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Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.

quote:

Imagine if researching Resurrection meant we could actually bring back the dead instead of merely believing it could happen

Then what would you unlock in the Nano Age? I guess you could call it 'Practical reurrection'?

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Geshtal
Nov 8, 2006

So that's the post you've decided to go with, is it?

I really hope this playthrough isn't dead, but assuming it is not, it looks like that last backwards-compatible update is out so anything they develop after this will require a whole new start.

AmishSpecialForces
Jul 1, 2008


I played few weeks of this inspired by the lp. poo poo slows to a crawl the later you go. The ai doesnt grasp combat well either when the real strong stealth units come out.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



Geshtal posted:

I really hope this playthrough isn't dead, but assuming it is not, it looks like that last backwards-compatible update is out so anything they develop after this will require a whole new start.

It's not dead! In fact the latest update has already been typed out and is only in need of some image editing. It's just that I was holding off because 1) I'm lazy, and also sometimes busy 2) I'm still considering how I should structure the updates from Classical Era on since our empire is so big and it takes longer and longer to summarize each important event, 3) I was waiting to see if the devs would release the bugfix update they've been working towards, as I've been following its progress and it has a lot of useful bugfixes and QOL improvements that I'd like, which as you mentioned they released a couple weeks back, and most of all, 4) Because of the previous 3 I kinda forgot about this for a while :sweatdrop:

So yeah, sorry about that! As compensation, the end of next update will have some much needed audience participation :v:

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Curious to see if given recent circumstances this will be coming back any time soon.

If not (or possibly even if so), i'd like to ask your blessing to start a new playthrough either in the thread or elsewhere in the forums. Probably going to be a lot less informative, but they sure do keep changing things so it would be nice to show how that affects the early game, if at all.

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



If anyone is playing Caveman2Cosmos on the SVN branch recent updates have broken save compatibility. 11132 and 11135 break saves in general and 11143 breaks space map saves.

They seem to be focusing on space stuff in recent updates so maybe the map generation scripts will finally be updated to be able to make space maps, though that's probably pretty unlikely at this point.

zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Apr 3, 2020

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



Jossar posted:

Curious to see if given recent circumstances this will be coming back any time soon.

If not (or possibly even if so), i'd like to ask your blessing to start a new playthrough either in the thread or elsewhere in the forums. Probably going to be a lot less informative, but they sure do keep changing things so it would be nice to show how that affects the early game, if at all.

Sorry missed this post. Yeah, feel free to do what you like, it's not like I hold a Monopoly on all this. :v: Might even be better for you since you can dodge the save-breaking SVN updates while I'm pretty much going to have to stick to 40.1 for the time being.

And yeah, you'd think forced enforcement of cooping up at home (except not for me cause haha I work in "Essential" services! :suicide: ) in the face of a worldwide pandemic would be the perfect circumstances with which to do an LP like this but it turns out the only thing that happens is that my already tenuous anxiety issues get pushed into overdrive and I lose all motivation to do anything except plays games/watch stuff/whatever in the hopes of distracting my mind long enough from the world imploding on itself for the next year or so. Organizing long, detailed updates on a chaotic game like C2C is not among my priorities right now sad to say.

With that said, the next update is basically done as I said before and I don't plan on ending the LP or anything like that, I just don't want to put out an update that has voting at the end (yeah, spoilers, but we get another Trait) and that leads right into what will be a much more time-consuming Classical Era transition update to put together that won't even involve playing the game, at least so long as I don't feel I can truly commit to it. Which might been soon, maybe not, it's hard to tell with how things are at the moment.

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Great! So without any further ado I present:

Jossar's Playthrough - Prehistoric 1



Second verse, same as the first. Here's a prebuilt space map so we don't miss out on all the content that the game has to offer. Unlike at the beginning of the LP, these maps now come included with the standard C2C download, albeit in the scenario folder rather than as a function of random map generation. I have no idea what this one is, although i'm fairly certain it's not the same one SJM is using. If playing through yourself, make sure to select Custom Scenario rather than Scenario or else you don't get to choose your game options properly.



Okay, so the game starts with all of the Options off by default so we have to rummage around a bit here. I'm just gonna summarize: the customizable personality stuff, the C2C combat mods, a few minor QOL and customization bits, and the ability for Neanderthals to spawn cities/barbarians to become minor civs. I'm not a particularly great Civ player so i'm not going to play on high levels of difficulty/add in even more of the advanced stuff, but Prince was too easy for me last time so i'll try Monarch against 7 opponents and see how things go. If the expansion issues from previous iterations are solved, then that should be okay even if the Civ AI tends to be a little dumber in C2C. Might add back on some of the advanced options if diplomacy/espionage turns out too boring though.



Advancing sedentary life in Mongolia hundreds of thousands of years ahead of schedule.



Seems like a pretty good start to me. Look at all the food and hammers floating around!

So there isn't really that much changed about the initial setup as I thought, apart from the fact that most of the Toffer UI stuff is now directly integrated into the game. It fits the theme of the last few big patches which were more focused on improving performance. Game definitely feels like it's running better/faster. Anyways, we all know what we're here for, so let's check the tech tree.



Uh... that's definitely different.

The tech tree got an overhaul and in more ways than one. Apart from the addition of background pictures, the picture-based slider now makes it easier to find technologies based on a particular era rather than just sliding until you get where you want. And they reworked the tech order, so now someone might be gunning for the Cave Wonders from the very start, especially since Cave Dwelling provides an early health bonus now. I still think Nomadism is a good tech to go for, just to lead to gathering to get your economy running. Plus i'm not near any caves so the timelocked buildings aren't necessary asap.



11 turns?! For a starting tech? Sheesh, I had to double check to make sure the speed setting was correct. Alright this is gonna be a very boring couple of turns so we'll just fast forward a bit.



Alpha Male unlocks Harems now. Sure, why not. Still going with Alpha Female. Will still probably build Harems though, because while the tooltip says there's disease production, the actual stats show no downside until they're upgraded to Brothels. Unless it's hiding in a future tech somewhere.



Ooh, a goody hut. Let's see what's inside.

And it turns out to be a free Strength 2 warrior. Pretty nice. It'll let me continue on with expansion without needing to split up the units.



Ah, there's an animal. Was wondering why we hadn't seen any of them yet. My Clubman attempts to attack it and fails miserably, proving the old adage that Fighting types have a very difficult time against Flying types.



Nomadism! I might build a Wanderer or two, my starting location's a bit more chokepoint heavy than i'd like so getting people out is gonna take some time.

More goody huts show up - #2 gives a bunch of gold. I'm ambivalent. #3 gives a map, which will definitely speed up scouting. There's animals a plenty at this point so I decide to keep my units intact.

After a few turns, a Wanderer is built and sent off to explore the south.



Darn it, guess somebody managed to beat me to Gathering. Didn't think there'd be a tech disparity this early on. Another Wanderer comes off the line. I'll switch to Stone Thrower just to keep busy.



Is that a free medicine unit this early on? That's really good. She's going home ASAP. Even gonna keep the Brute to protect her in case the wildlife decides to take a punch at her for being a really weak unit.



Gathering finishes researching... and there's no useful resources nearby. So the free gatherer that I got doesn't have that much useful to do... wait, isn't only the first to discover the tech supposed to get a free Gatherer? Whatever. Here's hoping Scavenging reveals something useful, and if nothing else it's a precursor tech to crime mitigation and better housing. And at this point I think we're done for the first chapter. Things are gonna be pretty slow just while I establish the starting perimeter and then should speed up as I don't need to explain as much as before.

Bonus stuff:



World Map



City stats.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Apr 4, 2020

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.



Are those auto generated landmark names? Thatís kinda interesting.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



Dang that research screen is kinda nice, gotta admit. Also manages to show what I had trouble showing throughout all this, that there are a loooooooooooooot of techs in this game.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


When your tech tree has a minimap at the bottom that shows it to be like 80% tech, 0% breathing room and 100% a kilometre long, you have to pay attention.

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Akratic Method posted:

Are those auto generated landmark names? Thatís kinda interesting.

Yeah, it's an option called Personalized Map or something close to that. Thought it might be interesting if i had it as a reference point for narrating where stuff takes place later rather than just "south".

Super Jay Mann posted:

Dang that research screen is kinda nice, gotta admit. Also manages to show what I had trouble showing throughout all this, that there are a loooooooooooooot of techs in this game.

SIGSEGV posted:

When your tech tree has a minimap at the bottom that shows it to be like 80% tech, 0% breathing room and 100% a kilometre long, you have to pay attention.

I think the tech minimap is also responsive too - the red blips represent optional technologies and I saw it light up green when selecting a technology to research in-screen.

In other thoughts, i'm trying to think about pace. Right now I don't really have a lot else to do so the pace is going to be fast, but I don't necessarily want to promise any more than an update a week in the future.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Apr 4, 2020

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Speaking of fast paced for the moment:

Jossar's Playthrough - Prehistoric 2



Gathering unlocks a whole bunch of buildings. Gonna reevaluate the usefulness of building more of these right now after Scavenging because they have health drawbacks until other technologies are unlocked, but right now the clear winner is the Lichen Gatherer which provides health which our city desperately needs to start growing more than it needs food right now. The Stone Thrower completes and is set to go out if he can hunt some weak animals, we've got enough Wanderers on exploration right now, thanks. Nothing much of interest happens for a few turns, apart from an event giving us some bonus science to research Scavenging and discovering that the south is full of resources we can't access yet.



Hey, our first neighbour showed up. Good to see that he's on parity with us in score, although apart from tech boosting there's not much anyone can do to get ahead right now.




A jaguar jumps out of the wilderness and tries to kill one of our Wanderers. Fortunately he survives and gets a bunch of promotions at once. Since these guys are all about observation, I give him Hawk Eyes 3 for detecting invisible animals from farther away. I'm not sure how useful this is, but it's not like these defensive only units are meant to be combat machines anyway, so even a screwup wouldn't be too bad.



Oh, that's where Darius is. Guess we know he at least has Nomadism.

The wildlife's definitely starting to get more aggressive, i'm seeing lots of jaguars out of nowhere at this point. The poor Clubman above got savaged and had to heal up.



Scavenging unlocks... and there's still nothing useful near our capital. I'm starting to think we traded decent generic starting resources for none of the specials, or at least late unlocking resources. It's not that the resources don't exist on the map, they're all just down south where we can't access them for a very long time. I think i'll make another Stone Thrower or two just to combine with our already existing Stone Thrower for a size bonus before building some generic food or hammer buildings. Deception is the next tech on the hit list because even though it's growing slowly, I think Crime might start to become an issue soon.



Oh! A goody hut gave us a free tech!



Hmm... I thought we weren't close enough to the caves? I guess I was wrong, or the game considers cities to always functionally have caves? Anyways, one of these wonders is a way better use of our resources and I switch over production. Here's hoping an AI didn't pick this particular wonder and we get scooped.



The game automatically builds a Cave Dwellings and Karakorum is now finally healthy enough to start growing. It'll take hundreds of turns, but all that means is that we now have a solid foundation for improving food production, which is exactly what building the Wonder will do.



Hah, speak of the devil. Fortunately it was a different wonder so we're safe, but now i'm worrying that the other AIs might have gunned for them after all. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.



Uh oh.



Yeah, he didn't last too long. I might have to move my Clubman up that way if I want to explore.



Stone Thrower kills an Iguana and levels up. Gets a generic Strength combat promotion, nothing else too useful right now.



Found Darius' city. It's at a natural chokepoint in the south blocking all further exploration. Look at that, smug Solomon David looking jerk's even got some fruit too. :argh:



And he's got more money!



Our Wise Woman finally arrives home and is left to heal while the Brute goes back out to explore.



Neanderthal Fight 2: Clubman's Revenge. A second one comes out of the woodwork and attacks again, leading to our Clubman getting a promotion. Maybe we're on the verge of finding a Neanderthal city?



Oh hey Jaguar out of nowhere again. Well, there goes my Wanderer.



And the Clubman. Hey wait a minute, these things weren't supposed to be so dangerous! Clearly the east is a horrible deathtrap. I'll try to send one more expedition out there but might need to think about saving my units for combination before going out that far again.




Deception is researched, though nothing's built yet since there's not a moment to lose on the Cave building. I figure this is as good a time as any to pick up the last of the starting techs. Also, there's the dynamic tech tree slider in action. Already researched techs are light grey, current tech being researched is green.



Wonder complete! This will be a huge boost to our productivity. I start work on a Lookout Post, but this marks as good a place as any to finish off the update.

Bonus stuff:



The Herelatrtii Jungle (The Horrible Eastern Deathtrap)



City Map

Jossar fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Apr 4, 2020

ssmagus
Apr 2, 2010
Assmagus, LPer ass-traordinaire

You got the Caves because it's in the Tile Working cross ( or BFC depending on your civ terms). Anything in that can autobuild something can, as long as it's on a workable tile.

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Huh, I keep forgetting that's a thing before culture develops that far out. Good to know.

Also, I dunno if it used to be the case but as I conveyed here, the ambush predators are really annoying. I've played ahead a bit, and discovered they're Strength 4 so nothing can reasonably stand up to one unless you get super lucky like I apparently did the first few times. I tried doing a non-canon sample test of sending a bunch of combined units against a fresh one just to see what that meant and they all got horribly slaughtered. I might need to go and huddle around my base for a bit, since you can't combine beyond one level up in the Prehistoric, which at best gets you Strength 3 units this early on.

EDIT: Upon further investigation this might be because of some of the combat mods, particularly Size Matters. But then again SJM had a lot of them on and didn't have quite so many man eating jaguars. Will experiment more to see if this makes the game truly miserable or I just need to play a bit more conservatively.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Apr 4, 2020

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



I actually had a lot of problems with Jaguars in my test game before the LP really got rolling. I could be remembering wrong but they barely showed up in the LP proper likely because the terrain wasn't suitable for them. Remember that which animals show up seems to be a function of the terrain, the surrounding resources, and how far north/south you are.

4 strength is steep but a Tracker with enough animal bonus promos should be enough to deal with them, though of course you need to get to Trackers first :v:

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



One of the devs must be from Canada because nearly half of the cave group wonders are based on locations in British Columbia. It gets really weird when I'm playing on an earth map and want to build a cave wonder to match whatever location I'm in and the game is like "no, even if you're in Australia you're still in British Columbia"

Geshtal
Nov 8, 2006

So that's the post you've decided to go with, is it?

There were definitely Brits involved at some point too, as all of the sports buildings are those popular in the Commonwealth with some notable absences of those commonly watched in America.

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Eh, that's enough posts to justify the next one:

Jossar's Playthrough - Prehistoric 3

Alright, so letís see if we can flush this jaguar out.




Success! Turns out that this guy was probably way more dangerous than anticipated. Live and learn, I guess. Our Stone Thrower gets a promotion and seeing the upcoming terrain I give it Woodsman I.



It turns out that we were right at the edge of the continent anyway, and didnít miss much. Oh well, since further explorationís blocked off until we can get past Darius, might as well move closer to home for hunting.




This is excellent news! Our Gatherer will be able to build a Scavenging Camp here to provide Donkeys for Karakorum. It'll take a couple dozen turns, but better than just sitting on it. Also, probably not gonna follow the build order of Gatherers in much detail. Just assume at this point that there are however gatherers there need to be, plus one to build trails.



Language finished researching, providing access to our first Civic. Itís a bit less powerful in this update but at least thatís sort of compensated with a bonus to Commerce and less Sickness? I missed the screenshot, but Darius also adopted it at the same time. Combined with the health bonus from Cave Dwelling, it feels like the devs were trying to make there be less of a ďbestĒ path in the early game, which is pretty commendable. I go for Oral Tradition next, because now that the basic needs are met, I really need to start speeding up Science production. This is then immediately stymied by a research slowdown, which wastes a turn of science production.




Finally, some proper culture generation. A whole lot of nothing happens for the next few turns apart from building more single food and hammer buildings to speed up the economy and my Stone Thrower doing some hunting in the Gesurenh Jungle to the south. Darius beats me to Oral Tradition, which is annoying, but that only puts him back up to par.



Just before we get the next tech, the Stone Thrower finally subdues an animal rather than killing it. Time to become a myth, baby.





Oral Tradition is researched and the civic is adopted, lowering our science penalty. Iím kind of at a loss for what to go for here, but decide that since this is the Science update, we need to go for Persistence Hunting for hunting animals to provide that sweet early science.





I make a couple of brutes and combine them with my preexisting Brute before sending him out hunting again. The Stone Thrower gets another promotion and puts it into Might, a generically useful Strength bonus. A Watcher is created too, as much for home defense as crime prevention.

Nothing really interesting in the city itself, so no bonus maps this time.

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011




That new tech tree is really drat nice.
If not a lot happens, just go, "oh yeah we're skipping 25 turns here are the techs we got" cause the early game seems slooooooooooooooooow

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


At that point i'm skipping over half the game, though there will be a point in a few updates at which I start condensing things a bit more.

(Also either because i'm in a very food poor environment or because of how they altered Prehistoric Age, it's probably going to take even longer to get out of it than it did for the first playthrough, counterbalanced by me running through things really fast with minimal description until we hit new mechanics.)

Jossar fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Apr 5, 2020

General Revil
Sep 29, 2014

"Congratulations! You're all smarter than some of the most brilliant minds on Tendao that worked on this revolutionary project."

I figure it's going to be important to seal up the chokepoint with Darius as soon as you can get another city. Then you'll be bottled up on that end of the continent, safe, but stuck until you can either break through, or decide to take the naval option.

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Currently in manic energy One More Turn mode, which will almost certainly crash sooner rather than later, and made it several hundred turns in the future to the point of a trait vote. Spoilers: We're gonna be in the Prehistoric forrrrrever.

Looking for advice on whether to just dump updates of the current size all at once on the next page, condense things even more than I had originally planned, or just try to chill out and wait for more people to post between updates.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


Post away, I just I'll contribute to the postcount to make space between the updates.

Kangxi
Nov 12, 2016

The hat is mandatory.


Condense as much as you need to.

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



Condense updates

sheep-dodger
Feb 21, 2013



This game clearly has a lot of filler, so condense away.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008



Having seen what new mechanics they had in the prehistoric era Iím really curious how they screwed with the later eras and how space works. It seems like despite there being like 4 space eras thatís like 30 hours in or something?

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Jossar's Playthrough - Prehistoric 4

Current Recapping Speed - Speedy Speed Boy



Trails finishes researching. Itís really more of a precursor to other useful technologies at this point than anything else. With what Iíve learned about Jaguars, I start moving all my units back to my home base in the hopes of hunting peacefully around the central city.



Tool Making. Still home to one of the best buildings in the early game (the Stone Tool Maker), glad to have it on the path to Persistence Hunting.



Persistence Huntingís really good for the improvements, not so much for the units. I tried building Chasers in my tests and they just canít hold their own against the wildlife this early on. It also seems to unlock a bunch of science buildings combined with other preexisting techs, so thatís cool too.



Herbalism Ė weíre good on health for the moment, so itís more just about making sure that our various stuff stays that way. From this point on I think I want to try and beeline Tracking since itís clear that the terrain is generally pretty friendly to big nasty animals.




Hard Hitting Percussion gets me the next upgrade of soldiers and also reveals some Marble near Karakorum.




Research on Soft Hitting Percussion coincides with the expansion of Karakorum's borders, revealing Silver.



So why have I not been talking about the outside world so much? While I had some initial luck hunting with my current soldiers, eventually they all got eaten by Bears or ambush predators, which as it turns out, can spawn in any of the terrain currently available to me. The jaguars eventually start spawning close enough to home such that units are under siege the instant they leave my borders. Surround and Destroy tactics can sort of help, but they're of limited use because the jaguars start eating the edges and move inwards and the now weakened formation has to retreat, which gives the jaguar time to heal up. This problem is going to get solved later, but it's the bane of my existence for a lot of time here. Fun to note is the little peninsula to the Northeast which I try to use to level grind, to limited avail because of the dodginess of Steller Eagles.



Shelter Building is a nice little tech that ties up a lot of the previous ones into more health based buildings that you can actually use. Makes sense, since itís continuing off of the Cave Dwellings line.



Speaking of health, I get this event. My cityís pretty happiness positive right now and itís already the minimum size, so nothing to lose by picking the most extreme option. It seems to work.



Standard early culture tech. Mostly notable because itís going to bring up culture by a decent amount which will be useful for expanding the borders again eventually. Also useful to note that Persia just managed to jump way up from building something. Not quite sure what it is, but now weíre definitively behind on the score chart.



Attracted by our trumpeting noises, a herd of Elephants comes to settle near Karakorum.




Ritualism comes with a singular useful building which increases health and reduces disease, a civic (Folklore), and a Wonder - the Venus of Willendorf, which also requires Carving. Iím tempted to go for the wonder since an extra population would be really powerful at this point, but itís also completely isolated from everything else I want on the tech tree. Ultimately I decide to go for it because even if it fails, all Iíve done is pick up a few technologies that Iíd have to get anyway ahead of schedule.



Cave wonders are built in far away places. This is only really noticeable because they require Skinning, which is approximately where Carving is on the tech tree. My opponents have either specialized a lot more than I have, or theyíre starting to run ahead on tech.



There we go. A few more worker improvements, some miscellaneous buildings, and our wonder. Time to start building.

Techs which were researched in this update but were filler based on our current resources or gave minor bonuses: Weaving, Binding, Basketry, Scraping, Chopping. It should also be noted that several of these techs give worker improvement speed which is slowly reducing the time it takes for our Gatherers to do things.



City Map. Note that this will boost population by 2 in a very short period if the Venus Project works out.

(No, this isn't all of it, I just can't condense things down any further for a single update without losing the important bits.)

Jossar fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Apr 5, 2020

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011




drat, I'm really hoping to see the game's latter techs cause that poo poo sounds cray. Shame it's stuck in prehistory for so long.

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



I really wish the devs would work on their multi-map system so that new maps with space sections can be generated and everyone won't have to rely on a set of preexisting maps. It's strange that this hasn't been a focus considering how much of the tech tree is devoted to stuff that can only work on space maps.

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Jossar's Playthrough - Prehistoric 5



Fire Makingís next - thereís some decent science stuff there and itís a cheap tech. The most important thing about it that distinguishes it from being a generic tech is a Wonder you can build for a Golden Age. It would be nice, but itís too far out of the way from building the Venus.



Karakorum hits size 2 off natural growth, and the worker is immediately placed onto the Marble quarry for all those lovely hammers.



Success! While there are other things we could have done with this time, a lot of them were going to be rather incremental, and are fairly easily caught up at this point in the game. Getting a population is a real pain in the butt this early, especially with so few food tiles, so might as well do it as soon as possible. It also bumps up the score a bit, back up over Darius again. Gonna need some more crime prevention units to handle all the increased chaos before moving back to building all those other improvements.



Sharpening is useful for a variety of reasons. In addition to continuing the slow march to making Worker Improvements not take forever, it also unlocks the next tier of Clubmen by putting spikes on their weapons. I upgrade my current combined Clubmen and finally get a unit that should be able to stand up to the wildlife in a sustained capacity.



The next turn, Karakorum expands its borders again, finding another gold village to recoup some of the lost upgrade costs. I send out the clubs to hunt.



There we go. They're not invincible, but with good terrain on defense and smart tactics on offense, these Spiked Clubmen are competent enough that I can finally get back to the business of expanding Karakorum's production (most importantly science) through hunting. It's at this point that I catch up on the buildings lost from Venus, apart from 1-2 that Iím intentionally ignoring because their costs are too high for their benefits like the Carrion Gatherer.




Tracking, itís not just about the Trackers it provides, though they are useful! It also provides a civic, the ability for Hunting type units to get higher level Hunting promotions, and the ability to build Hunterís Camps, something important because of the Elephant sitting next to Karakorum. It and the preceeding tech are real game changers in a terrain setting with a lot of dangerous animals. Going to spend my next research turns cleaning up the early era techs I donít have yet.




Communalism does a bunch of minor things like allow you to build wealth, but the most important is probably the introduction of a new civic.



Cooking! Itís really as much about the health benefits from proper preservation and bonus products you can get, as much as more food.




Based on General Revilís earlier comment, I take a look at when Tribalism is to see when I can start building settlers. And it dawns on me, that at about 400 turns into the game, I am barely 1/3 of the way through the Prehistoric tech tree. When compared to SJMís game at the same speed, this was about the point that the Hittites were getting the ability to settle new cities, and Iím still more advanced than several of my neighbours. Though at least one shares the big cat continent with me, so maybe the other civilizations didn't have quite as much of a problem with hunting this early on.



Prehistoric Dance unlocks. From this point on i'm slowly churning out Story Tellers to provide dances for bonuses, alongside buildings and more Trackers.



Cultural Identity is mostly about cultural generation, but that's a pretty cool science building!



We finally generate enough points for a Great Person, and due to all the animal hunting that was done with regular soldiers, it spawns a Great General. I make the Great General into a Great Commander and then send him off with an escort to later switch with a Tracker for animal hunting experience. And with that the trait pops and we're finally all caught up.

Techs not shown due to being filler: Ground Stone, Natural Pigments, Poison Crafting, Piercing, Counting, Sewing. Some of these ones actually do have buildings or will be important later, but right now their effects are so minor or I just don't have their resources, so theyíre not worth recapping. I was debating whether to include Counting because it does have a science building, but i'm spamming the page with pictures enough as is.



City Map.

Jossar fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 5, 2020

Gort
Aug 18, 2003


Geshtal posted:

There were definitely Brits involved at some point too, as all of the sports buildings are those popular in the Commonwealth with some notable absences of those commonly watched in America.

American sports don't really exist so it's fine.

They only exist because American teams could never really compete at Cricket or Football, the true sports of civilisation

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Gort posted:

American sports don't really exist so it's fine.

They only exist because American teams could never really compete at Cricket or Football, the true sports of civilisation

Remember that 'soccer' started off as British slang, an abbreviation of 'association football.'

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008



Americans rightly understood that cricket is a dumb sport that makes no sense so they sought to fix it, and succeeded with flying colors. :colbert:

Not gonna touch football though, for as much as I do not like Soccer it is, in actuality, a sport played with your feet.

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013




neat to see the differences!

also this post will help move towards a new page maybe?

Jossar
Apr 2, 2018

Current status: Angry about subs :argh:


Ah forget it, this page has been saturated enough, another 7 pictures won't matter. If things are really causing problems i'll go back and edit some of the pictures to be smaller.

Jossarís Playthrough - 1st Trait Vote

Finally managed to hit the first trait! No, I donít know why it took 1600 culture here instead of 160. So dear viewers, please vote on one of the following:






Okay, that may be a lot. Let me go through and find a few I think are better for this situation. Though if people are interested in any of the other ones from the list, feel free to ask and Iíll give a picture of the bonuses and my ideas on how to take advantage of them.

Seafaring



Given how big the continent seems to be on average, there might not be that much left of it even after getting through Darius. Plus my food yield from land tiles sucks. If so, the future lies in the ocean and other lands across the sea (both in terms of invasion/colonization and naval battles). I start beelining for the coastal tech stuff to try and make the sea as worth it as possible and maybe see if I can get early boats to explore a bit. Although in truth several of the bonuses will only really pay off in the future, but that's something that might be worth considering after how much culture it took to get the first trait.

Of course the problem is the short term Ė the benefits gained might not make that much of a difference here and now. Especially without a large enough population to take advantage of anything that might be in the water without sacrificing a ton of hammers from the already developed land resources. Since weíre locked in here with Darius no matter what, investigating water might give him time to catch up.

I'm willing to accept votes for this one that say "leave your tech path unchanged, but take the trait for the long term bonuses." If so, mention whether if this option fails to get a strict majority of the Seafaring vote if you'd rather keep your vote on Seafaring or switch to something else.

Scientific



The early containment due to dangerous animals and less opportunity to hunt for Myths has put my science in a worse place than Iíd like, and this is the easiest way to remedy that. Also some health and a decent chunk of Great Person Points are pretty nice too. Have to be careful about religious spread, and should probably try to avoid long wars, but those are both decently far away.

The real problem is that with a moderate to low amount of base science, Scientificís bonuses might not be enough to get us to competitive leader status for a while (though it will definitely pay off in the long run). Until then weíre just continuing on as we were but generally more competent, instead of trying to specialize and become really good at a particular strategy.

Prolific



Population growth sucks this early on, partially because they changed how early game pop growth works and partially because Karakorumís in a very hammer heavy area. Under this school of thought, increasing local productivity isnít going to meaningfully affect anything, so instead I try to put a lot of these small cities on the map. Picking this one means means I beeline for Tribalism ASAP and try to overwhelm my opponents by sheer numbers/map presence.

ICS is generally a very powerful strategy in Civilization, but thereís only so much city spam I can do this early on because of inbuilt tech limitations. Also, despite my talk of Darius before, the wildlife is still currently the biggest threat. The other methods are guaranteed to keep rolling along no matter what the rest of my empireís doing, but here something could go disastrously wrong and thatís a lot of turns of production wasted for nothing.

Voting ends 24 hours from the time of this post.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Seafaring.

zetamind2000
Nov 6, 2007

I'm an alien.



Seafaring

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sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.




Boats, boats, boats!

(Seafaring)

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