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Slutitution posted:Example: Snyder had Superman break Zod's neck, which wasn't in the original version of the script. Bizarre. How is that a dull choice, though? What happened in the original version of the script? And what do you mean by "original version"? Are you talking, like, first draft development stuff or what they were actually shooting with? Like, consider this: Slutitution posted:Scripts commonly change during production (mostly by the filmmakers adapting it). Bizarre. You have not been arguing that Snyder's films are poorly adapted. You've been arguing that his scripts are dull. When people brought up the obvious, that Snyder does not actually have script credits on most of his films, including these ones, you changed your position so that it now becomes about what you suspect are problems in how the script was adapted. Which seems like a rather disingenuous route to go down, because it doesn't seem like you actually have a strong opinion about either how the films were written or how they were adapted, you just think both are bad. Considering that, maybe just take it as a fair cop when people point out that Snyder did not, in fact, write either MoS or BvS. And following from that, maybe try to develop your specific criticisms of whatever it is you'd like to focus on (script, performance, direction) rather than just conflating all of these things and concluding no further investigation is needed simply because you don't like the ultimate product.
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Mar 6, 2019 01:03
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Slutitution posted:Directors and producers commonly change little aspects of scripts which can dramatically change the tone and themes of a film. Again, killing Zod is emblematic of this; the whole seen lasted a few seconds, and...welp. "Welp" what, though? What was welp/dull about it? Remember, "Superman" is not a character in MoS. The character is Clark Kent. Saying "killing is diametrically opposed to Superman's character" doesn't mean anything for lots of reasons. One is that killing can occur in numerous contexts, and not all of them are morally equivalent, so even if the character was Superman, it would seem less like the killing is diametrically opposed to his character, and more like it's diametrically opposed to the generic contrivances of the stories in which he's typically featured. You take those things away, and you're left with this dude Clark Kent, who can do anything, really, who isn't burdened by some equivalency between his essential character and what has become a formula. Slutitution posted:In Snyder's case, I would suggest that he needs to work on connecting with the audience emotionally by getting better performances out of actors, along with better storytelling. He has the visuals down. I think it's well established that lots of people connect emotionally with Snyder's films, sometimes even too much.
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Mar 6, 2019 01:24
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I can't not see him snapping Rich Vos in this, and it makes it all the funnier K. Waste fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 6, 2019 |
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Mar 6, 2019 01:59
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Cease to Hope posted:this thread delivers, i gotta say A better analogy would be "Randian Objectivism is to Cultural Marxism," but the apprehension of ideological paranoia is more or less accurate. Better yet, we could imagine an alternate timeline where, instead of superhero movies, nerds were interpreting alien invasion movies as Scientologist propaganda.
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Mar 6, 2019 05:43
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I got a dime on that being a James Gunn original
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Mar 6, 2019 21:08
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Equeen posted:Still weird to see otherwise smart and progressive critics try to paint the man as the Worst Person in Hollywood over superhero movies, tho. There are no smart or progressive critics in movie fandom. Fandom as an ideology is inherently reactionary.
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Mar 25, 2019 15:00
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Martman posted:How often has Batman been actually concerned that he would like, kill an innocent person or something? What's missing here is that this all has nothing to do with Batman, per se. Batman isn't actually concerned about killing "innocent" people because, for the most part, the narratives in which he appears are simply contrived in such a way in which that doesn't happen. It's the exact same for Superman, for Spider-Man, for the X-Men. There are obviously many cases where there is implied or explicit "collateral," and it's relative to a given subject, but as with Superman, the preoccupation with Batman as his "code" is a misattribution to some fundamental aspect of his character what should more accurately be understood as preconditions of certain genre. Batman isn't afraid of using lethal force - he demonstrably uses "lethal force" all the loving time. It's just that nobody dies. It's like in George of the Jungle, they just get really bad boo-boos. But because fandom describes a culture that is literally invested in uncritical enthusiasm for a commodity, you see a lot of blatant illiteracy when it comes to even interrogating the basic generic constructions of superhero comic books, before we even get into the question of what a particular characters particular motivations are at any given time. Fans read The Dark Knight Returns, then notice that Snyder has appropriated elements of the story into his own work, and conclude that he doesn't understand them because Batman kills in Beavis and doesn't kill anyone in TDKR. They completely miss the fact that Frank Miller is constantly showing Batman, like, shooting people, snapping their limbs, literally mowing down hordes of them in a loving tank - and is making fun of the fact that nobody dies. "Rubber bullets. Honest."
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Mar 26, 2019 06:31
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Nodosaur posted:Yes, there's the text of those scenes, where nobody dies, and the subtext, where the emphasis is on how patently absurd that is. Well, no. In that very clip, Snyder is speaking about the "no kill rule" as a patently absurd contrivance. More importantly, he's framing taking these generic contrivances for granted as absurd. That's the whole point of "You're living in a dreamworld." Leaving aside that he's kind of just speaking off the cuff to a highly receptive audience that he feels comfortable not having to belabor that point, it does not require in itself a citation of Frank Miller's work or even a particularly nuanced explanation. His point is far more straightforward and visceral: there are grown adults who implicitly or explicitly align with a position of superheroes (Batman in particular) being moral and ethical role models simply because they don't kill, and this is absurd. We as readers/viewers, on the other hand, are in a far better position to straightforwardly interrogate the construction of specific works. So, with regards to Frank Miller, the "subtext" is not that it's absurd Batman acts this way and doesn't kill anyone. That's the explicit text, the thing Bruce jokes about while mowing down fools. The "subtext," if there is one, is that it doesn't matter if he kills these people or not, that they exist solely in some liminal state between a pointless, parasitic existence and a death that they deserve. With Beavis, it's all well and good to say that one could make a specific, contextual criticism of Batman killing in the film, but that would require actually interpreting context. But the thrust of criticism of Snyder, Terrio, and Goyer's creative choices are overwhelmingly preoccupied with the fact that Batman kills at all. Snyder is merely confident that showing Batman killing has a clear rhetorical purpose, in showing that he can't act this way and not kill, that you have to deal with this reality in order to align yourself with or reject his cause in any particular scenario. If his remarks are lacking in any respect, it's that he doesn't actually make the really incisive point: that negatively impugning the filmmakers' decision to show Batman explicitly kill people is not really fantasist naivete, but merely being disingenuous. Nobody actually has a clearly defined idea of how far Batman should go in brutalizing people just short of killing. What we have is a vague, possessive investment in aligning ourselves with the character as a conduit for immersing ourselves comfortably within a narrative. Even if Batman never killed a soul, the film itself is not conducive to conventional verisimilitude. It's not even particularly interested in "Batman" or "Superman" as distinct characters in and of themselves - they just become masks of "real people" who are living out their own power fantasies while also having the fantasies of others constantly projected upon them. It's this weird, operatically-stylized, apocalyptic science-fiction movie fused with a psychological thriller, made by a filmmaker who like, say, Quentin Tarantino, is presenting the film proper as an overtly artificial world that becomes compelling in itself, rather than following a tradition of making that artifice invisible.
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Mar 26, 2019 07:38
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It is kind of satisfying to see it tacitly demonstrated that the number one source of breaching snyder chat is just a hater.
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Apr 3, 2019 15:36
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I like how much frailer Clark's fetus looks than the factory farm Kryptonian. He was made "organically" and it shows. Among Kryptonians, he really wasn't gonna be much of a contender. They got that Gattaca science on lock.
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Apr 3, 2019 22:14
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The Snyderdome: Army of the Deadlift it's perfect
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Apr 6, 2019 06:27
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ruddiger posted:I'm not at all surprised that Zack Snyder got death threats because he made the zombies in Dawn '04 able to run. Go full Fulci and have them levitate and teleport
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Apr 6, 2019 16:48
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It would seriously be hilarious to me if this thread became a workout/gym genchat.
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Apr 6, 2019 23:51
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KVeezy3 posted:Physical fitness/nutrition should be available to all and it's terrible that it's been appropriated as a right-wing milieu. Although CrossFit has the unfortunate combination of being idiotic, expensive, and cultish, it does show that there is potential for building a community through fitness. Yeah, I get that a lot of this stuff is prohibitively expensive for a lot of people so it has the tendency to reproduce an insular culture of not just shaming the "unfit" (scarequotes) but just straight up pipelining people from baseline reactionism to the far right, but part of the problem is also that the face that's put to a lot of this poo poo is just of these meatheads getting all swole and cut and then talking poo poo about, like, just regular people who also just go to the gym and workout because it makes them... feel better? Like, not because they're out to be bigger, more domineering people, but just because working out is good for your physical and mental health over all? Like, I'm lucky enough to have a big brother who co-owns his own gym, and in exchange for helping him make coaching videos he lets me take sessions there. I'm now at the point where I'm going in four times a week and it's honestly done way more for making me feel less anxious all the loving time than any therapy or sertraline. It just gives me this little thing that I can do consistently that gives me a very small sense of accomplishment, and then I feel so much more riled up to do other poo poo that I want to do. And aside from some of the people who actually run the gym and instruct the members, nobody there that I've encountered are these RAAAAR SUPERBEAST types. I realize that context varies based upon what the community of members is like, the size and expense of the gym, etc. But frankly there's a lot of people out there who could really improve their quality of life (or at least their basic self-esteem) by hitting some box squats or doing some metabolic even just twice a week, and are just completely understandably put off by the coagulated douchebagdom of these neo-social darwinist types. 'Cause that's how I felt, too. And now that I'm actually at a place where I'm feeling really good, not about my body, but, like, literally just where I'm at physically and mentally, poo poo like that just really bums me out. Flesnolk posted:Why are all fitness personalities and such full on fash, anyway? Never seen one that was even liberal. Because we live in capitalist hellworld where everything is transmuted through just the most objectified mythology possible and dominates every waking moment of our thinking about what is "healthy" and "beautiful" and "productive" - so instead of talking about physical fitness, we end up just talking about physicality. "Fitness" can and should be a standard of health attainable for everyone, to each according to his need, from each according to his ability. Physicality, on the other hand, reinforces a hierarchy of values with regards to the body, which is conflated with the intrinsic value of the person, how they look and what they can physically do.
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Apr 7, 2019 02:57
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Slutitution posted:So does Zack Snyder pump iron to be fit, or because of Ayn Rand? You would have to ask him.
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Apr 7, 2019 20:59
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Darko posted:DKR is all Nolans; Goyer didn't really do anything in that movie except for whatever spitballing they did. At that point he would have been full on in development of Man of Steel, wouldn’t he?
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Apr 16, 2019 00:48
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Jimbot posted:To that horrible article's credit, American History X does gently caress it all up with the ending. Nah, what fucks it all up is that it's a gang movie where the filmmakers basically forgot to write/film most of the gang parts. Like, there's basically a single line of dialog just five minutes before the end credits where we're told that, off screen, Cameron and Seth were assaulted by members of the Crips. Leave aside that what we are shown is Derek kicking the poo poo out of Cameron, so it's easy to conflate the two incidences, even though they're separate. This lapse in clarity is made all the more confusing because it's literally Sweeney and the cops' entire plan that Derek is gonna be released so he can be an inside man informing on Cameron's gang. This is something that's only alluded to at the beginning and end of the film, but ultimately has absolutely no baring on what happens. People tend to get hung up on AHX for rather odd reasons that seem to boil down to, "There's no way that someone could go from straight racist fasc to milquetoast liberal that fast" or "Oh, so this black kid just randomly shoots someone for blowing smoke in his face." The actual problem with the movie is that it's not actually clear what's going on a lot of the time. Like, for instance, the use of black-and-white isn't just there to demarcate events that occur in the past, they represent Danny's unique perspective. So suddenly you have this one part where Derek is thanking a single, scrawny, petty thief for apparently saving him from not being shanked by the purple gangs, because this is literally what Derek is telling Danny what happened, and Danny just isn't asking very obvious questions: Wait, how precisely does that work? What did that dude have to do to stop those guys from making you their bitch or just straight up killing you? And what about the Nazis? What happened to them? Is it just arms across the prison for this one white boy?
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May 14, 2019 03:45
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I mean, the social message of the movie is that "gangs prey on vulnerable kids," which is facile, but not exactly negative.
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May 14, 2019 04:13
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How have your guys gym days been? Idk, I feel like I’ve been slacking, hopefully getting back on my sertraline regimen will help manage some of the anxiety I’m feeling and get me in the mindset to push more. My brothers gym is having a team-oriented workout competition at the beginning of the month and I’m already signed up, so I need to get my head in the game. I also need to get one of those Snydercut charity shirts to see if I can find any true heads doing it
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May 25, 2019 22:52
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KVeezy3 posted:I've recently given up standard deadlifts for sumo deadlifts because I'm built like a T-Rex (Long legs, short arms) and it feels good so far. I wish my gym had a trap bar though. Nice, thanks for the links. Sumo deadlifts or great but I need to get a pair of shin covers. That bar is murder if you roll it into your legs. Halloween Jack posted:Really bad. Spring I have something disrupting my schedule at least once a week, whether it's the graduation ceremony or taking my mother to see Dr. Zhivago. Dr. Zhivago not a bad trade off for a gym day.
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May 26, 2019 15:40
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:CineD Snyderdome: I don't care about Main stream this is for you Hell yeah I didn’t know if I was gonna be able to make it to gym day today, I went to my first punk show in years the other night, was out till 2:00, got like 4 hours of sleep before pulling a 10 - 6 getting oriented behind concessions at the local AMC being hungover and sore as gently caress all over all on a Father’s Day constant rush, going home and passing out immediately and waking up to my alarm at 6:30 still sore as poo poo. But I thought what daddy Snyder would say. He’d say, “Hit that rack.” And I did cause you can’t let daddy down.
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Jun 17, 2019 19:54
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Dreqqus posted:I'm glad you got to the gym but this is gross. No it's not.
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Jun 18, 2019 01:20
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I really like the brutalistic aesthetics for the new gods. Like, that's so fittingly mythological. Darkseid doesn't just look like a big hunky supervillain... he kind of just looks like some barbarian thug? But then his kid is a loving wolf-lizard-devil thing.
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Jul 6, 2019 06:20
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Savage Wonder Woman is something we are never ever going to get back Every single cool aspect of the roster got so screwed
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Jul 20, 2019 15:49
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Bogus Adventure posted:Nobody stays on top forever. There’s a great documentary called “Dawg Fight” about unlicensed fights in Dade county Florida, and a big part of it is this illusion that some of the fighters are under (and that the promoter Dada 5000 cultivates) is the idea that they’ll get “scouted” just like Kimbo Slice, but how actual MMA were clearly trying to strategically disassociate themselves from it. Unfortunately the doc doesn’t really get into how bad “street fighters” tend to actually do in MMA.
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Aug 7, 2019 04:52
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That fight was amazing because everyone thought Kimbo would mop the floor with Roy, and it ended in the funniest way possible. Kimbo was supposed to be the big attraction that season, but most of his time was spent trying to rehab bad knees IIRC. RIP, Kimbo.
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RBA Starblade posted:Would Zack Snyder have given us anything as magnificent as 302's Athenian Superweapon: A Horse On A Boat? I think not He co-wrote it, so yes. Also, 302's end credits song is a remix of Black Sabbath's "War Pigs." They knew exactly what they were doing.
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Oct 11, 2019 00:54
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well why not posted:It owns when a movie actively disrespects the audience Well, right. Any notion that there’s nothing at least nominally subversive about Snyder’s oeuvre is undermined just by how severely 302 retcons the ethnic-national perspective of the first film. In 300, the myth is that it’s leonidas’s sacrifice that unites the Greeks. In the sequel, the Athenians take all the credit, whereas the Spartans are depicted as cynical isolationists. In the first film Leonidas calls the Athenians “boy-lovers.” In the second, the Athenians use the same libel of sexual deviance against the Spartans. The Athenians see themselves as just as Uber-masculine as the Spartans.
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Oct 11, 2019 02:37
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CelticPredator posted:It’s my favorite version of the song lol. I love songs with trailer music drums added too it. Gleeful trashiness encompasses a lot of aspects of Snyder's filmmaking, and the soundtrack is just one way he gets to give no f's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s21iRlT-uxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc9IQc1ap-E SuperMechagodzilla posted:It’s extremely telling that nobody complains about the explicit imperialism of the blue-coloured Athenian democrats. Btw, another opportunity to plug Oliver Stone's Alexander as a spiritual, retroactive sequel to 300.
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Oct 11, 2019 05:10
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garycoleisgod posted:302 also has other moments that deviate from history, primarily about Artemisia. She did command ships, but the rape-by-greeks backstory is made-up, as is the story of how she came to rule and the manner of her death. That made up backstory also makes it seem like you shouldn't see the greeks as the 100% good guys in it. Well, the thing is, it's Queen Gorgo of Sparta who is narrating the film. If you remember, she is the one who was raped and "abandoned" by her "fellow Greeks." It's a form of obfuscation.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:18
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Goffer posted:If the point of the satire is to ridicule or mock a ideology, and if that work attracts more people to that ideology then it does turn people away from it, I reckon it is a failed satire. I mean, what’s the point of satirising something if you just draw more people towards it? Notice how you're framing this as a zero-sum problem of whether you're "attracting people" or "turning people away" from something. You have not even considered the third option, which is neither attraction or repulsion, but merely passivity and stasis. And this is the thing that keeps getting revealed by these online debates about whether comic book movies are sufficiently "successful" as satires: Not just the lack of a working theory of what satire even is, but a profound disconnection from any actual, authentic critique of ideology on the part of the reader themselves. For instance, notice how nobody says that RoboCop is a "failed satire" because most of the people who see it aren't active members and advocates for political groups and parties that oppose police brutality. The problem, if there is one, is always simply that, like, people will watch the movie and think police brutality is cool?
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Oct 12, 2019 14:08
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well why not posted:So what’s the consensus on Sucker Punch then? Best film musical since Moulin Rouge!
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Oct 13, 2019 17:13
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GoldStandardConure posted:Was it this thread where K Waste (I think?) was posting a materialist analysis of gyms & dieting? That's the content that keeps me coming back to cinne d. Yes, one of the few posts I’m proud of. Just got out of metabolic this morning, too. Feelin good enough to smash the state.
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Oct 31, 2019 12:51
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Robot Style posted:The VFX would have some representation for each shot, but it would be far from finished. If they released the Snyder Cut as-is, there would be a lot of Ray Fisher in mocap PJ's, but the greenscreen he was standing in front of would have been replaced. Sounds better already
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Nov 15, 2019 18:10
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teagone posted:A good friend would show support, basically. Henry Cavill is also a coward until he breaks his silence. He seemed to be the only one authentically down for Joss’s take on his character, maybe he’s just wants to move on from being the most hated Superman
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Nov 18, 2019 03:28
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John Wick of Dogs posted:One thing he was wrong on. Sometimes you need to let the needs of drama and cinema overcome something that doesn't "make sense". I don't think there was a large orders of people watching Aquaman thinking "wait how do they talk down there?" I do wish we had a scene of Atlanteans speaking “English” and then switching to the perspective of a character who doesn’t understand the language and so we hear them making dolphin noises
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Nov 27, 2019 15:58
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Bogus Adventure posted:I've got mixed feelings about that. I was so stoked to find out that Kevin Conroy was finally playing Bruce Wayne/Batman in person. I don't want him to be the bad guy, though. I can’t look at Conroy in real life and not see, “typecast as bad guy”
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Dec 10, 2019 15:51
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For Clooney in Batman & Robin, like, god drat, yo
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Dec 13, 2019 21:26
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Julius CSAR posted:I didn't realize his middle name was "Effron" The slow unraveling of just what a colossal misread the "snyder is a jock" meme was has been absolutely worth all the JL bullshit. Like, holy crap, what a glorious dweeb - this is the guy inspiring massive insecurity in movie and comic book wonks because he... lifts weights?
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Dec 18, 2019 07:41
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The thing is that Spider-Man started out fun but kinda janky, then with 2 it became legitimately good, and then three is finally a masterpiece on the level of Darkman.
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Dec 22, 2019 10:48
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It's also the funniest of the three films. So good...
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Dec 24, 2019 05:27
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