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Nodosaur posted:If you’re going to talk about what these movies “require” in a “real” world, then we need to start asking why Clark doesn’t have hollow bones or melanin in his skin, or explore the psychological impacts of Diana’s agelessness, or poo poo like that. Making Batman a killer is no more required than anything else because Batman himself is an impossibility, and it’s funny how “criticism of how the character is portrayed” most often relates to ultra violence somehow and few of the other truly challenging or regressive things about comic books. I mean there's an easy answer: those are loving pointless questions, whereas the legitimacy of violence, who gets to wield that threat, how and why, is a fundamental question to how we live as a society. It's an idea worth debating, and that's why there are stories about it. That's why people are so invested in the question of whether Batman kills or not. Batman V. Superman: Dawn of Justice argues that he does, and it also argues that in doing so over a period of years with increasing levels of violence, Batman has become so callous to this, that he goes on a single-minded campaign to kill Superman at the expense of everything else, which ends up making things worse. Zack Snyder might disagree with you on the idea that lethal violence could be avoided, but, on a more fundamental level, he agrees with the idea that Batman should not kill. The controversy exists because, much like in Man of Steel, it's about the "whys" and "hows" of their characters' ethics. It doesn't take "Heroes don't kill" for granted, instead making a case for the cost this might have.
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Mar 26, 2019 09:48
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Nodosaur posted:Look at Watchmen. Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons made the combat ugly and unglamorous. Snyder made it sexy and cool to watch. Which method is ultimately going to be more effective in portraying this as something you aren’t supposed to admire? Snyder’s approach to all this, if it’s what you guys argue it is, he’s doing it in a kind of visual language that a lot of readers aren’t picking up on. You haven't read Watchmen in a hot minute if you think the violence in it doesn't call attention to itself in a deliberately stylized way for effect. (Note also the caption, taken from dialogue in a scene happening at the same time and juxtaposed with the violence, again, for effect.)  And, y'know, as a point of fact, the sexual aspect of it all is also completely intended in Watchmen. This is page #15 of issue 3, it ends with Laurie lighting a cigarette. 
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Mar 26, 2019 10:07
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Nodosaur posted:The comic doesn't have long, drawn out and lingering shots of Laurie's legs while they fight. The fact they get a sexual thrill is still communicated, just not in an extended "Oh yeah, let's get it on" scene. It's the same as Kojima's Quiet character, sexualization presented unironically, where as Gibbons just drew two people turned on. The image of the fight actively shows one thug's expression of terror, and the literal blood fountain expelling from another's mouth. The focus in the film is on Laurie and Daniel, and the thugs matter as much as the guys Captain America beats up in the elevator. You haven't seen Watchmen in a hot minute either (it's okay, neither did I). Same exact scene, I'm counting Laurie's legs being visible in all of two shots during the fight. If you wanna talk "lingering", the longest cuts I'm seeing are Dan breaking a thug's arm, Laurie stabbing a thug in the neck, and a third thug shooting that thug in the back. You're talking about a scene that doesn't exist in the way you describe it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uFkyVVyqa0 And while we were on the topic of violence and how our heroes see it, the choice of putting Manhattan's quote about the number of atoms in a dead human body versus a living one over the footage of Laurie getting that thug killed might be saying something about something, but I don't know, I'm the kind of dipshit who defends Zack Snyder online.
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Mar 26, 2019 11:24
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yeah who gives a poo poo they don't get it they never will let's move on: it took me until the recent discussion about Batman's use of violence to realize that him quoting Dick Cheney in BvS isn't just handy shorthand for "this dude is off the deep end on some crusade poo poo", but it's also putting Dick Cheney in the continuum of thought that leads to accepting the completely bonkers idea that there's such a thing as "surgical strikes", that Batman punching a guy just right will not only not kill him, but also that it'll unquestionably make things better
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Mar 26, 2019 22:20
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isn't the whole thing of Prometheus that these guys are so comically obsessed with finding answers about the origins of humanity that they keep putting themselves in danger until the Alien from Alien shows up?
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Mar 27, 2019 16:37
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Blood Boils posted:Isn't Lifield a notoriously good sport regarding how people feel about his style? Like he'll draw requests for bad art Liefeld is an overly enthusiastic guy, and his art reflects that: it's big and bold and energetic, more interested in motion and action than any kind of grounded reality. The trademark pose of his characters is "arms out, mouth open, and throwing themselves at the reader". Dude LOVES comics. He's not very good at it (but better that people will give him credit for), but the claim that he hates his fellow man is so patently absurd it almost makes you forget that the very same thread also calls Joss Whedon a "humanist".
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Apr 2, 2019 18:46
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I had to go on wikipedia to check if there was an animal out there that had more than one womb and turns out? marsupials have two wombs, and that's the most wombs an animal can have so, if you had a whole bunch of wombs attached together in a plant-like way, I would call that unnatural and weird, in a way that suggests that it's not meant to be a womb, but something more sinister and yes I hate that this is the kind of posting we have to do in the Snyder thread, but hey, the more you know
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Apr 3, 2019 18:26
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Hey honestly please don't, this thread is bad enough without the need to bring a fresh supply of other, also bad, posters. Plus anyway it's a take that's predicated on Geoff Johns (whose work the Shazam movie takes the most from) and Zack Snyder being two completely different and absolutely incompatible with one another kinds of storytellers, and that just doesn't track. Both have been called needlessly grimdark because of the high levels of traumatic violence happening in their work, both are extremely overt about the themes of their stories, and both are really big into grand spectacle. The only real difference is that Geoff Johns is incredibly skilled at finding the populist appeal of the character he writes, and Zack Snyder really isn't interested in doing populist work.
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Apr 5, 2019 11:16
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Snowman_McK posted:There's something about Zack Snyder that just blinds people. I mean, i get disliking someone's films, but people go out of their way to misread films, statements, scenes...even individual lines of dialogue. It's become a performative thing to prove that you hate Snyder more than anyone else. It's just bizarre. I just had a reminder on my facebook feed of people saying Sucker Punch's action scenes were so badly shot they gave people motion sickness. Whatever you feel about Sucker Punch...that's just not true. It's performative culture war bullshit. Some people read 300 as stupid and racist, so Zack Snyder became the guy making stupid racist movies. And the more movies he makes, the more evidence you can find that he's stupid and racist.
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May 23, 2019 07:48
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There's a tension there. It's the movie that gives Rorschach an extra bit of catharsis when he confronts Grice and drops the "Men get arrested, dogs get put down" one-liner, but it does that while Rorschach is driving a meat cleaver in his skull over and over again in a fit of rage.
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Nov 4, 2019 18:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:And ultimately, I think Snyder's version is a great version of the character, because despite all his doubt, frustration, and misery, he keeps doing it, right up until the point he literally chooses to die to help the world. And I think that's a true Super Man. It's always been odd to me that the Snyder/Goyer/Terrio take on Superman is filled with angst, doubt, and meditations on power and responsibility, while the Marvel movies are devised to always validate their heroes as inherently good, which in some ways is an inversion of what the comics purported to be at some point in time.
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Nov 9, 2019 22:05
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I feel like Rogue One still works as the story of Jyn Erso learning to believe into something bigger than herself and the grim necessity of violent resistance, plus the cast was cool as hell. Anyway, one "knowledgeable insider" told Variety a bunch of stuff about WB's current strategy, including this quote:The launch of HBO Max had inspired some hopes that Warner Bros. might allow Zack Snyder to release a director’s cut of “Justice League,” leading to a social media campaign dubbed #ReleaseTheSnyderCut. Snyder directed an earlier version of the ill-fated super-team movie and had planned to do some reshoots. However, after his daughter died, he was not able to complete production and was replaced by Joss Whedon, who injected a more light-hearted tone into the final film. Logistically, however, there’s little appetite at the studio for spending the millions of dollars it would require to finish visual effects and editing work on Snyder’s version, particularly as “Justice League” was a commercial disaster. There are currently no plans to release a Snyder version either in theaters or on HBO Max. https://variety.com/2019/film/news/dc-comics-superman-michael-b-jordan-green-lantern-aquaman-birds-of-prey-1203415757/
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Nov 26, 2019 17:28
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All-Star was designed as a Final Superman Story, and as a finale for the character in the form of a celebration of all that was, which works really well in comics, but would make for a terrible movie.
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Dec 2, 2019 19:28
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but it can't be! this source has a name!
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Dec 4, 2019 17:28
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there's a whole-rear end documentary that's all about how much of a dipshit he is
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Dec 5, 2019 18:26
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Bongo Bill posted:They should just get Zack Snyder to direct a Star Wars movie already. Hail Satan. Chris Terrio is writing Rise of Skywalker and part of me believes it's gonna wreck people's brains.
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Dec 8, 2019 11:13
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BigglesSWE posted:Oh we don't like that guy now? I mean, he did get laughed out of CineD for claiming that El Diablo's death in Suicide Squad was barely noticeable when it's a literal actual blaze of glory.
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Dec 14, 2019 04:49
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teagone posted:I want to relive this. What was his username on here? Lmao. FoldableHuman, also he made a video essay on Man of Steel years ago that I do not dare rewatch, but if you're in the mood, there you are https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teTOkGXa_W8
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Dec 14, 2019 20:14
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GoldenGun posted:I don’t even know how to start to engage with this stuff. the correct answer, which is the least satisfying answer, is "don't"; you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place, plus you already won! the snyder cut is real, and it's going to be good, because his last two Superman movies were good nothing else should matter and then, someday, for seemingly no reason, one of the Film Discourse thought leaders, seeing how the wind is blowing, will say Snyder is good, and everyone will follow
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May 23, 2020 13:58
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wyoming posted:Like the worst part of BoP was the bizarre fan poo poo, like "Oh this movie is great because it ignores Suicide Squad" which, lol. Literally it has Harley saying the Suicide Squad outfit has "sentimental value". I feel like, if the aim was to completely disown Suicide Squad, that wouldn't be in there. Mostly I love BoP because it does a bunch of cool intertextual poo poo with the rest of the Batman media, like when it recalls Jokers' lair from The Killing Joke to have its big team-up setpiece.
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May 31, 2020 04:52
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WeedlordGoku69 posted:and now, you're seeing it with Snyder. Disney's favored tactic now is to repeatedly, loudly insist that whatever's going against them is going to cause societal harm, and that you should instead consume approved Disney product to maintain woke progressivism. I think it goes beyond movies, and beyond Disney. It's a wider tendency in art and culture to try and call out or expunge anything that could be seen by anyone as harmful, irrespective of its context, who made it and why they made it, and other murkier questions. Most of it is useless moral panic that one should feel pretty safe laughing at, but more censorious elements use that to go after the most vulnerable artists doing weird and alienating work about their weird and alienating feelings. In this, Disney is just one beneficiary among many, because they have an endless trove of cash to throw at focus-tested and sanitized as all hell projects they can market into oblivion if they feel it's a hit, while the censorious sorts gain social capital from taking scalps, or looking like they are taking scalps, in the particular example of Zack Snyder, a wealthy white man who's always played nice within the studio system. Even the actual predators gain from this, as they can claim that their grooming, and any work they do which carries legitimate harm in the name of their self-gratification, are in the vanguard pushing the boundaries of taste. The only way I see out of this is to put specificity above all else. To talk about things as they are, and how you feel about them, in the plainest terms you have, without posturing or pretension. Let's talk about these goddamn movies and see what happens.
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Jun 3, 2020 14:05
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sponges posted:Maybe people want Superman to be a mouth breathing simpleton that's literally Mark Millar's Huck, which was written as a reaction to MoS, incidentally
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Jun 15, 2020 03:21
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Ghost Leviathan posted:They don't want Superman. They want Dr Manhattan. Really, what they want is movies where no one faces any problem or does anything. Their platonic ideal for a superhero movie is the party scene from Avengers: Age of Ultron, until the part where anything happens. Because things happening means people taking action, and action means consequences, and maybe even change. Superman can do anything, no matter how absurd, so long as nothing changes.
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Jun 18, 2020 06:11
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sponges posted:So is it considered a movie or a series now? if les cahiers du cinéma called twin peaks the return a film, I'm calling this a film as well
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Aug 24, 2020 02:19
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:We need closure: why does he make out with the Joker's girlfriend? because she's attracted to people having power over her; by the end of the film, she's fallen in love with the american deep state, so Joker has to woo her again by dressing up as a cop
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Oct 22, 2020 17:31
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Detective No. 27 posted:The names of stuff in Death Stranding are incredibly on the nose. There are also lots of puns hidden in them. Like how Amelie's name sounds like "Ameri" in Japanese and how she is (pretty major Death Stranding spoiler) a Ka, so Ameri-ka. also it makes her AME (which is french for Soul) a LIE, and I know this one is also intended because it's one they literally spell out during the reveal
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Feb 1, 2021 16:54
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