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Hed posted:This is the millennium of Aftermath Ants is actually Counterstrike, I was bluffing when I said CS was over  And the Ants actually had a lot of foreshadowing, but I never say them coming, because the game manual had all the flavor text talking about them... in morse code. Savvy game/code spelunkers allegedly knew about the bonus levels back in original Red Alert (and apparently the Theme Pack also contained Giant Ant goodies), but you couldn't access them until Counterstrike, and the help of yet another coded message. Edit: Oh, and Retaliation added the Carville cutscene. Non-Playstation Console players only got the Ant opening.
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Apr 9, 2019 13:05
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I remember getting stuck on the ant missions because I seem to remember the ants being INSANELY durable. Maybe I was just using the wrong weapons against them, or maybe the real rear end in a top hat ants are yet to come. 
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Apr 9, 2019 14:09
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That's right, GDI was created to fight GIANT ANTS.
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Apr 9, 2019 17:11
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thetruegentleman posted:That's right, GDI was created to fight GIANT ANTS. E D-wait wha?
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Apr 9, 2019 17:12
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GIANTANT DEFENSE INITIATIVE 
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Apr 9, 2019 17:36
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Ants! As you mention in the video, the worst thing about ants is that you need to babysit your Ore Trucks a lot more than usual and that's not really fun even under normal circumstances. I played on Hard as usual and faster and stronger ants are decidedly not nice, I restarted mission some 4-5 times before I could stop myself from losing my trucks or otherwise getting overwhelmed. Without a Construction Yard it's important you don't lose critical buildings which is tough since ants literally chew through their health in a flash, and even one Fire Ant can take out a Camo Pillbox 1-on-1 (at least on Hard) unless it gets repairs. The Mine Layer did serve me well though and was actually what helped me clear the mission, mines one-shot ants and they do usually take similar paths. Also, Carville's line about pissing on a spark plug is an obvious reference to Wargames. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FogV4Qv8p8
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Apr 9, 2019 20:33
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Kanfy posted:Ants! Yeah, siege-style missions are where the Allied Minelayer truly shines, and double so with melee range enemies. Having a bunch of mines by the Radar Dome when the treeline goes down can keep that section a lot more under control, and the choke-point at the south is another easy to mine spot, with the bonus of being near the Repair Depot for quick resupply.
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Apr 10, 2019 02:12
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I always just built a bunch of Rangers for this mission, and had them rove around to meet the ants. Worked well. Probably the only mission where I actually wanted to user Rangers!
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Apr 10, 2019 02:18
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I tried that too but Rangers cost 600 bucks each and even a group of five couldn't bring down ants fast enough not to get eaten, not on Hard at least. Spending that money on 6 infantrymen tended to be more efficient, the ants sometimes take a moment figuring out who to target and having a lot of guns meant they'd often go down before they'd get damage in. Mass infantry with minor vehicle backup ended up being my go-to strategy against the ant menace overall.
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Apr 10, 2019 09:11
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i just laid all the mines iirc so many loving mines
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Apr 10, 2019 09:26
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Classified! 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5JIs9B6wJ0 Classified! 2  Now that the cat's out of the bag, I can talk about Ants(!) I was blown away the first time I discovered that they were an actual thing, and, way back when, I didn't have the ability or know-how to not only look it up beforehand, but also to figure out ways to beat the mission(s). I don't ever recall even beating the first mission, much less the second, so going through them now has been yet another fun romp, akin to the bonus stuff from Tiberian Dawn.  The Counterstrike expansion was nice enough to include one last morse code transmission. quote:.... --- .-.. -.. -.. --- .-- -. - .... . .-.. . ..-. - It translates to quote:HOLD DOWN THE LEFT  Location: Unknown, Unknown Objective: Destroy the bridges in the area to isolate the ants, and evacuate the local civilian population. Briefing: Who would've believed it -- Giant Ants! Now that your MCV has arrived, we must evacuate the civilians in the area -- they don't stand a chance against these ants. There are two villages in your immediate area. Locate them and evacuate the civilians to the island in the northwest. You'll also have to take out all the bridges in this area to stop the ants from completely overrunning you. You must destroy the bridges, and evac at least one civilian from each town for the mission to be a success. Author's note: A nice map, with a return of the mechanic that preserves the forces from our previous mission. Challenging and, aside from Ore Truck snipes, fun.  N/A  N/A Briefing from Mission 1 posted:We've lost contact with one of our outposts. Before it went off-line, we received a brief communique about giant ants. We're unsure what to make of this report, so we want you to investigate. Scout the area, bring the outpost back online, and report your findings. If there is a threat, reinforcements will be sent in to help you. Keep the base functional and radio contact open -- we don't want to lose the outpost again.
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Apr 11, 2019 00:54
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Classic Game Post Mortem: Command & Conquer - GDC 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIXK3fRx4Zo
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Apr 11, 2019 04:50
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cuc posted:Classic Game Post Mortem: Command & Conquer - GDC 2018 That looks to be very much into spoiler territory... (No, I will not be watching it)
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Apr 11, 2019 11:36
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Love how Ant mission 2 is a continuation of the first map, with your base and units intact. That has been sadly incredibly underused in C&C so far, and it is such a cool concept. Oh well. Anyway, it is nice how you can deal with both main Ant mounds in quite different ways, and the game is quite generous with the number of civilians from each village. And yeah, even with Medium Tanks, Ants are not to be messed with. Not much else to say though, once both mounds are taken care of, it is pretty simple to just get some civilians up to the drop-off point and finish the mission. Interesting how the base walls are not saved though, and in fact seem to be neutral and unsellable, probably a scripting limit if I had to guess.
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Apr 11, 2019 12:30
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Jobbo_Fett posted:That looks to be very much into spoiler territory... (No, I will not be watching it)
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Apr 11, 2019 12:41
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radintorov posted:I've watched it and they talk specifically about the original C&C and what was behind its creation. As far as I can tell it's exclusively stuff that has already been covered in the previous LP thread. K, cool then, cause the thumbnail shows stuff thats like... 2 games away.
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Apr 11, 2019 12:49
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UED Special Ops posted:Love how Ant mission 2 is a continuation of the first map, with your base and units intact. That has been sadly incredibly underused in C&C so far, and it is such a cool concept. I think the reason they're sparing about using it is, firstly they want the campaign to keep moving around geographically. And secondly, I know from a few other games that have used it that it can occasionally lead to some weird dead-man-walking scenarios or make a following level trivial or impossible depending on your level of build-up. So it's much easier to design a playable game without that issue.
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Apr 11, 2019 12:57
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Yeah, I don't know why they went with a screenshot from RA2, it's strictly original C&C in the video.
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Apr 11, 2019 13:27
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PurpleXVI posted:I think the reason they're sparing about using it is, firstly they want the campaign to keep moving around geographically. And secondly, I know from a few other games that have used it that it can occasionally lead to some weird dead-man-walking scenarios or make a following level trivial or impossible depending on your level of build-up. So it's much easier to design a playable game without that issue. Makes sense, the amount of effort in trying to avoid those issues would make designing said levels far more difficult then usual.
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Apr 11, 2019 13:50
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Had a weird dream last night that Kane was holding some kind of press conference in a cheapo politburo office declaring that essentially the Soviet Union was now just straight up the Brotherhood of Nod, as a stern character who wouldn't be born for several more generations (later games) watched him on a GDI TV looking very concerned. Then I played a supposedly easy mission with a half-destroyed base and the rear end in a top hat AI killed my ore truck! This thread may have affected me in some fashion.
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Apr 11, 2019 14:24
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evilmiera posted:Had a weird dream last night that Kane was holding some kind of press conference in a cheapo politburo office declaring that essentially the Soviet Union was now just straight up the Brotherhood of Nod, as a stern character who wouldn't be born for several more generations (later games) watched him on a GDI TV looking very concerned. ..I'd buy it.
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Apr 11, 2019 16:24
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Dabir posted:Yeah, I don't know why they went with a screenshot from RA2, it's strictly original C&C in the video. Even better, it's a pre-release bullshot; the real RA2 doesn't actually look that crisp.
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Apr 11, 2019 18:26
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Apr 11, 2019 18:47
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You monster, don't think I didn't notice you abandoning that one civilian in the northern town (top right house on the left side of the town) Although, he did wear his green shirt and beige pants that day, so maybe it's his fault.
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Apr 11, 2019 18:55
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That fucker stole my lunch, he knew the risks!
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Apr 11, 2019 19:00
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*giant ants wreak havoc on civilian town* *commander orders loan straggling civilian to flee for his life towards the allied base* "Yeah? Ok."
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Apr 11, 2019 19:07
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thetruegentleman posted:..I'd buy it. I mean if somehow Kucan went and got the rights again and just decided to do a remake but it's the Soviet timeline/a prequel to the original C&C I would too?
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Apr 12, 2019 02:55
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Just make Tiberian Sun but more and more and more and more and more and moreandmoreandmoreandmoreandmoreandmore. Gonna feel like the longest wait of my life to get to that game 
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Apr 12, 2019 03:31
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Just make Tiberian Sun but more and more and more and more and more and moreandmoreandmoreandmoreandmoreandmore. It's such a good game
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Apr 12, 2019 03:33
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Strobe posted:It's such a good game Agreed, had so much fun playing and later rules.iniing it back in the day.
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Apr 12, 2019 05:21
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Definitely had an easier time than me with this mission, this was probably the toughest of the ant missions for me and took me about an hour. Trying to destroy those bridges was real tough since the ant flood was seemingly endless, not even tanks could take them out fast enough. Also Tiberian Sun I didn't play back in the day and well, it's not one of my favorites I guess. It's fine gameplay-wise but it feels very subdued in a way I didn't like much, the animations and sounds never feel quite as satisfying as in the games before and after it, the visuals are pretty dark and muddy and it also feels like everything has a little too much health or something. I'd never call it bad but it lacks the "punch" most other C&C games have. Well that's something to be discussed in the next thread rather than this one of course, I actually ended up dropping TS entirely before finishing it so it'll be as good an excuse to rectify that as any. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 09:02 on Apr 12, 2019 |
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Apr 12, 2019 08:58
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Classified! 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVkMOJGmntw Classified! 3 It seems that successful tests have already occurred, and a potential solution to the ant problem is ready for use against what appears to be the central area for this ant infestation. The specialists earmarked for the deployment of the gas are indispensable; protect them at all costs! [This space left intentionally blank.] Location: Unknown, Unknown Objective: Gas every ant nest in the area, and destroy all ants that make it out of them. Briefing: The source of the ant's activity has been pinpointed in this area. We suspect that their nests are in this area -- they must be destroyed. A team of civilian specialists are en-route to your location. Use them to gas all the ant nests in the area. In addition, destroy all ants that you encounter. Be careful -- these things can chew through anything. Good luck! Author's note: Little late on the warning about how deadly ants are, game! This map offers a rather tough start, but progresses nicely. N/A N/A
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Apr 13, 2019 01:49
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Never got to this mission as I never managed to clear the second mission as a kid, so interesting to see this! For the gas not working on the entrance, that might be that they can't have overlapping triggers, perhaps? The C&C1 maps looked to have only one trigger to a map tile, so I'm guessing it might be a similar story here, with the engine being mostly the same. It was pretty funny seeing that medium tank at full health park on the repair pad and seeing the other tanks drive under it to get repairs around 16:30
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Apr 13, 2019 10:50
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The reason for the trigger weirdness is that nests are not buildings. They are map doodads (that term wouldn't have existed back then, it originated in the Starcraft level editor, but everyone knows what I mean). Ant spawns are entirely accomplished with map triggers on timers. Presumably Westwood couldn't get the spawn triggers to turn off after a nest was gassed, so they rigged up a kill zone instead. (Also the combined tech tree and unit colour seems pretty clearly intended to recreate GDI from the previous game).
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Apr 13, 2019 11:22
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Yeah, this definitely looks like a mission where you need to take early action to stop the flow of ants or just face a death wall later. However, I wonder if you could use walls to "herd" ants toward the gassed nest near your base to help with the northern defense? In any case, very generous of Westwood to give you a fair number of civilian specialists, and even if you lost one at each nest, you would still have a few extra left over. And yeah, really getting a GDI feel from the unit set up here.
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Apr 13, 2019 13:07
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Classified! 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ace2b3zU4Lk Classified! 4 With the discovery of the abandoned Soviet base, Command believes that we may have found the source for the bug infestation. A strike team has been prepare to infiltrate the nest and eliminate the Queen's lair. [This space left intentionally blank.] Location: Unknown, Unknown Objective: Kill anything that isn't human! Briefing: We've discovered a series of tunnels underneath the ruined base. Now that we've cut off their escape routes, the ants have nowhere left to run to. Perform a sweep and clear of all the tunnels, and find the cause of these abominations. Destroy anything that isn't human! The power to the tunnel lights has been knocked out, which will limit visibility. Find the generator controls, and you can re-activate the lights. Author's note: I've never been a fan of the "Lights Out!" gimmick, mostly because it forces backtracking in an already difficult level, and is generally just more time-consuming rather than interesting. N/A N/A
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Apr 14, 2019 20:10
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Location: Unknown, Unknown
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Apr 14, 2019 20:35
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It totally said "Stavros" on the mouse-over
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Apr 14, 2019 20:35
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That "lights out" effect is worthy of mention. Y'see, one criticism leveled at the original C&C by reviewers and fans alike was that once a base was scouted, it was permanently scouted and open to attack and superweapon deployment. This was in contrast to the Warcraft titles (and the flood of C&C clones now streaming out onto the market, mostly to be forgotten), where you had fog of war that grew back if it wasn't directly in a unit's line of sight. Westwood weren't terribly keen on that (and they'd go on the record about it in previews for their next game), and their approach was to weaponise this with the Gap Generator units, turning it into a specific faction advantage. But to cater to their fans they did provide a "shroud regrows" option for Red Alert multiplayer games. Setting it makes the fog of war steadily grow back.This is the only time it's ever used in single-player, and you can instantly see why.
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Apr 14, 2019 21:03
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Loxbourne posted:That "lights out" effect is worthy of mention. Y'see, one criticism leveled at the original C&C by reviewers and fans alike was that once a base was scouted, it was permanently scouted and open to attack and superweapon deployment. This was in contrast to the Warcraft titles (and the flood of C&C clones now streaming out onto the market, mostly to be forgotten), where you had fog of war that grew back if it wasn't directly in a unit's line of sight. I wouldn't have an issue with it if it wasn't a "Kill everything" map where going down the wrong fork added 5 minutes of game time. The only other problem is that you're really handicapped by what units you have, thanks to the explosive nature of some/most of them, and the ants' ability to destroy them mercilessly.
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Apr 14, 2019 21:46
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