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AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Seems to me he intentionally described the work in an extremely narrow way to avoid the political part, which would be weird if he liked the political part

Also MOS/BVS are outright rejections of that philosophy

Also even if you were right, that quote isn’t “admiration”

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AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Cease to Hope posted:

You are describing Fountainhead as though it had some "apolitical" part that is commentary on the creative process.

No I’m not. I’m describing what he says he took away from it, which is very narrow

Also MOS/BVS are outright rejections of that philosophy

Also even if you were right, that quote isn’t “admiration”

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Most of these examples of male gaze seem like male glances at best

If the camera isn’t luridly lingering on them for like, even a second then it doesn’t strike me as a great example. Nor if there’s a dude in a speedo with a huge bulge center of frame.

If Snyder was as vehemently male gaze-y has he was accused of being at the start of this, shouldn’t this be really easy?

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

I was annoyed by the dissonance of this billionaire tearing up the streets in a $17,000 Jeep Renegade

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Man of Steel is the best superhero movie. At least in the last 15 years or so

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Brother Entropy posted:

i dunno, spider-verse gets real drat close

Oh true, sure. I was thinking live action

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

gently caress off, this is a great thread full of good vibes and thoughtful posts

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

I used to watch them a lot (just for laughs, not critique), and they mysteriously stopped liking Marvel around the time they started pushing Black Panther and Captain Marvel.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Snowman_McK posted:

Those were both exceptionally on the nose in commercialised wokeness with apoligia for imperalism and the military industrial complex right under the surface, so that makes sense.


It sure does. Too bad they used it (and other movies) to just rant about the concept of representation on its own

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Wonder Woman literally shows a bunch of stock market lines going down when things look bad, and then going back up when things are fixed lol

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

BigglesSWE posted:

Hate to break it to you, but the movie is not that old.

I personally don’t think 300 is a work of satire, since that’s giving it credit it does not deserve. In my mind, it’s a shallow visual spectacle that obsesses over certain details from the graphic novel without stopping and thinking why it does. So, much like Snyder’s work in general.

This is just silly.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

I don’t think it’s that over the top to observe that the guys who constantly bash a writer/director are talking about how much they miss his writing, without mentioning him. It’s happening a lot in the discourse around WW84.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

RBX posted:

People want big budget movies, not animated movies. Nothing animated has come close to the shows from back in the day and the movies they're been making have all been bad in different ways, things are not what they used to be animated wise.

DC fans want their version of the Marvel movies that somewhat resemble the comics just once instead of everytime a movie comes out it's has to needlessly change something for no reason. Or the tone is terrible.

A batman movie that isn't another campy film or a deconstruction or scared to embrace what Batman is. The upcoming Batman is really what people have been waiting for.

So uh what is Batman if he’s not campy or deconstructed? A wealthy fascist, portrayed sympathetically? I’ll pass.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

RBX posted:

Number one they're more faithful COMPARED TO WHAT MOVIES DC WAS PUTTING OUT. That's the conversation were having. Stop twisting words. No they didn't just make the comics into a film because that's not possible, duh. But OVERWHELMINGLY people agree whatever DC was doing is not what they wanted.

Green Lantern was a poo poo movie, IDC how faithful it was. Aquaman is weird because yes the movie is good but he's not a generally popular character. I hate the new Spider Man too.

Using loving rotten tomatoes as "evidence" of anything is laughable. If people like Man of Steel and BVS so much then we'd still be getting more of those wouldnt we? But we're not. It's dead. They failed no matter how much you try to fight it.

New Batman actually seems good because for once it's a loving brutal guy that seems to actually have issues. The Bruce in that trailer does not look well adjusted at all. And no Batfleck was just DKR batman which is the worst. I'm so tired of that Batman.

Rise is nothing like the comics, actually the only Batman closest to the comics is the first two Nolan movies. I do have a soft spot for the Forever movie.

This post is incomprehensible. In your first paragraph you (falsely) claim that Marvel is more faithful, despite many examples to the contrary. But then in the second paragraph you say you don’t care how faithful Green Lantern was. Then you say Batfleck was a faithful adaptation of DKR batman, but you hate that comic so it’s not good for it to be faithful. But you also want a Batman who is brutal and has issues?

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Who even cares how accurate an adaptation of something is? It’s a new interpretation, show me something new. If it’s bad, then say why it is bad. Maybe you can use the original work as a lens for what/how/why something is lovely, but simply damning it for being “different” is beyond pointless.

E: not directed at McCloud

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

The Joker: a cinematic cul-de-sac

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

RBX posted:

Green lantern was just bad, faithful or not. The point I was making that the MCU has overall good movies first.


Man of Steel is better than any Marvel Studios movie. It also happens to be at least as entertaining and action-packed as any of them. Something tells me any reasons you give me why it isn’t are going to be bound up in the “not my Superman” poo poo, it’s circular reasoning that gives nothing to a discussion. Not even sure why you’re in this thread tbh

RBX posted:



Not always but sometimes yes. I'm tired of everything always having to be overly sad. Yes Spawn should be not fun but Flash should. And stuff like Forever is ok from time to time.

....

Rest is weird because not everybody wants to be fake intellectual about everything they consume. You also make people that enjoy that stuff sound less than.

Were you having fun when Spider-Man almost blew up a school bus full of teenagers using tech that was identical to that used by the Nazis in Winter Soldier? How about when he was recruited as a child soldier by the selfish millionaire libertarian? How about when that same libertarian ranted about how he wanted to build a wall to keep out the dangerous foreigners and then was treated like Jesus at the end of the movie? Oh wait that Jesus guy also made the Nazi school shooter drones lol

AdmiralViscen fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jan 5, 2021

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Ghosthotel posted:

RBX used the wishing stone from WW84 to become this post.

This killed me

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

McCloud posted:

He specifically said he would not do that because he felt it disrespectful to Patty and her vision

Typical randian objectivist

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

I’m pretty sure this is based on some director backing out of a possible MCU movie because they were told that the action scenes in the film were already in production and that they wouldn’t have input in them. Can’t remember who, now.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Good action has thematic and character relevance

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

EmptyVessel posted:

So basically, "We all went mad and shouldn't be held responsible, it was just the times"? Fairish point but, a very US-centric view, and also an excuse that would have come in handy in immediately post-WW2 Germany.

Note: I am not suggesting that Snyder is even remotely a Nazi or Nazi-adjacent (opinions about the US Overton Window aside), but it's an obvious parallel.

Wonder what he thinks about that image now; "lmao" - bad look, "jeez I really was a bit of a twat*" - good look.

* would have put the c-word but refrained out of respect for your cultural sensitivites.

Everyone said he sucks but deems it likely that he has grown, given that he went on to make multiple movies where people with that viewpoint are the bad guys

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Detective No. 27 posted:

Time progession in LoTR movies is strange. I think Sam and Frodo are supposed to spend about six months out on their own trying to get to Mt. Doom. But then in the battle of Minas Tirith, I think, they point out to a spot that looks like a day's ride away where Sam and Frodo were at about that time (the details are fuzzy, I'm bad at remembering these things.)

The books take their sweet rear end time and I think Sam and Frodo are out there for a few years.

The books take six months from departing the Shire to destroying the Ring

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Escobarbarian posted:

Another shining example of his secret genius

What do you feel you offer this thread?

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Escobarbarian posted:

When you’re part of a group who will go to ridiculous lengths defending the Martha thing or the actual jars of piss I’m not sure saying this sarcastically really works as well as you think

Liking a movie doesn’t make anyone “part of a group”

But if it did, the alternative is being “part of a group” that papered over Joss Whedon’s actual sex crimes

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

RBA Starblade posted:

I know you're joking; "invasion" isn't the right word really, but some of you are definitely provoking on purpose



Rando Snyder haters routinely Kramer into this thread to deliver some ice cold take about how lovely or objectivist these movies are, what’s your point

You can’t even post a trailer or bit of news about a Snyder production in other movie threads without getting 50 angry posts about what a piece of poo poo he is. This thread’s regulars are pretty upbeat and positive, and have interesting things to say about the movies

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Who is pretending that 0 Snyder fans have ever “provoked a response” lol

You’re provoking right now



Edit - for content: I think the question is typically “are Snyder fans more toxic/provocative than the average fandom, or specifically Snyder haters” and the answer is “no” IMO

AdmiralViscen fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Feb 22, 2021

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

RBA Starblade posted:

No side is innocent in internet war, that's all

“Not uniquely toxic” /= “never toxic”


As far as I can tell, the only thing unique about the Snyder fandom is the massive donation drives for suicide prevention. It also happens to be measurable. The criticism of the Variety piece in this thread was that the donation drive is relegated to the end of the article, after repeated unsupported references to the fanbase’ toxicity.

AdmiralViscen fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Feb 22, 2021

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

These Snyder fans are always provoking arguments!

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Guy A. Person posted:

Tbf to Eugene (although after that discord post...why would I even want to be) I did use the term "final cut" pretty flippantly. I haven't seen Zack's contract so I have no clue if he actually got final cut privileges, although given the history of the last two movies and the way this has progressed I kind of assumed that was part of the negotiations.

Still, it's weird to argue from some position of ideological purity. Like clearly Zack Snyder is using an existing IP that's owned by a major corporation, of course there were decisions made probably long before he was even hired. The idea that he doesn't have at least the most freedom and artistic control as anyone who has ever made one of these movies with this cut is downright silly to me. And nobody is claiming that he needs to have this in order to properly call it "his" cut (at least, nobody in here, I'm sure you can find people on Twitter who believe any range of things)

Didn’t Snyder say he did all the work on this cut for $0 in order to guarantee no interference on it? I think you hit pretty close to home with your phrasing

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

CelticPredator posted:

????

Who was the manager?

Being a Karen is about asserting your dominance over someone you think is lower than you through yelling and stomping your feet unless this changed.

It’s about pulling the levers of institutional power to protect your ego/lifestyle by taking advantage of the privileged status that was granted to you by sheer luck

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Yea, I’m with that reading

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Don’t bother if it’s not ultimate edition IMO

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Pirate Jet posted:

Wait, you found the IMAX version? Where? I checked multiple times today and only ever found the regular Ultimate Edition.

WB has really hosed this launch. We have no info on Blu-Rays for ZSJL or IMAX BvS, and that 30-minute making of doc isn’t up either.

Best Buy has a listing for a new BVS release 3/23, no box art but I’m assuming it’s that

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Loved the movie, but did anyone have an issue with Martha being revealed as MM? I thought that really sucked the air out of the preceding scene and it served no real purpose anyway. And that purpose would have to be prettttttty good to be worth it.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Comrade Fakename posted:

I watched the Snydercut over the weekend. I would say that I thought it was pretty good. Very competent. To be honest, I was kind of shocked at how straightforward it was. Snyder's work that I've seen has mainly been exemplified by taking big weird swings at ideas and themes that often don't work (like pretty much all of BvS) but at least it's going for something somewhat unique. ZSJL isn't really going for anything particularly ambitious. Other than the length and Snyder's visual style there pretty much isn't anything in this movie that you wouldn't see in an MCU film. It's hilarious that the studio panicked and roped in Whedon to try and make them an Avengers movie, when Snyder had made them an inoffensive Avengers movie already. Oh, all apart from the new epilogue, which was just rubbish. It's kind of remarkable that so much drama and heated emotions have been generated over such an unremarkably decent movie. Though I'm probably being a little harsh, just making a 4 hour movie that doesn't feel like it drags too much is probably an accomplishment in itself.

It is much better than the OG JL though of course. Though frankly as much as Joss Whedon can go gently caress himself, I don't know how much to blame him for that. I suspect that Whedon is a man who had exactly one Avengers film in him, and then corporations kept driving dump trucks full of money to his house to get him to make it again, to increasingly diminishing results. They did it once with Ultron, and then WB did it with Justice League, and Whedon not giving the slightest poo poo any more just followed the studio's demands to the letter: make it two hours long, make it brighter, put in more (poo poo) jokes. I doubt Whedon is particularly upset about Twitter dunking on him for Justice League, he obviously didn't care at all about it and he (deservedly) has bigger problems going on right now. But I don't know how much to read racism into the fact that he heavily cut the non-white characters as it wasn't his fault that Cyborg and Cyborg's dad's lab friend had storylines that were almost totally irrelevant to the main plot of the movie and didn't tie into any other movies currently in production and as such were obviously the main targets for cutting when he had to halve the running time.

Ok so why did he delete all the black and Asian amazons then

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Whoa

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

roffels posted:

A curious experiment would be seeing how much you can cut until the film stops being coherent. I don't think there's a possibility of making a good 2-hour film out of this material, but think there could be a great 3-hour cut.

For what it’s worth, Snyder presented WB with 3:00, 2:40, and 2:20 cuts. WB insisted on a 2:00 cut and that’s when he walked.

AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

KVeezy3 posted:

I'm not exactly a deft purveyor of film video essays, but probably the only one hasn't made me gag was josh04's excellent treatise on Suicide Squad, which also economically functions as a critique on the 'film video essay' culture as a whole.

I'm holding out hope for The Ayer Cut on the off chance we get a part 2 to that essay.

Link plz

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AdmiralViscen
Nov 2, 2011

Robot Style posted:

Snyder did one of those "[BLANK] Answers the Web's Most Searched Questions" things, and I thought it was kind of interesting that his answer to "What is Zack Snyder's directing style" has nothing to do with the final product of his movies, and instead is about how he treats the people working on them.

I also liked that his answer to “how do you watch ZSJL” was a few perspectives on where to place your intermission instead of just “HBO Max”

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