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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



NewMars posted:

Is it just me, or does this mod seem to have a lot of really weird :biotruths: stuff in general going on?

:females:


This looks like it will be a trainwreck and a half. Looking forward to it.

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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



A. Creative sounds good to me.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Super Jay Mann posted:

I suppose that since this is Civilization and the whole theme of the game is empire-building, perhaps the research and acquisition of techs is not necessarily our people learning how to do something, but rather our people developing organizing principles to make those specific somethings productive for society. Like, researching Theft doesn't literally mean "our people just learned how to steal" because they always knew that taking what didn't belong to them was a thing, but it does mean that our people are learning ways of organizing themselves into like-minded groups dedicated to stealing from others and additionally that our "government", or rather the prehistoric equivalent of that concept, knows how to utilize these "bandit gangs" to benefit themselves at the expense of those "other" tribes. This kind of makes sense considering what the Theft technology actually unlocks. Cooking similarly doesn't mean "how do we cook?" it means groups are springing up in our tribe that are specializing in taking animals and preparing food with them and making it easier for their fellow tribesmen to eat comfortably. Or perhaps I'm reaching with all this?

Reminds me of Beyond Earth, where a lot of early techs are labeled things like Chemistry, Physics, Computers, and Engineering, which provoked some backlash from players who thought it was dumb that you had to research these things. But if you checked the civlopedia, the game clarified that these techs were about adapting our existing knowledge to the particulars of this planet, reconstructing old databases into something usable for the colony, building a proper infrastructure to support and use this technology on a large scale, things like that.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Falcorum posted:

That sounds too much like Alpha Centauri names and everyone knows that Beyond Earth was them going "you want a sequel to AC? FINE, here you loving go". :v:

Eh, I maintain that Firaxis did not want Beyond Earth to be seen as AC2. They just knew that's what people would call it and expect it to be even though it was never going to be that.

AC is a very, very 90s game. Just look at the factions, they all make sense for an early to mid 90s idea of ideologies and ways of life on the rise.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Probably sex slave stuff, I'd imagine. I've had a bad feeling every since that "Alpha Male" "Alpha Female" business.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Creative, Idealistic

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Radio Free Kobold posted:

This is one of the big points of a book called "Guns, Germs, & Steel", which is basically devoted to analyzing this question. Good read if you're the sort to enjoy that kind of thing.

However, that book isn't particularly well regarded in serious academic circles. The book's theories are certainly possible, but the author is trying to deal with a subject matter where there simply isn't much evidence and simple luck and happenstance have huge impacts on history.

Not everything has a grand explanation for why things happened the way they did, and that's one of the main criticisms I've heard from serious historians about the book: the author goes way too far in trying to extrapolate grand theories and explanations from a very small amount of data even if his leaps of logic are fairly plausible.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Pvt.Scott posted:

Are cenotes anything like stepwells?

No. Cenotes are naturally occurring phenomena, naturally occurring sinkholes that filled with water from rain.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Let loose the cats of war!

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



President Ark posted:

there was a period between expansion in either civ 5 or 6 (can't remember offhand, i think 6?) where you could get The Internet without computers

(my mental image was of a discworld-style mass semaphore system; yes, semaphore is real, but not quite at the scale i mean)

5, and it's still possible.

You can also get Rocketry, and thus the Apollo Program, without Combustion.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



kw0134 posted:

Not the first time, the very first Civ required that most martial of techs, labor unions, to build mechanized infantry. No, not as a prerequisite, as the direct tech needed to enable it.

Modern tech is much more web-like than a branching tree which is what gets designers into trouble.

Which is why I think Beyond Earth had the best tech system of any Civilization: because it is a web rather than a tree.

And the core unit unlocks even make sense:

The basic melee infantry and basic melee ships are available right off the bat.

Settlers and trade routes are unlocked by Pioneering, representing your colony officially starting to move into the unknown and settle this world.

Ranged infantry are unlocked by Physics (note: Physics in BE is code for 'reassembling all the knowledge of physics you brought with you from Earth and integrating it into your colony's scientific and technological infrastructure)

Armored vehicles are unlocked by Engineering (same thing as Physics, it's not that you're discovering anything new, but you're unpacking all the know-how you brought with you and integrating it into your colony with adjustments for local conditions)

Artillery, submarines, and ranged warships are unlocked by Computing (more of the same).

Aircraft are unlocked by Robotics (more of the same, air units in BE are explicitly unmanned drones).

Carriers are unlocked by Fabrication (noticing a pattern with the early techs? This one at least also represents adapting advanced manufacturing methods from Earth to local conditions and resources).

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Super Jay Mann posted:

I'm not entirely sure what this quote is supposed to mean in relation to Taxonomy other than sounding smart. But then I'm no expert on Taxonomy so maybe there's context I'm missing.

Taxonomy as an academic field is infamous for being full of anal-retentive sperglords who are constantly bitching and fighting over how exactly species should be classified, what's different enough to warrant splitting into different families/groups/geni versus lumping them together, etc.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



B. Rule the waves, rule the world.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Regallion posted:

Am i missing something or did we just have an entire narrative BE LP start and finish between the updates of this one?

I'm not done yet (granted I will be by this time next week). :v:

Super's also going way more into depth about this mod than I have about BE, and clearly knows a lot more about the nuts and bolts of Civ than I do. This is a really good LP and I'm not trying to compete with it.

Cythereal fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Sep 6, 2019

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Ibblebibble posted:

Odds on Segregation being a technology to research?

Or Feminism, which hits you with a penalty to science, gold, industry, or all of the above.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Gort posted:

American sports don't really exist so it's fine.

They only exist because American teams could never really compete at Cricket or Football, the true sports of civilisation

Remember that 'soccer' started off as British slang, an abbreviation of 'association football.'

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Seafaring.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Scientific and Minimalist.

No clue what Minimalist does, but what the hey.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Kill Hitler.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Focus on Science.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



I voted for Science and Minimalist before, and I will again.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Complications posted:

Ah yes, there's what we were waiting for. This had seemed like it was being all too decent.

Excuse you and the genocidal Nazi you're apologizing for.

The gently caress you say.

Yeah, yeah, not sure what else could've been expected.

Also fits with the clockpunk poo poo, completely ignoring the 'punk' to fetishize an era of genocidal colonialism and exploitation.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



kw0134 posted:

Civ V already had "the meek shall inherit the Earth -- but not its mineral rights" as the greatest spoken quote in a Civ game, it was all downhill from there.

beep... beep... beep...

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



VictualSquid posted:

Once more the american post-apocalypse proofs itself unable to imagine the existence of bicycles.

But bicycles are boring!

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



They also need to consider the 'there's no such thing as an anti-war movie' thing. If it's in your game and you're not screaming its denunciation at the top of your lungs, people are going to assume you're in favor of it.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



A tech's description just being a tv tropes link does not surprise me in the least about this mod. The tech tree smacks of that kind of obsessive need to digitize and categorize everything even slightly ambiguous or abstract.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



kw0134 posted:

Terraforming a gas giant doesn't even make sense as a concept!

hobbesmaster posted:

You're controlling the weather of the upper atmosphere to allow for floating cities.

Or pulling an Endless Space and somehow converting a gas giant into a telluric planet.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



At least Beyond Earth has the excuse that gold is valuable in the far future for its conductive properties in electronics.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Arrhythmia posted:

Both Copper and Silver are more conductive

And copper is another bonus resource in Beyond Earth. :v: Silica rounds out the mineral bonus resources rather than silver, though.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



kw0134 posted:

The civilization transcends time, bridges the galaxies with the ease of blinking our synthetic eyelids, has conquered death, brought our consciousness to a place that would have been literally inconceivable a short century ago, aims to defeat the ultimate fate of the universe still in entropy's grasp...but is someone going to do something about that drat mallard!?

And somehow, we haven't won a tech victory yet.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



quote:

Some of them correctly assumed that obsoleting Pride Parade means LGBT being fully accepted, though this should be at Utopia Destiny or even earlier as transhumanism is so much more progressive, that someone LBGT may be treated as conservative Luddite when transhumanism is widespread.

Eat poo poo. Being LGBT is not a progressive ideology that can be obsoleted, it's a fundamental part of who someone is.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



ssmagus posted:

Obsloteing pride parade doesn't mean obsoleteing LGBT itself.
This means LGBT doesn't need pride parades anymore - they become fully accepted and being treated equally.
Maybe Pride Parade should be changed to encompass everything minority related?

Dear devs: I understand you have no experience being a minority of any kind, but Pride parades, Black Heritage Month, and the like are not about acceptance and equal treatment per se. They're about celebrating a shared identity and common experiences.


Now certainly there's an argument to be made that in the era of transhumanism, heterosexuality should be equally obsolete because the entire concept of gender has become irrelevant, a quaint attribute of primitive biologicals, but frankly, these writers' chops aren't up to the task of imagining a truly transhuman society.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Why would trash even be a concept at this point of existence? Like, at all?

Also, ell oh loving ell at Roko's Basilisk being a wonder. Roko's Basilisk is an Old Testament god for nerds who think they're too smart for religion.

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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



Honestly, I've been just skimming the updates for a while now. The scope of what the mod wants to do and the things it's trying to describe are so vast that to me, it became meaningless. Just increasing levels of arbitrary numbers going up as you research whatever the gently caress which unlocks who gives a gently caress which makes more numbers go up (or down) and none of it seems worth interacting with beyond pressing on for an arbitrary tech victory.

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