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galagazombie
Oct 31, 2011


Sinnoh most definitely does NOT need a remake. Not because it's bad (Gen IV and V are the best actually) but because theres nothing to be gained. The previous 3 remakes were all of Gens that had had important gameplay changes since the originals. DPPt however was the last time the core gameplay was changed in any meaningful capacity or any noticeable amount of older Pokemon got new evolutions. Plus the hardware on the DS was advanced enough Gen IV didn't have to make sacrifices like the older games on the pitiful Gameboy hardware did. All you would be getting is a 3D graphics reskin, and the current 3D animation they use is terrible. The immobile ten 4 sprites have more dynamism than the mannequin 3D models.

Vinylshadow posted:

Correction: the sprites made with animation in mind are great

A lot of sprites from the first four gens don't look nearly as nice and tend to stretch and break


Gen 6+ has a similar issue. The Pokemon actually designed for 3D look good in 3D. But the Gen 1-5 mons came out looking wrong.

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Silegna
Aug 20, 2013

Hey, heads up. I'm about to unleash my rage.



galagazombie posted:

Sinnoh most definitely does NOT need a remake. Not because it's bad (Gen IV and V are the best actually) but because theres nothing to be gained. The previous 3 remakes were all of Gens that had had important gameplay changes since the originals. DPPt however was the last time the core gameplay was changed in any meaningful capacity or any noticeable amount of older Pokemon got new evolutions. Plus the hardware on the DS was advanced enough Gen IV didn't have to make sacrifices like the older games on the pitiful Gameboy hardware did. All you would be getting is a 3D graphics reskin, and the current 3D animation they use is terrible. The immobile ten 4 sprites have more dynamism than the mannequin 3D models.

Gen 6+ has a similar issue. The Pokemon actually designed for 3D look good in 3D. But the Gen 1-5 mons came out looking wrong.

Then there's Sky Battles, ruining so many pokemon. Like Xatu.

Barudak
May 7, 2007



Diamond and Pearl are my least favorite pokemon games because fire is my favorite type. Don't care a single other thing that gen did.

Abundant Atrophy
Nov 3, 2012


Sinnoh made with the winding scale of Crown Tundra would be neat to play, but they could also make a new region to explore next year and I'd be happy.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Barudak posted:

Diamond and Pearl are my least favorite pokemon games because fire is my favorite type. Don't care a single other thing that gen did.

What, don't you like the great amount of choices you have? You have Infernape, Rapidash... all you'd need for a region with a Fire-type Elite Four member!

And the remakes will be even better because now Rapidash can stop being a Fire type. One Fire type, just as Sinnoh should've always been.

Flopsy
Mar 4, 2013



Blaze Dragon posted:

What, don't you like the great amount of choices you have? You have Infernape, Rapidash... all you'd need for a region with a Fire-type Elite Four member!

And the remakes will be even better because now Rapidash can stop being a Fire type. One Fire type, just as Sinnoh should've always been.


Funnily enough I chose chimchar the first time around, so I was initially baffled about all the complaints about how hard it was with the lack of fire types.

Waterfall of Salt
May 14, 2013

Ow, my eye


Blaze Dragon posted:

What, don't you like the great amount of choices you have? You have Infernape, Rapidash... all you'd need for a region with a Fire-type Elite Four member!

To be fair, that's the same amount of choices as Glacia in gen 3 and one more than Agatha and Lance in gen 1.
Even then the Elite Four members might not use all Pokémon of that type, even if there's enough for 5 different ones, like Karen and RBGY Bruno who both use 3/5 of their respective type despite skipping choices like Poliwrath or Sneasel.

What I'm saying is that the fire type issue has always been overstated

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Silegna posted:

Said Safari Zone was so arcane, BULBAPEDIA GAVE UP ON TRYING TO CATALOGUE IT.

What's so arcane about the HGSS Safari Zone exactly?

Barudak
May 7, 2007



I refer you to: Rapidash? More like Rapitrash

Vandar
Sep 13, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?







Waterfall of Salt posted:

What I'm saying is that the fire type issue has always been overstated



It sucks if you like, love Fire types and you absolutely HAVE to have one on your team, but it's always been a relatively minor issue that people have blown up into something they think is way bigger than it is.


Neddy Seagoon posted:

What's so arcane about the HGSS Safari Zone exactly?

It takes literal months to unlock everything for it, and that's IF you know exactly what you're doing.

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



Neddy Seagoon posted:

What's so arcane about the HGSS Safari Zone exactly?

The "fun" aspect of HGSS's safari zone is the fact that you can place objects like rocks, bushes and bodies of water in 6 sections. I think there were like 9 different biomes you could have like savannah, mountain, desert and others. Placing objects has an influence of what kind of Pokemon you can find in a biome. Like say, placing bushes in a desert biome attracts Sunkern. What the game does not tell you is that placing objects and leaving them there for several days "levels up" the object. Leaving that bush in the desert for a week ends up attracting Tangela and a month will end up attracting Riolu (who cannot be found in HGSS in any other way).

This method gets very deep and very involved. The longest and most absurd Pokemon to find in Johto's Safari Zone is Gible, which involves placing some rocks in a Sea Cove biome and waiting 200 days for those rocks to get at a high enough level to get a chance to attract Gible.

And then there's still the same Safari Zone bullshit like hucking balls at it and praying that it doesn't run away. You can find Beldum in the Johto's Safari Zone. Getting a Safari Ball Beldum from there is the realest poo poo.

Zuzie fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Feb 22, 2021

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Zuzie posted:

The "fun" aspect of HGSS's safari zone is the fact that you can place objects like rocks, bushes and bodies of water in 6 sections. I think there were like 9 different biomes you could have like savannah, mountain, desert and others. Placing objects has an influence of what kind of Pokemon you can find in a biome. Like say, placing bushes in a desert biome attracts Sunkern. What the game does not tell you is that placing objects and leaving them there for several days "levels up" the object. Leaving that bush in the desert for a week ends up attracting Tangela and a month will end up attracting Riolu (who cannot be found in HGSS in any other way).

This method gets very deep and very involved. The longest and most absurd Pokemon to find in Johto's Safari Zone is Gible, which involves placing some rocks in a Sea Cove biome and waiting 200 days for those rocks to get at a high enough level to get a chance to attract Gible.

So is this literal days or can you speed up the process by messing with the system clock on your DS?

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


Zuzie posted:

The "fun" aspect of HGSS's safari zone is the fact that you can place objects like rocks, bushes and bodies of water in 6 sections. I think there were like 9 different biomes you could have like savannah, mountain, desert and others. Placing objects has an influence of what kind of Pokemon you can find in a biome. Like say, placing bushes in a desert biome attracts Sunkern. What the game does not tell you is that placing objects and leaving them there for several days "levels up" the object. Leaving that bush in the desert for a week ends up attracting Tangela and a month will end up attracting Riolu (who cannot be found in HGSS in any other way).

This method gets very deep and very involved. The longest and most absurd Pokemon to find in Johto's Safari Zone is Gible, which involves placing some rocks in a Sea Cove biome and waiting 200 days for those rocks to get at a high enough level to get a chance to attract Gible.

loving hell!

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



Larryb posted:

So is this literal days or can you speed up the process by messing with the system clock on your DS?

What does your heart tell you?

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Zuzie posted:

What does your heart tell you?

So the former then, that sounds awful and Iím glad I never bothered with it

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



Oh right, it gets even more involved then just placing rocks and such. Each section only has enough room for a certain number of objects that can be placed, so you can't place 24 rocks and expect Gible to show up earlier. This is why the objects level up to higher numbers. Also some Pokemon can only be found if you place various combinations of objects. I think Sealeo can be found in a mountain biome but only if you have enough bodies of water and rocks. This from what I could remember because most people who document this sort of poo poo gave up ages ago.

Vandar
Sep 13, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?







When Bulbapedia is giving up on something, you know it's loving bad.

Shwoo
Jul 21, 2011



Zuzie posted:

The "fun" aspect of HGSS's safari zone is the fact that you can place objects like rocks, bushes and bodies of water in 6 sections. I think there were like 9 different biomes you could have like savannah, mountain, desert and others. Placing objects has an influence of what kind of Pokemon you can find in a biome. Like say, placing bushes in a desert biome attracts Sunkern. What the game does not tell you is that placing objects and leaving them there for several days "levels up" the object. Leaving that bush in the desert for a week ends up attracting Tangela and a month will end up attracting Riolu (who cannot be found in HGSS in any other way).

This method gets very deep and very involved. The longest and most absurd Pokemon to find in Johto's Safari Zone is Gible, which involves placing some rocks in a Sea Cove biome and waiting 200 days for those rocks to get at a high enough level to get a chance to attract Gible.

And then there's still the same Safari Zone bullshit like hucking balls at it and praying that it doesn't run away. You can find Beldum in the Johto's Safari Zone. Getting a Safari Ball Beldum from there is the realest poo poo.
It's 120 days for Gible, but also according to Bulbapedia, you have to actually play on 120 different days, not just come back to it after a few months. You don't have to leave the blocks in the area for that long, as far as I can tell, but the area does have to be in an active slot for that time. After that, the blocks will always have their higher value, even if you swap the area.

Also, Gible's requirements are pretty specific. After waiting 120 days with the Rocky Beach active, you have to put down exactly 13 plains-themed blocks, and 17 peak-themed blocks. You need 52 points of plains blocks and 68 points of peak blocks for it to appear, peak blocks don't quadruple in value until 120 days have passed, and you can only place 30 blocks at a time, so no other combination will work.

I only know this because I was trying to get everything in HeartGold around the end of last year, and I read the Bulbapedia page very carefully. I did most things, but I still wouldn't be able to get Gible for another month even if I was still playing every day, which I'm not. The Johto Safari Zone is bad.

Homora Gaykemi
Apr 30, 2020

"We live together in her Skull Cave. We cook each other dinner all the time. She gifted me this beautiful horse. Do you think I should ask her out?"*

*Ancient lesbo saying


I definitely played Heart Gold at the time and was all in on stuff like the Poke Walker but don't remember that Safari Zone poo poo at all

Flopsy posted:

Sister I've been playing this series for 24 years straight. Get in the senior van with me and I'll fire us up some margaritas and 90's dance music.

I guess D/P in particular just hit kind of hard since their original release was the first Pokemon game that came out when I was an adult

Cue up that La Bouche

Homora Gaykemi fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Feb 22, 2021

Hammerite
Mar 9, 2007

And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.


Jade Ear Joe

Game Freak's UK-theming of Galar is phony, they didn't rename the "bug" type to "insect"

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!



The idea of the hgss safari sounds neat but the execution is downright eldritch

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


My only experience with HGSS's Safari Zone was farming Tauros outside the gates because they give a huge amount of exp that made grinding way less tedious

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Zuzie posted:

Oh right, it gets even more involved then just placing rocks and such. Each section only has enough room for a certain number of objects that can be placed, so you can't place 24 rocks and expect Gible to show up earlier. This is why the objects level up to higher numbers. Also some Pokemon can only be found if you place various combinations of objects. I think Sealeo can be found in a mountain biome but only if you have enough bodies of water and rocks. This from what I could remember because most people who document this sort of poo poo gave up ages ago.

I take that back, this sounds like the worst mechanic ever and Iím REALLY glad I never bothered with it.

Hammerite
Mar 9, 2007

And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.


Jade Ear Joe

It doesn't sound as bad as the White Forest/Black City population mechanics tbh

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



Hammerite posted:

It doesn't sound as bad as the White Forest/Black City population mechanics tbh

I forget, how did that work again?

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014





Larryb posted:

I forget, how did that work again?

Speedrun to the end or you lose everyone in it (unless you can do some local multiplayer with someone).

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010



hopeandjoy posted:

Speedrun to the end or you lose everyone in it (unless you can do some local multiplayer with someone).

And what is the benefit of doing this in the first place (and is the reward worth the effort)?

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



Larryb posted:

And what is the benefit of doing this in the first place (and is the reward worth the effort)?

Depends on your game.

In Black City, the people are powerful trainers who give out plenty of experience and money. In White Forest, the people's presence influence what kind of Pokemon can be found in the grass. Different trainers are tied to certain Pokemon families. Like say, there's a cool trainer named Joshua who fights you with a level 65 Nidoking in Black City and when in White Forest, male Nidoran can be found at level 5.

That being said, you have to talk to them every day or they "disappear" (they end up in a void of sorts until they go to another person's game via local multiplayer). If you don't talk to Joshua, he'll end up moving away to another player's game (I think they go to the opposite versions game, White Forest to Black City and vice versa).

Zuzie fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Feb 22, 2021

Hammerite
Mar 9, 2007

And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.


Jade Ear Joe

Larryb posted:

I forget, how did that work again?

doing my best to describe it from my recollection without consulting Bulbapedia...

there is space for 10 people in your "main" black city/white forest, and space for an additional 10 (?) in your "shadow dimension" black city/white forest. when you start a new game, your "main" black city/white forest is full with 10 random people and the "shadow dimension" is empty. the people in your "main" city/forest are randomly selected from a pool of a few dozen. each has a certain wild pokemon they will invite (in white forest) or a certain item they will sell daily (in black city)... or is that black 2, and in black 1 you could battle them? I don't remember, I had White and White 2.

each person has a "happiness statistic". if you talk to them (white forest) or battle them or whatever it is (black city) then their happiness goes up. The happiness ticks down every day. If it reaches zero and your "shadow dimension" has room for them, then they disappear from your "main" forest/city and go to the "shadow dimension". Other players visiting your game see what's in your "shadow dimension", not what's in your "main" forest/city. They can invite the characters from there to their own "main" forest/city. If they do, they disappear from your "shadow dimension".

the 10 randomly generated inhabitants of your main forest/city start out with medium-low happiness, and their happiness is ticking down even while you are playing the main quest. so you have to complete the game fairly quickly if you want your city/forest to be full when you get there.

like a lot of mechanics in the games it's designed with people living in a big japanese city in mind - people who are surrounded by lots of other people playing the game.

Flopsy
Mar 4, 2013



Hammerite posted:

doing my best to describe it from my recollection without consulting Bulbapedia...

there is space for 10 people in your "main" black city/white forest, and space for an additional 10 (?) in your "shadow dimension" black city/white forest. when you start a new game, your "main" black city/white forest is full with 10 random people and the "shadow dimension" is empty. the people in your "main" city/forest are randomly selected from a pool of a few dozen. each has a certain wild pokemon they will invite (in white forest) or a certain item they will sell daily (in black city)... or is that black 2, and in black 1 you could battle them? I don't remember, I had White and White 2.

each person has a "happiness statistic". if you talk to them (white forest) or battle them or whatever it is (black city) then their happiness goes up. The happiness ticks down every day. If it reaches zero and your "shadow dimension" has room for them, then they disappear from your "main" forest/city and go to the "shadow dimension". Other players visiting your game see what's in your "shadow dimension", not what's in your "main" forest/city. They can invite the characters from there to their own "main" forest/city. If they do, they disappear from your "shadow dimension".

the 10 randomly generated inhabitants of your main forest/city start out with medium-low happiness, and their happiness is ticking down even while you are playing the main quest. so you have to complete the game fairly quickly if you want your city/forest to be full when you get there.

like a lot of mechanics in the games it's designed with people living in a big japanese city in mind - people who are surrounded by lots of other people playing the game.


My city looked like the aftermath of the apocalypse with completely empty streets.

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



I'm not sure what the thinking was behind "Let's have a fun mutliplayer feature that's only accessible when you've beaten the game, but it degrades and is less interesting over time as soon as you start up a new save file or when the player stops playing for a while".

Tacking on an Animal Crossing-like mechanic like that just isn't going to work in this day and age.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh
one down.


Hammerite posted:

Game Freak's UK-theming of Galar is phony, they didn't rename the "bug" type to "insect"

many of the bug types are not insects, tho. spiders, centipedes, etc.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Zzzz... sploosh... zzzz... KABOOM... zzz... sploosh...

And then there's the IR key system in B2W2...

It is cool that each game has their own various gimmicks and weird mechanics, but it would be nice if half of them weren't loving trash. It's why when I think back on the Game Corner, Battle Frontier, following Pokemon, Safari Zones... I don't miss any of it because if it wasn't full of bullshit, it was stuff you could just ignore and people barely played. Like how much of the playerbase actually played the slots to get coins? How many people actually hunted rare Safari Zone Pokemon? How many people actually played the Battle Frontier outside of the Factory, aka, the only facility you didn't need a competitive team to actually attempt? It's all just a bunch of fluff. Fun fluff, but whatever man, gimme some good QOL stuff and a few postgame things to do and I'm fine.

Spacebump
Dec 23, 2003

Dallas Mavericks: Generations


Crosspeice posted:

And then there's the IR key system in B2W2...

It is cool that each game has their own various gimmicks and weird mechanics, but it would be nice if half of them weren't loving trash. It's why when I think back on the Game Corner, Battle Frontier, following Pokemon, Safari Zones... I don't miss any of it because if it wasn't full of bullshit, it was stuff you could just ignore and people barely played. Like how much of the playerbase actually played the slots to get coins? How many people actually hunted rare Safari Zone Pokemon? How many people actually played the Battle Frontier outside of the Factory, aka, the only facility you didn't need a competitive team to actually attempt? It's all just a bunch of fluff. Fun fluff, but whatever man, gimme some good QOL stuff and a few postgame things to do and I'm fine.

Friend Safari was one of the best abandoned features.

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.



Spacebump posted:

Friend Safari was one of the best abandoned features.

Even this had issues: having to fill your friends list with random people just because they had a good pool of monsters. If you happened to have a bad pool? Why the hell would they want you on their friend list? Oh and you can only have like 100 friends, so there are other games and their multiplayer feature to consider. They also had to have beaten the game to unlock the third Pokemon in each slot and they had to be online with you at the same time in order for monsters with Hidden Abilities to spawn.

My save data for Pokemon Y got corrupted and the worst aspect is that even if I did start a new file and got to the area with the Friend Safari, it will never be as good as it was back in 2013 because virtually no one on my friends list is still playing Pokemon X and Y!

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


idiosyncratic and opaque game mechanics are good and neat actually its just too bad they are all designed for japanese cities and not the american wasteland

Hrist
Feb 21, 2011



Lipstick Apathy

Zuzie posted:

and they had to be online with you at the same time in order for monsters with Hidden Abilities to spawn.

This is the only thing that bothered me about friend safari. It was easy enough to find someone on gamefaqs who would just add literally everyone if they had something people wanted.

But when a friend has a thing you want, and it just happens to be the third slot, it was a huge pain. You had to coordinate trying to get that to happen. Friend Safari did get me a shiny Braxien though. So I was happy enough with that. Even if it didn't have it's hidden ability, and had a hindering nature.

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!



Well. I guess I'm kinda glad to finally know why every single time I reached the White Forest it'd be empty or have like 2 dudes.

Flopsy
Mar 4, 2013



Well clearly now we need a pokemon Mad Max edition.

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Nessa
Dec 15, 2008



I just got around to playing Crown Tundra and Iíve been enjoying it a lot more than Isle of Armor. I like the story, I had no idea Iíd be able to catch a sweet looking ghost horse and it seems a bit harder for me to get lost. I still wish there was a mini map, but the Crown Tundra area seems much better designed. I love the tall trees and the ruins and the little cemetery. Thereís some real gorgeous scenery here.

I just wish I could use these reins of unity to ride my ghost horse myself. I want to gallop through Galar on all my pretty ponies instead of ride this bicycle while wearing a goofy outfit.

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