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Spergatory posted:This plot is such a loving shambles, it's honestly a miracle that this game ever came out at all. It's so abundantly clear that Nomura has the attention span of a mercury-exposed goldfish and constantly just tacks stuff onto the ends of his plots whenever he gets what he thinks is a cool idea, all while trying (and failing) to pass it off as if "no, really, this was totally part of the plot the whole time, just you wait until I reveal the true MASTER PLAN that has been in place from the very beginning!" I mean, this is the guy who saw Les Miserables in theaters and came back to the office wanting to make FFvXIII into a musical for Christ's sake. He approaches plot the same way he approaches character design; when in doubt, just add more belts and zippers. Keep adding until it works. Never take anything away, never try to pare anything down or edit. Excess! Glorious excess! You can never have too much of too much! Sir, please, this is a Hungry Jack's drive through
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Feb 3, 2019 05:43
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Spergatory posted:This plot is such a loving shambles, it's honestly a miracle that this game ever came out at all. It's so abundantly clear that Nomura has the attention span of a mercury-exposed goldfish and constantly just tacks stuff onto the ends of his plots whenever he gets what he thinks is a cool idea, all while trying (and failing) to pass it off as if "no, really, this was totally part of the plot the whole time, just you wait until I reveal the true MASTER PLAN that has been in place from the very beginning!" I mean, this is the guy who saw Les Miserables in theaters and came back to the office wanting to make FFvXIII into a musical for Christ's sake. He approaches plot the same way he approaches character design; when in doubt, just add more belts and zippers. Keep adding until it works. Never take anything away, never try to pare anything down or edit. Excess! Glorious excess! You can never have too much of too much! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8nNH6h5nJg
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Feb 3, 2019 05:45
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Man, if Nomura had ever actually wanted to make FFXV into a musical he'd be way cooler.
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Feb 3, 2019 05:52
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Man, if Nomura had ever actually wanted to make FFXV into a musical he'd be way cooler. https://m.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/e3-2013-final-fantasy-xv-was-almost-a-musical
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Feb 3, 2019 05:57
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Spergatory posted:https://m.ign.com/articles/2013/06/13/e3-2013-final-fantasy-xv-was-almost-a-musical Yeah that was a joke taken out of context and made a news story.
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Feb 3, 2019 05:59
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When that interview came out I remember hearing a bunch of things things saying Nomura didn't actually say that or whatever. I'd be very happy if it was actually true though.
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Feb 3, 2019 06:00
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Given his approach to literally everything else, it wouldn't surprise me either way. My understanding is that the entire reason FFvXIII never came out (and was eventually taken away from him) was because he kept changing poo poo, and adding more poo poo, and his ever expanding scope combined with his inconsistent vision basically made any real progress towards a finished game impossible. Do I have that right, or was it something else?
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Feb 3, 2019 06:06
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led me to this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW0wjcS7-00 which had me me giggling for a good while.
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Feb 3, 2019 06:09
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Spergatory posted:Given his approach to literally everything else, it wouldn't surprise me either way. My understanding is that the entire reason FFvXIII never came out (and was eventually taken away from him) was because he kept changing poo poo, and adding more poo poo, and his ever expanding scope combined with his inconsistent vision basically made any real progress towards a finished game impossible. Do I have that right, or was it something else? That would be something else. FFvXIII was basically a project doomed from the start by square being the company it was and is. A more detailed post is reserved for a time in not phone posting. EDIT: Okay, so Nobuo Uematsu once said, regarding Final Fantasy VI that, Every Final Fantasy is a collection of ideas smashed together and obviously incomplete. Because even at that point, Square had severe troubles managing their actual dev cycles, which only got worse as gens increased. It came to a head honestly at the end of the PS2, where FFXII took 6 years and 3 directors to get out the door, with obvious cut content and not nearly matching up with what had been promised for it. And that was the beginning of Squares troubles. To be blunt, From FFXIII onwards, internal Square Development resembles something like a terrifying web of loving nonsense yanked about by a complete inability to proceed. From FFXIII's "We barely got this game out and we basically created so much stuff that we had plenty of pre-made assets for two whole sequels" Type-0's "Agito for Cellphones, no wait, we're on PSP now" FFXIV... hahahahaha, man, until loving Fallout 76 this year, this and TOR were like the Gold Standard of "We've hosed up beyond all recognition." So the short version of the reason FFvXIII was doomed was... Nomura basically never had time to work on it. He made like 6 Kingdom Hearts games, Was the creative producer on TWEWY, Dissidia... actually yeah let's just bring this up.    Looking just at his executive roles (Creative Producer and Direct) he's responsible for 27 projects in the past 13 years. Now, some of them have been cashgrab garbage like All The Bravest, but even discounting that it's nearly two games per year... At what point was he meant to be working on vXIII? And even if you pause and go "Okay well I don't think he was massively involved in all of them." Do remember that XIII itself and XIV both hosed the bed so badly, they basically cannibalized Square Enix's development teams to get out the door. And in the latters case to get fixed up. So let's address the elephant "But they pulled him from FFXV because of all the development issues." Well... let's consider something. If he really hosed up that badly, why the hell would not just continue to employ him, but then give him a project like FF7:RE A project, which to be clear, he himself didn't think he was that involved with since he wasn't that involved with the original FFVII, a project he'd repeatedly responded to in interviews with what amounted to "I never made FF7, why would I make the remake?" So when you actually sit down and look at all the information behind it, it's less, "How did it fail" and more "How could it ever loving succeed?" And honestly, from his own comments in the lead up to KH3, Verum Rex and the Secret trailer, Nomura really reads as extremely bitter and legitimately upset at how poo poo the development cycle for Versus was, and how his vision was essentially cut completely. Final Fantasy XV is more the story of how hosed up and still hosed up the corporate culture was and is at Square Enix. They have never had a major, in-house, triple A production that did not go through a similar hell to this. Onmi fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 06:13
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This game’s story has me convinced Nomura has either read Homestuck or if he hasn’t he’d probably have a good time doing it
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Feb 3, 2019 06:57
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Kairi was loving robbed. There's no excuse for stuffing her into the fridge the way she was when you could have had Xehanort kill a fake (Castlevania did it, therefore it's automatically an awesome idea) and give Kairi a playable segment or something beating up Heartless/Nobodies/Unversed/OrgXIII to escape. Bam, Xehanort gets his villain moment and 13th key and Kairi actually gets some badass cred instead of Nomura pulling the "yeeeeees" meme. And SRK should have all been in the final boss fight, dammit. Gen. Ripper fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 07:13
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Axel and Kairi getting keyblades basically contributed nothing at all to the plot at all, it's kind of bewildering.
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Feb 3, 2019 07:16
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Gen. Ripper posted:Kairi was loving robbed. There's no excuse for stuffing her into the fridge the way she was when you could have had Xehanort kill a fake (Castlevania did it, therefore it's automatically an awesome idea) and give Kairi a playable segment or something beating up Heartless/Nobodies/Unversed/OrgXIII to escape. Bam, Xehanort gets his villain moment and 13th key and Kairi actually gets some badass cred instead of Nomura pulling the "yeeeeees" meme. Also it was the weirdest thing because Xehanort's like "You need motivation" and Sora's basically "No motherfucker, I will kill you right here and now, I guarantee you there is no hesitation in my murder boner for you."
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Feb 3, 2019 07:17
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ImpAtom posted:Axel and Kairi getting keyblades basically contributed nothing at all to the plot at all, it's kind of bewildering. nomura needed 7 good guys because 7 is a lucky number in the exotic occident and he is a reverse weeaboo its the same as his fixation on 13, obscure greek letters, and pointless latin
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Feb 3, 2019 07:18
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Gen. Ripper posted:Kairi was loving robbed. There's no excuse for stuffing her into the fridge the way she was when you could have had Xehanort kill a fake and give Kairi a playable segment or something beating up Heartless/Nobodies/Unversed/OrgXIII to escape. Bam, Xehanort gets his villain moment and 13th key and Kairi actually gets some badass cred instead of Nomura pulling the "yeeeeees" meme. I really wanted Kairi to get something this game. Like I even stopped fighting for a minute to watch her work in the first bit of the Saix/Xion fight. She has a like a 4 hit ground combo, she can dodge and cast Fira. She is ready to pull at least party member status if not a playable segment. It honestly feels mean. Hell she was solidly working Xion over for a bit. Onmi posted:Can't she also heal? Caidin fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 07:18
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Caidin posted:I really Kairi to get something this game. Like I even stopped fighting for a minute to watch her work in the first bit of the Saix/Xion fight. She has a like a 4 hit ground combo, she can dodge and cast Fira. She is ready to pull at least party member status if not a playable segment. It honestly feels mean. Can't she also heal?
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Feb 3, 2019 07:19
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Onmi posted:Also it was the weirdest thing because Xehanort's like "You need motivation" and Sora's basically "No motherfucker, I will kill you right here and now, I guarantee you there is no hesitation in my murder boner for you." The dude just hacked through twelve clones of you, MX, I think your main concern now is not pushing him from "I don't like you and want you to lose." to "RAAAAAAAAAGH I'M GONNA FUCKIN GOUGE YOUR EYEBALLS OUT AND SKULLFUCK YOUR GODDAMN CORPSE BEFORE THROWING IT INTO A NUCLEAR EXPLOSION!!!!!".
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Feb 3, 2019 07:20
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to be fair she had also just finished training and her first assignment was to defeat 13 sith lords in mortal combat because yen sid is a motherfucker its like a level 1 run with no abilities equipped
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Feb 3, 2019 07:21
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The Kairi thing is baffling. I know she's never really done anything, but her treatment in this game was beyond the pale even by the standards of the previous Kingdom Hearts games. More than anything, it feels loving lazy. They didn't even try to give her any purpose here.
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Feb 3, 2019 07:21
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Two things Nomura has said that explains a lot about how poorly written KH3 is. One, he basically writes everything himself: --You're writing the scenario yourself? Nomura: When it comes to the scenario, including the script, in the end I write everything myself. That's not just for Toy Box. I haven't made this public before, but after KH2 generally everything was written by me, especially KH 358/2 Days. --I see. I had thought that you assemble the plot, and then the script and other small details were assigned to someone else. Nomura: That is how it was in the beginning. However, ever since KH2, roughly speaking I will create the outline of the scenario myself, and then (Masaru) Oka will take that and create a springboard scenario, including dialogue, that takes into consideration requests from the level design team. Then after that, I write the final manuscript myself. That's the general flow. Other staff have worked on the scenario in the past, but the KH series lore is complicated, and when lots of people are involved it gets hard to keep everyone updated on it all. In the end, I'm the one with the best grasp on it, so that's why we ended up with the style we have today. Two, he admitted he had a tough time writing the story this time around: I had quite a tough time writing the story this time around. So many characters appear in this game, with each of them having their own set of problems and needing to choose their own fate. They are characters that were born over the course of ten plus years, and each character has fans who love them. I ask for everyone to see their stories to the end, and see what each of them grasped from their stories. I rewrote the ending multiple times, and took a lot of time deciding how I want it to play out on the screen. After much thought, I ended up keeping it simple. I believe that KINGDOM HEARTS III is truly completed when the two thoughts - whatever you feel from playing the game, and my thoughts that I’ve secretly placed in the game - match up together. I hope that everyone playing the game will complete the game for us. Dude really needs someone to check his obviously bad impulses. The series has a very bad inclination to jam all the story into the end of the game and Nomura obviously does not give a flying gently caress about female characters especially Kairi.
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Feb 3, 2019 07:22
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Arist posted:The Kairi thing is baffling. I know she's never really done anything, but her treatment in this game was beyond the pale even by the standards of the previous Kingdom Hearts games. More than anything, it feels loving lazy. They didn't even try to give her any purpose here. I mean technically she was the one responsible for making sure Sora could come back to life and apparently was the only one of the group not Lich'd but... y'know, she could have done that from home while eating some chips.
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Feb 3, 2019 07:23
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there are no badly written kingdom hearts games
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Feb 3, 2019 07:23
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ImpAtom posted:I mean technically she was the one responsible for making sure Sora could come back to life and apparently was the only one of the group not Lich'd but... y'know, she could have done that from home while eating some chips. Also, she gets literally iced and no one really seems to care.
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Feb 3, 2019 07:25
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Valleyant posted:Also, she gets literally iced and no one really seems to care. Sora and Riku were pissed off for as long as it took them to each get knocked off MX's dramatic piller. After that they just seemed kinda down.
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Feb 3, 2019 07:29
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Valleyant posted:Also, she gets literally iced and no one really seems to care. Sora and Riku seemed pretty pissed and then Xion was like 'lol she's fine i'm like half kairinort I know these things."
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Feb 3, 2019 07:59
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I couldn't stop myself from laughing, you spend parts of the game getting informed on her training and the previous games build like she's gonna do something and she just gets kidnapped and iced, it's like the most dumb poo poo possible.
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Feb 3, 2019 08:02
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Sora impaled himself on Rikunort's keyblade and that was an important plot sequence. Kairi gets iced and it just means we have a bitchin new world for our final battle.
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Feb 3, 2019 08:09
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You know when you hang out with nerds that want to create a epic story that's basically a bunch of cool and OP OCs and a something plot and you're just nodding along because you don't want to point out the structural problems because it's rude. Nomura is those nerds but with a budget.
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Feb 3, 2019 08:12
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I'm gonna give the controversial opinion Tetsuya Nomura owns
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Feb 3, 2019 08:15
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I agree! Though he should stop making boring female characters
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Feb 3, 2019 08:18
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You're in luck, Larxene's cool.
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Feb 3, 2019 08:19
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agreed, only gay anime boys from now on
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Feb 3, 2019 08:19
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Kairi having no cool moments throughout the game and getting stolen like an apple pie off a windowsill totally sucked. Eight games to finally inch towards actually give her a moment to shine of her own and she's in one fight for a minute before getting kidnapped. Awesome. I was really expecting Lea to be using a Keyblade and his weird spike chakram together but I guess not. I can't believe that Terra-Flare and Ultima exist in this series. And that Final Fantasy is just not going to exist in the series anymore since Square's bored with them now? The combination of Disney and Final Fantasy was what drew me in because it's such a weird combo and also I love 9999 damage. And now we're never gonna get Richard and Kain vs Organization members. That's a drat shame. As clunky as it was done, I did really like the Keyblade Graveyard fights. Mainly because you're finally fighting Organization 13 members despite constantly running into them throughout the game and I couldn't stop wondering when someone would take a swing at the other. I got super sucked in as soon as I finished the last Disney world because everything was suddenly really interesting after the kinda meh plots of those and ended up fading in and out during the climax of the MX fight but where did Terra's Armor run off to?
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Feb 3, 2019 08:19
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So confused by people expecting more out of Nomura than......Nomura being himself. The plot to these games has *always* been bombastic nonsense. Figured it was always part of the charm and that we all just loved KH because it was fun and heartwarming and bizarre. Apparently people wanted him to write a perfectly coherent and extremely woven together story after years of not doing so though. Although I am totally on board with the disappointment surrounding Kairi’s treatment. She had more character and identity in previous entries than she did here. Was an absolute wasted opportunity. GeekyManatee fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 08:22
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I'm really hoping we get a title change at some point to "WHERE DID THE ARMOR GO"
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Feb 3, 2019 08:23
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Tired Moritz posted:I agree! Though he should stop making boring female characters The problem is, as always, that Nomura is only interested in boys having strong emotions about each other. And you know what I'm cool with that but maybe just focus on that in the long run
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Feb 3, 2019 08:24
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Axel still showed enough fight to grab onto Mansex's foot when he was all "Is Xemnas gonna have to choke a bitch?" on Xion when he was literally down on the ground, had gotten pelted by his Limit Break, and was emasculated with a broken keyblade. Kairi just...hangs there. Kick him in the balls or something! I know he's all about not feeling anything, but still, he's gotten his rear end kicked so many times now. If dorky "power of friendshit," Sora could do it, who gets mind hosed in each of the interquel games and still manages to come out strong, no reason she can't.
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Feb 3, 2019 08:27
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I mean who really among the guardians did not get turbo wrecked at the last battle? Mickey ended up useless, Axel got to mouth off about being popular 10 years ago and did his catch phrase before his face got caved in and needed Roxas to save the day. Aqua and Ven were doing fine I think until bullshit chain powers outta nowhere and Terra makes the save, AGAIN. Kairi has been covered. I guess Riku never embarrassed himself. Okay maybe him eating poo poo twice back in the world of darkness was a bit bad. Sora gets cutscene whomped alot but he just kinda soldiers through Honestly you probably could have gotten a more solid performance out of the new princesses, just by virtue of Elsa. Caidin fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 08:38
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so is sora dead, or like what happened there at the end. was it a persona 3 situation
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Feb 3, 2019 08:44
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Yoya posted:so is sora dead, or like what happened there at the end. was it a persona 3 situation "Sora there's a price to pay for abusing the Power of Waking!" "Don't care, I'm going to get Kairi back right now, I'm not going on another scavenger hunt."
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Feb 3, 2019 08:46
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