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Yeeesss, Red Alert 1 was THE C&C game of my childhood. You just know you are in for a good time when the very first FMV starts with Einstein "eliminating" Hitler via time travel. Anyway, onward to Allied 1, which is an incredibly well done intro level. Just everything about it is excellently done. Getting rushed by a few infantry that are easily cut down throws you into the action right away, but in a more controlled manner then C&C1, and you get to use Tanya right away, who is flat out better then the C&C commando unit-wise, especially with the whole C-4ing buildings not spawning infantry. Such a quality of life improvement. Anyway, as for the mission itself, the civilian that runs down into the Tesla Coil is such a nice touch. Shows exactly what those do and how deadly they are. Then as soon as the power is down a second civilian runs down safely, showing the power is off. Not having to guess and risking losing a unit is so incredibly nice. And of course, ending the map with Allied Cruisers leveling the Soviet base makes sure the map ends on a high note. HannibalBarca posted:For the life of me, I have never been able to figure out what year this game thinks it's taking place in. There is an exact answer for this, but kinda spoilers. Suffice to say Stalin is still alive and well, so that will narrow the range down somewhat. UED Special Ops fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jan 13, 2019 |
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Jan 13, 2019 02:34
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Jobbo_Fett posted:
GDI is all over the place in this new timeline it seems.  Now, before we get to the mission, I absolutely love Red Alert 1's map theme. Not really sure why, but it has always stuck with me all these years. Just a nice mix of moody and slightly sinister. Also like how the map itself is less detailed then in TD, really helps set the theme that this is set in an earlier time period. As for mission 2, it is a great showcase of how to build a base, the game even deploys the MCV for you if you don't interrupt it. The handful of Soviet attacks are easily cut down by your units and reinforcements are incredibly generous. The Soviet base is quite weak and easily overrun, no having to slug through defenses this time. Oh, and of course your economy is far better then in TD, no waiting for a trickle of credits. Pretty much everything in this game has a quality of life improvement, build range, economy, the timer ending as soon as the map is cleared, its amazing how much better this game is about things. As for unit improvements, you are 100% right, the Rifleman is much better then the TD Minigunner. The Rifleman has 3 range in this game vs TD's 2, and now also boasts 4 vision vs the 1 for the poor Minigunner. Plus it's base build time is now only 3 seconds vs 7, so you can pump them out incredibly quickly. As for the Pillbox, it is an amazingly better base defense then the Guard Tower. The Pillbox has 400 HP vs 200 for the Guard Tower, costs 100 credits less and deals 40 SA damage vs 20 HE for the Tower. The Pillbox also has a shorter cooldown by 10 and most importantly, 5 attack range vs the Guard Tower's 4, so it can actually shoot things in this game. The only negative is taking slightly more power but for everything else, the Pillbox is far better. So yeah, great second mission that teaches you the basics of base building, with plenty of ore and more then enough troops reinforcing to easily clear the map. UED Special Ops fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 02:42
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Ok so that text briefing? You have to manually click on it. Otherwise, you, the player, would never know about it. So yeah, I'm editing in the text briefing (if different from start) so that it isn't forgotten and because sometimes there's hints or interesting stuff. Oh, huh, well then. It has been an incredibly long time since I last played, and must have forgotten that extra briefing text doesn't come up automatically. Will amend my post accordingly. Whoops. 
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Jan 15, 2019 03:57
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Jobbo_Fett posted:It does for some missions, so you're half right! Yeah, that was what I was remembering.
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Jan 15, 2019 04:00
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Fangz posted:Does the Red Alert franchise ever explain wtf 'ore' is? Pretty sure that 'ore' is just various valuable minerals that are useful for the ongoing war effort. It is probably a gameplay convention more then anything else, but it would be safe to consider it as deposits of copper, iron, etc. But no, I don't think the game ever goes in depth about ore. As for timeline stuff, I think that there is a rough timetable for it, but I am not sure if it is shown in-game. UED Special Ops fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jan 15, 2019 |
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Jan 15, 2019 14:07
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Slaan posted:Yeah, but I hated the sound effects that went with it. "You need more vespene gas" and "build more pylons" will haunt my dreams Nah, its' "You must construct additional Pylons." That phrase is something one will never forget, burned into memory forever.
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Jan 16, 2019 01:20
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The A version of Allied 3 is another very solid level and is a great intro to "commando" style levels for the game. Tons of nice touches on this map, like the captured friendlies surrounded by explosive barrels. If you don't have good unit control say goodbye to them as they go up in flames, although at least usually some Soviets also will be taken out as well. Fortunately, as shown via the Rules.ini, Tanya is incredible stat-wise. 100 HP is crazy for an infantry unit, for comparison, the TD Commando had 80 HP, so yeah, Tanya wrecks everything that is not a Tank or anti-infantry defense pretty much. Also back is the "good" old Artillery, only now it can actually move worth a drat. Looking at a stat comparison, the only other differences between the TD and RA1 Artillery is the RA1 version having 1 extra sight and a slightly higher cost. Weirdly, it looks like RA1 and TD use difference speed calculations, so comparing unit speed between the two games is kinda difficult. Anyway, enough unit chat. As for the map, it is simple but has a good flow of things, with a few surprises tossed in, like landing extra enemy infantry on the shore, and the super rude missile unit near the end. Also to note, as shown in this map, you can destroy bridges now, unlike in TD. Besides that, not much else to say, it is a good map and a great way to show off Tanya's skills. Oh, and poor Soviet car driver at the end of the map, ouch. Glad to hear the whole Allied campaign is finished, really looking forward to a certain late mission that had young me stuck for a super long time.
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Jan 17, 2019 03:25
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Thotimx posted:This is a good mission for pointing out what I was referring to vis a vis barrels - I think they are arguably the weakest point of design. The majority of this level is just 'blow up a barrel and watch the explosions kill a crapton of stuff'. Once in a while this can be a useful thing for giving a better/alternate path of doing something, but I think it's really excessive and cheesy here. I agree that in most ways RA is better than its predecessor - but this is an area where there's definitely regression. Hmm, kinda, but the barrels in this level were mostly traps though. Blowing up the first set would kill a friendly Medic and only kill a single Soviet Rifleman. The second would take out another Medic and an Engi in exchange for a few Riflemen, not exactly a good trade. That, and up until now barrels have all had positive results and now it is showing that just blowing them up may have negative consequences. I do grant that they were kinda excessive on this level, but I think it was mainly to try to temp the player to blow them up without realizing friendlies were mixed in there. Will have to wait and see the rest of the missions to see how Westwood uses them I guess.
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Jan 17, 2019 10:36
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I think that the best part of the barrels in RA1 is the sound they make when going up. There is something deeply satisfying hearing that explosion noise chain a couple of dozen times in half a second, or watching it snake down to a hapless base/group of units. Mhh... 
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Jan 17, 2019 14:04
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:There were some programs back in the day that made rules.ini fuckery incredibly easy for anything upto RA2:YR. Younger me had a ton of fun messing around in RA1 and TS:FS with this. Yeah, I remember back in the day playing some utterly bizarre TS maps online with numerous custom units and buildings and being amazed at them. Good times.
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Jan 18, 2019 01:53
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From the way I saw the mission, the center base is implied to be a fuel dump, as there are multiple Oil Derrick's just to its' east. With a whole column of tanks en route, Tanya caught the Soviets at a perfect moment to cause maximum chaos, hence why there are so many fuel barrels scattered around.
UED Special Ops fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Jan 18, 2019 |
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Jan 18, 2019 12:05
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Poil posted:You can give dogs the attack of cruisers. When infantry gets within cruiser range the dog makes a loud boom sound and transforms into a glowing projectile flying across the map until it hits the poor guy and plays the normal dog eating man animation. Ahh the magic of Rules.ini. Its kinda amazing how well the game handles bizarre interactions like that, and makes me wish I had played around more with changing unit attacks and whatnot.
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Jan 18, 2019 15:56
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Plek posted:Explosive barrels are a proud gaming tradition and I'll not tolerate this besmirchment of their noble emplacement. Yeah, Rangers are pretty bad, will go into detail about their stats when they actually show up as a buildable unit to avoid spoilers though.
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Jan 19, 2019 01:59
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Allied Mission 4 is a very solid mission, with the twist of actually using the base from Mission 2 again on a now larger map. As stated in the video, the units and buildings from that mission are all there, so you can definitely put in some prepwork there to make this mission easier. Ore is super plentiful and has fully regrown, re-ored? Whatever, the ore is fully back, so no worries of being mined out at the start. Now, as for units, the Light Tank is more expensive then its TD counterpart, but has better sight and a faster cooldown. I found that they work best in a mixed group with Infantry, as if you can get a Heavy Tank to focus on your infantry, the Light Tanks can rapidly chip away at their health. Rangers, on the other hand, are mostly trash. They have a better cooldown and sight range then the TD HUMVEE, but 600 credits base cost is insane for what you get. Might as well scout with a Light Tank for only 100 more. Shame that you didn't find much use for Mine Layers. While I do admit that they take a high amount of mirco, their mines are just so incredibly powerful. Taking out 75% of a Heavy Tanks' HP in a single mine is pretty nice, and a hidden bonus is that the AI doesn't go nuts if a Ore Truck hits one, which was shown in the video. Plus, I think it only takes 2 mines to kill a full HP Ore Truck, so scattering a handful of mines in an ore field will quickly pay off. As for your Ore Trucks not mining, yeah, I remember that happening sometimes as well. No clue as to why, but it can be annoying to flat out deadly when your eco suddenly flatlines for a while. In all though, Mission 4 is a nice real introduction to full on base building and actually taking on an enemy base that fights back. You absolute madman. Beautiful.
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Jan 19, 2019 06:14
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Poil posted:If you do something silly like selling your entire base at the end of mission 2, or at the start for an extra challenge, it's going to make mission 4 kinda impossible. Actually, it seems that there is a safeguard for selling everything in mission 2, as I doubt that Westwood would let you set up a dead man walking situation so early in the game. Mr.Flibble posted:The ps1 version of this game uses passwords instead of saves so for this mission you only start out with a constriction yard ,a power plant, and a barracks for your buildings and a mine layer , 1 rifleman and 1 ranger, So if I had to guess this bare minimum base would be given to you if you sold everything and somehow killed off every unit but one.
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Jan 20, 2019 02:26
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Allied 5 is a very good mission, and probably one of the more memorable ones. Dividing it up into a sneaking part and then a build up and destroy part is pretty unique, and creates a good mission flow. This version of the map has tons of ore and the base you take over is fairly defenseable. It is also quite easy to snipe the Soviet Ore Miner once you have a fair few Heavy Tanks, which can quickly cripple their base. And of course, having the AI sell up and go into All to Hunt mode as soon as they lose key buildings makes finishing the mission a breeze vs the slow grind down of TD. So yeah, all in all, a very solid mission that lets you have a taste of the Soviet arsenal and its strengths and weaknesses. As for Heavy vs Medium Tanks, yeah, they are surprisingly balanced, as stated in the video. They do in fact have exactly the same HP, sight/range, and even damage, with the Heavy Tank of course having two shots, but the Medium Tank having better cooldown, lower cost, and slightly better speed. This all makes them very close in overall power, and pretty much comes down to numbers and mirco in fights between groups of them. Hence there is really no reason at all to build Light Tanks once you have access to Mediums, which is a shame, as if the Light Tank was cheaper they might be a viable option, but as is, they just become worthless incredibly quickly for all but armored scouting. Oh, and don't think that we missed you committing war crimes on this map. We are the good guys here, and there will be plenty of that stuff for the Soviets. 
UED Special Ops fucked around with this message at 02:55 on Jan 21, 2019 |
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Jan 21, 2019 02:51
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Yeah, looking at the Light Tank's stats, it actually only does 5 less damage then a Medium Tank and has 10 less cooldown. However, it also has almost 1 less range then a Heavy/Medium Tank, which is probably its' biggest weakness, never being able to first strike vs a Heavy Tank. So, even with its really good DPS, always taking a hit first unless another unit distracts really hurts em. Still, I was surprised at how not horrible the Light Tank was stat-wise though, always just treated them as worthless back in the day.Jobbo_Fett posted:My spies informed me that the Interrogator lived there... Hmm, OK, fair enough... this time...
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Jan 21, 2019 05:49
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Mhh, true, Red Alert units have so far been shown to be far speeder then anything in TD, which makes the whole travel time of shots even more of a big deal. Would take AI levels of micro though to pull off, and with this old pathfinding... Hmm, maybe this is why infantry feel a lot better then in TS, that extra range and instant hit speed on attacks, for rifle infantry anyway, adds up pretty quickly. And yeah, looking forward to seeing Tesla Coils again, those sure were "fun" to face.
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Jan 21, 2019 06:35
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nielsm posted:Yes I think in multiplayer both factions can train dogs, like both can get Tanyas. Actually, I am sure that in the original game at least, Attack Dogs were Soviet only in both single and multiplayer. Not sure if that was changed/bugged/whatever with the various online versions of the game though.
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Jan 21, 2019 15:34
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Yeah, Allied 6 is definitely where the gloves come off and the AI actually kicks into gear against you. I remember taking hours on this map, slowly building up a massive attack force to land on the Soviet base all the while enduring the tank landings and endless Yak harassment. Anyway, I really like the start of this version of the map, you are presented with ore right off the bat, but it quickly becomes obvious that there is next to no room to build. Moving north and clearing the defenses shows little nearby ore, but a lightly guarded Soviet base to the east with tons of ore to the south can be taken over and serves as a great place to set up shop. All in all, great opening design there, and I think that the Soviet base at the top of the map doesn't really activate until you deploy your Construction Yard, so there isn't a major time pressure at the start. I don't remember the off-map Yak attacks, but it has been forever since I played, so they might have been there in the original. Same with the Mammoth Tanks. I do remember the endless off map tank drop-offs though, those were always annoying to deal with, and I also remember the AI spamming Yaks to keep attacking your base from the north. Thankfully, there is an incredible amount of ore on your island, although the ore patches are also prime landing points for Soviet tanks, so putting some guards there is a good idea. Luckily, the power plants near the shore let you power down the Tesla Coils by the landing beach, and with enough Medium Tanks, you can then overrun the Soviet base pretty easily. So yeah, this is a pretty fun map that also gives you a taste of navel combat for the first time, which was new to C&C at the time. And speaking of navel units... The Gunboat really isn't that great. Short range and fragile, it really has to use its' speed to reduce the damage coming in, as they can go down to just two or three torpedoes. Their deck gun just doesn't really cut it, and takes forever to kill anything, while it's depth charge launcher's range is pretty bad, although it being automatic does help. Still, once anything better comes along, there is zero reason to build these. Oh, and as for the Navel Yard having extended build range, that is the norm, as since it can only be build in water, Westwood kinda gave the player some slack in build distance so you didn't have to get super close to the shore to build one.
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Jan 23, 2019 04:00
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Yeah but the range is crazy, higher than the sub pen for sure! Huh, thought that the Sub Pen and Navel Yard had the exact same extended build range. Weird. Then it must be something with this version of the game then, as I am pretty sure there was no build range difference between them.
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Jan 23, 2019 04:35
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cuc posted:I deeply regret inadvertently contributing to the air of fuzzy childhood memory-based paranoia in this thread. Umm, might want to edit your post there, one of those things have not been shown off yet. Jobbo_Fett posted:Oh and you know things are going well when a mission's end trigger / objectives won't activate Looks like the Iron Curtain is even more powerful then we thought, it can now make mission end triggers invincible!
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Jan 24, 2019 04:04
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, AND to Westwood's own games (i.e. the two Dune sequels and RA2 not included). Unlike Blizzard's engines, where everything is crystal clear - units have explicit stats, the team colors never lie about which side a unit is on, etc., the TD engine's scripting capabilities create a huge amount of mystery and uncertainty: units may enter from the darkness off the map, what color a unit wears do not indicate their true allegiance, one .ini parameter edit can turn a cannon fodder technician into a killing machine, new things have a not-100% probability to spawn from your actions (from mundane soldiers, to 
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Always kinda felt that this was a bit of a filler mission, but it does provide a good challenge at least, and is a great stomping ground for Destroyers. The mission itself is well set up though, the naval landing arriving just to late to save the three random green friendly troops is an exciting start, and while you do start with low amounts of funds, there is an incredible amount of ore on the map to work with. This, out of the many things RA improved over TD, is probably the most noticeable, you actually have resources to harvest, and it takes forever to empty ore patches. Don't remember the AI being as aggressive with air drops in this mission though, especially the double Badger Bombers flying around. Have a feeling that is from the slight changes from this version of the game. Still, besides the air aggression, the Soviets are actually pretty passive and you are given time to get your economy up and running, although enemy transports dropping off tanks early on can be a surprise. Back when I played this mission, I pretty much just spammed a dozen Destroyers after killing off all the Soviet Ore Trucks and slowly bombarded the base from the sea. The mission is nice in that it is laid out so that you can pretty much take out most of the northern part of the base from the sea, but if you want to turn off the Tesla Coils by the Sub Pens, a land assault on the southern power base is needed. And speaking of power, yeah, I had forgotten how power hungry everything is in RA vs TD, where you could coast on just having a few Power Plants. Especially for base defenses, those are just incredible power drains. So, yeah, a kinda forgettable mission, but at least one that has a nice mix of land and sea action and a pretty solid challenge to boot.
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Jan 25, 2019 04:15
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Huh, thought that this mission was slightly later, but here we are, the Chronosphere Defense. This is probably the 2nd most notable mission to me in the Allied campaign(the most notable, oh I have words for that one) and is a fantastic defense mission. It is incredibly well done for the time and has quite a few twists to how things work. First off, the mission starts off strong. The Soviets hitting your power right off the bat with Badger Bomber para-bombs puts a power crunch on your base and slows down your infantry production for defense. However, I am pretty sure that the Soviet base doesn't come online until you deploy your Command Center, but the landers and airstrikes happen regardless of if the Soviet base is on, so you have a soft timer to get to the base before Heavy and later Mammoth Tanks get dropped off and crush your infantry. Fighting past the Soviet blockade is pretty tough, but all you really need is your Mine Layers and MCV, or whatever it is called in RA, to get past. However, either you got incredibly lucky with the Para-Bomb strike or something is different in this version of RA, as I remember most of the base's power plants getting knocked out, not just one. Weird. Anyway, once you are up and running, having to keep the lights on at the end of timer is a nice twist to the bog standard wait out the timer mission-type, and means you need to actively keep your base well defended all the way though. You have an insane amount of starting cash and tons of ore, so getting several Ore Trucks out and mining is a good idea. The four places where the Soviets can attack keep you on your toes, especially the western entrance, which you can easily forget about until some Flame Throwers and Heavy Tanks are wiping out your power. This is where the Mine Layer comes into its own. When I played this map, I was constantly mining every pass into the base, with multiple Mine Layers always moving around, and as shown in the mission, this can pay off big time, as three mines can bring a Mammoth Tank down to a next to no health. Plus taking out V2s before they get in range is always nice. And as an added bonus, the Mine Layer I am pretty sure has an insanely low threat priority to the AI, so they just tend to ignore it if anything else of yours is nearby. No idea what is up with that Radar Dome though. I was never able to figure that one out. Now, since it was talked about in the video, I'll clear up a few things with the Chronosphere. It can in fact transport ships, but only another body of water is a valid target destination and the game won't let you drop it off on land. Same goes for vehicles, no dropping them in water or trees/cliffs. You can target and move a APC filled with infantry but... well, just remember what Einstein said about crew loss on the transported ship... As for not letting the player play with the Chronosphere, its mainly a plot thing. They are working on making the crew loss problem less of an issue, so it would be kinda a bad idea for them to just use it in the battle. That, and there is pretty much nothing for the player to do with it anyway on this mission. With that all said, I think I know why that Badger Bomber was doing loops at the end. It was probably trying to drop of infantry at the spot you build two power plants at, and since that would be an invalid spot for them, it got stuck endlessly trying and failing to drop the troops off. And as a small but very nice touch, when the timer drops to two minutes, it turns red, making sure the player knows that time is almost up. And as for Stavros, poor guy seems to only have two emotions, stunned, near catatonic silence, and sudden rage. Didn't remember him being such a non character like that. So yeah, this was a great mission that has very smooth pacing and a few twists to the standard defense mission formula. Good work RA, you made a defense mission exciting.
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Jan 26, 2019 08:31
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Crazy Achmed posted:Does anyone know if the AI actually cares about gap generators/fog of war at all? As far as I know, the AI really doesn't care too much about either. It knows pretty much exactly where all of your units are at all times so you can't really hide what you are building/training under a Gap Generator. However, it still needs to actually see the unit/building to fire on it, so they might prevent the AI from just firing V2s from max range if their target was covered by a Gap Generator shroud. Not 100% sure on that one though.
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Jan 26, 2019 14:18
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DeathChicken posted:Nikos is great. That's a pretty good reaction to your coworkers pulling off the Philadelphia Experiment and then being like "Anyway on to stuff" Yeah, Von Esling really doesn't get phased much by anything and is almost the polar opposite of Stavros. Soviets invade and almost all of Greece and Germany has been taken and he is all "Well you stopped a tank convoy, so good show there." The Soviets are working on a device to make something invincible, "Huh, we don't know if it is on-line yet, but lets go smash it commander." Nothing ever more then slightly surprises this guy.
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Jan 27, 2019 12:11
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Hmm, never really thought of the disconnect between Einstein at the intro of the game, and how he acts in the cutscenes after. Heck, even when you control him on the battlefield in mission 1 for all of 30 seconds, he still sounds non-serious. Furthermore, if Einstein has all of his memories from both our timeline and the RA one, that raises even more questions that I doubt Westwood really thought of. But yeah, I took it as him being laser focused on science to defeat the Soviets, given that this whole new WW2, or whatever it will be called, happened because of his changing the past and killing Hitler before his rise to power. And if he has this knowledge, well, being a bit detached from the human element of things would make some sense.
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Jan 27, 2019 14:15
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Well, maybe the whole issue is up-scaling and intent. The Chronosphere that can transport units is quite different then what Einstein used to time assassinate Hitler. Heck, maybe with the timeline changed, the device used to time travel might have just also disappeared as it would not have been built in a Hitlerless timeline. In any case, the experiments being done in the mission was to make it safe (or at least safer) to transport larger things and keep the crews from disappearing/being fused into the vehicle/boat. And you can use the Chronosphere on ships.
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Jan 27, 2019 15:29
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Really? I thought Jobbo said you can't. Maybe he just said they can't be transported to land and I misunderstood. Yeah, since he was talking about about what the in-game Chronosphere does, he wasn't sure about boats being transported, but they can be. I have some other things to say about the Chronosphere but will wait until we see it in action first, as I would be getting deep into spoiler territory then.
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Jan 27, 2019 16:01
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A nice breather mission after the last one that is more for plot then anything else. But speaking of plot, is nice seeing that the Soviet's assault has now crumbled, and besides the pocket in Germany, they have more or less fallen back to their boarders. Hopefully this will mean that Stavros will finally will snap out of his almost campaign spanning state of continuous shock. Anyway, the mission itself is pretty simple, provided that you don't wake up the Soviet base. From the video, it looks like the base either wakes up if you land a non-spy up north or if you destroy a building maybe. In either case, it is fully possible to beat this mission without really needing to build up much of an army or navy, although will the massive amounts of ore on your island, you can really do whatever you want more or less. Although if the Soviet base wakes up, it does seem to be pretty nasty on the attack. Not sure what causes the Guard Dogs to move away from the entrance like that, wonder if it was moving a spy near the east gate? In any case, getting the spy in isn't too hard, and getting Kosygin out is super simple with twin Cruiser support. The game could have indicated a bit better that Kosygin more or less acts like a spy that can't infiltrate, but not even sure how they could have gone about that honestly. So yeah, more of a plot mission then anything, but getting to actually use Cruisers, even if more a few minutes, if always fun, and having a bit of a break after last mission is a smart move.
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Jan 28, 2019 04:05
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Heh, actually had just run through Generals and Zero Hour again, and yeah, agreed about how it felt at times. Still really fun though. And from what I have read of Generals 2, that game sounded like it would have been really interesting, sigh...
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Jan 29, 2019 02:09
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Oh boy, missions 10 and 11. These two missions stonewalled me for months before I got past them way back and I have been looking forward to seeing them again after all this time. Honestly, looking back, mission 10 really isn't as nasty as I remember it being, but then again, I always set up shop right near the mission start point, so I had to grind through the whole Soviet base without sniping their Ore Trucks and quickly had money issues due to the distance to the ore fields. Setting up right at their gates like that was pretty impressive I have to say. Luckily, once again, the map is stuffed with ore and some gems, so money really isn't a issue as long as you move out from the start point, although this does cut both ways, and if you don't snipe the Soviet Ore Trucks, good luck grinding them down. Now, as for the timer trigger, Westwood set up five triggers to start it: * If a unit comes close to the Soviet Command Center * If either the Soviet Command Center or a Missile Silo takes damage * If the Soviet base is powered down * The base's Construction Yard is destroyed * The mission progresses longer than 30 minutes That is a pretty impressive list there, and pretty much means that no matter what you do, that timer will be starting up sooner then you expect. However, they do give you an hour on it, but since this timer carries over to the next mission, you can easily get into a Dead Man Walking situation, which is what kept happening to me, as I'd take far to long to finish up the map and have like 20ish minutes if I was lucky on the next one. Not too much to say on the map design, if you set up shop too early, you really get money screwed, but heading north or east will give you more then enough to finish the map. Each potential base location can be fine, with where you set up mainly determining where you have to put AA Guns to deal with the Yaks and Hinds. The Soviet base is actually kinda flimsy when it comes to defense, and a small force of Longbows can easily missile down the whole southern part of the base, well outside the range of SAM Sites. Plus, if you want to just avoid the base altogether, you can sneak around from the east into the back of the Command Center, although there is a nastily placed Tesla Coil on a cliff to watch out for. Now, as for mission 11, this is a very well made no production mission, and uses a very unique tileset, which is nice. The big thing is going south first instead of north, and getting to this map with enough time. While this of course makes sense from a plot perspective, this does lead to the classic Dead Man Walking issue if you go too slow on the last mission. Besides the time issue, the map is fine. Using one of your spies to scout while hoping not to run into a Attack Dog makes for a nice risk/reward dynamic, and you are given three engies, which gives a fair amount of leeway on a mission critical unit. Finding Tanya is super critical for this mission though, and it is kinda mean how you have to go down into the tank bay to trigger her showing up. There is no indication that the tanks there won't just attack you, so if they had been in a different color or soemthing, that would have helped things. Still, once you do get Tanya, the only danger becomes the various blind corners on the map, and the Attack Dogs roaming around. While they do seem to favor going after your spies, their ability to one-shot Tanya always makes them a threat. As for the technicians, only thing I can think for them is that one tends to be hanging around in one of the nuclear control rooms, so maybe that is supposed to be a clue you are near a control panel? Not really sure on that one. Anyway, always nice to see the bane of my Allied playthrough taken down like that.
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Jan 29, 2019 06:59
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Crazy Achmed posted:Oh, also I'm fairly sure that the note about the enemy technicians is that they are scripted to run to and from the computers you need to find, so if you are lost in those mazelike corridors you can just follow them around to find your objectives. Huh, that makes sense about the Technicians. And, yeah, I love how smoothly it goes from mission 10 to 11, with a nice almost humorous mini-cutscene of waiting in the elevator as some calming music plays in the background. Heck, even in most modern games you don't get as smooth of a transition during a level or whatever. Plus I love how when riding high with victory near you suddenly see all four silos launch at once followed by "nuclear launch detected."
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Jan 29, 2019 10:46
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Alhazred posted:Yeah, these missions is the reason why I only completed the Soviet part of Red Alert. I mean, who the gently caress places flamethrowers and nuclear bombs in the same loving building? Well, to be fair, it was only the control center for the nukes, I don't think that the actual warheads were stored in the area your troops run through. Although, thinking about it, where on Earth did all those Mammoth and Heavy Tanks come from if the area the mission takes place in is multiple stories underground? Now, who thought having calming elevator music in the main control center of a base called The Dark Horsemen would sensible on the other hand...
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Jan 29, 2019 16:53
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Loxbourne posted:Funny fact - you come down the elevator in the centre of all four nuclear control terminals. Each terminal has an octagon shaped area near it with radiation warnings. And if you look at the original map and the layout of the Soviet base when the GPS launches, you'll see the four silos are laid out around the command centre in the same shape. I think the tunnels are meant to be the underground portion of the Soviet base your men and tanks just overrun on the last level. The control terminals are "under" each missile silo, or as close as the map designers could get them. Huh, never noticed that, but yeah, looking at a map of mission 10 and 11, and things do kinda match up fairly well with the silos up above with only the lower right control center being a tad off. Still, gives me a new perceptive of this map though, and also explains the tank bay, neat!
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Jan 30, 2019 01:41
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Wow, umm, that sure is a strategy guide all right. Based on that map alone, I'd like to see some more "info" from it, would love to see the stats of some units and compare them to the actual numbers. However, I noticed that the guide is missing any info on the health of the unit, but guess having "Combat Readiness" is a far more of an important stat, surely. Seeing strategies for a mission or two would also be cool.
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Jan 30, 2019 08:14
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Real dogs attacking cyborgs, nice. Wonder how a dog would stiff out a cyborg spy though? And wow, the old windows resolution looks giant compared to DOS.
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Jan 31, 2019 02:22
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Well, Esling sure seems to be in a good mood after the last mission. As for this one, it is a pretty solid mission only really let down by the long wait at the end. Having two hours to clear the way for the convoy is more then enough, and the Soviets honestly don't present much of a challenge on land. The base north of your start is fairly passive, and really only sends small groups of Mammoths and V2s, along side the harassment of Yaks, but by now you should be more then capable of dealing with such lax aggression. Having two MCVs at the start really help get your base up and running, but the smarter thing to do is save the second one to get across the river, as there is tons of ore there, vs the only modest amounts around your start. However, you do start with almost 15k, so money should not be too much of an issue for a while. Speaking of that, the entire Soviet ore supply is shielded by cliffs, making hunting their Ore Truck all but impossible for ground units. Combine that with a very strong ground defense, and attacking the base head on would be costly. However, the base as zero anti-air defenses, which are all either on the center Tesla Coil island, or around the power base up north. So if you build around a dozen or so Longbows, you can easily wipe out the entire southern part of the Soviet base with only Mammoth Tanks being able to do something about it, and they will quickly fall to massed Longbows. Once the whole southern part of the Soviet base is cleaned up, sending in tanks or engies to finish off the rest is a cakewalk. Oh, and I agree that it was probably an oversight that you can send land units like that up to the power base, oops. Clearing the river is pretty simple all told, the subs are scattered into small packs, with only Tesla Island being a danger. However, taking down the power base up at the top of the map deals with it nicely, and taking down the power base can be done in multiple ways. Heck, if you want, just send your massed Longbows to bring down the Sam Sites on the island, and then wipe the Tesla Coils out from the air. Now as for the eastern base, that base does become active, but it takes a very long time for it to do so. This means that if you get a dozen or so Medium Tanks over there, you can wipe out the Mammoths and dogs, and then capture or destroy the base with ease. It would have been nice if there was a flare or something by the southern beach of the eastern side of the river, to indicate that you might want to build a second base over there, as there is tons of ore and a weak Soviet defense. Oh well. While it is nice that the timer ends early if every single Soviet unit and building is destroyed, the incredibly slow speed of the convoy basically means you just have to sit around and wait for 5 minutes as it slowly trundles up the river. While setting the game speed to max helps deal with this, it still is a long time to wait unfortunately. A small blemish on an otherwise solid mission. Now, as for the Spy, since it was brought up, here are all the things that happen if you get a Spy into various buildings: Construction Yard, Barracks, War Factory, Naval Yard: Displays current unit being produced when the building is selected Submarine Pen: Displays current unit being produced when the building is selected and grants sonar pulse Helipad: Displays current unit being produced when the building is selected and displays amount of ammunition on currently landed aircraft Airfield Displays current unit being produced when the building is selected and displays amount of ammunition on currently landed aircraft and grants Parabombs Power Plant/Advanced Power Plant: Displays a five-box vertical indicator of enemy power status Ore Refinery/Silo: Displays capacity indicator and amount of presently held ore Supply Depot: Nothing Radar dome Grants access to "spy info" radar screen (number of vehicles, aircraft, infantry and buildings owned by the infiltrated player) So yeah, while sending a spy into various buildings is helpful, for most you have to click on it to get more info, which kinda limits how useful they are. However, the Subpen and Airfield bonus are very nice, so they are probably be worth it. Anyway, all in all a pretty nice mission, minus the wait at the end. UED Special Ops fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jan 31, 2019 |
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Jan 31, 2019 04:38
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Aces High posted:I have had this game for 20 years...and I never knew about this Yeah, against the AI they almost always have dogs in their base, which makes getting any of those bonus tricky, and as seen in the campaign, Parabombs are pale shades of the A-10 Strike from TS. Least the AI seems to not be tricked by the whole upper left unit/building anymore though.
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Jan 31, 2019 05:34
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Plek posted:Artillery is good for shooting over walls and such. If you notice when you were taking out that first tesla, a lot of your shots had to go through the walls first. The artillery ignores that if I remember right. Whether that's worth bothering with them... eh. I thought they also did heavy damage to buildings but I don't know if I am misremembering. Allied Artillery does 150 HE damage at a range of 6. So, if I remember right, HE damage is very effective vs the armor types of none (infantry) and wood (most buildings), so they are pretty damaging to buildings. However, they would need help vs Tesla Coils, which have greater range then them, not to mention of course the huge number of guard units. Hence why using Longbows would ruin both Soviet bases, only Mammoths can shoot back at them, and poorly at that, and Longbows have surprisingly beefy health and heavy armor, which is resistant against Mammoth Tusk Missiles. Loved using them en mass to just melt everything.
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Jan 31, 2019 10:09
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