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Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011




How the gently caress did we make it to this point without being able to make bread???

Well hey, at least we can light poo poo on fire now.

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Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




I think it's less we can set poo poo on fire and more we figured out how to manufacture molotov cocktails.

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.


Not only can we make bread now, we can set the bakery on fire when that jerk baker doesn't give us a sprinkle donut! Truly a technological leap forward.

Delacroix
Dec 7, 2010

:munch:


Only you can stop everything fires. :unsmigghh:

The dogge played dead really well! It might take a while to invent dog treats if bread is any indicator.

Thunderclan
Dec 24, 2013


I feel like maybe it is more that you figured out how to mass produce bread on a national/city scale as opposed to people just making a loaf for themselves at home...be concerning if people had only now figured out bread technology at all...

President Ark
May 16, 2010

:iiam:


Thunderclan posted:

I feel like maybe it is more that you figured out how to mass produce bread on a national/city scale as opposed to people just making a loaf for themselves at home...be concerning if people had only now figured out bread technology at all...

could also be the widespread use of leavening agents/yeasts/sourdough-starter-type processes, so your people are making something recognizable to modern people as "bread" instead of "a weird gritty pancake"

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



Some extra content for you all, an update on where we are on the Ancient Era Tech Tree



We're actually pretty far along, especially considering how slow some of the earlier updates in this Era went. I'd say we're about halfway through or so, though it's possible the latter half will go by quicker than the former just cause of how the science has been ramping of.

Or not, v40 (which just came out a couple days ago) might change some things.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013




You have finished researching: Reincarnation.

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011




Yo we absolutely must pick up piracy, that's like the evolution of our :smugdog: boatciv

Thunderclan
Dec 24, 2013


SSNeoman posted:

Yo we absolutely must pick up piracy, that's like the evolution of our :smugdog: boatciv

And then we'd have salty seadogs to go alongside our good land dogs

Mycroft Holmes
Mar 26, 2010

:wotwot: To the Moon! For Queen and Country!


why haven't you researched folk music?

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010




Fun Shoe

Why haven't you researched goddamn Magic?

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


Cerebral Bore posted:

Why haven't you researched goddamn Magic?

This is a good question.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009

I GAIN POWER FROM EATING PEOPLE, JUST ASSUME I'M ALWAYS VOTING TO EAT PEOPLE





He has though. Dogs are friendship animals. Friendship is magic. Therefore, we have magic

paragon1
Nov 22, 2010

FULL COMMUNISM NOW


What kind of Mesopotamians don't have irrigation??

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."


Cerebral Bore posted:

Why haven't you researched goddamn Magic?

They don't have a printing press, much less the technology to laminate or produce cardstock. No real point in researching it now.

sincx
Jul 13, 2012

furiously masturbating to anime titties

.

sincx fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Mar 23, 2021

Boksi
Jan 11, 2016


Super Jay Mann posted:



Boksi nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

:rip: me, again. Name something a bit sturdier after me next time, would you?

Also,

pls rename Hattusas to Fattusas, tia.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



C2C Gameplay Chapter 21: I AM THE LAW!!!



So it turns out v39 was not in fact the last version before they decided to break save files, as v40 now exists. Recently a couple of more experienced programmers joined the C2C team and helped overhaul the development process, fixing up and organizing big parts of the code and implementing better Source Control tools. Or that's how I understand it anyway. The end result is, in theory, a "better" version of v39, not really adding much new but simply making what was there a lot more stable and faster. And of course there are balance changes to talk about too, so let's get to it.



Oh. Well that's kind of a step back.




Okay, so first thing's first our gold output went down by a lot. Closer examination reveals that the main culprit is yet some more rebalanced Civics. Our buildings still produce about the same amount of gold as always, but a combination of a lower aggregate gold multiplier from our current set of Civics and much higher city maintenance multipliers from those same Civics turns what was a slight surplus into a slightly higher deficit.

Fortunately, as we have 25K gold in the bank and several gold-producing buildings I had to this point neglected to build because we were running a surplus, this shouldn't pose much of an issue in the long run. Just have to prioritize those buildings more and, failing that, build Wealth or even lower the slider. Our science took a noticeable but not very large hit in contrast, and as long as that keeps up I'm okay with things being a bit tougher to manage than they have been.



Leisure adds some happiness to certain animal training/hunting buildings, likely to simulate the idea of hunting/riding "for sport", but otherwise does not much else.

The new hint of transparency in the tech tooltips is nice while playing, a bit less nice when arranging screenshots for the LP.



So yeah, let's talk about this guy. Funnily enough, the Arsonist was nerfed in-between v39 and v40, and rightly so. It was/is, quite frankly, a ridiculously overpowered unit that simultaneously took on what should have been specialized roles of other units. It completely bypasses building defense for some reason, which means Walls and other such structures are useless against it, and even despite that it's able to bombard city defenses like a Siege unit, though thankfully that was cut from 7% bombard to 3% in v40. It can withdraw from combat, and even does up to 17% collateral because reasons. And on top of that it has a natural 25% against cities anyway, as if it needed that on top of just ignoring building defenses altogether. At least now it's down to 6 strength instead of 8 which neuters it somewhat when it comes time to merge them together into stronger units.

I'll build these to see if the changes to make them weaker actually succeeds in doing so, though I suspect with their versatility you still want to build these more often than other units if you're planning on warmongering.



It's also worth pointing out that the one big change to this version of the mod is a complete reorganization of the Prehistoric Era tech tree. I'd say more but seeing as we're long past this part of the game I can gladly say I don't care anymore and wish to simply move on!



There are a lot of neat visual changes to the game as well. Many poorly cropped or blurry sprites were either cleaned up or replaced completely, and of note is the brand new yields display, which arranges the food/production/commerce indicators on a tile into a triangular formation, seemingly to make it easier to display the exact number of a specific yield with problems with overlapping or other visual messiness. I'm not sure if I like it, and it'll take some getting used to but I can deal.

Also liking a lot of the new Resource sprites, some are a lot clearer as to what they are than before.



Sennacherib gets his third Developing Trait, picking up Philosophical. He's only the second known opponent to do so after Brazil.



Kanesh finally builds Mursili II. Bodyguard (Hero) isn't anything to write home about but 20% strength is nice and the +1 movement from the Speed promotion next to it is also nice.



Hey, I told you there was "not much else" here. There's only so much blood I can squeeze out of a stone!



Specialization is a fairly important tech. It allows a full complement of Tamed Animals which are similar to Breeding Pairs in that they allow you to spread around animal-specific buildings throughout your empire without needing to rely on constant hunting to do so. I believe by this point hunting on land is barely needed anymore. Hunting on water on the other hand, well, that's a bit of a different story. :v:



Gotta love when some fresh recruits show up to so graciously offer their services to the Hittite Empire :getin:



I don't think this wonder was here the last time I played. The Catacombs of Kom el Shoqafa adds some culture, happiness, health, and Engineer points, but importantly also provides Tourism, allowing me to get the Tourism gold bonus in one of my other cities, assuming I can make the wonder before the AI can.



Each Tamed Animal has several different local requirements, but they all need the Animal Trainer Complex, a catchall building unlocked here. My capital is running out of things to build so I think it'll make for a good starting point in getting a bunch of Tamed Animals up and about.



The tech also gives us the Specialized Civic, a Workforce Civic that replaces Communal. The effects are a strict upgrade over Communal for sure, though it does finally disable the Omega Child Crew building, which had been a reliable source of hammer production multipliers up to this point. You will be missed.

Well, in a bit anyway. Not gonna revolt quite yet.



More blood for the blood god :unsmigghh:



Bronze Working does a heck of a lot of stuff, including enable a bunch of new combat units, several new metal processing buildings focused on Tin and Bronze, and lots of cultures. And also some important Civics, as we'll see...



Ah see, it's as I thought, the AI started building this wonder pretty quickly and managed to finish before I could. Not a huge deal.



A hardcore push into various gold-producing buildings stops the bleeding entirely within a couple dozen turns. There aren't much of them left in my core cities though so it doesn't seem like I'll be able to run a super duper huge surplus for the time being. Though I'm sure with how our empire is shaping up gold will remain not-an-issue for a long while yet.

And hey, wait, this is new.




Cool v40 added a new button leading us to the Civlopedia page of our current era! The Game Start stats don't matter to us and the history entries are totally blank except for the "expected" period of each era (1200 BC Ancient Era, now that's a laugh :laffo: ) but it's neat nonetheless.



With the nearby barb city, now we're gonna see what these guys can really do. It took some Surround and Destroy for my +1 Axeman to crack the Archer defenses last time, I'm guessing at 6 strength these guys won't cut it without some merging. We'll see what happens.



Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

No.



Well it had to happen sooner or later. I ran into a German Horseman along with a couple of German dogs that had sight on my Stalker, and that was all she wrote. Unfortunate, but I got a lot of mileage out of him and I still have two more to work with.



So there's another barb city to the south. Time to see our Hero do something heroic.



Lieutenant (Hero) and Loyal Servant (Hero) seems like obvious picks, giving me the ability to attack multiple times and an additional movement on top of the 3 he starts with. There are a couple of other interesting promos but Heroic I seems like the stock, standard pick to take for a fast, powerful shock unit.

Did I mention that this Hero unit already has a >100% capture rate? No? Well now you do :getin:



Yeah, compared with the +1 Axe the +1 Arsonist with Might I and two City Raider promotions does much better on its own vs standard archer defenses. Even unmerged the 7 strength unit gets 43% (with the caveat that combat odds are kind of misleading in this mod in general for reasons I've already went over). So we can already see the potential power of this unit, and that's with it being nerfed down from 8 to 6 strength.



That's a looooot of Animals to choose from. Let's start with animals that can create herds, like the Tamed Cattle, Tamed Wild Boar, or the Tamed Horse, among others.



So, so many units I can't even begin to keep track of them. Many of them are generic updates to pretty much everything we have, but a whole lot more of them are just tons and tons and tons of unique units.

But enough of that.



Junta is a Power Civic on the same line as Matriarchy, but I don't think it's as good. I think I'm fine sticking with Matriarchy for now.



No, what we really want is Despotism, where we can finally embrace our Megalomania to our truest extent, doing away with the begrudging "cooperation" with those lesser fools and their clans and taking absolute power for myself.

All hail the great and powerful ruler. All hail Super Jay Mann :hist101: :black101:

Oh and we get a bunch of good stuff and, most importantly, a bigger buffer for expansion unhappiness, this time being up to 8 cities instead of 5.



It's going to take a bit of... convincing for the populace to see the benefits to my glorious absolute rule, but they'll come around eventually. Though I suppose overhauling our entire workforce structure at the same time probably doesn't help either.



One



Two



Three



Four



Five



Six kills, six military captives. Plus one more the following turn and a civilian captive for razing the city.

Heroes and Chariots are pretty awesome. :getin:



Plus some collateral for good measure.

It's a shame I'm going to have to eventually fill in these spots with cities.



Come on Arpad you lazy bums, what did fire ever do to you guys anyway?

The other options lose the Forge which uh, again, no.



Oh right, Fixed Borders. That's a thing now after switching to Despotism.

I'll get to that in a bit.



Our +1 Obsidian Axeman can be upgraded to, well, a regular plain old Axeman. :geno: It has 7 base strength, and with all the promotions our merged unit now has 13.50 combat strength.



Our first new city in a while comes, down, Malatya, as part of the continuing effort to claim the peninsula above China's core territory. Not that it can do anything right now since we're still in Anarchy.



Oh yeah, our Hunters finally got their next upgrade with Bronze Working, the Ranger. It's a bit better vs Animals and has a higher combat strength, otherwise it's the same type of unit it's always been.



So yeah, Fixed Borders. This is a feature that was in the original Rise of Mankind I think, and it carries over to its successor here. Tiles that you culturally expand to don't become yours automatically. Instead, by clicking the Claim Territory button any real combat unit can, as their turn, "claim" the tiles as belonging to their player regardless of your amount of culture. This is supposed to represent government systems where borders were enforced militarily rather than just by cultural mixing but I've never found it particularly useful. I suppose in a war with an opponent where you were sieging their border city you can dedicate some units to claiming contested territory that they own culturally as your own to better facilitate reinforcing and healing, but against an AI that can't play well it's a feature that just kind of exist.

You can also claim borders outside your territory, but if none of your culture exists in it then the claimed tile will simply revert to neutral before too long. This is supposed to not happen if you keep your unit stationed on it, as I recall, but in practice that doesn't actually seem to work for more than a few turns.

So yeah, it's there and I might mess around with it some, but I don't expect much use out of it outside of maybe claiming tiles that have my culture in them when borders expand if I actually understood that part right. And anyway, the effects of Fixed Borders reverts whenever you no longer have any Civics that enables it. Plus, as you've already seen, claiming tiles via defensive improvements already exists.



For reference, here's that gold tile the turn after the +1 Axeman claims it. I'm not staying there because that's a Desert tile and Desert tiles damage units, but it'll suffice in getting the idea across.



Our anarchy ends, and we're in the red again. Two reasons for this, the Civics we chose raised our overall city maintenance yet again, and also because it turns out the free Chief's Hut buildings granted to us by Hill of Tara do actually stop working upon switching off the Chiefdom Civic. Those buildings reduced total maintenance in the city by 7% which sounds small but really isn't at this number of cities. :doh:

Even still, our science shot up quite a bit, by roughly 200 or so just by switching Civics. I'd say it was well worth the trouble.



Not to worry though, cause our glorious rule has its own way of dealing with silly financial difficulties. :ssh:



Sundial is sparse but, along with another tech, actually does have a neat wonder I want to build at some point for reasons that will become immediately obvious. Not for a while though.



So another thing that Chief's Hut I mentioned earlier helped with was Crime prevention. It was a straight -10 Crime in every city that's just gone now, so I'm going to have to compensate somehow. Most of my cities will probably be just fine for now but I really want to stay ahead of the Property curve since that can really sneak up on you if you're not careful.

Fortunately, the Indus culture, of which the ability to be built was granted so graciously by our conquest of Chinese Guangzhou, provides it unique unit to help us: the Harappa Watcher. It's similar to a standard unit on the Law Enforcement line of units but automatically starts with Policing III, which we don't even normally have access to yet, augmenting its already strong crime prevention numbers to -12 altogether. Along with the standard build up command one of them alone will provide more than enough crime prevention to cover the loss of the Chief's Hut.

The main drawback, as with all unique units, is that there's a cap on how many you can have. For this unit, I can only have up to 15.



Barbarians randomly showing up next to my territory in areas I should have vision on really grinds my gears. On the other hand, it does provide an opportunity for Labarna to show his stuff.



Truwa is founded, and my maintenance jumps up yet again. This might actually start to become a problem if I'm too liberal in my expansion.



Oh right, I forgot I was building this in Tuwana. Petra isn't quite the monster Civ 5 players would be used to, but +1 trade routes everywhere is nothing to sneeze at. The tourism is nice too.





Both of these wonders require the Sundial building which is whatever. Gate of the Sun doesn't really do anything but does provide tourism, so it's worth building anyway. Antikythera Mechanism straight up gives a free tech so I want this eventually but it's actually going to be a while before I can build it because I lack Bronze Wares. And uh, it turns out there's a slight problem with that. You see, in order to make Bronze, you need to alloy Copper and Tin together. The Copper is no big deal, we've had that for ages, but uh, it turns out we don't have Tin available.

Oh no, we have Tin nodes, there's actually quite a few of them in fact, both in my and others' territories. It's just that, uh,



Here's some Tin.



And here's some more Tin.



And here's even more Tin in Carthage's borders :suicide:



In fact, I only found a single spot on the visible map where there's Tin not on a mountain, and it's on the literal other side of the world in Assyrian territory. Invasion is an option? I guess? I suppose I could try trading for it whenever he gets around to connecting it?

Either way, lacking Bronze is not a huge dealbreaker, and it's not like those mountain Tin tiles won't eventually be improved, it'll just take a little while to get the tech needed to do so. So yeah.

...Actually hold that thought, we'll get back to this later...



Ah, good ol wise King Solomon.



You know, this is one case where giving him a desk job would actually be historically justified! :v:

This Achievement is pretty swell, providing trade routes and food all at once. Goes well with our Seafaring Trait



Plough improves our farms, allows a bunch of new vegetable-focused Farm buildings, and allows a ton of new units which are essentially Workers but now with Animal friends. :shittydog:

Honestly I probably should have gotten this a while ago but I was focused on getting Religious stuff and Bronze Working, so stuff like this tends to slip through the cracks.



The Colossus of Rhodes is still a thing, and it does the same thing to water tiles it always has. Of course I'm building it.



The Farm - Crop buildings work pretty much exactly like the Orchard buildings do, except they give Vegetables rather than Fruit. It's interesting to see crops represented in both thing and Orchards which aren't actually Resources but require a specific combination of Resources in the city vicinity to be built, like how this Carrot building needs both Wheat and Potatoes.



Yo Ho Ho we be pirates. Yo Ho Ho we be committing Piracy. :pirate:



Some Exiles got near my capital somehow and tried to attack a Tamed Animal of mine, so thus more doggos :shittydog:

Say hello to Bark Ruffalo, he'll be around patrolling my core territory for any other riffraff.




New verse, same as the first.

Loving all these captives these barbarians are giving me :)



Looks like Persia is in quite a bind, being boxed in by China pretty quickly.



Piracy unlocks Cog Merchants, which allow for Trading missions over sea, though like that one event unit we received before can't perform any of those missions without Open Borders.



I totally could just build these Smuggler's Shanty buildings in key cities to deal with my gold problem. We can even build pirate ships (eventually) with this building! Just get a couple more Law Enforcement units to offset the crime and we're golden.



Locks lets us lock our houses, which somehow also makes Burglars just spawn out of the ether to terrorize homes, and also unlocks the cultur-- oh come on :argh:



I'm certainly no authority on the Romani or their history of (and continued) mistreatment by those on the European continent and everywhere else, but at the very least the implications here seem to be in bad taste. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.



Aha, this might actually work. Though it's gonna take a bit of extra setup.

Oh, where did that Work Mule come from? Let's back up just a bit.



This is Plough. I talked about the Crops and stuff but didn't elaborate any more on the new Worker units. Well here we are.

As mentioned, with Plough we can upgrade our Workers to more advanced Worker units that are tied to a specific animal. Dog Workers are the most generic, and are the same as regular Workers except they work faster.



Other animal Workers similarly work faster but may have some inherent promotions based on which animal it is. The Camel Worker has desert-related promotions while the Buffalo Worker works well in forests and green flatlands.



The Work Mule is another such Worker, and it is one of the Workers that starts with the coveted Mountaineer promotion, which allows the unit that has it to enter Mountain tiles before the tech to do so allows it on a permanent basis.

So I was able to use this worker to walk on top of the Tin Ore node. But I can't place a mine there cause you actually need a special improvement, the Mountain mine, to improve mountain tiles in a general sense. But I can place a Stone Tools Workshop there which, when worked, will eventually upgrade to a regular Mine and hook up our Tin Ore to be used in further processing!

That's the theory anyway, I just hope it works out. Problem is that the Tin Ore isn't actually workable by any city in our empire. What to do, what to do...



Colossus finishes which will help boost our economy in the long run once working water tiles becomes more worthwhile.



Seraphim of Sarov is a Russian saint

Wikipedia posted:

Saint Seraphim of Sarov (Russian: Серафим Саровский) (30 July [O.S. 19 July] 1754 (or 1759) Ė 14 January [O.S. 2 January] 1833), born Prokhor Moshnin (Прохор Мошнин), is one of the most renowned Russian saints in the Eastern Orthodox Church. He is generally considered the greatest of the 19th-century startsy (elders). Seraphim extended the monastic teachings of contemplation, theoria and self-denial to the layperson. He taught that the purpose of the Christian life was to acquire the Holy Spirit. Perhaps his most popular quotation amongst Orthodox believers is "Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved."





The Burglar is the next in the Criminal line of units, and it's a doozy, causing +16 crime to cities. Shame we can only have two of them. The Locksmith is quite nice though, just a straight 5 espionage and -10 crime for cheap with no other problematic requirements other than population.



Seafaring is pretty important, though it may not seem like it at first. It unlocks the Trireme a solid naval unit, a Civic we may or may not switch to right away, and a couple nice buildings and wonders. It'll be worth reaching so far down the tree for this, trust me.



Ahhiyawa is founded smack dab in the middle of my territory. I didn't want to build another city so soon but hey, circumstances are what they are. :v:



It's unhappy and doesn't have any property control units or anything yet, but it is doing the one job it was sent to do: work that Tin Ore tile until it becomes a Mine. I'll also take this opportunity to go full hands off and let the Governor AI build infrastructure in my city for me and see what the results are. I'm not sure if the production automation properly takes into account Multiple Production (it didn't when I played years ago) but we'll worry about that if the time comes.

It has nothing to do with me being lazy, okay?




The Harbor increases trade route yield by 25%, and that actually matters in this game since trade routes are A) more powerful and B) aren't rounded to the nearest integer, so even small percentage boosts add up. The Great Lighthouse of Alexandria has the same effect as its BTS counterpart, giving 2 trade routes in every coastal city plus two merchant points.




The Harbormaster's Office is needed for a lot of current future coastal buildings, one of which is the Pier, adding +1 food and commerce to all water tiles. Water tiles at this point are starting to approach "pretty tantalizing" status.

However, most important of all...



We can now traverse sea tiles :woop:

(But not ocean, that's still a while away)

----------

NEXT TIME: We explore the not-quite-open-but-at-least-slightly-ajar seas. Also we backfill some early cheap techs, hopefully get our Tin online, and maybe finally get some real oceanside hunting done for once.

Also I'm saying in advance that you probably shouldn't expect the next update out any time soon because Trails of Cold Steel III comes out this week and I'm going to be uh, busy :sweatdrop:

That also is, incidentally, why I went and got this update out as quickly as I did. Sorry in advance!

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011




Dude, if we can get magic we can become mage pirates. Maximum lich king mode

ssmagus
Apr 2, 2010
Assmagus, LPer ass-traordinaire

Well, Working that mined mountain won't upgrade it, because you need to unlock the improvement it upgrades into first, sadly. However, that's not needed! There might be a tech in the classical era about building roads that might unlock something to help with that tin problem. You will also be able to get some by building a mining camp, then the mine and smelter. As long as it's city area is how it works for that. Because of the vicinity autobuild mechanics. Also, Try pressing Shift + X while in the ALT + x dotmap mode!

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010




Fun Shoe

Super Jay Mann posted:

Locks lets us lock our houses, which somehow also makes Burglars just spawn out of the ether to terrorize homes, and also unlocks the cultur-- oh come on :argh:



I'm certainly no authority on the Romani or their history of (and continued) mistreatment by those on the European continent and everywhere else, but at the very least the implications here seem to be in bad taste. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

:yikes:

So yeah, you're pretty spot on here. That poo poo is pretty drat bad.

Roobanguy
May 30, 2011



just gonna throw this back in here

Roobanguy posted:

so i've been playing this mod, and guess what the Romani special unit is?

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013




quote:

Romani slur

yikes indeed

Could you have built a fort on the tin? Does that still provide the resource in this mod, or has that been done away with?

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.


Well that is a nasty surprise. Biotruths and then blatant racism. Sure. Is there anything else this bad we should know about? :stonk:

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



Super Jay Mann posted:

Locks lets us lock our houses, which somehow also makes Burglars just spawn out of the ether to terrorize homes, and also unlocks the cultur-- oh come on :argh:



I'm certainly no authority on the Romani or their history of (and continued) mistreatment by those on the European continent and everywhere else, but at the very least the implications here seem to be in bad taste. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.

Roobanguy posted:

just gonna throw this back in here

Not that surprising considering how right-wing some of the dev team members are

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



biosterous posted:

yikes indeed

Could you have built a fort on the tin? Does that still provide the resource in this mod, or has that been done away with?

I believe that it still a feature in this mod though I'm not quite 100% sure. It doesn't matter anyway as we can't build Wooden Palisades on mountain tiles anyway. Only the Stone Tools Workshop and a road tile are allowed right now.

VulpesInculta
Jul 11, 2012


Kangxi posted:

Well that is a nasty surprise. Biotruths and then blatant racism. Sure. Is there anything else this bad we should know about? :stonk:

I'm playing through the mod currently and there are a disturbing number of quotes from Nazis. For instance the quote for Romanticism is Leni Riefenstahl.

Dire Lemming
Jan 19, 2016


Kangxi posted:

Well that is a nasty surprise. Biotruths and then blatant racism. Sure. Is there anything else this bad we should know about? :stonk:

I'm currently in the atomic era, there's definitely more to come of both though not for a while.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013




Odds on Segregation being a technology to research?

Yessod
Mar 21, 2007


Looking forward to Judaismís special unit, shape-shifting blood-drinking lizard aliens.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Ibblebibble posted:

Odds on Segregation being a technology to research?

Or Feminism, which hits you with a penalty to science, gold, industry, or all of the above.

Randalor
Sep 4, 2011






I'm "looking forward" to Eugenics and the Holocaust world wonder (with a quote both saying it was right and just, and also that the holocaust was a lie). Wait, not looking forward, dreading seeing. I'm dreading seeing Eugenic and the holocaust show up. Please tell me those aren't things in this game. Please.

Dire Lemming
Jan 19, 2016


Randalor posted:

I'm "looking forward" to Eugenics and the Holocaust world wonder (with a quote both saying it was right and just, and also that the holocaust was a lie). Wait, not looking forward, dreading seeing. I'm dreading seeing Eugenic and the holocaust show up. Please tell me those aren't things in this game. Please.

Nothing I've seen is worse than what's already been shown, it's just more of the same.

AmishSpecialForces
Jul 1, 2008


I still love playing modded civ 4 so i think I'll give this a try. I look forward to my first few turns taking hours as i try to figure out all the dense new bullshit.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



C2C Gameplay Chapter 22: "Where's the X? It's supposed to be right here, 10,000 paces East." "Oooooh, East? I thought you said Weast."

And we're back!



So at the end of last update, we gained the ability to sail over Sea tiles (but not ocean tiles), opening up where we can explore a bit and, as seen here, giving us a host of new animals to hunt. It's worth nothing that most sea animals were actually unreachable by our ships because of the previous Sea tile restriction, so hunting and pursuing them even with more advance seafaring vessels was a bit difficult. I'm hoping over the course of the next several dozen turns we can take advantage of our newfound ability to scope out these animals.



Folk Medicine unlocks the Medicine Man, the next step in the Healer line of units. I could have gotten this tech a while ago but there was no real need to in lieu of everything else I was aiming for.



With new lands to discover we also get first dibs on any Unexplored Islands in areas inaccessible without Seafaring, and it immediately pays dividends by giving us science. Hostile units spawning is still a thing that can happen though, so I need to keep myself on guard to ensure nothing bad happens to my exploring units.



Fortunately, my War Galleys that had to this point been farming XP off of Persia's capital are now ready to follow my exploring Outriggers into these new areas.

(It also shows off why Truwa was even founded this early. China's borders were cutting me off from escaping the bay near Guangzhou so I needed to assert my own borders and get some Palisades up to provide a route for my boats.)



One thing I hadn't noted about The Great Lighthouse last time is its really high Flammability property. Unlike the other properties, Flammability doesn't have any direct bearing on city yields or creates modifier buildings at all. What it does do at certain thresholds is unlock various harmful events that have a chance to fire (no pun intended), burning down buildings and other such things. This isn't a huge deal to be honest and I've already had to rebuild a couple of buildings in some cities because of these events, I just thought I'd note it since I haven't said anything to this point about why Flammability matters at all.




The Acupuncturist's Shop is an unremarkable building, providing some happiness, health, and Disease reduction, except for the fact that it requires Culture (Asian), making it one of the relatively few examples of regular buildings that require one of the general starter Cultures to be built. Obviously, as we own Guangzhou, that includes us.



Folk Music provides more culture from various buildings and access to some new Manufactured Resources, but is otherwise a filler tech I just want to backfill since it's cheap and quick.



Daniel Bernoulli was a Swiss mathematician and physicist. He is probably best known for Bernoulli's principle, which is the underlying principle behind, among other things, that thing they teach you in Elementary school about how airplane wings generate lift because the air moving above the wing generates less pressure than the air moving below the wing.



We do get another Middle Eastern Culture, the Mittanni, from Folk Music which has an interesting Chariot replacement, so maybe we'll see one of those at some point.



Salt Processing lets us, er, process salt. I guess. And Borax too, though from my quick look it doesn't seem like Borax actually does anything as of yet, so that's pretty pointless.




Oh hey, a natural wonder on that big unexplored continent. That's good to know, it should be well worth putting a city in that area if I can find a good spot.



And one of the two islands you saw in that screenshot grants us Mummification! Which, sadly, is entirely worthless to us!



Another Great Prophet is born. I can get the great shrine for Andeanism if I want, but I think I'd rather hold on to him for another purpose.




Germany builds Mesa Verde, which is nice but not really a priority for me so it's okay. I'm not even sure if I have a city with the proper requirements to get it.



Along with salt related buildings (including a couple of alternate ways of getting Salt if you don't have the resource on your map, irrelevant for us) we also get Desert Worker II, the next promotion in that Worker speed line.




Irrigation is another agriculture tech, giving farms another +1 food as well as allowing farms to spread irrigation to tiles without fresh water. Also a bunch more Farm/Crop buildings to enhance food/gold production in cities with access to different resources.

Incidentally, this is also where we'd get the Irrigation Canals building if we weren't already getting them for free from our wonder whose name I don't remember :v:



Gardening allows a bunch of bug-related buildings that probably don't matter but do provide science, though the conditions to build them can be annoying. I'm going here for another reason though...



Oh hey, I also forgot for a while. Seafaring also let's us upgrade our War Galleys to Triremes, the next naval unit in that upgrade line.



The Great Lighthouse finishes, bumping our commerce and, in turn, science up some more. We're up to 1709 science per turn, so techs in this era are starting to get blown through pretty quickly.



A landing party is assembled with 2 Rangers, some wolves, and Labarna leading them to explore the Southeast island. There are a couple of resources on here already that aren't in our empire, though what I'm really hoping for is to find some Tin in the uncovered areas my boats couldn't see. Getting some new subdued animals would be nice too.




The Hanging Gardens of Babylon becomes available here, and I'm definitely building that ASAP. I do worry that holding off on Gardening for so long means one of the AIs might already be there and building it, but I'm confident I can get it out quickly enough. Especially with Trade Caravans.




Nocturnalism is a new Prehistoric tech added in v40 that allows the building of Ambushers and Rogues. It's useless for us now as we're well past using those units, but I might as well get it out of the way while I'm thinking about it.



China settled a city down south and has another settling party coming up. I would have liked to take control of that gold but I can tolerate China getting more powerful for the sake of the LP. Hopefully Qin doesn't settle TOO close.



I'm pretty sure you are meant to get Sericulture before Gardening seeing as a bunch of buildings at Gardening rely on buildings in Sericulture. I also just noticed looking here that I have zero Silk in my entire empire, or even within any reasonable distance of my empire. Seems like all of it is around Carthage/Germany's area.



The Community Garden is one of those buildings like the Stone Tools Maker or the Mining Camp that gets progressively better as you go down the tech tree. In this case it provides progressively better food yields, and is also the prerequisite for all the bug-related buildings from the Gardening tech.




Aretas III is born in Assyria, the Hero of the Nabatean culture.




Silk Road would be a pretty nice wonder to get, what with the +25% gold, the +1 commerce from merchant specialists, automatic roads, etc. The problem is that A) we need a later Classical Era tech to even start building it, and B) we have no Silk :argh:

Incidentally, we also need Silk for all of these bug-related buildings, which means we're also locked out from these and Gardening's various buildings!



Lead Working is the same as most of the other metal working techs, providing Lead ingots and wares for various production bonuses/building unlocks later on in the game.



Frederick is next in line in getting the third Developing Trait. He acquires Seafaring, which makes us navy buddies and is a pretty good choice for his empire as I'm reasonably sure all of his cities so far as coastal.



I'm not sure who that's supposed to be a picture of. Regardless, I guess the +1 hammer is nice.



A view of the whole Southeast island. No Tin unfortunately, but still plenty of nice spots to settle cities. Will probably want to wait for better government Civics but it'd be prudent to prepare some settlers and accompanying Property control units now.



Along with the usual assortment of buildings, a city with both Lead and Silver can make the Mine (Cinnabar), which provides Cinnabar Ore. The resource itself is useless right now but the building does provide extra hammers and gold.

It also turns out Kummanni just happens to have both Silver and Lead in its vicinity!



Imagine if researching Resurrection meant we could actually bring back the dead instead of merely believing it could happen :ghost:



The Hanging Gardens finish, specifically in Guangzhou. Along with the extra population we also have another city generating Tourism, allowing it to get that nice gold bonus.





Beliefs are certain special National Wonders that can be built by Great Prophets. In this case, National Belief (Ressurection) provides some pretty substantial crime reduction among other things to all cities in the empire. I could use my spare Great Prophet for this, but I still have other plans for him.



Polytheism doesn't found Hinduism anymore, but it does provide plenty of nice wonders, familiar or otherwise, that I would be interested in getting.



One fun thing to do with Fixed Borders is take advantage of the temporary culture to do some upgrades. In this case, one of the barbs on the island netted me a Neanderthal captive, which I will upgrade to a worker which will start putting watchtowers all over the island to assert it as my territory.



Jan Szczepanik was a Polish inventory, with most of his inventions being related to motion pictures, photography, and television.

Also worth noting that at some point I started getting production for clearing Forests, as is usual in the base game. I hadn't mentioned it before, but when you first get the ability to clear forests (way back in Prehistoric Era), doing so netted you no hammers at all, as you were "burning" the vegetation and not chopping it. one of the Ancient Era techs enabled the Worker action that gives production when clearing forests but I can't for the life of me figure out precisely when. And I'm too lazy to look too closely :geno:



Germany has done a decent job trying to fill in the space between his empire and his aggressive Jade city. No doubt since Carthage has been hesitant to build new cities he'll be filling in even more of that space before too long.



Of course, I've also been taking measures to secure my own territory, spamming Watchtowers in the big void north of Adana to ensure that neither Carthage nor Germany can get any cities in this area without a fight.



Shuttarna II is the Mittanni Hero, being a 14th century BCE king who was an ally of Egyptian Pharaoh Amenhotep III.

He'll probably end up being the first Hero I settle in as a specialist.



Dang, false alarm. Outside of Temple of Artemis, which has the exact same effect plus some Tourism, all the other Polytheism wonders require the Hellenism religion to build, which is a Classical Era religion.



On the bright side, we do gain access to Culture (Indian), though annoyingly with no valid place to build it...



Yep, we're doing this. Kemetism is up next, the religious wonders/buildings associated with it are too good to ignore.




I suppose technically in the long run the +1 science per turn is better, but it's honestly splitting hairs and I always love me some burst science :v:



So, +100% Trade Route Yield is pretty terrible in base Civ 4 so building Temple of Artemis is almost always a bad idea there, unless you really wanted the free Priest. However, in C2C, trade routes provide food and hammers long with commerce, and my capital alone already has 12 of them, with more likely to come as I get better and better economic techs. So something like +100% Trade Route Yield even in the one city becomes incredibly appealing in those circumstances. And I still get the Priest on top of that. :catholic:





Huh, well that's not where I expected the Kemetism Holy City to be :geno:

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NEXT TIME: Oh hey it turns out a governmental system wherein one guy gets to do whatever he wants with the entire country for no reason at all might be slightly unpopular. Who knew? :v:

We're actually pretty close to done with the Ancient Era at this point, maybe two or three more updates until we hit Classical. From there we'll have some more interesting options open up, along with maybe a vote or two.

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.


Welcome back! I'm excited to see what convoluted mechanics the mod throws at us next.

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011




We're :smugdog: pirates who believe we will never die and instead be reborn as something even more :smug: and awesome.

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013





Uggghhh, this quote is not only not relevant but completely wrong.

In a series of books by David Eddings, the character called Silk often says "Trust me." David Eddings doesn't say "Trust me. Silk."

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sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.




biosterous posted:

Uggghhh, this quote is not only not relevant but completely wrong.

In a series of books by David Eddings, the character called Silk often says "Trust me." David Eddings doesn't say "Trust me. Silk."

I just want to say one word to you, just one word: plastics Silk.

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