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banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






Ainsley McTree posted:

Little Carmine is basically a Jackie Junior who lived

Except Carmine is likable.

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BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

For some reason one of the biggest lines Chris delivers for me is his heroin riddled "He'll be proud of his house...you'll come over for Christmas" give and take with his junkie hitman after he relapses. As an addict myself, there's something genuinely REAL about it. He feels so good all of a sudden this dude is a family friend.

The show does a good job depicting drunk and drug use. Too many shows go way over the top with it and portray both as someone who's never done drugs idea of how someone acts on drugs. I'm immediately thinking of Chris slurring his words when they're cleaning up Ralphie or when he does Livia's eulogy speech. Very underplayed and made more real because of it. Someone under the influence, more times than not, feels perfectly natural and comfortable and acts that way, even if they're inhibitions are down (which is usually the giveaway), not some drooling half comatose zombie that is usually how they're played.

Also chiming in to agree with those that said that every actor in this show does a ton of heavy lifting with just their eyes and their faces. Show has some of the best body language, facial expressions and pregnant pauses I've ever seen. I don't know if it's great acting, the directors telling them to use space and silence or what but it's very effective and, again, feels real.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



I still love how Gandolfini would have Tony so angry he'd be smiling.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Finished season 5 and

Dawgstar posted:

Watching both Tony and Johnny try do their mad dash reminds me of Junior in season one telling Pussy that 'we don't run, it's undignified.' And sure enough, it was.

I love this scene so much. These guys just spent 5 minutes tough-guy posturing and getting so up in each others' faces that they're practically kissing, and then the split second tony sees the cops coming he turns around and bolts like a scared rabbit.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


Dawgstar posted:

I still love how Gandolfini would have Tony so angry he'd be smiling.

Seriously, when he'd bellow and roar he was intimidating but when that cruel smile surfaced he was downright terrifying.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



Ainsley McTree posted:

Finished season 5 and


I love this scene so much. These guys just spent 5 minutes tough-guy posturing and getting so up in each others' faces that they're practically kissing, and then the split second tony sees the cops coming he turns around and bolts like a scared rabbit.

If you want to talk facial acting that second between Tony thinking about coming in for coffee with Johnny and seeing the Feds coming to deciding he doesn’t have to outrun the Feds, just Johnny, is downright amazing. You can just see the shift in Tony’s eyes to “Nope, out.”

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Dawgstar posted:

If you want to talk facial acting that second between Tony thinking about coming in for coffee with Johnny and seeing the Feds coming to deciding he doesn’t have to outrun the Feds, just Johnny, is downright amazing. You can just see the shift in Tony’s eyes to “Nope, out.”

For real, yeah. He could have given Johnny a heads up but within seconds of squashing the beef and reconciling with his old friend he snaps right into "every man for himself" mode.


Jerusalem posted:

Seriously, when he'd bellow and roar he was intimidating but when that cruel smile surfaced he was downright terrifying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9ZyZ19XMS0#t=110s

(skip to 1:50 in case that didn't embed properly)

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


Goddammit Meadow, you had a car in NYC for how many years and you can’t parallel park?

I hate this scene because it means my rewatch is over

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


Ainsley McTree posted:

Little Carmine is basically a Jackie Junior who lived

Nah they're pretty different. Jackie Jr is a horrible little prick whereas Lil Carmine is a pretty genial guy all things considered

And as has been repeatedly pointed out, even though both of them weren't really smart enough to play the game, LC was at least smart enough to know he wasn't smart enough to play the game

We just finished season 3 on rewatch last night. Jackie Jr is such a dickhead

EDIT even more beaten than I thought but ah well

EDIT EDIT

BiggerBoat posted:

The show does a good job depicting drunk and drug use. Too many shows go way over the top with it and portray both as someone who's never done drugs idea of how someone acts on drugs. I'm immediately thinking of Chris slurring his words when they're cleaning up Ralphie or when he does Livia's eulogy speech. Very underplayed and made more real because of it. Someone under the influence, more times than not, feels perfectly natural and comfortable and acts that way, even if they're inhibitions are down (which is usually the giveaway), not some drooling half comatose zombie that is usually how they're played.

I've no experience with heroin - grazie dio - but his speech at Livia's thing is perfect weed talk. Probably some of the best weed talk I've ever seen put to film

Barry Foster fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Oct 15, 2020

hi liter
Oct 2, 2010



Little Carmine also seems to sincerely care about his wife and family in a way that the other made guys clearly do not. He's wealthy, got every material need ever covered, and has a loving family. Tony has most of the same but doesn't feel content.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


hi liter posted:

Little Carmine also seems to sincerely care about his wife and family in a way that the other made guys clearly do not. He's wealthy, got every material need ever covered, and has a loving family. Tony has most of the same but doesn't feel content.

Johnny Sack and Bobby are also family/SO focused too.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

Barry Foster posted:


I've no experience with heroin - grazie dio - but his speech at Livia's thing is perfect weed talk. Probably some of the best weed talk I've ever seen put to film

I've never done H either but, yeah. That Lydia speech reminded me of my best man's rambling funny nonsense at my wedding. He and my groomsmen took a walk to spark up prior to his toast and he never stopped apologizing for loving it up in his mind. I thought it was fine and funny but he said he had this whole other thing ready to go, locked and loaded, and then just lost it to the weed.

Tony's peyote trip was handled really well too I thought.

Barry Foster
Dec 24, 2007

Brush your teeth.


BiggerBoat posted:

I've never done H either but, yeah. That Lydia speech reminded me of my best man's rambling funny nonsense at my wedding. He and my groomsmen took a walk to spark up prior to his toast and he never stopped apologizing for loving it up in his mind. I thought it was fine and funny but he said he had this whole other thing ready to go, locked and loaded, and then just lost it to the weed.

Tony's peyote trip was handled really well too I thought.

It may just be the stoner in me, but I actually thought what Chrissie was saying was kind of a fun thought experiment. Just not at all apposite to the situation.

I've not (yet) done peyote, but I do like the dreamy feel of that sequence.

Man the Sopranos is good

phasmid
Jan 16, 2015

Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY


I like that the guys at the Bing are all genuinely interested in Tony's peyote trip. Guys who occasionally use blow at parties and who don't even sell drugs because it's beneath them (correct me if I'm wrong; they always seem to offload narcotics onto this underling or that one) are now gathered around like teenage boys in their curiosity. Also that Tony's "I get it!" moment frustratingly goes out with the tide - it's drugs, T - and he can't remember what it is that he "got".

Agree the show handles drug use far more realistically than most shows do (Chrissy even loses his job to drugs. Just say No, kids). His eulogy for Livia is one of those things where your mouth just stays open for all of it. The look on Hesh's face is loving great.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Why god?





Grimey Drawer

Matt Zerella posted:

Goddammit Meadow, you had a car in NYC for how many years and you can’t parallel park?

I hate this scene because it means my rewatch is over

The essayist who's convinced that the editing of the scene tells you the member's only jacket guy kills Tony says that not only does the parallel parking ramp up the tension for the audience even though it's totally ordinary for the characters, her being slightly late means she doesn't occupy the seat between Tony and the bathroom when the guy emerges, giving him a clear shot at Tony. If she had parallel parked quickly, the guy might have called off the hit.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Why god?





Grimey Drawer

Dawgstar posted:

If you want to talk facial acting that second between Tony thinking about coming in for coffee with Johnny and seeing the Feds coming to deciding he doesn’t have to outrun the Feds, just Johnny, is downright amazing. You can just see the shift in Tony’s eyes to “Nope, out.”

phasmid
Jan 16, 2015

Booty Shaker
SILENT MAJORITY


My ending is that Furio walks in and kills Tony and runs off to Palermo with Carmella. Meadow never manages to park. AJ and Little Carmine team up to make the sequel to Gone Fishing.

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






Members only guy was just a nervous screenwriter trying to approach Tony to give him the revised draft of the dead virtual hooker script.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


banned from Starbucks posted:

Members only guy was just a nervous screenwriter trying to approach Tony to give him the revised draft of the dead virtual hooker script.

Through the dataport... or whateva

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

Matt Zerella posted:

Through the dataport... or whateva

That cookie poo poo makes me nervous.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Why god?





Grimey Drawer

Furio definitely just went back to his life in Italy. I know the Italians are telling Tony "Oh yeah, we're scouring the countryside, and when we find him, boy is he a'gonna get it," but Furio is for sure back to smacking around 12-year-olds for setting off fireworks near the don.

Pope Corky the IX
Dec 18, 2006

What are you looking at?

Tony told Carmela that just to make her feel bad. There is no loving way Annalisa would sanction a hit on her own cousin in Italy, especially when Furio never even touched Carmela, and I’m sure Zucco would take his word over Tony’s.

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.



Pope Corky the IX posted:

Tony told Carmela that just to make her feel bad. There is no loving way Annalisa would sanction a hit on her own cousin in Italy, especially when Furio never even touched Carmela, and I’m sure Zucco would take his word over Tony’s.

That was always my read on it too. She immediately says something like "For what? Talking to me? Listening to me?" and he does that little slink away look he always does when he gets caught in a lie with her.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Yeah even if he wanted to do that, which I have my doubts he ever even tried, there's no way he had the power to pull those strings.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

Why god?





Grimey Drawer

Pope Corky the IX posted:

Tony told Carmela that just to make her feel bad. There is no loving way Annalisa would sanction a hit on her own cousin in Italy, especially when Furio never even touched Carmela, and I’m sure Zucco would take his word over Tony’s.

Oh yeah that makes sense

Solice Kirsk
Jun 1, 2004

.



I misremembered. He said it to her in the kitchen and had that sadistic smirk that he used to intimidate people, but Carm just kinda rolls her eyes and says "he had coffee here Tony" and once he realizes his threats are toothless with her immediately says the coffee maker sucks.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

I never knew that AJ's Slipknot jacket was a meme or even a thing but I stumbled across this article for why he was wearing it

"A.J. needed a jacket. It was that simple:" The story of A.J. Soprano's iconic Slipknot windbreaker

https://news.avclub.com/a-j-needed-...ry-o-1845381072

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017



BiggerBoat posted:

I never knew that AJ's Slipknot jacket was a meme or even a thing but I stumbled across this article for why he was wearing it

"A.J. needed a jacket. It was that simple:" The story of A.J. Soprano's iconic Slipknot windbreaker

https://news.avclub.com/a-j-needed-...ry-o-1845381072

I regret we did not get that Slipknot jumpsuit and also I want to see what happens when AJ watches a video on being a minimalist.

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






-Christmas morning at the Soprano house-

AJ: oh..another slipknot jacket.

Carm: that's from nana, and you're gonna tell her how much you like it.

Meadow: let me see, maybe itll fit me.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




Am I crazy, or does Christopher's Godfather 2 meets Saw movie actually sound kind of cool

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Crook County

BiggerBoat posted:

I never knew that AJ's Slipknot jacket was a meme or even a thing but I stumbled across this article for why he was wearing it

"A.J. needed a jacket. It was that simple:" The story of A.J. Soprano's iconic Slipknot windbreaker

https://news.avclub.com/a-j-needed-...ry-o-1845381072

quote:

A new version of the jacket is available on Slipknot’s merch shop, but the original, which Iler says was purged along with so much else after he “watched a documentary about being a minimalist,” is long gone.

lol this is such an AJ move.

The Vosgian Beast
Aug 13, 2011

Business is slow

Ainsley McTree posted:

Am I crazy, or does Christopher's Godfather 2 meets Saw movie actually sound kind of cool

In universe it 100% has a devoted cult following to this day, especially once the story gets out that it was all written by a murdered screenwriter who adapted it from a story by an actual member of the mafia.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004




I'm up to The Fleshy Part of the Thigh on my rewatch and something's bugging me; what does Paulie spend his money on?

It's come up a few times in the series now, where Paulie's worried about his cash flow re: keeping Nucci at Green Grove, and it culminates in this one where he beats the poo poo out of poor doomed Jason Barone to come up with the $4k/month to keep her there. But he's been a captain in the family since season one, which I assume must mean he's earning pretty well, and he doesn't have a family, or a nice apartment, or any other noticeably flashy poo poo to spend his money on, so what exactly is he worried about? I mean 4k/month is obviously not a small expense, but I have to assume a mafia capo is equivalent to at least an upper middle class white collar income and he ought to be able to afford it (he obviously expects Jason to be able to!). I guess the most simple explanation is that he's just a greedy violent rear end in a top hat.

I'm also appreciating the accidental easter egg in which Paulie takes out his frustrations on a guy whose actor will later go on to play a man named Russ (his unknown father's name) in Silicon Valley

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012


Paulie was never a great earner, he was too shortsighted and old school to hit the real cash. And we do see him with a mistress. I assume he's just bad at staying within his more modest gangster means and over spends at the track and such

Suxpool
Nov 20, 2002
I want something good to die for...to make it beautiful to live

We know Green Grove is a gigantic recurring bill, and we know Paulie donates some amount to the church so they have him covered sin-wise. Other than that and paying his normal person bills he has to kick up to Tony.

It's true he's probably not the sharpest of earners, but the whole wise guy scene breaks down to money. As Paulie himself has remarked, you're only as good as your last envelope.

I think in the Sopranos universe it must be considered a fundamental truth that the more committed you are to making money whenever and however possible, the more effective and legitimate you are as a wise guy.

I can't imagine, between the ongoing hustles we see him involved with and the massive scores we see him take down that he's ever actually been in danger of failing to cover his nut. It's not so simple as saying he's greedy. Paulie is just extremely committed.

Suxpool fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Oct 21, 2020

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






Paulie should be fine money wise. Even Chris complaining about covering an occasional 2k dinner seems odd. Hes been made what like 3 years at this point. He has a no show job, a sports bookmaking operation, the crazy horse plus a crew of associates under him paying him money.

Vichan
Oct 1, 2014

I'LL PUNISH YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR CRIME

banned from Starbucks posted:

Even Chris complaining about covering an occasional 2k dinner seems odd.

They're just exceptionally greedy.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

We've never been into punk. It was too traditional.


Yeah to me it never seemed like Pauly was struggling, he's just a massive piece of poo poo that loses his mind if he feels like he isn't getting what's owed to him. And what is owed to him is whatever he can get away with but he has a huge chip on his shoulder about it.

veni veni veni fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Oct 21, 2020

GoutPatrol
Oct 17, 2009

Coal Jobs for the Coal God


The mob itself is like a huge loving pyramid scheme. These aren't the Scarface millionaires, and the people only 3-4 rungs down the totem pole are living like they got two minimum wage jobs. And if someone who has read enough mob books can correct me, that's basically how it was on the real thing in the 70s-80s. Ralphie, the biggest earner they had, was living in a post war in a lovely apartment in northern jersey, not even a detached split level!

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hi liter
Oct 2, 2010



It’s all cash in, they don’t have reliable income, and the nature of their work means they don’t have real financial support. Im not sure Tony has a credit card in his name, as seen in the Test Dream when he checks into the Plaza. A lack of proper bank accounts, credit cards, and lots of conspicuous spending on luxury goods will make cash disappear fast, especially when you throw in gambling.

In Season 3 when Chris first gets made he fucks up setting the line on his sports book on a big NFL game and he loses money, forcing him to go out and do a bunch robberies to cover what he owes Paulie. They’re petty criminals spending to try and achieve the appearance of middle class success.

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