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Jul 6, 2007

It's been a month! This LP still happening? I hope so, it's a fun read :f5:


Nov 8, 2006

So that's the post you've decided to go with, is it?

And there's been a major release since the last LP update. Should be lots to show off.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

Geshtal posted:

And there's been a major release since the last LP update. Should be lots to show off.

Actually no, since the update I have yet to post (sorry :sweatdrop:) is based on play that has already been done for a while now.

The one after next though is where things are going to start reflecting the many changes that have come in the last month or so, so look forward to that. As for the next update, it should be this week. Or more accurately, it better be this week since I'm going to be out of town this weekend and afterwards busy starting and training for my new job next week :woop:

So yeah, not dead yet.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

C2C Gameplay Chapter 17: YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

So after procrastinating for entirely too long in getting this update which was played weeks ago out (I blame, in order: my laziness, my job search which concluded recently, and Zero/Ao no Kiseki :sweatdrop:) there's quite a lot to go over before we proceed.

First off, as I already said, I have a new job. Ironically, the time demands of this job are anticipated to be at least less than the time I spent trying to get a job in the first place, so in the long run it shouldn't disrupt the playing and updating of this game any more than usual. The extra financial security will probably help too. Really, as far as delayed updating goes you have to fear me getting obsessed with playing another game than you do anything having to do with my job.

Additionally, as was pointed out, the developers of this mod have had a surge of activity over the past month or so, resulting in the public release of C2C v39. This doesn't change much immediately as far as this LP goes since I've been following the most recent SVN releases leading up to this version anyway, but it does mean one important thing: It's unlikely I'll be updating my game past this public release regardless of whatever changes are made from here on out since, as I understand from various Discord messages and forum posts, development leading to v40 is going to result in much more fundamental changes to the core design that will likely break any save game compatibility from this current version. I'm not sure if that's strictly an issue as of this writing, but I figured just to stave off any future concerns of this nature that I'll simply lock my current game to what the devs "intend" the public to play. It'll also make things easier on me since I can now properly plan for future developments of this campaign without worrying about further sweeping balance and/or technical changes to the game's structure that throw everything off. This also means I'll be holding off the planned Religion update until we get to v39 proper, just for consistency's sake.

But that's for later. For now, we're still in an SVN revision of a couple months ago as I finally finish up the backlog of screenshots I had and reach the thrilling resolution of last chapter's harrowing cliffhanger. That is, China being dicks :argh:

Before that though, I finally manage a successful subdue roll a seafaring animal by killing a small Saltwater crocodile. Instead of gaining ownership of the animal (which, admittedly, would make no sense in this context) we receive something called a Strange tales of the Sea. It serves a similar purpose to a subdued animal but uh... well, I think it's better to just show you in a bit.

Meanwhile, around Bactrian I position my first of several Galleys to begin a roundabout migration. As you can see I have a worker inside the Galley already with several other workers ready to follow. Much like the Ambushers, Galleys can carry any number of units so long as the combined cargo volume of the units doesn't exceed the Cargo Space of 400. One worker takes up 33 Cargo Volume which means in theory I could fit 12 of them on one Galley, though in practice I'm not entirely sure how this math would work out.

As for where the workers are going, I decided that I needed some sort of foothold on the other side of that lake. Unfortunately, with China's culture blocking the southern route, I am forced to either declare war on them to pass through (something I could probably easily manage) or circumvent the northern mountainous pass via prodigious use of naval transports. The war path was tempting, but I want to maintain at least some appearance of peaceful diplomacy this early in the game. Basically, unless I have the means to actually invade and take territory, I don't plan on abusing questionable AI with convenient war declarations unless absolutely necessary.

I should note that since lakes don't count as coast, neither this city site nor Tuwaku can build any boats to ferry units across the lake you might hope. That'll be addressed in the future, but for now everything needs to be moved the long way around.

Along with the Stargazer's Hut, we also get some fairly powerful wonders that I'm definitely building. The Cheomseongdae provides a free tech ala The Oracle along with slightly longer Golden Ages, while the Serpent Mound gives +2 science to the Tumulas, an otherwise unremarkable building we got at Ceremonial Burial.

The Lusitani were apparently the inhabitants of pre-Roman Portugal? Good to see more cultures being built by the AI though.

Yes, you are looking at this correctly. Tales of Salt water crocodile (small) is quite literally just that. A giant parchment scroll that is also a naval Civilian unit and can be used to build myths just like subdued animals. I'm still not entirely sure what this unit is supposed to be in the context of the world itself but I suppose it's best to just roll with it. :v:

Sacrifice Cult unlocks Worldview - Human Sacrifice which allows buildings that makes unhappiness for sacrificing population last for a shorter duration. Given the obscene food requirements in this mod I don't plan to make use of sacrificing population at all I have no real incentive to run it unless I go for certain specific religious and cultural buildings. Naturally, we also gain access to the Aztec culture in the process.

Carthage founds Carteia in a not very good spot. I mean, it's not terrible for a tundra city and in fact has access to some good tiles and immediately provides Dido Stone, but otherwise it's more like a filler city you'd place when all the actual important spots are taken. Meanwhile, this is Dido's fourth city.

Speaking of Carthage, they spawn a Great Merchant which they will no doubt send out on a trade mission. China meanwhile completes AW Ancient Way of the Warrior, giving a free +1 strength to Melee units for the duration of the Era. Troubling considering their close proximity.

Assyria also continues expanding relatively unchallenged in their corner of the world.

Oh hey, I wonder where that Chinese settling party is going :suicide:

As I feared, China is most definitely seeking to very aggressively forward settle me yet again. If he manages to gain a foothold on that lake it's going to be very difficult for me to expand in that direction safely, and I almost certainly will have to prepare for war. I've been sending Property control units, animals, workers, and combat units to the proposed city site in preparation, but the Settler itself is still a ways out, having been built in my capital and currently being transported via Galley. At this rate, if China is planning on settling close to Guangzhou I won't be able to beat them there :argh:

After the Settler, the capital starts going for the free tech from Cheomseongdae. It won't finish it right away though, I have a specific plan for that one.

Human Sacrifice might not be kosher for the Hittites, but this tech isn't a total wash. It's the second tech requirement to build the Stalker, which is a very, very good thing :getin:

China is on the cusp of ruining my plans. They could settle right on that spot and there isn't a dang thing I can do about. Nope, I'm certainly screwed here. I was just too slow.

Ha! As if :smug:

A last-second epiphany and desperation reveals the simple answer. I don't have to beat them to the site, I simply need to ensure they can't actually settle here. Staking my claim to neighboring territory via a hastily built Fortified Cave to act as a wall to China's settling party fits this purpose quite nicely! I could have built a palisade instead but the cave actually required less workers.

Board Games is self-explanatory. I invent chess, or at least checkers. At least now my citizens will have something to do for fun that isn't playing music or engaging in blood sport or enslaving Neanderthals or whatever else they're passing the time with now.

My settler is still a ways out from the city site, so I'm not entirely out of the woods yet as far as China goes. I'm able to expedite my settling party's movement though by daisy chaining several galleys together as shown though. Units on a transport can immediately move to another neighboring transport once per turn, so with the right setup you can have an effective movement range of about twice what a Galley can normally move. This works in the base game as well and is a key component of naval warfare in serious MP Civ 4 games.

Oh yes, I almost forgot, there were two settling parties in the end of the last update. One of them went my way, but the other one just continued to travel Northwest. Very, very Northwest in fact. Very alarmingly close to France in fact :stare:

Seems like the spot I placed the cave was exactly where China wanted to settle or close to it. After denying the spot the AI does that thing where they have no idea what to do or where to go so it just kind of disperses and sits around confused and bewildered.

I build another palisade nonetheless just for insurance. Also, as my Ambusher/Great General pair is invisible they're able to pass through China's territory with ease and provide a much needed Captive to build up my Slave infrastructure in the upcoming new city.

Speaking of Ambushers, I won't have any of them much longer. Not because of anything bad mind you, but because they will all be upgraded to Stalkers, the next unit on the Strike Team unit line. It's an expensive unit upgrade for what it's worth, not that money is an issue at this point. Moving my Ambusher back did reveal a stray Exile that somehow broke through my borders, so that's convenient to know.

Oh, well this is interesting.

We basically got a free Great Merchant :woop: Or at least the naval version of one.

Unfortunately it's not all good news. It can explore rival territory as shown here but what it doesn't tell you is that you can't actually enter rival cities, which is the only way to actually execute Trade Missions. We have to wait for Open Borders to be able to use this unit so it'll mostly just be exploring for now.

Stalkers are more powerful versions of Ambushers and have all the same abilities plus an additional one: The ability to perform Ranged Assaults.

Not a game changer but a nice perk when faced with more powerful enemies.

Arpad is founded without further incident and with that my foothold into the Western part of the continent is secure. There's going to be contention with China though so I can't rest on my laurels. Getting to the next Government Civic will be important to ensure I can expand more without running into happiness problems.

I was hoping for a Scientist to build that Standardization wonder I mentioned earlier, but this works too.

Great Prophets still have the task of building the Shrine for a particular religion and as seen here, there are a looot of them. More about this in the Religion update, but I'll start by saying that Shrines are a bit more varied in effect depending on religion.

Case-in-point, the prophet builds Babel Tower, Mesopotamism's Shrine, a couple turns later which provides +1 gold and +1 culture to cities with the religion as well as +1 happy to all my cities. The culture and happiness is something many other religious shrines don't give. However, as a trade-off we also don't get the 3 Priest slots that usually comes with a more typical Shrine in this mod.

But I digress, let's back up a bit. Yes, this is China's second settling party. Yes, this is exactly where they settle on the following turn, founding Chengdu. I don't even know what to say to this. Qin is just straight up trolling the entire side of this map and I can't even be mad about it any more. It's actually kind of amazing how brazen he's been this game. Really though, I'm more worried that France still hasn't settled a third city despite having a moving settling party for ages now.

Of course if Qin continues this way he will die, but let's leave matters of forced displacement and aggressive settling for later.

Dido sends her merchant my way unescorted. I really wanted to kill it right then and there but Dido did allow my own merchant to live for some reason, so I decide to leave it be. Not that I expect the gold to be particularly helpful to an AI that already cheats, but you know, fair play and all.

Really dropped the ball here by not having a quote from noted Robin Williams masterpiece Toys.

Events like this are just cute at this point.

Ceremony is another unassuming tech, but is the immediate prerequisite to a much more important one.

5-move doggos are no joke :shittydog:

Serpent Mound was built in Carchemish, a good choice since I've been stacking prophet points in that city anyway. The boost to science is nice as well.

China's AI continues to be very confused. I wonder if this is a Property control party that's supposed to be in the capital but ended up wandering around for no good reason. They just kind of sit around this area for the rest of the update, so who knows what's going on here.

The Stalker upgrade is quite massive, as they can now make trivial work of even really strong units like elephants.

More and more expansion by Assyria. This is their seventh or eighth city? I don't even remember anymore.

I suppose Ceremony isn't entirely useless. It does provide access to the Bridal Shop which gives +1% gold for having stuff like Hats, Jewelry, and Shoes. Still seems wildly anachronistic though.

Now Priesthood is where all the fun is. Lots of useful religious wonders, some useful general wonders but, most importantly, the ability to build Temples in my empire :woop:

Oh hey, it seems like China got that same religious wedding event we got earlier and opted for the most hostile option, giving me the option to immediately declare war. In retrospect, this could have been an opportunity to declare war in a way that would make sense diplomatically but given that I've already secured the city spot I wanted it's fine to just keep things peaceful for a while longer.

With Kummanni completely out of useful buildings to build, I set it to Lesser Research again to try and push Priesthood faster. Priesthood is a bit of a ways down the Ancient Era tree so even with the extra beakers putting my science rate to 707 per turn it's still a 9 turn research. Research times having been starting to add up again as of late.

The borders to Arpad expand quickly and I am now starting to pur culture into the contested tiles around Guangzhou. Being able to grab the Lemon tile and the tile NE of it will make transportation between my core land and the Southwest portions significantly easier, though even if I can't eventually get these tiles I have a plan to deal with it.

Hattusas is one turn away from finishing the Cheomseongdae, but I won't need it right this second so it'll join the Lesser Research fun to speed up Priesthood some more.

At least one of the lagging AIs has finally decided to expand in earnest. Better late than never I suppose *glares at France*

A wide view of our core empire. Aside from the newer cities and Kanesh building a wonder, all the cities are building Lesser Research since, again, they have nothing useful to build. Yeah, I was kind of surprised that I managed to fill out the important building backlog for all these cities so quickly. Won't last long though, not with some of the stuff being unlocked in upcoming techs.

You can also see the effect all of those palisades have, claiming tons of otherwise empty territory that I won't need to worry about barbs spawning in. Obviously it'd be ideal to just have cities in all those empty pockets but given the soft cap on cities this is the best I can do for now.

Looks like China isn't the only civ getting in on the city spam action. Germany has multiple settling parties out, which represents their seventh and eighth cities. Wonder just how far they'll encroach into Carthage's space.

Priesthood also unlocks some Hero units, although none that will ever be applicable to me. Appreciate the extra science on Elder Councils as well.

I was hoping to section this off into the Religion update, but since I'm delaying that again I'll just cover Mesopotamism's specific gimmicks here. It's not particularly complicated: we don't get monasteries or cathedrals, but in exchange we get five(!) temples we can build in each Mesopotamian city. The Temple of An is the base prerequisite for the other four temples shown after it. Each Temple does the usual temple things along with some additional effects. Remember those religious combat promotions we were able to pick when we converted? These temples provide those same promotions for free to newly built units. Enki, Enlil, and Inanna are standalone as is, but Ki also has the additional ability to build further helper buildings if you have Corn, Rice, Wheat, or Potato in your city's workable radius. Said helper buildings each provide +5% food

It's a pretty strong early religion but, as stated in the description, none of its combat-focused abilities apply when Gunpowder units enter the scene, so we probably want to transition to a more modern religion by that point.

You guys will be voting on that one when the time comes, I promise.

Consciousness unlocks another Ancient Way wonder but is otherwise pretty useless. It's just a necessary prerequisite for something else.

Naturally, my holy city starts working on the Temple of An right away. Another not-so-obvious perk of this religion is that because it has no monasteries, we only need this single building to be able to build Missionaries, allowing spreading our religion much earlier than usual. Monasteries, incidentally, can't be built until we reach Meditation, a Classical era tech.

I was hoping to try and wear this city down using my dogs and my Stalker, but that double merged City Garrison Atlatlist is proving to be an impossible nut to crack even with a 92% Surround and Destroy bonus. I'll hang around here for a while and see if I can exploit an opening via bad AI.

Oh right, this thing. Less war weariness and +2 experience to all land units is pretty nice. Kanesh is looking to be the place to stack experience boosters for my units.

Meanwhile, the Animal Trainer (Deer) is finally built by another AI. It's not specified here but the F9 window shows it as being in Brazil.

One of my Stalkers ends up in the heart of Assyria's territory. I can't really disrupt much of anything without opening myself up to attack by dogs and other units, so it's just here on reconnaissance duty to gain some visibility on Assyria's empire.

Erbil is a pretty nice city despite all the tundra all things considered.

With Consciousness one turn away, I finally queue up the nearly finished Cheomseongdae in Hattusas.

Incidentally, Ancient Way of the Shadows provides the trait that gives +1 strength to Criminal units.

Wait a second, is this yet another "Great Wonder" that would be dwarfed by your average miniature golf course attraction today?

We use our free technology to gain Divination, which required Priesthood and Consciousness. It allows access to The Oracle which at its core is the same as it ever was (yes, this means another free technology when we build it. :science: ). But it also enables yet another new Civic.

Adopting Prophets removes a lot of pretty decent minor bonuses that Divine Cult gave us, but on the up side it makes building Missionaries incredibly quick, gives a nice GPP bonus, and gives 2 free Priest specialists in every city for a solid increase in gold and hammers. It also allows us to build the Mystic's Hut, which increases military production by 10%. It's also the reason that I held off on adopting City States because I wanted to save turns on double revolting-- wait.

This is the anarchy with the revolt to City States also. I double checked and it turned out switching to Prophets takes absolutely no anarchy at all! Which means I completely wasted time by not switching to City States at the first opportunity several dozen turns ago :argh: :argh:

Oh well, at least it's only five turns.

Dualism unlocks the next in the Law Enforcement unit line and also allows for the other main reason I chose Mesopotamism as my early religion. That being lots of nice religious wonders :catholic:

Germany settling more cities. Also the last time I'll be showing one of these city built notifications outside of special events.

Sennacherib meanwhile builds his Ancient Way wonder, this one giving movement and visibility to Explorer units.

My Stalker allows vision of Carthage's newest city, settled on a pretty good spot to their Northeast.

Oh well this is annoying. Hope I don't lose anything important here.

Okay, crisis averted. Both can be replaced with ease and have no immediate effect on my economy to worry about.

You may notice the bit of orange Carthaginian culture on the top left corner. Germany is certainly taking a page from China's playbook as far as aggressive settling goes.

This Atlatlist by the way is the same unit that had been guarding that barb city several screenshots ago. Told you the AI was bad!

With most of the more important core buildings done in my newest two cities, I decide to put both of them on Lesser Culture to see if I can claim those two important connecting tiles around Guangzhou I mentioned earlier. Never hurts to try.

And with that, we finally, finally reach the end of the road. Again, I do apologize for procrastinating on these updates like I have, I really wanted to avoid doing that in this LP but I suppose old habits die hard.

Audience Participation: Fourth Leader Trait

Reaching culture level 4 gives us access to a new Positive trait without having to worry about gaining a Negative one, so that's good. As per usual I've narrowed down the choices to three, though this time the decision will have a bit more of an impact since I'm focusing less on traits that give immediate in-game benefits. Instead, the choice you all make will influence how I decide to play this empire in the immediate aftermath! Or it may not if you take the available fourth option. More on that under each individual choice.

As usual, the poll will be up for at least 24 hours and no more than 48, give or take depending on my availability.

Also note that unlike the material in the update proper, these traits are current as of v39, so don't worry about anything here changing in the interim.

A. Imperialistic

- A good amount of extra happiness in our largest cities which would more easily allow a couple more cities past the government-imposed soft caps.
- +50% Great Military People points can be quite valuable considering how powerful generals in particular can get.
- Permanent production increase for Settler-type units.

- Other civs will hate us even more unless they too are Imperialistic
- Aside from the happiness there are no economic benefits whatsoever. Even the Think Tank bonus won't matter until the Information Era.

Empire Direction
- Maintain a large military
- Keep relations hostile with neighbors
- More inclined to expand rapidly and to declare war to "liberate" contested territory :getin:

B. Seafaring

- Provides strong economic bonuses in the form of trade routes, city maintenance, and faster coastal buildings
- Also provides strong military bonuses in the form of free Navigation I (+1 movement basically) and Amphibious promotions
- Yes there actually are additional coastal improvements we can make with our work boats that aren't immediate and this will make improving those quickers.

- 10% higher civil upkeep adds up
- -20% defense in all cities can leave unfortified positions fairly susceptible to attack. Especially since buildings that provide city protection are not the cheapest things in the world.
- Completely worthless for a mostly landlocked empire, greatly affecting how our future settlements go.

Empire Direction
- Heavy focus on building and maintaining a large navy.
- Heavy focus on using foreign merchants (great people or otherwise).
- Be inclined to settle coastal cities in lieu of contesting territory inland.
- More willing to engage in far off coastal invasions to grab territory. France in particular would be a juicy target in this scenario.

C. Spiritual

- Cheap temples, slightly cheaper monasteries and cathedrals
- Strong economic bonuses via greatly improved priests, building production, and GPP modifier.
- More happiness than you can shake a stick at.
- Greatly reduced anarchy time when switching religions, making our future religious conversions less costly.

- The unhappiness from having non-state religions is steep. We'll need to make use of Inquisitors to deal with build up of non-state religions, which comes with its own sets of problems and limitations.
- -1 science from scientists can be pretty nasty if relying on Scientist specialists becomes desirable.

Empire Direction
- Prioritize spreading our religion, not just domestically but internationally as well.
- Try to work as many priest specialists and gain as many Great Prophets as possible
- Get our neighbors to convert. Or else :black101:

D. Remove Megalomaniac :smugdog:

- Anarchy won't be as much of an issue going forward
- Other leaders won't hate us anymore.
- Less maintenance

- Those yield bonuses are really, really nice
- Having to admit that our Empire's glory isn't entirely my doing, which it totally is :smugdog:

Empire Direction
-Nothing in particular! I'll just play the same way I normally do with no special goals except what comes naturally.


NEXT TIME: Who knows! I certainly don't. A lot will depend on you.

With the initial demands of my new job, the voting period in general, and having to acclimate to v39's changes I'm not sure when the next update will be, but I sure hope it's a heck of a lot sooner than the interval between this update and the last one :sweatdrop:

And now to finish Ao no Kiseki before the voting ends.

Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.

B. Seafaring

Nov 8, 2006

So that's the post you've decided to go with, is it?

B! The rest of the world over the oceans awaits and it isn't going to colonize itself! (Unless you have the barbarian cites turn into new civs option on, in which case yes, they will colonize themselves.)

Nov 27, 2007

B. And what is the sky, if not an inky black ocean that we will someday cross?

Mar 14, 2019

C. We have a religion, so let's make the most of it while it's still good.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

As I always forget to point out before these votes, any positive trait we choose can be removed later on in lieu of taking a negative trait when prompted to, so getting rid of traits that are no longer useful is always an option down the line.

Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn

Soiled Meat


Dec 24, 2013


Feb 20, 2013


Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.

Oh good it's back!


Nov 8, 2009

B. Rule the waves, rule the world.

Mar 16, 2009


An an expanding empire is a safe empire

Sep 4, 2011

C. The world will worship who we say to worship, or they will worship nothing! Let us spread the word of our glorious lords, and spread the word of our gods to the foul heathens or reduce their cities to ashes as tribute to the glory of our gods.

So, wait, what happens if you change state religions, do you have to purge the old beliefs as well?

Yami Fenrir
Jan 25, 2015

Is it I that is insane... or the rest of the world?

B. Boats!

Nov 28, 2014

B because exploring is good.

May 2, 2018

Always B Seafaring

Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:

Glad to see it's back in earnest!


May 30, 2011

I have an invasion to go to.

C please!

Archduke Frantz Fanon
Sep 7, 2004

B to the seas!

Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


Aug 16, 2013


May 16, 2012

I would often go there
To the tiny church there

🅱️ alassa! 🅱️ alassa!

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011

Rule the waves, mother 🅱️ucker

Dec 19, 2012

C All, shall worship the gods of Mesopotamia.

Jan 28, 2019

C All must bow before the god king of Mesopotamia, seems fitting for a megalomaniac.

Jul 23, 2013

🅱️old Rules the World!

Dr. Bones
Nov 4, 2005

Private First Class in Blankman's Boot Camp of Goonery

Coercion is best shared among old friends, and other not yet friends.

Oct 23, 2010

Legit Cyberpunk


Jun 17, 2007

Yam Slacker

C Inanna vult!

May 17, 2012

Wait, missile production is my responsibility?


C gives us a concrete goal that doesn't involve crippling the AI, meaning they can be interesting for that much longer.

Feb 21, 2013


Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

Boats Boats Boats!

Jul 6, 2007

C. I'm tempted by boats, but i reckon spreading religion will be a little more of a fun challenge

Mar 17, 2007

Boats! Surely this mod makes a strong navy as important as in real life.

Jul 20, 2017

👁️🔥👁️👁️👁️BE NOT👄AFRAID👁️👁️👁️🔥👁️

B is for boats, it's good enough for me!

Feb 2, 2009

Full of hot raspberry jam blooded passion.

C I'm all for spreading our ill planned religion.


Nov 8, 2006

So that's the post you've decided to go with, is it?

Still in favor of Seafaring (seriously, the free Navigation upgrade is huge early game), but at least Spiritual isn't as broken as it used to be. The idea is it should be more faith less science, but it would remove the anarchy time between faith shifts entirely and all religious buildings kept their bonuses even if it wasn't your current faith. Cue founding every religion and stacking the various cathedral science bonuses in your cities and your 'less science' civ could blitz to the industrial age while everyone else was still puttering around the medieval or worse. Taking that out and putting a multi-religion penalty was a good balance.

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