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I'm a Motherfucking Goddamn Orange Peel Beef person myself.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:54
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I’m partial to fuckin goddamn fuckin [rips phone out of wall] BITCH
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Sep 6, 2019 18:06
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I'm still amazed at how Edie Falco and even Robert Iler play that scene. The former doesn't flinch at all, while the latter only a bit, and the goddamn phone almost hits both of them. It so perfectly conveys that they've been dealing with these outbursts for years and they're mostly used to it. Especially with Carmela telling AJ "...I told you to go upstairs" before telling Tony to grow up and then taking the broken phone out of the dishwasher as if it's the most normal thing.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:18
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Basebf555 posted:There's two types of Sopranos fans. Mother loving Orange Peel Beef people and She Was Abusive To The Staff people. I respect Orange Peel Beef people but I'm an Abusive To The Staff person myself. This is fantastic, and true. SHE WAS ABUSIVE TO THE STAAAFFFFF EDIT: Also I have been quoting Paulie's "mom" after her car accident, for years. The halfhearted way she says "Oh Paulie, Madon'!" just tickles me. Ishamael fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 18:36
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Paulie's mom is the most wholesome part of The Sopranos, an anti-Livia. Really makes you wonder how Paulie could've ended up so rotten.
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Sep 6, 2019 20:37
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It’s heartbreaking but also hilarious when Nucci is crying over the way Minn and Cookie are treating her and quotes the old Hallmark commercial when she talks about the nice card she sent them. “I cared enough! And I sent the very best!”
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Sep 6, 2019 22:20
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Vichan posted:Paulie's mom is the most wholesome part of The Sopranos, an anti-Livia. Really makes you wonder how Paulie could've ended up so rotten. They both have lovely paternal figures though. It's really telling in the pilot that Carmella's reaction to Tony telling her that he's in therapy "You told them about your father, right?" but yet he goes on and on about Livia in each season. Tony is kind of like the unreliable narrator with Melfi, trying to put who he is on his mother but in the text of the show, his father was as much of a violent sociopath and a serial adulterer as Tony grew up to be. Paulie was kicked out of the army for being so psychologically disturbed, he definitely didn't get that from his mother.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:26
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Ma Gnucci's problem was probably one that she never really disciplined Paulie, maybe because she felt guilty.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:54
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Dry those peeps Rest those dogs
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Sep 7, 2019 07:12
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I think it's a testament to the quality of the show that "Whitecaps" is basically a center piece and a high point but, from what I recall, has zero mob violence or even much violence at all beyond the domestic disputes. Kind of flies in the face of the people who used to watch it for the whacking of the week.
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Sep 7, 2019 14:10
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Theres some violence. They kill the 2 black guys who are supposed to kill Carmine.
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Sep 7, 2019 15:52
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banned from Starbucks posted:Theres some violence. They kill the 2 black guys who are supposed to kill Carmine. Oh poo poo that's right. It was right there in the recap too. My bad.
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Sep 7, 2019 18:49
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banned from Starbucks posted:Theres some violence. They kill the 2 black guys who are supposed to kill Carmine. And they're probably where Chris heard the name Kaisha.
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Sep 8, 2019 12:24
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BiggerBoat posted:I think it's a testament to the quality of the show that "Whitecaps" is basically a center piece and a high point but, from what I recall, has zero mob violence or even much violence at all beyond the domestic disputes. Kind of flies in the face of the people who used to watch it for the whacking of the week. I do (and did) get a little tired of David Chase's complaining that people only watched the show for the violence. I mean, you created a show about violent people. That is what makes them different from the people you know in your own life, I don't think it is crazy that people would expect the violent mob stuff to be part of the story. It's like telling someone a story about the royal family and then getting mad when they want to hear more about the royal part. Of course they do, that's the part that is different and unusual! In fact, imagine if he had actually worked the story about whacking Carmine into the Whitecaps episode, it could have been amazing! To watch Tony succeed beyond his wildest dreams in his profession while his personal life fell apart, that would have been an awesome juxtaposition. I don't get the mindset that being invested in the cutthroat part of the show is somehow less than being invested in the personal drama. They are both key parts of the show, IMO. That said, I wouldn't change anything about Whitecaps, it is as good as TV gets. The two big confrontation scenes between Carmela and Tony are some of the best writing and performing I have seen in any medium.
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Sep 8, 2019 16:09
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You make good points but I think what Chase was lamenting was more people holding watch parties and drawing names on who would get whacked like mobster fantasy football, then listening to complaints that there wasn't enough whacking. The people who hated certain seasons because it was all "soap opera poo poo". I mean, the violence is a part of what we're given but the overall theme is "guy walks into a psychiatrist's office" only this time he's a mobster. "Analyze This" with some brains and with an attempt to show us how you balance that life in a modern suburban neighborhood family. The violence is just one aspect and The Sopranos is pretty good at dodging cliches of what had become a rather tired genre thanks largely to Coppola and Scorcese. It's similar to people bitching about S2 of The Wire because there wasn't enough street level drug dealing going on. Simon said the viewers were missing that the entire point of the series was that Baltimore itself was the main character and that all the pieces connected. The same poo poo that drove people to the corners and the towers were the same things that busted unions and killed the ports.
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Sep 8, 2019 18:59
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Season 5, Episode 1 - Two TonysTony Soprano posted:Why can't I do something that's just for me for a change? Almost a year and a half has passed between the end of season 4 and this, the start of season 5. In that intervening time, there had been a very real fear that the show might NOT return owing to an ugly contract dispute between James Gandolfini and HBO. Somebody else can go into the specifics of that, but suffice to say the show's return could NOT simply pretend a few days or weeks had passed between the stunning conclusion to season 4 and this opening episode. So they allowed for the passage of time, for the uncomfortable settling in of a new status quo, which set the stage for further disruptions to come. The show opens to the tune of EmmyLou Harris and shots of the exterior of the Soprano home. It is fall, leaves are everywhere, the pool sits unused, BBQ untended, birdfeed still locked up. At the base of the driveway the Star Ledger sits waiting to be picked up, a role traditionally reserved for Tony Soprano at the start of each season. Instead, Meadow drives over it in her car, honking the horn impatiently when she gets to the top for AJ. He comes out and hops into the extremely dirty, unwashed car complete with minor body damage indicating Meadow still isn't the best or most conscientious driver. It sure is odd how somebody brought up given everything she wants wouldn't value her super-expensive car she was gifted to help her "get around" at her fully paid for Ivy League college, huh? They arrive at Bobby's home, he and Tony sitting on the couch watching TV as a stressed out Janice works on the meal, somewhat aided by Sophia('s new actor). On the news they discuss the upcoming release of members of the Mafia imprisoned in the 1980s that "broke the back" of the mob. Tony seems amused by this, and disgusted by the notion that this upcoming release could lead to violence and bloodshed as older mobsters attempt to regain their positions from those who replaced them. Among the major names to be released are Angelo Garepe, former consigliore to Carmine Lupertazzi, as well as Phil Leotardo, a Lupertazzi captain. In New Jersey a familiar name is mentioned, "Feech" La Manna has already been released, but the name Tony is really interested in is the last: Tony Blundetto. He lets out a whoop of delight and Janice rushes from the kitchen to see their cousin, irritated at the unflattering photo they picked. Tony B was a rising star in the DiMeo Family when he was put away on a RICO charge for a truck hijacking, but he was also the chief suspect in two murders. Janice complains he was a fox and the photo should have represented that, and an irritated Tony asks her to pipe down, causing her to warn him this is HER house. This is the first sign that Janice and Bobby have moved on to a more serious relationship since their giggling celebration of Junior's mistrial. She returns to the kitchen and a happy Tony agrees with Bobby that he'll be happy to see his cousin (who we never once heard of before this episode).   Meadow and AJ arrive, apologizing for being late, but Janice is more concerned that Carmela didn't give them anything to bring with them. Meadow explains Carmela wasn't even there, she'd gone out to dinner with Rosalie, which means Janice for once has had to prepare everything herself. She has taken it upon herself (of course) to continue Carmela's tradition of Sunday Dinners for the whole family, but not realized just how much work Carmela put into those. She calls everybody in for dinner, pissed at Tony and Bobby taking their time and AJ complaining about the canned clam chowder. Janice become worried as she realizes her wedding ring has slipped off. This is how we learn that Janice has finally pulled it off and married a man high up in the mob. It's not the mansion with Richie she dreamed of, but she has a home and a ready-made family including a husband with a high rank in the mob. Love AND power like she always wanted, although she's feeling less than powerful hunting through the trash and certainly less than loved by Bobby seemingly now taking her domestic duties for granted. Later that night Carmela returns home to the sound of AJ playing his drums. She gets him to stop so she can ask him about how the dinner went, getting little in the way of information from her surly son apart from that Tony was tired and went home instead of picking up his mail. She reminds him she asked him to bring in the Power Vac from outside, and at first tries to be charming by singing how nice it is to have a man about the house... until he grumpily mumbles she should have thought about that before. Wounded but also pissed, she foregoes charm and straight up orders him to go get the Power Vac inside, and his attempt to stare her down with surliness quickly disappears under her withering gaze. Making a performance out of it, he sighs and lurches from his room under protest, with nothing but contempt and disregard for his mother... until a few seconds later when he squeals and starting sobbing for his mommy to come and save him, because there's a loving bear in the backyard!  There is a certain savage satisfaction to be had from AJ's complete (if understandable) breakdown. An almost entirely sheltered life free from want has made him into a soft, arrogant little douchebag and then suddenly into his sheltered upper-class surburban life wanders a goddamn bear that could tear him apart like tissue paper without even trying. When Carmela runs out, spots the bear and runs away his quiet, bewildered,"....mommy?...." is perfect. She hasn't abandoned him of course, she returns with pot and pan and begins clanging them together at the confused bear, which casually shatters a piece of lawn furniture under its bulk before lumbering off when she tosses one of the pots in its direction. AJ and Carmela embrace, AJ's disdain for his mother forgotten now in his fear as he clings tight to her. It turns out that Tony being too tired to get his mail was actually that he wanted to dump his son at home so he could go bang Valentina, who he is still seeing. Their sex complete he is already getting dressed and ready to her out the door, mildly frustrating her since in spite of everything she still seems to think their relationship is anything more than that. As he finishes his sandwich, she jumps through TV channels looking for something to watch, but something catches his eye instead. Prince of Tides is screening, and Tony becomes fascinated watching the interplay between Nick Nolte and Barbara Streisand as a quasi-patient and psychiatrist respectively. The appeal is obvious, Streisand's Lowenstein reminds him of Melfi, but Valentina only sees that he's enraptured and enjoys the chance to spend a little more time with him, not grasping just how doomed their relationship is. While all this is going on, New Jersey Fish and Game has come to the Soprano house to try and track down the bear, but it has disappeared. AJ, safe now, is back to being a douchebag, complaining that Carmela should have shot it with Tony's rifle, sneering at the Fish and Game officers reminding him discharging firearms in the borough is illegal. They give Carmela advice on how to avoid the bear showing up again, ensuring the garbage can lids are securely fastened and sprayed with ammonia. They explain they can't set traps as no property was damaged or people hurt, but one officer - a very handsome middle-aged man - gives Carmela his card to call if the bear should return, and she eagerly takes it, giving the charming man a pleasant smile. But the smile goes when, as they leave, he calls back to ask about the birdfeed he saw earlier. She has to bring Tony into this by admitting it belongs to her husband, and when he explains the bear was probably attracted by the smell of the now damp, aromatic birdfeed it is just one more thing to add to the list of problems Tony has caused her.   Later in the week, Dr. Melfi is sitting in her office when there is a knock at the door. Answering it, she's surprised to receive a flower basket, including - oh Tony - including a box of Tide detergent. The note is unsigned, but she has no doubt who it has come from. The Bada Bing isn't open yet, and Christopher and Paulie are taking the opportunity to regale Patsy and Vito with their story of the Russian they took out to the Pine Barrens (if Georgie hasn't swept for bugs they could be in real poo poo), their once miserable night out now a beloved funny story. Tony arrives with Benny who apparently was on driving duty today, and they all greet each other before Tony excuses himself to make some calls. Christopher launches back into the story and it is all fun and games again... until Christopher can't help but add that none of it would have happened if Paulie had just kept his mouth shut instead of needling the Russian. This sets off a series of counter-recriminations, Christopher joking (in a mean way) and Paulie taking it all far more seriously. When Christopher reveals Paulie lost a shoe the others roar with laughter, and Christopher keeps at it, mocking Paulie begging him not to leave him out there. That's enough for Paulie, who accuses him of always playing up his blood-relation to Tony to get away with poo poo. They lunge at each other and the others have to pull them away, and Christopher storms out. Vito is pissed, he was enjoying the story! Melfi finishes up with a patient when her phone rings. Answering, she's not surprised to hear it is Tony calling, it seems this was one of the important calls he wanted to make. He asks if she got the flowers, assures her he is still taking his medication, and answers her polite inquiries with enthusiastic declarations of just how great his life is ohyeahandheandcarmelaseparated[ before getting into the reason he called: he wants to take her out to dinner since they're no longer patients. Alarm bells ringing, she quickly explains she is flattered but must decline due to their prior clinical relationship. Tony makes a joke of that too, but the second he realizes she isn't going to fall prey to his charms/stubbornness, he becomes upset. Scowling, he reminds her that he waited a good length of time before calling as a show of respect, as if this somehow earns him anything. She's tried to keep her tone breezy and warm, but when Tony hangs up after promising he isn't going to be deterred by this rejection, she is quite justifiably troubled. For Tony it is flirty banter, for her it is a former patient with a criminal background and anger issues who doesn't realize that he sounds more like a stalker than a potential beau. Carmela is going through the mail while AJ practices the drums again when she spots the bear again outside of the second story window. She rushes downstairs, her obvious distress even penetrating AJ's self-obsessed teenage mind and he follows after her, asking if she really thinks locking the patio door is going to do anything to stop the bear if it wants to get inside. She rushes to the kitchen to find the (very handsome) Fish and Game officer's card, putting through a call and getting frustrated (and slightly disappointed) it isn't his direct line, putting her through to an operator. As she navigates the automated menu, Tony arrives ignorant of all the excitement, a different kind of lumbering bear intruding on the home. He overhears what she is talking about and is shocked, not liking her waving him off as she talks to the officer. After she hangs up she fills him in, surprised that AJ didn't mention this to him yesterday when they went out to see a game together. Tony isn't happy about that either, pissed AJ didn't think a loving bear showing up at the house warranted mentioning. Carmela calls the Cusamano's to warn them since they keep their dog chained up outside and she's worried the bear will maul it. Tony looks around the seemingly empty backyard, Carmela joining him to see if she can spot the dog, she wasn't able to reach them on the phone. Tony is mad she didn't call him on Sunday, accusing her of trying to prove her independence, but she rightly points out she called the cops who called Fish and Game which was the sensible thing to do. Still, it rankles her that Tony is lashing out at her over this so she hits back, pointing out that she was told the birdfeed is what attracted the bear into the yard. Tony has a moment silence as that sinks in, knowing it could be accurate but not wanting to admit any fault, so he just snaps that he never heard of that happening before. When Fish and Game arrive, he joins Officer Zmuda in looking through the trees for any sign of the bear but again there is nothing. Zmuda is apologetic that once again they can't set traps due to nobody being hurt or any property damage occurring, and Tony can't help but notice that while he thinks this isn't good enough, Carmela seems entirely too willing to forgive the very handsome man in the snazzy uniform. As Zmuda and his partner leave, Tony calls them back to offer them a tip, simultaneously trying to establish his dominant position as well as belittle them with his comment about buying new whistles. This backfires spectacularly, as the officers decline the money out of hand and explain with a measure of condescension he frankly deserves that they don't use whistles. They leave, and Tony mocks Zmuda as being obviously gay, Carmela rolling her eyes and pointing out that he's just a good looking guy. She goes back inside, leaving Tony with a surly AJ, letting the fact his (estranged) wife just openly complimented another man on his looks sink in. They may be separated, he may be (still) banging women all over the place, but he clearly still feels like he has some kind of ownership/hold over Carmela as a sexual being.   Following her back inside, he continues to act like he's anything other than just a visitor to the house. He drinks directly from the container of juice in the fridge, watched but uncommented on by Carmela who clearly doesn't want an argument. He's come to pay her out her "allowance", which is now slightly less creepy than when they were together since now it feels more like alimony than a patronizing reminder of his status as pater familias. He tells her though that he's worried about her and AJ being there alone, and forks out extra cash so she can take AJ and they can stay in a hotel until they know the bear is gone for good. She rejects that, and points out that while it is great for him to make these grand gestures she doesn't understand why he has no issue with hotel stays or buying AJ an expensive drum set but balks at the idea of paying to fix the upstairs toilet or to replace the coffee machine which has a corroded heating unit. She doesn't want to break AJ's routine, especially since he's currently being a real rear end in a top hat, and this kicks off a big argument over the fact he won't pay for an SAT tutor for AJ. Tony complains that he was willing to pay if given statements, and she reminds him they were hiring a college student who needs the cash and sure as hell isn't set up to generate paperwork on top of that. It all boils back to the separation of course, as she accuses him of trying to make her life financially difficult to punish her for the separation, and he accuses her of not respecting the Catholic tradition of marriage. Yes, unbelievably, without a hint of self-awareness, the man who sticks his dick in every woman he can, who was banging Valentina on Sunday and trying to pick up Melfi a couple days later, chides Carmela for not upholding the sanctity of marriage. Then to further showcase his utter hypocrisy he tries to claim SHE was the one being unfaithful by "going after some loving immigrant." She's astonished, but rather than pointing out his hypocrisy simply rebukes him for having called around his connections in Italy to make it know he wants Furio dead. One would assume that Italy for the most part will ignore that, as least those who work for Annalisa, but Tony takes a grim satisfaction in getting "revenge" on Furio by at least making his life more difficult. Carmela reminds that that all she and Furio ever did was talk, all Furio ever did in this house was drink coffee. "And now the coffeemaker sucks, how do you like them apples!" a smug Tony questions, as if he's somehow completely laid down an impossibly sick burn on his estranged wife. Collecting up the extra money he'd offered, he stomps out of the house.   Melfi recieves another message on her answering machine from Tony. He asks her to call him back, but this time not to try and convince her to have dinner. Instead he wants to discuss potentially coming back to therapy. She sighs, torn between a desire to help (and let's be frank, the second-hand excitement from experiencing his life from a "safe" perspective) and her mixed relief when she was rid of him. But if he truly needs help and is willing to change.... she asks herself, like who knows how many women she herself has counseled in the past after going back to relationships that were bad for them. At Junior's, lunch is being made for him, Bobby and the cook: Feech La Manna. Played by veteran actor Robert Loggia, Feech is one of those 1980s mob figures currently being released from prison as well as a contemporary of Johnny Boy and Junior Soprano. It was his poker game that Tony and Jackie robbed to make their names and establish they had stepped up, and now he's back. Cooking a meal for Junior, he seems a far cry from the angry old "mustache Pete" described by Ralph Cifaretto. He's funny, charming, and has an obvious love for storytelling. He cracks a joke at Bobby about his weight that is clearly not meanspirited and Bobby takes it in its intended spirit, not offended like he was by Tony's similar jokes in earlier seasons. He's amused if taken aback by some of the changes since he went away, most particularly the fact that women shave their pubic hair now. Settling down at the table and pouring some wine as he leaves his sauce to simmer, he enthusiastically settles in to telling them a story about his first day in prison. As he starts it up, they're distracted by the cellar door closing, and Junior assumes it is Tony coming to visit. He's right, Tony comes up and greets Feech happily, Feech thrilled at how big the kid he once knew has become. Tony settles in at the table as Bobby prepares to dish up the meal, commenting about Junior's desire for secret codes and rituals now that he's once again under house arrest while awaiting a new trial - if he'd hoped that the mistrial would convince the Government to abandon the expense of another trial, he was wrong. With everybody settled back in, Feech goes back to telling his story about attacking the biggest, blackest inmate he could find and putting a savage beating on him to ensure nobody would gently caress with him for the rest of his time in prison. They're all delighted by his story, but none moreso than Feech who seems more alive than ever when retelling stories not only of his glory, but the pleasure he took from inflicting physical violence. Maybe Ralph's stories weren't too far off the mark after all. Tony offers a toast and welcomes Feech home, and after they knock back the wine Feech brings up the purpose for his visit to Junior, happy that Tony is there too. Now that he is out of prison, he's eager to get back into business: loan-sharking, a sports-book, whatever he can do. He's polite, he's charming, he's eager to point out that he is happy to do whatever they are happy to let him do: this isn't him trying to tell them what's what, he's following protocol and rank and coming to them for their blessing. Tony, careful to maintain the illusion that Junior is still the Boss (and also wanting to gauge his Uncle's reaction to Feech) waits for Junior's nod before agreeing, with a smiling warning not to step on anybody's toes. Feech is quick to agree, and all seems good until Junior asks what is going on with the bear at Tony's house... and lets him know that he heard it from Feech. Tony is pissed, why is that the subject of anybody's gossip? Feech is quick to say he only heard about it because people were worried about Tony's wife and kids being up there, then makes his first misstep by trying to qualify the statement by identifying Carmela as Tony's "ex-wife, whatever". Tony wants to know who and of course Feech isn't going to say, and now Tony is seething about what he believes is an implied question about his manhood, about his lack of action to protect his wife... hell, about the fact that people aren't even sure if Carmela IS his wife anymore. What's he supposed to do, go up there and set traps himself? There's an uncomfortable silence around the table, how the hell do you answer a question like that without insulting him?   Adriana is ironing the laundry when a dressed up Christopher comes by and starts going through her purse for money. He's not using again, and he's extremely open about what he needs the money for. He's going out to dinner with several of the higher ups, and as low-man-at-the-table he is expected to pay for everything. Adriana is irritated by this and Christopher acknowledges he is too, but it's the way things are and always has been. But she thinks it is ridiculous, Paulie should pay... after all, when he was in jail Chris got all the extra responsibilities and stepped up, so surely he should get some of the privileges that go with that too? Christopher admits that this isn't entirely without reason, and gives her a kiss goodbye and a promise he'll say hello to everybody from her. At Carmela's home the doorbell rings and she's surprised to see Benny there. She warmly invites him, the days of being disappointed to see him rather than Furio are long behind her, but she does get disgruntled when she learns Tony sent him up to trade off with Little Paulie to keep watch in case the bear comes back. She tries to send him away but he is insistent, saying Tony even instructed him to get the rifle from the "closet", and adds in that he agrees with Tony that if it was his family under threat of a bear attack he'd want a male around the house too. He promises they'll call Fish and Game if the bear arrives and the gun is "just in case", and reluctantly she concedes. She does want him to sit in the house at least but he says Tony instructed him to sit outside, and he has his Sony to listen to so he'll be all right. He takes the gun (the same one she menaced Meadow with back in season 1) from the opened pillar and heads outside, saying he already ate dinner before he arrived when she offers to at least make him a plate. Meanwhile, Tony "old school believer in marriage" Soprano has his arm draped over his girlfriend Valentina as he sits at dinner with Silvio, Feech, Christopher, Paulie and three other girls hired on for the night. Paulie is holding forth on why all the bears should be wiped out like the dinosaurs were, causing an amusing misinterpretation when his "date" asks if it was a meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs and he explains they were meat-eaters. Christopher won't let this amusing mistake slide though, snidely correcting him. The bill arrives and Paulie and Christopher both stare it down as Feech, Silvio and Tony - long past having to worry about being Low Man - get ready to leave with their girls. Christopher gets up too, saying he has to use the bathroom, and when Paulie reminds him he has to pay the bill he calmly retorts that Paulie can get it since he got the last one. Paulie's eyes bug out as he watches Christopher go, while Silvio confidently explains to everybody that bears can't run downhill for "some reason" (the moss, Feech suggests) and they all start to have a debate about whether bears or jungle cats attack women on their period. Tony wants to know if they're good to go and Paulie grumpily gives him the all-clear, and everybody leaves the table. Christopher, sanity having prevailed, returns and tries to pay the bill but now it is a matter of principle for Paulie who refuses to let him. Christopher throws up his arms, and that is surely the end of that.  Or not! The next day at Satriale's, Paulie peels up and lays on the horn until Christopher walks over, at which point he demands the money for the bill. He ignores Christopher's protest that he tried to pay and Paulie wouldn't let him, demanding the money right now. Chris only has $100 on him so Paulie warns him he has till tonight to pay the rest or he'll start being charged points. Tony has enjoyed a pleasant day of golf with Carmine Lupertazzi and Johnny Sack, the problems from last year over HUD and the Esplanade apparently long since buried. They're joined by Angelo Garepe, fresh out of jail and just happy to be outside and eating a good lunch, not bothered about whether he'll play a round next time or not. As they joke about, Johnny notices that Carmine - who is breathing heavily - has barely touched his egg salad. Carmine complains there is too much gherkin and asks if any of them can smell burning hair. They can't, and the conversation turns to Tony Blundetto, with Angelo happily telling Tony that he was his best friend in prison. But as they discuss the party Tony will be throwing, Carmine suddenly keels over, egg salad trapped in his mouth, struggling to breathe as they rush to his side and Tony yells at one of the waiters to call an ambulance. In Miami, Little Carmine is relaxing in his pool when his phone rings. Picking up, he's happy to hear from Johnny and asks how the weather is, but his tune changes immediately when he hears his father has had a stroke. Surprisingly he asks pertinent and relevant questions: how bad is it? Is his mother there? He says he will be on the next plane and they're to provide Carmine anything he needs, and he hangs up and leaps out of the pool and into the action. Back in Jersey, Johnny hangs up, sitting smoking in the hospital chapel with Tony. With his duty to inform Little Carmine out of the way, Johnny's mind is now working on a different track. He brings up to Tony that he's still upset about the collapse of their little arrangement the year before, and Tony reminds him yet again that calling it off after the Esplanade deal was made was the right call: killing a Boss without any justifiable reason would have been a disaster. Johnny isn't mollified but he lets it go, though he does ponder out loud just what Carmine's speech possibly being affected could mean. His implication is clear: he still has his eyes on the top prize, and now he might have the means to grab it even if Carmine is still alive. Benny drives Tony home, and Tony takes the opportunity to "casually" ask questions about what goes on up at the house nowadays: who calls on the phone? Who comes around to visit. He likes the answers he gets: Carmela's only visitors are Rosalie Aprile and Gabrielle Dante, and the calls are mostly for AJ. Almost immediately we flash to a scene of Tony making love to a woman, or rather a woman making love to Tony. Sitting on top of him, riding him in ecstasy, the camera pans up to reveal the face of Dr. Melfi. It is a dream, of course, but the dreamer is a surprise. It's not a fantasy by Tony, but a dream by Melfi herself, who wakes up utterly shocked by its sexual nature. Tony returns to therapy as promised, but he's dressed in a suspiciously dapper suit and he doesn't take a seat when she offers it to him. Seated herself, she can only stare in dread at the slow-motion car crash as Tony explains the real reason he came here was to confront her.... in a positive way! Pausing for a moment, she gathers herself and then handles it as professionally as possible by asking him why he chose to be underhanded, making surely to express that she finds this particularly unappealing. Tony's answer is simple while also demonstrating just how little self-awareness he had, he didn't just invite her out to a coffee because he thought she'd say no! The fact she'd have said no wasn't a cause for concern or a sign he should NOT ask, it was just an obstacle to get around to try and get what HE wanted, of course. He says he'll still pay for the house but she dismisses that, then listens in horror as he eagerly explains that he watched Dr. Phil who did a show on a similar case and said there was actually nothing in writing that forbade her from seeing a former patient. This, of course, is not the point and she says as much, so Tony finally takes a seat, but this time on the couch so he can be closer to her. He lists off a series of "moves" he thought about making, all of which sound to him like something out of a romantic comedy and to her like the actions of a deranged stalker. But in this office they were always the most honest with each other and that's what he wants, and in that spirit he tries to set the terms by saying he'll stop bothering her if she tells him honestly that she doesn't like him or doesn't think he has a nice face or something. Basically he is putting her on the spot, relying on a fear of social awkwardness to force her into agreeing to a date where he can then break her down to get what he ultimately wants. What DOES he ultimately want? There are any number of reasons that aren't mutually exclusive for why he could desire her, not least of which is the projection she warned him about the last time he came on to her, or hell just the fact he finds her attractive. I'd say there is something to be said though for him NEEDING to turn her into a sexual being. She is the one woman who he has exposed himself to on an emotional level without ever having the traditional male/female physical relationship with. With Carmela, she was his wife and the mother of his children, and so there was an element of domination/possession he felt that allowed him to reduce her/pigeonhole her. With his various girlfriends he used them for sex till he got bored and then moved on. With his mother there was no sex of course but he also never opened himself up to her because he feared her and the unshakeable dominant position she held in his mind. But Melfi isn't somebody he screws, she isn't somebody he can throw money at, and he NEEDS to turn her into another conquest, something he can control even if only in his mind. Melfi has a different idea. She assures him that she does like him and she does think he has a nice face.... but rather than giving a reason why she won't date him, she instead asks him to examine himself and tell her why it is so important to him that they do. She ignores his protest it is just because of her attractiveness and says her training indicates this is really a way for him to express his true desire to return to therapy. She reminds him that his marriage has collapsed, he has issues with his children, all reasons to require therapy again. Incredibly, Tony complains that he wishes he could just do something for himself "for a change", a claim so astonishing I'm shocked the roof doesn't rip off and a lightning bolt from God doesn't strike him dead. But she doesn't mock the clearly ridiculous comment, instead just telling him a return to therapy WOULD be for him. But Tony doesn't want to hear that, and drawing close he turns on all his considerable (but here creepy) charm and explains he wants her, her skin, her mouth, her eyes. Stunned, she falls back on what she told him before, that he's simply projecting qualities onto her and he doesn't actually know her at all. But he's tired of listening, so like he's seen in all those romantic comedies he just grabs her and passionately kisses her. Pulling away, he stares at her with satisfaction waiting for her to melt... and she stares at him with horror and quietly but firmly tells him,"Don't do that." His fantasy punctured, he steps back and tries to contain his building tantrum. He says he won't "out of respect for this office", but he can't resist firing off on her. Eyes narrowing, he demands she forget how he makes his way in the world (which is just to feed his children, he openly lies while probably absolutely believing it) and acknowledge that there are two Tony Sopranos, and he wants to show her the other one. He turns and leaves, and Melfi lets out of a deep breath of both relief and fear. Consider all this from her point of view. This hulking mobster has returned into her life determined to make her his, he is unaware of how monstrous he is acting, in fact he thinks it is romantic. Even if she hadn't been the victim of rape before it would be enormously frightening, and Tony's actions have left her shaken to the core.   Little Paulie takes a turn with the gun on bear-watch outside Tony's house, but he's far more jumpy than Benny. When he hears twigs snap he leaps up with gun drawn, but doesn't see anything. Knocking on the door, he asks Carmela if he can use the bathroom, pretending everything is fine as he sets the rifle against the wall which is surely the safest place for it. Once in the bathroom (she never got that wallpaper redone), he peers nervously out the window for any sign of the bear, reading TV Guide and delaying having to return outside as long as possible. Melfi has a session with Elliot where she laments the situation with Tony, especially as she knows he isn't going to stop coming back till he can get what he wants. But she rejects out-of-hand his suggestion she call the police, and condescendingly thanks him when he points out that without therapy she is of no use to Tony outside of sex. But he won't back down, he thinks Tony is a sociopath at worst and a thug at best who isn't used to handling rejection. Melfi admits that when she first met Tony she found him a little sexy, but she is under no illusions about her recent sex dream uncovering any kind of hidden feelings. Because as the years passed and she saw more and more of Tony, the utter ugliness of his life and his values quickly washed away any residual appeal he had. She kept him as a patient out of a sense of mutual sympathy (she will probably never admit there was also an appeal to the detached front-row seat she had to his life without having to face any danger). Elliot agrees she worked hard and kept him on as a patient, but suggests that maybe the attachment she feels is nothing more than the fact they're both Italian. Christopher comes to see Tony in the back office of the Bada Bing at Tony's request, asking if this is about "the Easter baskets". Tony admits he has no idea what that means and doesn't want to know, gaving tacit approval for what he knows must be dozens of hidden scams the men below him are running. No he wants to talk to him about Paulie, wanting to know why he made Paulie pay for the meal? Christopher is upset, saying it isn't fair that he has to always pay for all the meals when he's been doing it for years now. Tony is disgusted, reminding him of what Christopher already told Adriana: this is the way it has always been. Tony had to fork out endless amounts of money for the likes of Richie Aprile and Jerry Anastasia, and one day somebody lower on the totem pole will be paying for all of Christopher's meals too. He ignores Christopher's protest about inflation, talking about the Low Man system as a sign of respect, which is what everybody on the top of a pyramid scheme always says. Christopher is put to the test soon after when they all head out to Atlantic City for a meal. This is a much bigger evening than the previous: present are Tony, Johnny Sack, Carlo Gervasi, Silvio, Ray Curto and of course Paulie. The table is piled with plates of food and booze as Paulie regales the table with dirty jokes and everybody but Christopher laughs uproariously. Paulie is a wonderful host, asking people if they want desert, eager for everybody to eat. Not just at their table but a nearby one too, where a group of older woman are very thankful that Paulie sent over a bottle of Cristal for them to enjoy, his thanks for the enjoyment he has had looking at them all night. "Get some glasses" mutters Christopher under his breath, while Tony excuses himself briefly from the table and Silvio follows to check he's okay, as he's been unusually quiet. Tony admits something is on his mind, but it's not a bad thing... he's got a broad on his mind and he thinks it might the real deal. In a dialogue exchange almost as disturbing as Tony and Silvio discussing the predatory loans Silvio uses to keep his strippers in line, Tony explains the girl in question THINKS their relationship is platonic but it's not, and he's frustrated that no amount of convincing will change her mind. Silvio takes this all in without blinking, this all seems completely fine by him.   Everybody else has left the table to head to the casino and play craps. Only Paulie and Christopher are left, and Paulie directs the unctuous waiter to hand over the bill to Christopher. Not before he checks the amount himself though and chuckles with glee at the total: $1184 for the table. Frustrated, Christopher empties his pockets to cover the amount and then heads out to his car, followed by Paulie who just can't stop rubbing his nose in it as he ponders whether he'll hire a hooker (presumably Christopher is paying the hotel bills too?) to help him work off the meal. That's enough for Christopher who grunts he could save money by loving himself, and Paulie is immediately outraged: Low Man doesn't get digs in, Low Man takes them! They get into it, Christopher furious about Paulie deliberately running up the bill to gently caress with him. As they shout and scream at each other in the dark, deserted parking lot, the waiter from inside approaches nervously and speaks up just as Paulie is lunging for Christopher, asking if there was a problem with the service. The waiter is upset but hopeful, after spending a long night rushing about fulfilling their every request they left him with a mere $16, a mere 1.3% tip - perhaps they miscalculated? Both the mobsters are bewildered and warn him to go back inside, Christopher explaining he only had $1200 on him. The waiter of course was expecting about a 15% tip and is understandably upset, something that completely fails to register with Christopher who can't see who the real "Low Man" is here. The waiter is pissed, he has kids and a family to support, and Paulie and Christopher are a united front telling him to gently caress off before he gets hurt. Fill of wounded pride, the waiter turns on his heel and stomps off with a final aside that they can go piss away their money at blackjack like the loving assholes they are. "WOOOOAAAAH!" Paulie and Christopher proclaim, and as the waiter leaves Christopher grabs a bottle off the ground and tosses it at the back of his head, hitting the target. The waiter grabs at the back of his head as Christopher triumphantly asks if he has anything to say now... and the waiter collapses to the ground and starts seizing, paralyzed in the face and limbs locked and twitching. They're surprised, looking in confusion down at the seizing waiter, and an unsympathetic Christopher asks if "these assholes" aren't supposed to have medicine they should take. The waiter is surely painfully aware during all of this as he lays helpless on the ground staring up into the sky, with Paulie's only thought that he'll tell the authorities they hit him with a brick. He looks about, sees there is nobody around, and without hesitation pulls out a gun and shoots the poor bastard who only wanted a reasonable tip in the chest, killing him. They race away to their cars, Paulie making a point of grabbing the cash from the bill before he goes, and Christopher yelling after him a reminder that it is HIS money. Johnny's trip to Atlantic City complete, he returns to St. Vincent's hospital and meets with Little Carmine at Carmine's bedside. They embrace, Johnny promising Little Carmine everything that can be done is being done, and accepts without reservation Little Carmine's acknowledgement that Johnny was like another son to Carmine. He certainly feels like an inheritance is due at least, already thinking past Carmine to the future. The next day Christopher reads a book on the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous when his phone rings. It is Paulie, who wonders if he slept well after last night after that hosed up situation. He himself isn't worried about the cops, nobody down there knew who they were (plus the bill, which ultimately wasn't paid, was in cash). What he's really calling for though is to bury the hatchet, the sudden unexpected death of the waiter (by his hands!) make Paulie realize life is too short to waste it fighting with friends, one of them could have got hurt last night! Christopher agrees, and they both admit the other is special to them. They agree to split the cash from the unpaid bill, and Christopher offers a final apology which Paulie accepts. They hang up, all once again right with the world, and everybody is happy. Well, not the dead waiter's family probably, but they've probably already forgotten he exists until it comes time to tell Vito and Patsy another funny story.   Melfi completes a group therapy session and sends her patients on their way. As they move through the waiting room though, she spots a nervous Tony Soprano present. Bracing herself, she greets him but steps into the waiting room rather than invite them into her office. He hands her an envelope and with increasing desperation tries to spin a story about a friend not needing them and giving them to him. They're tickets to Bermuda and lodging at the Elbow Beach Hotel, and he thought the two of them could go? She's taken aback, and tells him the exact reason why: he made a nice (well, terrifying) invitation to dinner that she declined so he jumped straight to asking her to travel overseas with her? Tony tries to maintain the facade but falls apart, lamenting that she's made him break out the big guns for nothing and he feels like SHE is turning him into "half-a-stalker". So Melfi foregoes all pretense and tells him directly to his face: "I'm not going to go out with you, okay?" It's not okay, of course, and his body language shows how furious he is as she puts it in a nice light but doubles down on the fact that she. is. not. going. to. go. out. with. him. Offering him the envelope back, he petulantly snatches it back, then puts on a big false grin and agrees with her but forces the issue, saying it's not JUST because of the ethical reason she gave before, right? She tells him that her primary interest is in maintaining the door to his returning to therapy and a personal relationship would prevent that, but he keeps pushing her for more. So she admits that as his therapist she tried her very best to never judge him personally, as that was not her role. But in a personal relationship? She couldn't do that. This gets to Tony, this upsets him. What does she mean? What couldn't she keep silent about? Not wanting to upset him further OR put herself at risk, she tries to be diplomatic by saying they have different values but that isn't enough, he wants specifics. He's the guy who thinks if he forces you to explain yourself enough he can counter some specific thing, negate it and then get what he wanted in the first place even though Melfi has now rejected him multiple times. She tries to get rid of him by saying it is late but, that scary smile plastered all over his face now, he assures her he can handle it and he wants to know which of his values don't mesh with hers. So she does: he's not truthful, he doesn't respect women or even really people. He might love them, but he takes what he wants from them by force or the threat or force. Warming to the topic now, she rants that she couldn't live like that, couldn't bear witness to violence and not speak up. And Tony Soprano, who happily assured her he could handle the truth, screams,"gently caress YOU!" in her face and storms out, slamming the door behind him and bellowing out,"YOU'RE A loving oval office!" Melfi is stunned, but she has accomplished what she set out to do. There can be no doubt now from Tony that she wasn't playing hard to get, and his feelings for her - projected or otherwise - have now changed. Maybe he won't return to therapy, but certainly he won't be coming around with baskets of flowers or plane tickets to Bermuda either.   Tony drives through the night, livid with rage, boiling with emotion. There's no Zellman to go beat with a belt this time, where does his rage and anger go? He has an idea at least, some outlet, and he drives to what was once the home he shared with Carmela. Pushing his rage down for the moment, he walks in and when she sees him she just gives a mild,"Oh" and goes back to her cleaning in the kitchen. Benny has only just arrived and is on the phone with his girlfriend before going out, and Tony sees the gun on the table. In spite of his disturbing behavior towards Melfi, there is no sense that Tony is going to snap and take out his aggression on the other woman he felt emotionally open to who had rejected him. Him spotting the gun doesn't set off any red flags, rather it poses an opportunity to him, the one he REALLY came around to take advantage of. When Benny returns to the kitchen and greets Tony, Tony tells him to take the night off, he intends to take over for tonight. Benny tries to tell him he's fine but Tony insists, and Carmela thanks him as he heads out. Tony doesn't talk to Carmela, he just cocks the gun and heads outside. Settling into a deck chair, he lights a cigar and smokes it, and Carmela steps out to ask him if he'd like a coffee. He declines and she goes back inside without another word. Tony sits on the chair smoking, gun in hand, feeling like he is protecting the the woman inside the house who even now doesn't question his violent nature. EmmyLou Harris plays again as he sits, half-hoping the bear will come and he will have an excuse to take out his aggression by killing it. It's okay if it doesn't though, here Tony Soprano feels useful, functional and needed. Perhaps, in some odd way, he even feels loved.  Season 5: Two Tonys | Rat Pack | Where's Johnny? | All Happy Families... | Irregular Around the Margins | Sentimental Education | In Camelot | Marco Polo | Unidentified Black Males | Cold Cuts | The Test Dream | Long Term Parking | All Due Respect Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3 | Season 4 | Season 5 | Season 6.1 | Season 6.2 Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Sep 10, 2019 14:27
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In a show full of terrible acts killing the waiter and stealing the meal money back stands out as especially callous and heartless. It feels very Coen brothers in the senseless brutality and the bleak humor of Paulie and Christopher having no idea what to do to help the waiter other than shooting him dead. It's also another example in a long line of them of how even people uninvolved in the mob life suffer when they briefly come into contact with mobsters. It also makes Melfi's decision to chase Tony away look better in light of the fact that everything those people touch leads to suffering.
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Sep 10, 2019 18:22
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Imo lawn wars was nastier.
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Sep 10, 2019 18:45
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The only newly added character that bugs me here is Buscemi's. It just feels forced. I originally thought it was because of his fame but I think it has more to do with the idea that he and Tony are supposed to be super close somehow. Feech and Phil just seem like old school guys who went away for a while but Tony B's return is supposed to be this big triumphant return of an old cousin and it just doesn't work. Also, is it true that Loggia was supposed to be around longer but was bounced for being an rear end in a top hat and not remembering his lines? I've heard rumors but never confirmation.
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Sep 11, 2019 13:35
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BiggerBoat posted:Also, is it true that Loggia was supposed to be around longer but was bounced for being an rear end in a top hat and not remembering his lines? I've heard rumors but never confirmation. I think Chase has debunked rumours that he was supposed to stick around longer, though I wouldn't be surprised that they altered his story a bit. I always thought it was weird when Feech asks Tony B if he can speak candidly about 'the boy king' only for us to never hear what he had to say. I know he gets interrupted by LAWN WARS but it always felt to me that that scene never got finished. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45uLNBYwh3I This is the scene.
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Sep 11, 2019 13:41
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I haven't heard anything about Loggia being a jerk, but according to Brett Martin's book he was definitely forgetting his lines. That said I totally buy his appearance being a short one to show Tony's gotten smarter as Boss and isn't letting nostalgia keep potential trouble around. Of course the thing with Tony B, whatever happened there, shows Tony only does that whenever it doesn't affect him too personally.
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Sep 11, 2019 13:51
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Vichan posted:I always thought it was weird when Feech asks Tony B if he can speak candidly about 'the boy king' only for us to never hear what he had to say. I know he gets interrupted by LAWN WARS but it always felt to me that that scene never got finished. I read this as Feech getting a little too comfortable and open with his insubordination- in some ways it's probably better Tony B doesn't hear what he has to say, and we are merely to infer that it's something negative.
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Sep 11, 2019 14:22
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Tony Bs sudden appearance doesn't really bother me because in many instances that's how people deal with a close friend/relative going away for such a long time. They're not around, after a while they're not even thought of very often, and so as years go by it's almost like they don't exist.
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Sep 11, 2019 15:22
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I still can't believe they couldn't find a candid pic of Buscemi in the 80's or something instead of just tossing a pic of him in black and white up on the screen. I know it's a super little thing, but I always hated it.
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Sep 11, 2019 16:09
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I mean its not like the show isn't a little aware of Tony B showing up out of nowhere and people do mention it like Bobby's son. "How come I've never heard of you"?
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Sep 11, 2019 16:56
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Solice Kirsk posted:I still can't believe they couldn't find a candid pic of Buscemi in the 80's or something instead of just tossing a pic of him in black and white up on the screen. I know it's a super little thing, but I always hated it. They could've used a still from the Search for One-Eyed Jimmy (also featuring Tony Sirico) to similar effect
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Sep 11, 2019 17:14
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Tony B is the most got a well known actor need to shoehorn him in somewhere character ever. It’s also kind of hilarious because you know how his story is gonna end you just got to figure out how they get there
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Sep 11, 2019 18:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:Tony B is the most got a well known actor need to shoehorn him in somewhere character ever. Yea if anything that's the part that always annoys me about Tony B, not his intro to the show. He's on the right path, he seems happy and motivated to do things the right way and then...... Without getting into specific spoilers I just didn't buy his sudden implosion.
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Sep 11, 2019 19:58
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Tony Sirico does look older and tired, but he's also seventy-seven years old. He's still pretty sharp though. When I used to live in Bay Ridge in Brooklyn, I'd see him two or three times a month at the bodega up the corner from our place because he lives in the area. He'd always greet me with a "Hey kid, how you doin'?" before picking up his coffee, bagel, and the New York Post. EDIT: I'm behind on the recaps, but has anyone else mentioned going to the Sopranos con in New Jersey in November? My best friend and I got tickets as soon as we found out about it. https://www.sopranoscon.com/ Check out who will be there. Pope Corky the IX fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 20:21
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PIE-O-MY.
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Sep 11, 2019 20:31
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Yeah, that had me looking up how long horses live because it seemed impossible.
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Sep 11, 2019 20:33
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Lol at coach molinaro and bada bing stripper being there.
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Sep 11, 2019 22:18
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Are we worried about spoilers in this thread? The Wire thread was up front about not giving a poo poo. If so, sorry for the several I've posted already. CharlestheHammer posted:Tony B is the most got a well known actor need to shoehorn him in somewhere character ever. Not gonna lie but I feel the same way and I can't shake it. The whole side story with him felt crammed in and I couldn't feel invested in it all. The emotional weight I was meant to feel with Tony haranguing about how to deal with the situation that developed and the ultimate conclusion just wasn't earned at all. The "gently caress you, he's my fuckin' cousin/I'm not givin' him up" exchange later brushed up as dangerously close to corny as the show ever got and that line was a hard sell. For a while I thought it was just down to a "HEY! It's Steve Buscemi! Let's jam him in here" situation but Phil Leotardo and Feech didn't bother me at all for some reason, even though they're recognizable actors, and I think even if it had been someone other lesser known Goodfellas actor like Frank Sivero I'd have felt the same, so that wasn't it. Leotardo and Feech just seemed like mobsters who went away that no one really talked about, like someone else mentioned, but Tony B was meant to have this pivotal role in Tony's life and after 4 seasons and it's just...suddenly... brought up and we just buy it. No flashbacks. It never even came up in therapy. They're written as super close and Tony has all these regrets and guilt and poo poo but I never bought their bond. "Show, don't tell" and all that I guess. Pope Corky the IX posted:Tony Sirico I wonder how many people go up to him and say hi or tell a joke and then go, "Hey, Tone, You hear what I said? I said 'hi' or told a joke" heheheh
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Sep 12, 2019 02:16
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BiggerBoat posted:Are we worried about spoilers in this thread? The Wire thread was up front about not giving a poo poo. Nah, definitely not, we've all seen this. I asked awhile ago if I should try to avoid getting too far ahead of the thread (not even because of spoilers, just because we have a focus on each episode and we'll get there eventually) and the thread response was "gently caress it say whatever you want"
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Sep 12, 2019 02:21
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anyone else pick up on the creepy vibes tony b gave off to meadow as the season progressed, i love how that's never explored we're just left with these gazes that last a little too long.
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Sep 12, 2019 09:48
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Basebf555 posted:Without getting into specific spoilers I just didn't buy his sudden implosion. We did get this out of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9TlKj7rLbA&t=57s HI-YA! gh0stpinballa posted:anyone else pick up on the creepy vibes tony b gave off to meadow as the season progressed, i love how that's never explored we're just left with these gazes that last a little too long. I always like to think she reminds him of his daughter.
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Sep 12, 2019 09:53
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Pope Corky the IX posted:Yeah, that had me looking up how long horses live because it seemed impossible. If they don’t die from seeing the colour blue accidentally, or stepping on a flower wrong, they live a super long time.
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Sep 12, 2019 10:01
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Vichan posted:I always like to think she reminds him of his daughter. Yeah, I always figured he was thinking about how Kelly might have turned out if he'd been around. He makes a comment to that effect to Tony shortly after he gets out of prison about how how things could have been different, but Tony of course is so wrapped up in his guilt that he assumes Tony B means he wishes their roles had been reversed, as opposed to thinking Meadow was lucky to have a father around.
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Sep 12, 2019 10:23
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Also with regard to Tony B, although it’s impossible to reconcile a cousin important enough to risk open war with New York over, yet have him never be mentioned, visited, or even referred to obliquely, I have no issue with Tony telling Johnny Sack to gently caress himself. Tony doesn’t like being stood over by anyone, and he has zero impulse control and a hair trigger temper… “I choose not to” with that smug expression of absolute power would make anyone flip out.
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Sep 12, 2019 10:38
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Jerusalem posted:Yeah, I always figured he was thinking about how Kelly might have turned out if he'd been around. He makes a comment to that effect to Tony shortly after he gets out of prison about how how things could have been different, but Tony of course is so wrapped up in his guilt that he assumes Tony B means he wishes their roles had been reversed, as opposed to thinking Meadow was lucky to have a father around. That's my take, too. I think he even comments on how amazing Meadow turned out (well, from his not super close perspective).
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Sep 12, 2019 14:28
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