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Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



It is time for my penance.

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Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



I'm just here to have a good time.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Lumpen posted:

I didn't do anything N0.

Why make that statement?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Lumpen posted:

Xavier, do not ever flavorclaim your identity please.
I believe it is most likely in the interest of Town to refuse to claim any flavor names in this game.
Unless mafia's changed drastically in the last year, whenever someone gets close enough to the lynch they'll throw out their flavor and roles in a bid to avoid the lynch. Throwing out a blanket proclamation about it maybe not helping the town won't stop human nature. You're enough of a realist to know that.

Lumpen posted:

Good question, it is quite notable for me to warn Xavier to absolutely keep his identity hidden and for Town to not claim flavor names, even after the mod called flavor a "rabbithole" that would "not solve the game". Nothing unintentional, I make moves.
It seems peculiar that you are publicly warning someone based entirely on their flavor name as if you're sure "Xavier" is not scum or a scum fakeclaim.

In case you die early this game, are you confirming "Xavier" is town here or just being generic just-in-case? I mean, it only goes against everything the mod said, but let's not let that stop us.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Pinterest Mom posted:

Looking forward to not meeting up w Lumpen and merk again when I’m back in chi next month

would get beer with merk again A+++++

Will say that, as a 6'4" person, looking up at someone during conversation was unusual. merk tall.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



George Kansas posted:

i'm glad lumpen is so diligently setting the parameters of this game for us

##vote george kansas

Sass feels feigned.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



b-minus1 posted:

i signed up to dunk some scum
self-vote incoming?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



The Ninth Layer posted:

Whoa hey Pander's in this game! ##vote Pander

I am!

The Ninth Layer posted:

No and the identity of who was is a secret I will carry to my grave.

I feel like I'm missing something.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Lumpen posted:

There's not even one person on the roster who I think the game would be better without. It's probably the finest roster I've ever seen!

Needs Keane posting as a dwarf.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Hal Incandenza posted:

Yeah and that's kind of why his weird unprompted claim to have done nothing stood out, it's not in step with his normal game which is fairly predictable. Worth keeping an eye on for sure.
In FFIV mafia, the last game I played, he kept dropping cheeky ambiguous scumslips for no reason to go along with an actual scumslip. So, uh, "normal game" is an odd description for him.

"Worth keeping an eye on" is some lukewarm broth, too. This doesn't feel like much of a read, Hal.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Little Mac posted:

I assumed he was doing things to bait out people who had obviously not read the OP.
It kinda reads here like you're defending lumpen by saying he's setting a trap for people who don't read the OP. Are people who don't read the OP more likely to be scum in your estimation?

Or am I misinterpreting the amazing phrase "bait out people"? Or that it was a defense?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



fiery_valkyrie posted:

If you think both Ard and myself have our votes down just to generate content then why aren’t you asking him to change his vote too?

"Please look at someone else and not me."

I really like Ernie's point. You admit you thought of ards post as early game pot stirring after making a pretty heavy case against him for this early D1, moreso than just "generating content".

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Ugh it's really hard to read multiple posts and go back through histories on the phone. Feels so disjointed. Hates it.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Little Mac posted:

I'm wondering about Ernie's thought process
My question was what did you mean about lumpen baiting out players who didn't read the OP?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Captain Foo posted:

you're calling his post fake but also explaining why it could be okay? meh ##vote f_v

Where does FV do that in the post you quoted? I don't see that.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Lumpen posted:

I have been forbidden by the mod from truthfully claiming my role, alignment, or win condition. This has made me grouchy, as you might imagine. I am permitted to lie but I judge that in order to maximize my chances of winning, I will not tell a lie. I don't gambit. I play to my win condition in every game. If I were allowed my optimal move would be a 1st post of game fullclaim.

Recognize that I am scumhunting, refer to the information I have posted, and judge for yourself. Let's lynch scums.
This sounds like bullshit. You claimed your N0 action, but you're mod-forbidden from claiming a role? Isn't claiming a night action effectively communicating your role, in part at least?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Just caught up.

Gonna claim my role because it's effectively an indirect vig and it's somewhat pertinent to today's lynch.

I must visit someone and recruit them into a masonry with me. If one of us dies, we both die. (I just asked taste what happens if I don't, cause there aren't consequences listed in my role PM).

I visited someone N0 and it failed, and I was told they were too spiritually self-reflective to join me. I thought it might have been Xavier, but after Ernie's claim I'm thinking it's more likely to be a member of that zealot's group. I can name this person if it helps at some point, but for now I don't think it does.

So I then visited Lumpen N0, and it failed. Different reason entirely (Just a flat out refusal, nothing to do with zealotry). I kinda questioned him about his N0 statement cause it meant he was either lying or couldn't join my masonry. I'm just trying to weigh his "I can't reveal anything about myself" claim which seems super sketchy, with the idea of a helpful 3P, a concept I'm sympathetic toward. Him being 3P makes sense, cause I don't think my role would be be balanced at all if scum were immune from being brought into my masonry. I'm not saying that's impossible, it just doesn't feel likely.

On N0 I was just going for fun with it, but after those results I figured I could use it a bit more strategically. My plan is to openly recruit the most worthless/lurky white noise poster in the thread, so I either doom a scum or help reduce the number of bad townies if I die. GK or got some chores tonight are high on my list.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



I wrote that post over about 15 minutes (work is making it harder to mafia than I'd hoped) so it looks out of date already.

I'm fine with not lynching Lumpen, provided he eases up on PRs and hunts scum this game.

I'm good with GK, something bugged me in his early stuff and his post with a vote on FV looks forced. If we don't lynch him I'll probably make him my mason partner.

George Kansas posted:

Ardulac's thoughts track to me, and I think it's pretty reasonable logic. Too much wifom for me to want to vote mac, but I don't think it's scummy.

I think f_v characterizing Ardulac's post as so obviously bad that not even Ardulac could believe it is really aggressive scum posturing. ##vote fiery_valkyrie

I'll try to read some folks now.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Ernie. posted:

Since I was pushing F_V when she was casing you and then she disappeared I re-read her earlier today and she came off a lot like someone who was trying to draw out bad cases than anything else. I know she was mostly casing you so you might have a different perspective, but she came off as townie to me on a re-read.


Why would you claim this publicly? Like I get the Lumpen thing, but especially if you're town I wouldn't tell the thread who you're picking. If you happen to pick another town they know where to take a 2-for-1 shot.
If I don't pick scum, they'll know to kill me anyway. If I pick someone useless or scummy, at least the scum know they're eating a poo poo sandwich in wasting a kill on us.

Plus, this way if there are, say, 3 deaths in a night, this way you'll know which are because of me vs some other killing action.

I can see pros and cons each way, but this way feels more fun and WIFOMy.

Lumpen posted:

I got no notification of being visited by Pander but I find his claim plausible.

As I said in my first post of the game, I did not perform any action N0, and also I have no information that would explain Pander's claimed inability to Mason me. I also can't think of a good reason based on my PM why I shouldn't be recruitable to a Masonry though.
I was told that neither you nor the other person were notified of my visit, so that makes sense.

If you're a survivor, it would be really unfair in my opinion to let me just recruit you and get us both killed if I goof up no matter how well you were playing.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



I could vote b-minus based on these back to back posts. Latter read seems to only be provided out of necessity after the first jokey post, not because it's genuine.

b-minus1 posted:

Toal is a liability and we cannot let them anywhere near endgame. Even with a confirmed town investigative result. Sorry toal but your scum game is too good, I can’t trust you ever again haha.

b-minus1 posted:

Correct. FWIW I have a town read of toal at the moment, Which is why I’m not voting them today.

Related, noticed this reading bminus' history:

Bifauxnen posted:

this is actually a very active D1 for binus, I distinctly remember him making a content post yesterday that made me go "wow, I wonder if it is a good or bad sign that binus is actually doing something besides saying lol, or how much he hates D1"
I challenge anyone to read bminus' posting history up til that point and come to the same conclusion bif did. It's not a long read.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Lumpen posted:

Pander can you attempt and fail to recruit me every night?
No, it's a one-shot thing, I just need to hit someone who I *can* recruit into a masonry, which I don't think was supposed to be this hard. I have until N1 to do it, and I coulda done it starting N0.

I've held it back since then to treat it like a vig rather than risky-secret-mason-buddy-scum-hunting-fun-time like it would have been if I got you or the other person.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Lumpen posted:

Pander please withhold, you could get Xavier killed and there's no upside that outweighs that to your action as far as I can see.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I'm playing this role wrong and now am just trying to find the silver lining. It's been fun so far, I like feeling like I'm solving stuff already on D1. Usually I hate D1.

Not 100% yet but leaning toward masoning with Ixt. He's not completely absent, but he's also not saying much pertinent. I'd rather lynch GK than mason with him.

got some chores tonight posted:

and it also looks like his scum play in asinina;s grad school mafia d1

where the heck is a town bminus game for comparison
Uh, if someone's meta isn't obvious enough that you can cite it without hunting down a bunch of past games, it's probably not worth using.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Mills posted:

Boy! I would reconsider your current course!

Okay.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



got some chores tonight posted:

i bet if i look up some pander games id find that youre a big idiot
and how.

gotta go get dinner for wifey, I don't think I'll be back after this, and it doesn't look like anyone's looking at GK right now, so
##vote b-minus

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



##vote George kansas
Making magic happen in the last ten seconds I have to myself

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



The Ninth Layer posted:

This is a very dressed up way of saying that lurking is scummy. I don't at all buy the idea that it's somehow worse to lurk if you had three votes on you when you stopped posting.

Didn't you just say youd vote gk because he's been absent?

On phone so quoting sucks but it was like five posts ago

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



So either escapee or lynchbomb maybe? Escapee seems less likely given governor in play.

I'll be happy to hammer, or at least try to given the vote fuckery going on.

I've come to the conclusion I'm too risky to keep around if the scum can just make it instant plurality, votesteal, and make people hated. Assuming those weren't ALL Lumpen.

If my lover is scum it's a good thing I die, and if the lover isn't then it's at least better for us to die soon than anywhere near lylo.

I'd ask people to hold off on any early hammering Lumpen, so I can get some analysis of D1. I'm out in the field this week walking down transformers and poles from 7am to 5pm, so if like at least tonight and tomorrow night if possible. So maybe don't pile on him please?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Jonathan Fisk posted:

Mills, Xavier, Town Inquisitor, was killed N1
Is that a known role, or something invented for this game? I don't know it.

kaschei posted:

My vote was stolen
I can't for the life of me think of a reason the scum would display so many vote-loving abilities so early. Either they're forced to or some of these are not the scum, cause there's no reason for the scum to reveal these powers before LYLO.

Pinterest Mom posted:

obnoxious that the universe of possible zealots has been reduced by so much, that exposes the town prs a lot
???

CCKeane posted:

Hello friends.
hi Keane!

Ernie. posted:

what is wrong with you?

what levels is it funny on? do you actually think I'm scum or are you just trying to beat me to the voting punch so you can use the wifom defense in a post or two?

Bifauxnen posted:

are you for real

also yeah, I think you're scummy, maybe you weren't gonna be my top pick first thing this morning but you skipped the queue

Ernie. posted:

##vote bifauxnen i'm just taking a shortcut here instead of engaging with you any further because it's obvious you're not arguing in good faith

why wasn't i on your scummy list before?
This exchange reads completely alien to me. Like, from a little joke post up to straight up to navy seal copypasta level hostility in like 2 posts.

Pinterest Mom posted:

In bifs defence I didn't notice Xavier was dead plus also i don't think it matters

But going after a zealot right out of the gate after geek's flip is weird
????????

Pinterest Mom posted:

it says he was telling the truth about being a zealot, which, sure, could still be scum but I'm not sure it's the most productive avenue today
I mean given lumpen's play that's pretty obvious, but it also seems like a deflection.

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Ernie, now that the zealots have lost a town player, is there a majority opinion on who might be the scum/s in your group?

Did GK talk much? Did he have any opinions of the game?
The last couple questions are fine, but what are you really expecting from the first question? How would that inform your play?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



fiery_valkyrie posted:

I’m expecting that town players in that group should be sharing at least a degree of what is going on in their private chat with the thread. There is almost definitely a scum in that group so everything they say would be known to scum. The people lacking information are the non-Zealot town members.

I want to know who is talking more in there than in the thread? Who is pushing votes? What scum hunting is happening within that group?

Seems pretty self explanatory to me.
I'm just asking you to think about the mechanics of that.

They post in masonchat "hey who among us is scummy", and then all give answers, then ernie translates them for the thread?

Just seems like it'd be awkward.

Ixtlilton posted:

I wanna kill Lumpen, even as pro-scum wincon he almost always plays for town if he can. Should kill. What you think? Also how's life been?
Why is this a reply to F_V's post?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



got some chores tonight posted:

i hope town's play this entire game is predicated off flavour arguments

(wow i used town in a third person, im being really noncongruent probably because im a scum)

you should probably read your role PM to be sure and get back to us.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Where did the pressure on Ard go?

This game seems pretty heavy on vote adjustment. Given that, I'm not sold that the plurality-causer was necessarily scum and governing was necessarily town yesterday. Ard's play from the first half the day was hilariously bad. If I didn't suck at mafia I would have keyed in on him after his nonsensical vote on LM and his insistence that a refusal to engage was scummy.

Bifauxnen posted:

now see, you recognised it as a jokepost, but Ernie was like, "what's that, fellow town? How could you dare appear happy that a townie has died?? I question your townie attitude because of this, alleged fellow townie!!"

that's where the alien part comes in I think
I meant your first post of the day was the jokepost and ernie drilled it up to 20. I just didn't quote that first post.

You also escalated, but in the context your reaction makes more sense than his.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



fiery_valkyrie posted:

Do you really think an unconfirmed masonry hasn’t already had that conversation before? And that town players aren’t also scum hunting in that chat?

Why do you imagine that they would take a straw poll? If the masonry group thinks strongly that one of their members is scum, then they should talk about that in game.

I'm in an unconfirmed masonry, I somewhat had that chat, it's just the act of distributing the results to chat is kinda awkward. It's like a mini-lynch, where a few people with privileged information make a call. In this case, it's entirely filtered through ernie unless they out themselves. So Ernie has to break down what they privately discussed publicly. And if they're not outed, and he says "we thing one of us might be scum", we...what? Demand they out the person so we can lynch them?

What is the actual end result that happens here? You're appealing to a group as though they'll have an answer for you, some direction you can turn to.

You're really really focused on the mason group.

Maybe pretend there is no zealot group for a moment and read folks?

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Lumpen posted:

Ardulac is obviously Town dude shut up.

I took that kinda for granted D1 cause I didn't really focus on him until he did his governing thing, but when I was re-reading some folks last night I started alphabetically and it took me forever to get past him because his play was really really really scummy the first half of D1.

He looks like he got to use his role to finally get away from that.


(lol I just now noticed it was you posting, I thought it was keane's av for some reason so I was responding in earnest instead of "lol eat poo poo")

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



fiery_valkyrie posted:

You're imagining the conversation going in a way that I hadn't and making assumptions based on that. I didn't ask for a play-by-play recap. The members of the masonry have information that is not freely available. I want to know if any of that information is important for town to know.

I'm also not really focused on the mason group. I've only talked about them as much as I have because you keep asking me questions.
You're sorta right. I was looking at your post history in your thread, and saw this post on 2/14 where you answered a question about the masons...

right next to this one

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Ernie, now that the zealots have lost a town player, is there a majority opinion on who might be the scum/s in your group?

Did GK talk much? Did he have any opinions of the game?
and in skimming missed it was a post today not 2/14. I just saw "ernie" and thought "Man F_V is just tunneling on that group" and it seemed excessive. missed the 4 day gap between posts.

I still think you're really fixated on the mason group. If you're town, let it go.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



fiery_valkyrie posted:

Happy to stop talking about the masonry now.

What do you think of my case on PMom?

Did you see my ???'s in that other post of mine?

I've had a hunch or two on Pmom for a while that I've been trying to tease out.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Ernie. posted:

i've done some biostatistics and have a master's in biochem - good memory

math is still a whole other level of nerd poo poo though haha

honestly until we can link someone in the masonry to a scummy opinion/action, there won't be actual progress made on that front, imo
I have some independent knowledge that can confirm 1 or more of the zealots as members of that group, if it matters. If the zealots are going to reveal identities and I'm alive, let me know and I can tell the thread what I know.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Captain Foo posted:

##vote pander

Cool. Wait for tomorrow big guy.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



kaschei posted:

someone vig toalpaz svp

What's your case on him? I read your history and I can't discern anything. Like, wifom about having your vote stolen because he's worried about you voting him is absurd.

I've had a generally positive feel about him this game.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



kaschei posted:

Toalpaz, Pinterest mom, Little Mac, Lumpen were voting for both Ardulac and GK at hammer

Did you count this yourself or use the last votefinder? That was probably wrong sure to the governor. I don't think for players can double vote this game.

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Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



merk posted:

I’d also vote Pmom.

Not sure what Lumpen is doing. Would vote him.

However, first, Pander should reveal what he knows.

I know who I picked for my lover and I (think) I know two zealots besides Ernie.

Didn't think of any benefit of revealing either. Is there one I'm not seeing?

LM: good pickup there. I didn't like his refusal to claim either.

Bif: I did a brief search of your history and couldn't find a single reason you've FoSed Pmom consistently the last half the game. Why's he on there? A Lumpen list isn't a substitute for content, by the way.

Speaking of, what were your intentions vis a vis lynching lumpen today?

Time to go out in 30 degree weather for 9 hrs. I'll try to check in around lunch.

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