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Financial and Greedy
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Apr 8, 2020 02:52
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biosterous posted:Financial and Greedy Again, literally impossible. This seems to be happening a bit, so I guess I ought to clarify at least for my main recommendations: Financial and Greedy are opposite traits and cannot be picked together. Civilized and Barbaric are opposite traits and cannot be picked together. Scientific and Traditional are opposite traits and cannot be picked together. Also, in an act of profound disgust with my playing C2C, my main copy of Beyond the Sword blew itself up on Steam. Shouldn't cause any problems after redownloading, but if anything goes weird, you now know why.
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Apr 8, 2020 02:56
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Apr 8, 2020 03:03
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Probably too late to change the negative vote but attacking Darius like that seemed rather Impulsive. Scientific for the positive, because tech tree big
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Apr 8, 2020 10:21
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Financial and Hunter-Gatherer.
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Apr 8, 2020 14:36
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I like the bonuses for wonders in civilized. Seeing as we have an entire continent (or two) for ourselves, I'll go with megalomaniac for the negative trait.
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Apr 8, 2020 14:46
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Is the Wonders bonus that good? Civilized seems straight up garbo next to the other two
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Apr 8, 2020 17:37
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Civilized and Pacifist
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Apr 8, 2020 18:35
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SSNeoman posted:Is the Wonders bonus that good? Civilized seems straight up garbo next to the other two  And I like the other bonuses. It has the same +5% Science as Scientific, the +5% Gold from Financial, and in addition also +5% Food. So in the long run (once the absolute numbers become large enough that the fixed amounts added become irrelevant) then I think civilized is the best. Of course I could be completely wrong about that.
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Apr 8, 2020 23:07
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SSNeoman posted:Is the Wonders bonus that good? Civilized seems straight up garbo next to the other two It's okay. By the time you get to the Renaissance and Industrial eras you should be able to afford to buy wonders straight out if you're even slightly worried about the AI beating you to any. The real perks of the Civilized trait is the boost to food, science, and great people. All of which are done better individually by other specific traits, but with greater trade offs. Civilized gives you a decent bump in all three with only a fair penalty to waging war (with the Civilized "promotion" to every unit hindering warmongering more than the training penalties). Personally, I would lean towards Industrious to balance out the production penalty for the city distance, but of the three choices offered, I guess Scientific is best. Anarchy penalties should be meaningless once you get powerful enough to basically fire off a Golden Age at will, and I recommend avoiding unit experience hits like the plague. As for the negative trait, I'm trying to go off memory here, but I think it is either Timid or Meek which actually give a relationship boost to other leaders among its penalties. Go for that one.
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Apr 8, 2020 23:36
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Keep in mind that since Jossar is playing with Complex Traits all of the traits you see have powered up versions of themselves you can acquire later on. So something like Civilized could end up far more powerful down the line. Or at least that's how I think it works, I never had the opportunity to test it for myself.
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Apr 8, 2020 23:53
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I'm gonna have to vanish earlier than I thought, so I guess i'll keep the vote open until I get back in a few hours. Currently it looks like Civilized and Covetous are winning, with the vote counts looking something like this:quote:Scientific IIII I'm pretty hungry and tired right now though, so my numbers might be off. I'm pretty sure the current leaders are correct and i'll double check when I get back.
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Apr 9, 2020 00:18
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Super Jay Mann posted:Keep in mind that since Jossar is playing with Complex Traits all of the traits you see have powered up versions of themselves you can acquire later on. So something like Civilized could end up far more powerful down the line. I don't believe complex traits change over time. But there absolutely are more of them, with more effects, and can be chosen multiple times for increased effects, hence why all of them have 1 next to their name right now.
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Apr 9, 2020 00:23
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Alright, closed. Civilized and Covetous it is. Say, what does Covetous look like statwise anyway? 
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Apr 9, 2020 02:41
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Jossar posted:Alright, closed. Civilized and Covetous it is. Say, what does Covetous look like statwise anyway? Wow that seems uh, incredibly bad
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Apr 9, 2020 03:21
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I regret nothing. Also just to be clear I had no idea what Covetous did, I haven't even looked at the Complex Traits cause they are irrelevant to my LP and there are so many of them anyway 
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Apr 9, 2020 03:42
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Honestly, I expected something quite unlike that, and more, you know, geared towards underhandedly grabbing other's stuff and making them resent you for it. I'm gonna stick to stupid FFH modmods.
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Apr 9, 2020 03:43
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SIGSEGV posted:Honestly, I expected something quite unlike that, and more, you know, geared towards underhandedly grabbing other's stuff and making them resent you for it. Technically there is, that's what the -10% War Unhappiness is for! :V Okay, in reality if you were doing this for yourself you'd pick a less stupid drawback. But once I manage to fully overcome these financial problems and go into full conquer the world production mode it's game over for even the more competent AI. So in a sense it's nice to have something of a weight to slow things down. Jossar fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 03:53
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Good to know. Now the real question I have it about the ten loving thousand negative traits available, and the positive ones, too. Did they just take all the combinations of all possible modifiers at a set strength and tried to find a name for each or something?
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Apr 9, 2020 04:13
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Jossar posted:Alright, closed. Civilized and Covetous it is. Say, what does Covetous look like statwise anyway? Jossar posted:Jossar's Playthrough - 2nd Trait Vote  Whats the other 5% bonus we get from civilized? The red and black one.
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Apr 9, 2020 10:28
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Red and black thing is espionage points, for all those neighbours nearby to steal money/techs from Unless C2C did something with spies that significantly diverges from vanilla
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Apr 9, 2020 11:30
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I've never seen a spying system that didn't make me hate it at first sight in a 4X game, so this is good news.
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Apr 9, 2020 11:33
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Is that about par for the course for negative traits or is Covetous particularly awful for some reason?
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Apr 9, 2020 13:52
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The entire notion (just like the entire basis of this mod, really) of traits sounds like someone got an idea and refused to pare it down or, gasp, even ask how it would play but proceeded to go whole hog on its implementation nonetheless.
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Apr 9, 2020 13:58
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A lot of it's in the details. For instance, here's Barbaric, the opposite of Civilized: Some of the supplemental bonuses are a bit better than Covetous and the penalty to espionage is better than a penalty to culture. But once you start finding neighbours they hate you more, which is kind of a pain. I'm sure there's an optimal one somewhere in the pile which only gives penalties to something useless, but it's a lot of sorting through the garbage pile. Jossar fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 14:38
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Jossar's Playthrough - Prehistoric 8 The first order of business is founding a replacement capital. Before anything else, I should probably discuss this awful, awful production timer. Even by C2C standards, 400 turns is a lot of turns.  Fortunately there is a way to solve this. Meet the Early Merchant, the earliest form of Caravan for hammers, aka they convert production from big cities to be used in your smaller ones. 5 can be on the map at a time, and they don’t affect a city’s food production despite being a unit. Karakorum will be feeding these down to Tenduk, and they’ll greatly reduce the time it takes to build the Palace and some of the essential starting buildings. Additionally, I will be taking this opportunity to start trying to build a trail network across the continent and see about making progress on taming the wilderness for good.  This is aided by researching Hunting. A Hunter or two combined with my Master Hunter should be all that’s necessary to keep things on lockdown, though accidents might still happen from time to time due to unfortunate spawn timers.  The entirety of the Northern continent is mapped out. Colonizing it does seem interesting, but I really want to get our home continent under control first and that’s going to take at least the rest of the Prehistoric at this point.  There we go! That’s a significant amount of progress made on that palace. Now I can get to talking about Tenduk as a city. It’s placed in the middle of the jungle on top of a Rubber resource. Not the greatest place to take advantage of our Seafaring bonuses, but it’s centrally located, its bonuses from rubber and nearby fruit are very good, and its cultural borders will after a very long time develop to provide access to Copper and Tin, very important materials for the next Age.  Huh, I guess all those science boosts from Darius moved us to the top of the list.   Chiefdom gives us access to a lot of things which reduce maintenance costs like the civic and Chieftain’s Huts. It won’t solve all of our problems but it’s definitely helpful.    Fishing gives us access to Prehistoric Workboats and a load of miscellaneous net buildings which produce a small amount of gold and hammers. Getting access to fish resources gives a small health benefit, but is mainly useful for catapulting the squares in cities to really high food levels.  I struggled with whether or not to research this, but if I have to build boats before Sailing I’d rather they be as good as possible. At this point I’m going to research 2 more slightly out of the way techs and everything else is just going to be a straight shot up to Sedentary Lifestyle. We’re 95% done here and the rest of the mandatory Prehistoric techs can be researched later.   Case in point. Even if we’re tech leader, people aren’t so far behind as to be ignored entirely. This also means that the Palace is done. Additional Early Merchants will be sent to Tenduk until it gets the Stone Tool Maker online, and that generally marks the point at which a city can become self-sufficient or at least not disastrously behind.   This also marks the point at which cash flow finally starts to be a thing again. If we check the numbers it’s a bit confusing at first – actual city maintenance hasn’t gone down at all. But what it actually means is that the city maintenance is now evenly divided between Karakorum and Persepolis. Meanwhile, Tenduk can start building an economy for free. A more complicated function of the way this works is that combined with an increased number of economic buildings gained from researching tech, so long as cities aren’t built too far away from Tenduk at this point, they’ll eventually pay for themselves or be covered by the rising economic growth of the earlier cities. With that in mind, I send off a Tribe to settle another city. This experienced (but outdated) raft is somehow big enough to hold the Tribe.  Khaidu is settled on the western part of the center of the continent. There is no truly unique function about the location where it is situated but in the aggregate it’s a good spot: decent if generic resources, well situated to take advantage of the road network once that’s finished being built, will eventually project cultural influence to cover the blind spots that Tenduk and Karakorum won’t cover.  A new Great Hunter is produced. This one I am gonna leave for a future Golden Age. As a Sabretooth spawn that devours some of the roadbuilding crew and then is promptly slaughtered by a Hunter reminds me, the problem isn’t that I don’t have the tools to deal with the wildlife at this point in my actual units, it’s just that my economy’s currently stretched thin enough that I can’t be everywhere at once. The roadbuilding units are promptly replaced but this is going to slow things down a bit on the Karakorum/Khaidu/Tenduk side.  A number of domestication techs are researched at this point. Dogs are probably not going to get as much focus in this Let’s Play for reasons that will be explained in a little bit, so the most useful one of these is Poultry Domestication, ensuring plentiful feathers as a luxury resource and eggs for health/food/and the building of Omega Child Crews in new cities.  Tenduk and Persepolis are connected and Karakorum and Khaidu are soon to follow. The immediate bonuses from this are less than impressive, but quality of life goes up everywhere generally from being able to channel resources from throughout the civilization.  There we go. This tech isn’t really necessary until a long while later but with: -2 of my cities having access to elephants -Possibly more cities in the future having access to elephants. - A National Wonder that gives a city the ability to build elephant based units even though they aren’t accessible from its immediate surroundings. Mongolia has a lot of elephants to work with. Expect to see Elephant Riders some time next update and Elephant Workers eventually.  The borders of Karakorum expand outwards and reveal a new civilization just across the sea. Alright, this time things will be different! This time we’re going to engage in cooperation and trade, for the development of both our civilizations in peace and harmony…  ...drat it all. (Techs not shown: Stone Building, Naturopathy, Slash and Burn, Arithmetic, Ceremonial Burial, Animal Husbandry, Canine Domestication.)
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Apr 9, 2020 17:27
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If you want a good neg trait for being stuck on a solo island, negligent or naive are my choices. Oh, Sniped by update. and yeah, That. People have tried to get rid of those, but since like all these wack mods in strategy games, The head devs are on that side of politics. ssmagus fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Apr 9, 2020 |
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Apr 9, 2020 17:28
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His head would, in fact, look good on the end of a pole.
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Apr 9, 2020 17:34
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Do not pick "There will be peace in our time." We know how that turned out.
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Apr 9, 2020 17:41
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If this is like any of my other games you are basically in 1st place on the scoreboard for the resst of the game now.
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Apr 9, 2020 17:42
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There's literally nothing I can do until late Ancient, because the two continents are separated by Sea tiles. Even if that wasn't the case, playing ahead eventually gets me Espionage vision that reveals that his cities are armed to the teeth with multiple Atlatls, some of which are combined. I can exist in a nominal state of war with him, but it's just me glaring daggers and building up Elephant Riders for the better part of an Age.
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Apr 9, 2020 17:44
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Jossar posted:I can exist in a nominal state of war with him, but it's just me glaring daggers and building up Elephant Riders for the better part of an Age. Sounds good to me, no peace with the fash.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:21
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The great Khan understood the benefits of multiculturalism and diversity in his empire. Teach the Rhinelander the same.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:28
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Well, that is certainly not a person I expected to see.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:39
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OOrochi posted:Well, that is certainly not a person I expected to see. Unexpected yet somehow completely unsurprised. Anyway +1 vote to bash the fash.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:42
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Jossar posted:There's literally nothing I can do until late Ancient, because the two continents are separated by Sea tiles. Even if that wasn't the case, playing ahead eventually gets me Espionage vision that reveals that his cities are armed to the teeth with multiple Atlatls, some of which are combined. I can exist in a nominal state of war with him, but it's just me glaring daggers and building up Elephant Riders for the better part of an Age. You really only need one elephant rider stack. An Elephant rider max sized group with a warlord hero put in with the supremacy/combat ability promtions and the combat bonus against smaller units will basically destroy any army or garrison single handed without needing flanking bonuses, which is great for those choke point cities. If i remember correctly it basically has 75 combat strength But yes it will be a bit.
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Apr 9, 2020 18:49
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Admittedly we shouldn't go to war right now, that'll just leave us with penalties to growth. gently caress we picked a bad negative trait lol, like it hits all of the major things we need
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Apr 9, 2020 19:31
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OOrochi posted:Well, that is certainly not a person I expected to see. How naive, he was foreordained to appear the moment we saw that Alpha / Beta / Omega poo poo.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:31
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SSNeoman posted:Admittedly we shouldn't go to war right now, that'll just leave us with penalties to growth. We don't have to go to war now. We should solidify our own position. But gently caress if we don't get our Bagration on when the time is right.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:39
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 22:19 |
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Let's kill Hitler.
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Apr 9, 2020 19:39
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