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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Sir Kodiak posted:

Yeah, Man of Steel being a sci-fi movie about an alien finding his way on Earth, drawing as much from, like, Starman as it does previous Superman works, is one of its big strengths.

I love Man of Steel for how '50s sci-fi it is. Take away the obligatory comic book stuff (which isn't much, really) and your left with Zack Snyder's Teenagers from Outer Space.

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banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004


zombie heist movie? what are they stealing the zombies themselves? whats valuable enough to steal in the apocalypse? Food? Blood?

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004


are the people pulling the heist zombies?

Calibanibal
Aug 24, 2015

by Nyc_Tattoo


I need to monitor this thread for a while more before I can deem it worthy of my participation.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


banned from Starbucks posted:

zombie heist movie? what are they stealing the zombies themselves? whats valuable enough to steal in the apocalypse? Food? Blood?

The cure

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004



Hmm ok. Not sure why you'd need to steal something like that unless its from something like the umbrella corporation. im optimistic though

Terrorist Fistbump
Jan 29, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo


An ambitious project doomed to failure...tragic...

Terrorist Fistbump
Jan 29, 2009

by Nyc_Tattoo


Should have locked the thread after the first 2 replies bc I don't really know what else needs to be said

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Crook County

Terrorist Fistbump posted:

Should have locked the thread after the first 2 replies bc I don't really know what else needs to be said

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


banned from Starbucks posted:

Hmm ok. Not sure why you'd need to steal something like that unless its from something like the umbrella corporation. im optimistic though

Maybe it's a Robin Hood deal and the corporation wants to sell it for a fuckton and they want to give it away.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010





josh04 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zA2tRl7d-s


https://twitter.com/fevered_earth/s...6070601729?s=19

safely quarantining my terrible zack snyder opinions here in the snyderdome

Thank you for posting this. Favorited it and will be sure to share it around a lot, although I can't take anyone who say MOS is objectivist seriously. It's like saying Man of Steel stars the Wayans Brothers, it's obviously false and can be proven as such. Objectivism might be a lovely philosophy but it has clear tenets laid out and Man of Steel follows absolutely none of them. Anybody even vaguely familiar with Libertarianism will know that what Clark does to that rear end in a top hat's truck is one of the most grave sins you can commit according to Ayn Rand or regular Libertarians. That is that man's private property and Clark might as well have just broken the guy's arm as destroyed his truck.

It really pisses me off when people can't just insult a movie, they have to outright lie and abuse terms to do it. You don't like it? Just say so, don't appropriate ideas you don't even understand to try and attack it.

But yeah, Existentialism is a great lens with which to view Man of Steel and its ethics. Wonderful video. Thanks again.

Captain Jesus
Feb 26, 2009

What's wrong with you? You don't even have your beer goggles on!!


Man of Steel is probably my favorite comic book movie but I always disliked the neck snap because it wasn’t established that kryptonians can be hurt on earth.

The final fight is really long and depressing and you’re wondering how it’s gonna end because there’s no apparent way out. And then supes just snaps zod’s neck.

Kryptonians probably weren’t the best choice of enemies for a first movie in the series.

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.

Captain Jesus posted:

Man of Steel is probably my favorite comic book movie but I always disliked the neck snap because it wasn’t established that kryptonians can be hurt on earth.

The final fight is really long and depressing and you’re wondering how it’s gonna end because there’s no apparent way out. And then supes just snaps zod’s neck.

Kryptonians probably weren’t the best choice of enemies for a first movie in the series.

I think it was Ferrinus in the MoS thread who had a few very good posts about why the last moments of the Zod fight don't quite work, the main body of the fight is two impervious dudes throwing each other around and Superman gaining the upper hand seems to happen by sheer luck. I didn't mind the neck snap because snapping necks is pretty ubiquitous in action movies as a way of killing someone without stabbing, strangling or shooting them, all options that are out the window with Zod. I guess they could have established the neck as a weakness earlier with Zod killing an underling who displeases him, but I honestly don't mind that much.

The best option of course would have been Superman beating Zod to death while crying.

Slutitution
Jun 26, 2018

by Nyc_Tattoo


I thought Hollywood hated Ayn Rand? How the gently caress does Snyder still get work from that alone?

The MSJ
May 17, 2010



banned from Starbucks posted:

are the people pulling the heist zombies?

They're zombies with only capitalism in their brains.

KVeezy3
Aug 18, 2005



I said come in! posted:

But would things be different if Gotham knew that Batman was Bruce Wayne?

The Dark Knight established that law enforcement actively pretends to investigate Batman’s identity. Gotham demanded Batman’s head only when the Joker started threatening and killing police officers and members of the middle to upper elite class.

BvS satirizes the very concept of a secret identity: everybody knows exactly who everybody is.

McCloud
Oct 27, 2005



Captain Jesus posted:

Man of Steel is probably my favorite comic book movie but I always disliked the neck snap because it wasn’t established that kryptonians can be hurt on earth.

The final fight is really long and depressing and you’re wondering how it’s gonna end because there’s no apparent way out. And then supes just snaps zod’s neck.

Kryptonians probably weren’t the best choice of enemies for a first movie in the series.

While on the topic, why did they decide to go with Supes snapping Zods neck instead of him just being sucked up in the phantom zone? The three biggest reasons I can think of is to further undermine the power fantasy wish fullfilment of superhero movies by actually presenting Superman with a difficult choice with painful consequences,to show Superman fall short of the messianic ambitions and highlight that he's still a man, and not a god, and to have a kickass fight sequence with Zod.

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Clark Kent snaps Zod’s neck at the end of MoS because he’s not Superman yet. He hasn’t gained the experience and perspective to adopt the character’s classic portrayal of morality. He doesn’t really become “Superman” until BvS, both in name and by virtue of his actions.

Man Of Steel is about a regular dude who will one day become Superman, and the whole movie is basically one big learning experience that he repays on in the following movie with taking responsibility and enacting self-sacrifice.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Fart City posted:

Clark Kent snaps Zod’s neck at the end of MoS because he’s not Superman yet. He hasn’t gained the experience and perspective to adopt the character’s classic portrayal of morality. He doesn’t really become “Superman” until BvS, both in name and by virtue of his actions.

Man Of Steel is about a regular dude who will one day become Superman, and the whole movie is basically one big learning experience that he repays on in the following movie with taking responsibility and enacting self-sacrifice.

Clark's morality isn't the issue. It wasn't a lack of experience or perspective that lead him to kill Zod, and as miserable and traumatic as it was, he wasn't wrong to do so. There was nothing unvirtuous about his actions, and there was no point where his being more self-sacrificing would have helped any.

His failure to prevent a greater loss of life than he had, his failure to redeem the Kryptonians instead of destroy them, all come down to things outside of his power. Regardless of how strong he is, that wasn't enough to save absolutely everyone. Regardless of how good he is, that wasn't enough to navigate a bloodless solution.

It's not that Clark's a regular dude who has to become Superman. It's that for all his incredible power and good will, Superman is still human.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Schwarzwald posted:

Clark's morality isn't the issue. It wasn't a lack of experience or perspective that lead him to kill Zod, and as miserable and traumatic as it was, he wasn't wrong to do so. There was nothing unvirtuous about his actions, and there was no point where his being more self-sacrificing would have helped any.

His failure to prevent a greater loss of life than he had, his failure to redeem the Kryptonians instead of destroy them, all come down to things outside of his power. Regardless of how strong he is, that wasn't enough to save absolutely everyone. Regardless of how good he is, that wasn't enough to navigate a bloodless solution.

It's not that Clark's a regular dude who has to become Superman. It's that for all his incredible power and good will, Superman is still human.

I guess you could say it's not easy to be him

Tart Kitty
Dec 17, 2016

Oh, well, that's all water under the bridge, as I always say. Water under the bridge!



Schwarzwald posted:

Clark's morality isn't the issue. It wasn't a lack of experience or perspective that lead him to kill Zod, and as miserable and traumatic as it was, he wasn't wrong to do so. There was nothing unvirtuous about his actions, and there was no point where his being more self-sacrificing would have helped any.

His failure to prevent a greater loss of life than he had, his failure to redeem the Kryptonians instead of destroy them, all come down to things outside of his power. Regardless of how strong he is, that wasn't enough to save absolutely everyone. Regardless of how good he is, that wasn't enough to navigate a bloodless solution.

It's not that Clark's a regular dude who has to become Superman. It's that for all his incredible power and good will, Superman is still human.

I get what you’re saying, but I think if you look at Snyder’s original death/resurrection plotting (even the condensed version we ended up with), the basic long term arc is Clark Kent evolving to become the “classic” pop culture interpretation of Superman. He spends most of MoS in over his head, inadvertently causing more collateral damage (him floating over the tanker truck and letting it slam into a building isn’t a mistake by Snyder, but by Clark) by BvS we see he’s already evolved some from his experiences; someone asked why he didn’t just snap Batman’s neck earlier. Well his whole characterization in that movie is about taking responsibility for his abilities (he freely goes to a congressional hearing at his own will). The whole dynamic between Superman and Batman is that they’re passing each other in opposite directions: Superman is becoming gentler and more “heroic,” while Batman is regressing and becoming more violent.

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeyhKWjQaKk

quote:

Superman never made any money
For saving the world from Solomon Grundy
And sometimes I despair the world will never see another man
Like him

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


Fart City posted:

I get what you’re saying, but I think if you look at Snyder’s original death/resurrection plotting (even the condensed version we ended up with), the basic long term arc is Clark Kent evolving to become the “classic” pop culture interpretation of Superman. He spends most of MoS in over his head, inadvertently causing more collateral damage (him floating over the tanker truck and letting it slam into a building isn’t a mistake by Snyder, but by Clark) by BvS we see he’s already evolved some from his experiences; someone asked why he didn’t just snap Batman’s neck earlier. Well his whole characterization in that movie is about taking responsibility for his abilities (he freely goes to a congressional hearing at his own will). The whole dynamic between Superman and Batman is that they’re passing each other in opposite directions: Superman is becoming gentler and more “heroic,” while Batman is regressing and becoming more violent.

I get that, but at the same time I feel it's a little overstated. Clark's going to a congressional hearing at his own will in Beevs isn't a change to be more responsible than he was in MoS, since in that movie he also freely surrenders himself to the government. If anything, it's a return to responsibility after bungling in Africa, not an improvement over who he was in MoS. Likewise, the fact that he doesn't simply kill Bruce isn't him changing for the better, it's just a continuation of his earlier behavior where he held off killing Zod until it was clear that doing so would kill someone innocent. Clark doesn't have to kill Bruce because he's never put in that position.

This isn't to say that Clark doesn't change or become a better (Super) man, but this is more of a change in his perspective of himself in relation to the world than a change in his willingness to do good or sacrifice himself.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007



Grendels Dad posted:

I think it was Ferrinus in the MoS thread who had a few very good posts about why the last moments of the Zod fight don't quite work, the main body of the fight is two impervious dudes throwing each other around and Superman gaining the upper hand seems to happen by sheer luck. I didn't mind the neck snap because snapping necks is pretty ubiquitous in action movies as a way of killing someone without stabbing, strangling or shooting them, all options that are out the window with Zod. I guess they could have established the neck as a weakness earlier with Zod killing an underling who displeases him, but I honestly don't mind that much.

Yeah, you see how he gets the upper hand as they're crashing to Earth and, yes, it's a lucky break that gets him on top. Once Zod starts flying, Superman loses his one advantage and is getting his rear end handed to him. But that's part of the reason he has to kill Zod there. Given it's a suicide-by-cop situation, Zod wasn't quite trying to kill Superman, but there could be millions more dead before Superman got another chance like that, assuming he ever did.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007



Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

The police have a cool cartoon that basically says "Hell yes I approve of Batman!" in their lobby, which Clark saw. Might discourage him a bit.

The idea of dropping Batman off with the police when a station has this taped to its front desk is hilarious:

ynohtna
Feb 16, 2007

How does that sound?



Illegal Hen


I'm so resentful over the Cyborg we got versus what could and should have been.

Uncle Wemus
Mar 4, 2004



Zack is loathed by the pop geek culture consensus so he must be good.

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



Sir Kodiak posted:

The idea of dropping Batman off with the police when a station has this taped to its front desk is hilarious:



That "nice purse" label is incredible.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.


Electronico6 posted:

That "nice purse" label is incredible.

There aren't enough labels to be a real political cartoon

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011



It's too well drawn and not enough racist, but that kind of cartoon(and label) would be something that the usual poli-toon hacks Ramirez or Mccoy would make without a trace of irony.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007



https://i.imgur.com/cZ5pQB9.gifv
hot dog truck

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours



I seen it.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



my xcom campaign nooo

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

adrift on a wind,
immaculate and unseen


Sir Kodiak posted:

Yeah, you see how he gets the upper hand as they're crashing to Earth and, yes, it's a lucky break that gets him on top. Once Zod starts flying, Superman loses his one advantage and is getting his rear end handed to him. But that's part of the reason he has to kill Zod there. Given it's a suicide-by-cop situation, Zod wasn't quite trying to kill Superman, but there could be millions more dead before Superman got another chance like that, assuming he ever did.

You actually don’t see, I think - Zod tackles Clark down at the earth, there’s a cut, next we see they’re hurtling down and somehow it’s Zod on the bottom being tackled by Clark. You definitely have the right read - Superman caught a lucky break and had to capitalize before he lost the edge - but we don’t get to see how it happened. If it was up to me I’d tie it to Clark’s cape somehow, although it’s hard to do that without wandering into slapstick territory.

I also agree with Captain Jesus that it would’ve been nice to know what the fight ending could look like. A literal neck snap would be too clear a spoiler, but generally knowing that one incapacitated Kryptonian could off another would lend a little more drama to e.g. Clark stumbling in a daze after a heavy blow or explosion. Onnnn the other hand, literally not knowing how or even if the fight could end has its own appeal.

Violator
May 15, 2003



Martman posted:

Supes in BvS doesn't see himself as like, a fully empowered law enforcement dude. Aside from cases of people threatening his family/the entire world/etc., he's been trying to stick to doing stuff like "saving cats from trees" because he's afraid of his power and unsure of his role in the world. A big point of the movie is Supes learning that he can't keep doing that.

That's not true? We see a montage of him saving astronauts from a rocket explosion, saving the crew of a tanker truck, saving flood victims, etc. He's doing all sorts of big stuff that cause consequences he didn't foresee and he has to wrestle with whether he should be helping or if he's making these events around the globe worse?

Grendels Dad
Mar 5, 2011

Popular culture has passed you by.


"Get inside. It's not safe!"

God drat, MoS is so good!



quote:

That's not true? We see a montage of him saving astronauts from a rocket explosion, saving the crew of a tanker truck, saving flood victims, etc. He's doing all sorts of big stuff that cause consequences he didn't foresee and he has to wrestle with whether he should be helping or if he's making these events around the globe worse?

All these catastrophes are still very different from Superman attempting to tackle crime. Even Superman just saving people from a flood causes a shitload of "Can he do that? Should we allow him to do that?" arguments. Imagine if Superman started to catch bank robbers all over the US. Where would the legal system even begin to work out that mess?

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


The Labours Of Superman are really funny when you consider them like the opening Batman scenes - fantasies that others project onto him. They seem a lot more like things people have heard about and are relating as personal experiences.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


Violator posted:

That's not true? We see a montage of him saving astronauts from a rocket explosion, saving the crew of a tanker truck, saving flood victims, etc. He's doing all sorts of big stuff that cause consequences he didn't foresee and he has to wrestle with whether he should be helping or if he's making these events around the globe worse?
These are all basically "apolitical" actions. I didn't mean that he's doing insignificant things, but that he's doing stuff that mostly doesn't offend political powers and stuff like that. He's only doing "safe" heroism. Like in Man of Steel, he's willing to break the U.S. government's spy drone thing, but only to protect his ability to live a private life. Similarly in BvS he'll only meddle in government conflict type stuff to save Lois; otherwise he's trying not to step on anyone's toes.

Martman fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Feb 1, 2019

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Nah, they put it front and center, the rocket is a Soyuz, stranded shipping vessels and oil rig fires and disaster areas aren't politically safe, all that stuff comments on political inaction and negligence. It's dirty work.

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Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


That's true that they are inherently political. I guess I'm talking about Superman avoiding fighting people, i.e. using his powers as a weapon. He does it to protect Lois and it blows up in his face way more than any of the other concerns have. I don't think the distinction he's making is successful, I'm just saying that I think that's presented as his intent, so I can see why he would not want to actually attack Batman.

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