts to MRTI were clearly made to move those eggs into the Prototype basket. I'm not sure how much more Mazda Motorsports could be cut down without causing them to become extinct as a brand in any racing series that gets actual viewership. Regardless of what that article posits, Mazda can't race only MX-5s and Mazda3 TCR cars in SRO GT America and just the latter in the feeder IMSA Michelin Pilot Challenge. It wouldn't justify a Motorsports program in general, and it seems like there are still a lot of people at corporate who feel that racing is integral to the brand they're shepherding.

The problem is that with no coupes bigger than the Miata, they can't go into GTD or GTLM to try to save money. They almost have to be in Prototype now, but they're doing it with a bare minimum of resources because Mazda USA only has so much money and Mazda Japan has always been largely indifferent to US motorsports, especially when they're preoccupied with just keeping their company in the black.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





GTLM wouldnít be any cheaper. Besides Corvette (which is adding a car for the WEC Sebring 1000), all of the GTLM teams are running development both for IMSA and the WEC, and possibly supplying cars for the Am class in ELMS. Itís a different animal than DPi.

As well, even if they had a car for GT3, the SRO is on the record as not wanting any further ďbespokeĒ GT3 cars. Thereís a minimum build number (I think 25?) and requirement that the OEMs build them for customers and support them around the world. Theyíd be eligible for a lot of different series, but again, thatís different and a higher level of investment than doing DPi.

I hope Mazda succeeds this year. They need to.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012



Upset Trowel

harperdc posted:

GTLM wouldnít be any cheaper. Besides Corvette (which is adding a car for the WEC Sebring 1000), all of the GTLM teams are running development both for IMSA and the WEC, and possibly supplying cars for the Am class in ELMS. Itís a different animal than DPi.

As well, even if they had a car for GT3, the SRO is on the record as not wanting any further ďbespokeĒ GT3 cars. Thereís a minimum build number (I think 25?) and requirement that the OEMs build them for customers and support them around the world. Theyíd be eligible for a lot of different series, but again, thatís different and a higher level of investment than doing DPi.

I hope Mazda succeeds this year. They need to.


Yeah the difference between what Mazda Motorsports is doing and what a make like Audi does for their GT3 customers is night and day. Audi is required to provide logistical support and all sorts of poo poo (car transport if necessary, technical experts on site at races, parts trucks ready to go) for their GT3 customers all over the world, whereas Mazda Motorsports gives you a deal via their performance parts portal.

Audi is a lot bigger and can afford that kind of support, I don't think Mazda could though.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





orange juche posted:

Audi is a lot bigger and can afford that kind of support, I don't think Mazda could though.

Itís not that Audi is bigger, itís that they have built up the machine to support it. Ginetta probably has equally good customer support and theyíre tiny by comparison.

Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012



Neither GTLM/GTE/GT2 nor GTD/GT3 make any sense for Mazda. Maybe GT4, amp the Miata up like Spinal Tap and push that poo poo to 11?
They don't really make racing cars, even the Miata is more of a pure sports car that people take on the track due to it's... "forgiving" utter lack of power.

They're in a bit of a bind and with no RX-7-tier replacement seemingly even on the horizon (the RX-Vision got turned into a luxury car iirc) that's just kind of where they are. They're stuck racing the cheapest prototype series they can find (which is DPi if you're a manufacturer) and they have 0 alternative options moving forwards except for cutting and running and ending a rich, storied tradition even if that tradition is mostly based on something that absolutely doesn't deserve it (the 787B) and ignoring dominance that absolutely does (the RX-7s). Even the engine choice for that cheap prototype racing is limited as Mazda only make (inline?) 4 cylinders these days.

If the Furai had gone somewhere, we'd be cooking with gas. But we're not.
We're waiting for the hotplate to turn on, dreaming of what was.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





And even if Mazda went with a rotary itís not like those havenít been banned or limited in ways to reduce the advantages to the package.

Shame. Love hearing the angry kegs of bees.

Spaced God
Feb 8, 2014


Clearly we must go with more esoteric engine designs.

W-style engine endurance car when

Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012



Spaced God posted:

Clearly we must go with more esoteric engine designs.

W-style engine endurance car when

Bentley do run a car in Blancpain...

an oddly awful oud
May 1, 2008

all my friends are pieces of shit

Schlesische posted:

Neither GTLM/GTE/GT2 nor GTD/GT3 make any sense for Mazda. Maybe GT4, amp the Miata up like Spinal Tap and push that poo poo to 11?
They don't really make racing cars, even the Miata is more of a pure sports car that people take on the track due to it's... "forgiving" utter lack of power.

They're in a bit of a bind and with no RX-7-tier replacement seemingly even on the horizon (the RX-Vision got turned into a luxury car iirc) that's just kind of where they are. They're stuck racing the cheapest prototype series they can find (which is DPi if you're a manufacturer) and they have 0 alternative options moving forwards except for cutting and running and ending a rich, storied tradition even if that tradition is mostly based on something that absolutely doesn't deserve it (the 787B) and ignoring dominance that absolutely does (the RX-7s). Even the engine choice for that cheap prototype racing is limited as Mazda only make (inline?) 4 cylinders these days.

If the Furai had gone somewhere, we'd be cooking with gas. But we're not.
We're waiting for the hotplate to turn on, dreaming of what was.
Here's my ridiculous fantasy: Mazda's DPi program should serve as a proving ground for global engine development, the same way the Ford DP briefly existed to develop the 3.5 Ecoboost for the upcoming GT. Continuing to beat the old rotary horse: seriously, is there any more logical an R&D program for a modern rotary than prototype endurance racing? They've already said they're going to use them as EV range extenders in road cars so they're not giving up on them entirely. Get Hiroshima's skunkworks to try to develop a new triple rotor and see if you can work out the lopsided thermal management. Maybe experiment with turbulent jet ignition to try to keep condensed gasoline vapor off the rotor housing walls and get more complete combustion, and then market it as Skyactiv-X because it's similar enough in concept to the SPCCI idea in the road car engines they're working on. Mate it with a hybrid power unit to be in line with the 2022 DPi regs.

Then, after this prototype stops catching fire at every race, you can put a lot of that development and money back into a flagship road car with a rotary hybrid powerplant, the same way Porsche's 919 influenced the 918 Spyder. Not at that cost level, of course, but something similar. Mazda wants to swim upmarket in the US and the Audi R8 showed how a beautiful supercar that draws a line directly to a successful racing heritage, when marketed well, can lead the way. And that car, and any cheaper sports cars derived from it, can eventually be turned into GT3 and GT4 customer cars so they can operate on a smaller, more profitable level of Motorsports in the future, if necessary.

It'll never happen, because it takes way more money than Mazda USA has to spend, development resources that Mazda Japan can't and won't allocate, and risks spending a lot of cash and development efforts on something ultimately irrelevant like the new Acura NSX. But I would like it if it did!

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003

Welcome to my ignore list, cretin. BAZINGA!


The 919 Hybrid actually influenced the current 911 and 718 way more than the 918 Spyder. The design of the cylinder and head on the 919 V4 shares a LOT with the the flat-4 and flat-6. Meanwhile the 918 Spyder actually owes a lot more to the RS Spyder of the mid-2000s.

And in the real world, the RT24-P uses an AER racing engine that has nothing in common with Skyactiv-X or Skyactiv-G.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



Schlesische posted:

Bentley do run a car in Blancpain...

with a V8

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





drgitlin posted:

The 919 Hybrid actually influenced the current 911 and 718 way more than the 918 Spyder. The design of the cylinder and head on the 919 V4 shares a LOT with the the flat-4 and flat-6. Meanwhile the 918 Spyder actually owes a lot more to the RS Spyder of the mid-2000s.

And in the real world, the RT24-P uses an AER racing engine that has nothing in common with Skyactiv-X or Skyactiv-G.

the 918 Spyder uses a V8 too, which I wouldn't be shocked to learn is closer to the RS Spyder. the 918 Spyder also came out a year before the 919 racer debuted. For those that don't know: the road car is going to be on the drawing board a whole lot earlier than that (the 919 had concept cars in 2010 and 2011 for reference).

drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003

Welcome to my ignore list, cretin. BAZINGA!


harperdc posted:

the 918 Spyder uses a V8 too, which I wouldn't be shocked to learn is closer to the RS Spyder. the 918 Spyder also came out a year before the 919 racer debuted. For those that don't know: the road car is going to be on the drawing board a whole lot earlier than that (the 919 had concept cars in 2010 and 2011 for reference).

Yep, the 918 engine is based on the RS Spyderís V8.

Spaced God
Feb 8, 2014


Basticle posted:

with a V8

Cowards

Schlesische
Jul 4, 2012



drgitlin posted:

The 919 Hybrid actually influenced the current 911 and 718 way more than the 918 Spyder. The design of the cylinder and head on the 919 V4 shares a LOT with the the flat-4 and flat-6. Meanwhile the 918 Spyder actually owes a lot more to the RS Spyder of the mid-2000s.

And in the real world, the RT24-P uses an AER racing engine that has nothing in common with Skyactiv-X or Skyactiv-G.

Bolting in a V8 because "you need one for racing" makes no sense if you can't link it to something you have in brand.
Reminder: Racing Budgets almost universally (Toyotaaaaaa ) come from marketing budgets, if you can't tie whatever you're doing on the track to whatever you're doing on the road then they're gonna throw their arms up and yell.


Rotaries. Are. Dead.

an oddly awful oud posted:

something ultimately irrelevant like the new Acura NSX. But I would like it if it did!

The Acura NSX was irrelevant because Acura completely forgot everything that made the original NSX legendary and went in on tech (and price!) when they really didn't need to.


In their defence, iirc the W12 was designed with biofuel mixes in mind.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007





Schlesische posted:

Bolting in a V8 because "you need one for racing" makes no sense if you can't link it to something you have in brand.

Yeah, I agree, but it's striking me as funny that of the WEC teams from the recent past, the only two to connect the engine configuration to the road product were the Nissan GT-R LM and the Audi to an extent, though with Audi it was more focusing on the diesel aspect than it being a V6 or straight four or whatever. Toyota used first the V8 and then the turbo V6 because it made sense for the rules, and Porsche went with the V4 because Porsche.

Schlesische posted:

The Acura NSX was irrelevant because Acura completely forgot everything that made the original NSX legendary and went in on tech (and price!) when they really didn't need to.

...what made the original NSX legendary was the aluminum chassis technology, the high-revving VTEC engine, the audacity of the company what makes the Civic making a really good sports car, and also the first exotic supercar that was actually reliable.

so, that's not tech?

Mazda is awesome and I'm seriously considering the new Mazda Axela 3 hatch if I get a car soon, but it's such a shame they don't have a model that could even get even into GT4, which is probably the equivalent of where the FB RX-7 was back in the 1980s.

Big Huski Boi
Jun 28, 2007

Huski Chocolate is a lifestyle, not only a product. It's about adventure & expedition. Living life to the fullest. It's a perfect recovery drink after training, because of the healthy carbohydrate and protein content, easy to digest and perfect for replenishing tired muscles.

I was considering that Mazda 3 hatch but then they waited ages to announce any details and won't have the cool engine available until the fall

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drgitlin
Jul 25, 2003

Welcome to my ignore list, cretin. BAZINGA!


Have a couple of pieces up about Daytona, including this interview with Zanardi that people might enjoy: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/0...ace-at-daytona/

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