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The TD LP made me dig up my The First Decade cd out again and also give the series another shot from the start, it's been long enough that I've completely forgotten the vast majority of the missions by now (and I never beat everything so some stuff is actually brand new to me). Shame I missed out on commenting on the last thread, playing through a level and then comparing it to your playthrough has been pretty interesting. And in the case of Covert Ops it's also been fun to sit back and watch someone else struggle through some of those "delightful" creations.  Anyway, I haven't caught up yet but the Soviet side of RA is always the campaign I think about when I think about this series so it'll be cool to see it covered. Thank you for doing this whole thing.
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Feb 7, 2019 00:32
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By the way, dunno if it's on purpose but the N64/PS1 missions and the GDI map dissections haven't been added to the previous thread's OP yet. In case you wanted to have those archived too.
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Feb 7, 2019 18:21
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I'm still catching up, but in Allies 07 you mention how nice it is being able to scroll the build menu with the mouse wheel. That's actually one of the features of the fan patch and wasn't a thing in the original (coding the feature is credited to "CCHyper"). Really cool that they could add something like that, going back to TD's unscrollable 4 icons at a time would be rough indeed. Also I'm a V2 fan, if only for the very specific duty of destroying buildings from somewhere safe. Having them around in any combat situation is a bit harrowing for everyone involved.
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Feb 8, 2019 17:45
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Huh... I knew it was a feature in the next game, figured it was in RA. That being said, the more-than-4 items is definitely a RA thing... right? I figure the only difference is in the high resolution patches, specifically that RA's allows for showing a longer list while TD's for whatever reason doesn't. In the originals the resolution would've been low enough that more than 4 wouldn't have fit anyway.  Now that I think about it though, I recall that the PS1 version (which had smaller, textless icons to begin with) allowed you to switch to an extended building list which hid the map and the other UI elements while you were making your selection. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 18:15
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I actually grabbed that from a '96 review of the game which was originally written in a Finnish game magazine, the guy still works there so maybe I should send them a message and ask what they were thinking. He had apparently played it for three days straight ("fortunately Red Alert is a game you can play for 15 hours straight with no significant side effects") in order to get the review done in time, so maybe that affected his judgment some. He gave it a 95 out of 100, incidentally. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 20:25
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I've been playing on Hard and since I noticed you were wondering about it, the timer in mission 10 isn't changed by difficulty, you always get an hour. Sorry, I'll have more up-to-date commentary once I also finish the campaign. Speaking of Allies 03 though, I'm not sure if I ever appreciated all the neat setpieces they manage to do in the South version of that map despite the limited tools they had, the North one (which the LP covered) is weirdly plain in comparison. Or maybe I just never played that one, like most people I probably usually defaulted to the left/uppermost map choice. This time I've tried to play through all the alternatives before moving on and it's been cool to see the different flavors, and like in TD it at times feels like one option is just blatantly easier or harder than another. It's an interesting design choice.
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Feb 9, 2019 00:01
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Regarding the indoor missions like Allies 013, something I don't think was mentioned was that if you're really having trouble keeping your infantry alive, the rarely-seen Formation command can occasionally come in handy to keep them in a line when moving down a hallway for example. Normally they like to bundle up in 5-man groups like this which can lead to a situation where half the group isn't in range of enemies ahead and you take some unnecessary damage or casualties:  In a formation they're more likely to stay in line, so to speak, which can help keep more guns ready for any surprise enemies ahead and maybe migitate the effect of grenades:  It's not 100% reliable or anything but hey, it's something to try if you're struggling. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 17:14
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Also having just started the final mission I noticed something interesting: I don't know if this is the case on Normal, but at least on Hard the infantryman who runs in to shoot the barrels at the start of the level is so fast that (as far as I can tell) it's literally impossible to kill him before he blows them up and ends your mission instantly. Even putting game speed on lowest the best I could manage was a mutual kill. The only way to avoid failure 3 seconds into the mission is to immediately dodge to the south. Dunno if Easy is the only difficulty which lets you kill him or if Hard is the only one which makes it impossible to do so, but it's kind of a jerk move nonetheless.
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Feb 9, 2019 17:43
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I never actually realized the actual game speed is also affected by difficulty, I jumped right into the campaign so until you mentioned the game being slower on Easy I just figured RA was by default faster than TD was and I'd simply forgotten about it. But yeah, just like how on Easy the default speed is I guess one notch slower than on Normal, on Hard it's one notch faster. Not that it really matters since you can "cheat" and adjust the game speed whenever you like, I guess.
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Feb 9, 2019 18:01
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The difference in tone compared to the Allied campaign's beginning is hilariously stark, there it was like "HELL YEAH BLOWING UP THE BAD GUYS WITH OUR BADASS COMMANDO LADY AND SUPER SHIPS AND RESCUING ALBERT loving EINSTEIN", here we open with a recounting of how many seconds it took for what is presumably nerve gas to terminate children and our first job is to eradicate a Polish village to the last woman and child. Really making it clear from the start that we are now 100% in the villain camp and here to do some real terrible poo poo, none of that "potentially sympathetic baddies" nonsense here. But yeah, as RA is the first game in the series I played, this for me is the C&C campaign and the one I'll always remember the clearest. I love Stalin in particular, which I can assure you is not a phrase I'd use in any other context, and the first FMV already does a very good job at establishing his and his underlings' personalities and the dynamic between them. The accents are horrendously bad of course, but you could argue that's just part of the charm. As a side note, Westwood getting Polish geography wrong is almost like a running gag at this point. In Tiberian Dawn you had the small hamlet of Białystok which at the time of the game's release was a city of almost 300,000 people and this time you have the mountain village of Toruń which is actually a riverside city surrounded by plains. E: Also I always found it weird how when you first start up the game it automatically starts the Soviet campaign, and yet in the manual the detailed tutorial on how to play the game is based on the Allies campaign instead. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 20:45
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As a final note about the Allied campaign, having now beaten it I'm extremely jealous of your 1 hour run of the final mission with 358 soviet casualties. Maybe it's the difficulty difference but I felt like the soviet attacks were so relentless that I could never get an assault army going. Blood flowed like water in the Volga river and the scars of the earth will remain for generations to come.  War is hell Kanfy fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 21:18
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Also I'm pretty sure the AI's nukes just plain aren't tied to the silos at least in that mission, I destroyed that silo relatively early on and guess when I got nuked? At the very end after I'd destroyed every soviet building and only a couple of stragglers were left to be cleaned up. And what else would they nuke except my tech center which... subsequently returned the fog of war to the entire map, hiding those remaining stragglers. Turns out the Allies had gotten so reliant on their satellite to see things that they immediately threw away all maps and intel and I guess purged the very idea of remembering what places looked like from their minds. "Incredible!", to quote one Albert Einstein. nielsm posted:This depends on which CD you have in the drive when you start the game first time. Of course that only works with the original release which came on two CD-ROM, one Allies disc and one Soviet disc. Ah yeah, that'd explain it.
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Feb 9, 2019 21:45
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If I ever become a psychiatrist, I'll use this digitally restored and colored aerial photo taken during the siege of Moscow in the war of [Present Day] as a personality test to see whether the patient recoils in abject horror due to the sheer brutality of the scene taking place, or if they instead say something along the lines of "lmao nice I bet that sounded reeeeal satisfying".  (sorry I'll stop trying to hijack the LP now) Kanfy fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Feb 9, 2019 |
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Feb 9, 2019 23:19
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Cythereal posted:Command and Conquer is, uh, not the best series about its portrayal of women. The Tiberium series is better than Red Alert, which is just embarrassing. I don't personally think RA1 is much of an offender on that front. By RA3 I think more or less everyone agrees that things have gone a smidgeon too far but well, that's a topic for another time.
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Feb 10, 2019 17:44
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It's fairly obvious what they mean, though it's true that you can already tell Gradenko doesn't command much respect in Stalin's court between the way Stalin sharply interrupts him when he inquires about the player character's profile and the slightly lingering "did this fucker just try and make me sound stupid" -look he gives Grandeko when the latter remarks that the gas production is already underway. I've already gushed about it but Gene Dynarski's performance is just real good overall, I also like how he's very calm and in control except for that one brief moment towards the end when he puts his pipe down just a little too hard while ordering the eradication of the town. The man clearly has a bit of a temper.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:14
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Stalin literally addresses her as "my dear", I don't know my Soviet military ranks very well but I imagine that one's probably not listed in there.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:28
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I'm sure an update will be posted once it's ready, chill.
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Feb 11, 2019 23:12
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You mention building another refinery but yeah, you get so much money that even one refinery is largely a waste of time and money, especially if you get the money truck at the start of the level. You can just plop down a couple of barracks, make a bunch of dudes and go win if you like. Good massplosions of grenadiers though, winning while losing more units than the enemy certainly has that Soviet flavor to it. This also another example of an alternate map being noticeably trickier, though both versions are very easy. In the other map you don't get all the bonus cash and the bridge trick is instead done so that the Allies blow it up as soon as you try to cross which can actually mess you up a bit if you bring your whole army there. On the cutscene front, Georgi Kukov is almost certainly a reference to the famous Soviet general Georgy Zhukov who did indeed take part in the capture of Berlin at the end of the war. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 18:54
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PurpleXVI posted:Okay, I'm guessing Gradenko will be dead or have defected by mission 6, that's my call. Nonsense, this Stalin guy seems like the quickly forgiving sort. I mean didn't you see the way he went from shouting angrily to laughing jollily in the span of about 30 seconds, the man is clearly capable of handling setbacks in good humor. Not much to the level itself, though I guess I'd add that you can blow up the buildings as you go for some full heal crates and more "Allied buildings destroyed" in the score screen.
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Feb 13, 2019 22:14
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Groetgaffel posted:Stalin is sending Yaks to your home town as we speak. It's fine, unless their home town has a booming explosive barrel industry it'll take Yaks like 75 years to destroy it. And on the bright side, well, let me put this way OP, the possibilities in making quips about burning out in Tiberian Sun... are limitless. 
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Feb 17, 2019 12:56
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The options here are weird in that in the other map you have way less money at your disposal but the Allied attacks and base also seems weaker to the point that I actually found it the easier one of the two. Like you start with less money, the ore fields are really scarce and when you do find a church to blow up (tucked away in a faraway corner) and the usual crate pops out? It's a healing crate! Now that's real blasphemy right there. The radar dome's a lot easier to reach and destroy here too. Either way, good to get around to the "real" maps after the super easy tutorials and the spy hunt.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:28
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That was certainly an easier way to go about it, doing the map normally there's a real risk the map'll run out of ore which is pretty much what happened to me. By the time I got a base going on the island it'd more or less been picked clean, sorry about that ore you wanted Stalin. As an additional dick move, the Allies get off-map transports of a couple of tanks and an artillery + rocket guys every so often on the beach you land on who can and will take out your Construction Yard and other buildings real fast. Also I always thought that "godspeed" didn't seem like a very Stalin-like expression. But yay, promotions. 
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Feb 20, 2019 15:22
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"Just throw enough flying machines at it" solves a lot of problems in these games, but it's also by far the most boring way to play in my opinion so I always try to avoid it.
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Feb 20, 2019 22:23
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Here's the island base the Allies will build if you give them the chance by the way, pretty basic but like I mentioned they'll strip the place of ore with those two refineries right quick so if you take long and lose a lot of units it's definitely possible to make the mission very difficult to win due to there being no resources left. Guess you can always mass Paratroopers or something though. Also spot the sneaky Camo Pillboxes, the real enemy of high resolution Red Alert. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 12:12
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Nice to see you struggle with a mission more than me for once. The Cruiser attack didn't happen until the end of the map for me, so I'm guessing the early Construction Yard destruction triggered it a bit earlier than the designers intended. In fact they destroyed their own Advanced Power Plants trying to hit my units attacking their base. And yeah, on the other map you also have a land bridge behind the Allied base leading to the end so even without bridge-crossing speedrun strats you can get around without having to bother with transports.  Also I lost like 3 Submarines to other Submarines hitting them in the back with torpedoes while trying to blow up a bridge which was a little frustrating. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Feb 23, 2019 |
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Feb 23, 2019 13:52
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chocolateTHUNDER posted:I think I played the other variant of this map - would love to see the layout of that one just to see if I remember it or not. I've been behind a couple missions again, but the other map has you start in the bottom right and the Allied base is to the top left (already destroyed in this one).  Also while OP said there's not much of a difference between the maps, I think this one just might be the ultimate example of "one map is feast while the other is famine" in this game. In the bottom route you start with 8,000 credits and you're surrounded by frankly absurdly good ore fields. In the top one?  You only start with 4,000 credits, a couple extra submarines and this poor-rear end patch of land. There are more ore fields over the land bridges to the left, but they're fairly far away and none of the gem goodness you have in the other one. Also the Allies regularly send a pair of Thieves to take even what little you have. Jerks. The Allies also build a proper navy which they don't seem to do in the bottom route, though they probably have a smaller land army overall. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Feb 28, 2019 |
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Feb 28, 2019 00:17
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Cythereal posted:I suppose I'm the one person who's played most of the series who isn't attached to Kane and gets downright sick of how the guy is in everything and basically invulnerable because he's the face of the franchise. We're one and a half games into the series.
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Feb 28, 2019 01:37
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I still need to do the mission before I can say anything about it but yeah, this one's probably my favorite cutscene in the game all in all. There's a lot going on in it and it's a nice way to showcase Stalin's paranoia and the infamous purges.
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Feb 28, 2019 11:05
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Alright, so I've doing a bit of a self-imposed challenge playing on Hard without ever dropping below default speed and without resorting to cheesing or looking things up. Within those limitations, I had a really hard time with this mission. The first few tries I just got overwhelmed because there was so much going on all the time, I think here Hard makes a pretty big difference since all those speed boosts and such mean all the Allied reinforcements and choppers and other units get to you just that much quicker and there's enough of them that it all adds up. Since the default speed is also faster it's hard to respond to everything on time. After a few failures I also realized I should rush the western base which was ultimately the winning strategy, though unlike in the video there were already two refineries, a war factory, I think a helipad and a bunch of base defenses up by the time I got there. In my earlier tries where I was slower there were like 4-5 turrets and some pillboxes which they kept rebuilding constantly, and they had a legitimate army there as well. By that point their ore trucks had picked the place clean and I my income had dried up fighting against both them and the main Allied forces. Overall doing this map "legit" on Hard made it easily one of the hardest main campaign maps so far including Tiberian Dawn, it's the first time I just straight up had to give up and come back to it a bit later. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 10:57
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Speleothing posted:Yeah. That's absolutely got to be a bug. They wouldn't give you engineers if they didn't expect you to capture the repair depot. I believe it's because of the tanks themselves rather than the repair pad, there's something a little weird about them. You also can't Shift-click to select them in multiples or to unselect them, which is something that normally only happens with Engineers and Medics (and maybe Spies/Thieves and something else). Maybe they're not actually properly classified as repairable vehicles or something strange like that. Another odd detail is the fact that you start with a lot of power despite having no power plants. E: Correction, no visible power plants. Turns out they're hidden in the fog below the air fields. This is a cool mission but it can be a little frustrating since unit pathfinding is not very good at dealing with cliffs and the trucks go where they will sometimes. I'm pretty proud about how well my successful run ended up being though, for once not a single noble soul of the Soviet union fell in the hands of the Allied dogs.   And yeah, MiGs are really strong, put a bunch of them together and Construction Yards and Ore Refineries go down like nothing. Even if you lose one or two to AA in the process, precision striking key targets one after another is a very effective (if also rather boring) way to win maps. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Mar 2, 2019 |
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Mar 2, 2019 14:11
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Reason's no doubt the same with both RA and Civ, they were primarily western-marketed games and people like Stalin and Mao just aren't considered as taboo as the ol' toothbrush moustache in that part of the globe. In general what kind of depictions are acceptable in entertainment varies a lot by region since everyone has different sore spots.
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Mar 3, 2019 14:47
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 Oh yeah, time to solve some problems. I'm not sure if you've mentioned it, but unlike in TD, Mammoth Tanks now automatically use their anti-infantry rockets against infantry without having to fiddle with turning their main cannon and it's so much nicer and also makes the Mammoths even more self-sufficient. This mission's a doozy for sure, and the other version manages to be even more annoying by having more aggressive Allied attacks early on. Had to restart that one like six times since often just building a Sub Pen put it in range of a Cruiser which in turn was guarded by enough stuff to make blowing it up difficult, and then another Cruiser would arrive on the other side and it was all bad. Otherwise the two are pretty similar, more or less the same enemy reinforcements, same kind of mine gauntlet (which you can't avoid as far as I know), the works. Just on a different map. And yeah, I actually kind of hate Submarines, they can't attack over each other (unlike like, every non-submarine unit in the game) so you have to micromanage them a ton to stop them from just sitting there being blown up, or worse yet, blowing each other up. They're also slow and clumsy as heck. Rectus posted:There is a cash crate hiding among the trees on the upper left peninsula, that's easily grabbable with paratroopers. Also using guard mode on the subs is a godsend on this map especially. Was about to mention this but yeah, some free money in there. There are two cash crates in fact, both on the same small island. Here's one circled if you squint, the other's already picked up but it's behind the set of trees above it.  Oh, and RIP Gradenko. C&C Red Alert, making people coffee drinkers since 1996. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 3, 2019 |
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Mar 3, 2019 21:57
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Kukov being upset about Nadia killing the guy instead of dealing with him himself is actually a bit weird considering in the previous mission's intro he specifically said to her "I'm sure you'll find a suitable way to handle comrade Grandeko" and not in a tone which implied giving him a scathing talking-to.
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Mar 3, 2019 22:45
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The camo pillboxes aren't actually much of a problem if you go through the map normally since taking the proper mine-ridden path forces you to go past them all. On the other map I was stuck in the classic "one infantry somewhere on the map" situation though, and it was a particularly annoying one too. Luckily I spotted them on the map eventually but still...  Enhance!   I mean come on now, that's just being a jerk.
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Mar 4, 2019 12:51
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UED Special Ops posted:Hmm, speaking of that, the AI never actually solid everything and went All to Hunt on this map, unlike in many previous ones when they had no production left, which just leads to horrible pixel hunt situations like this. Wonder why that is? Just to make an already long map just that much longer at the end? Also weird how this is like, one of the only enemy AI bases so far in either campaign that has flat out zero income generation and yet regularly builds up and sends out attack waves. Maybe those Oil Derricks by the Gap Generator is supposed to be the lore reason for their endless income on this map? I don't think the AI really builds units, maybe some but definitely not in any real numbers because once you actually reach the base they pretty much just fall over. I think all the attack forces they send out are off-map reinforcements, and at least most of the defenders are in preset locations from the start. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 4, 2019 |
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Mar 4, 2019 14:52
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thetruegentleman posted:Tesla emigrated to the US before Hitler was even born, and if his bizarre weapon ideas actually worked, the US military would have been the ones to claim them. The Soviets might have stolen the plans or eventually kidnapped Tesla, but the US would still have most of his stuff. I like to think the US military dismissed the idea because they were working on real world rules instead of video game ones and having to construct a giant advanced power plant just to power one single Coil was a completely nonsensical and massively inefficient proposition.
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Mar 5, 2019 20:21
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It's worth highlighting just how dirt poor you are at the start of this mission. If you don't realize you have 3000 credits and, like me, first build a barracks and a handful of grenadiers in case there are some early attacks coming, you won't actually have the money to even build an Ore Refinery. And speaking of the start of the mission, that V2 automatically rolling right next to the turrets and blowing up right away if you don't manually turn it around is a dick move. That southern base is a surprisingly tough nut, I went in with like 8 Mammoth Tanks and they just straight up couldn't get through the defenses. A trio of V2s softening them up beforehand made it a lot easier though, while they normally don't target things hidden by fog, I think the fog from gap generators don't count as long as you've revealed the terrain under it at least once before. Also you can just sell the Tech Centers as you capture them without failing the mission if you don't need them (and you kinda don't since Destroyers are more reliable than Cruisers as was made evident by that mishap at the end), they eat a lot of power and extra money never hurts. Well, that's only really relevant to the first one to the southwest of course. The power plant in your base was almost destroyed towards the end because there's an off-map Longbow attack from the northwest. For me they just blew up a Flamethrower and left, never to return.
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Mar 6, 2019 13:00
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There are I think 34 missions in total in Counterstrike+Aftermath, yeah.
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Mar 8, 2019 10:19
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Bugginess aside, the other map seemed more harsh than this one simply because of the difference in Allied naval presence near their main base. On the other map they had one or two Cruisers and here they had zero, which makes a huge difference in how difficult it is to take out the base. Felt like a lot more Destroyers too, at the very least it took a lot of submarines to crack that one. I had to rely on the Iron Curtain to make one sub invincible and draw fire with it or else they'd just get mulched by all the Allied boats. Of course not having to deal with the other base on that map is a big relief, I'm pretty sure that base's "intended" purpose is just to deceive you into spending resources attacking it while dealing with the troops they send from there. When things work as intended there's zero reason to touch it since there are no Radar Domes in there. Also a weird random thing I noticed, the Allies get a Medic with one of their reinforcement groups and when that group gunned for my wounded infantryman, the Medic "attacked" it by healing it to full. Very kind. Gave him some bullets in return. And yeah, I'm still not entirely sure what triggers the Allies destroying the Chronosphere because boy are they eager to do it, as was mentioned in another post just sending a Spy Plane over it can be enough to make them blow it up. Yeah, as a concept it's super cool, but it's immensely frustrating when you're doing well and suddenly it's "Mission Failed" because they decided to nuke it with their rocket troopers while you haven't even attacked their base yet. Best thing seems to be to avoid even seeing it until you're ready to finish the mission, which is a little silly. One last thing that occurred to me after finishing this mission, aside from the obviously far superior characters and cutscenes on the Soviet side, I feel like the Allied campaign is overall better than this one. There's actually quite a bit going on there, spy infiltrations, Tanya being a badass, protecting the Chronosphere, rescuing a Soviet defector and dealing with a nuclear threat. On the Soviet side especially towards the end it feels like the main gist is just "Stalin really really really wants the Chronosphere like super duper bad, and boy howdy are there a lot of Cruiser-laden waters and mine-ridden fields between you and that goal." At least having a mission to capture Einstein yourself could've gone a long way towards spicing up the Soviet lategame. Kanfy fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 8, 2019 |
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Mar 8, 2019 17:32
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Well, power shifts quickly in the Soviet Union. I always liked to think that the Commander was actually the only one in on the whole thing from the start, that it was Kane who provided Stalin with their profile in the very first cutscene and so forth. Would explain why they always just sit silently no matter what poo poo went down, it was all just part of the plan and Kane would always make sure they get bailed out. Also gently caress Cruisers forever Jobbo_Fett posted:Retaliation is weird and I don't own it so I don't know 100% where the cutscenes go, but the first expansion video (iirc) will explain that I'm putting them approx. where they should go, based on the content of the cutscenes. I downloaded them as an extra for the overall mod and they just play automatically in the appropriate spots.  In any case, I also don't remember the expansion missions that well, so I've been looking forward to breaking my teeth on them.
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Mar 10, 2019 22:03
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