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Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Well I know I'm almost 100% going to regret bringing this up, but Xeno brings up a good point. What constitutes a movie being "horror?"

There is thriller, horror, action, sci fi. They can be all interrelated.

I think horror brings actual fear, not just excitement. Thriller gives you "omg what is going to happen next?" But horror brings, "omg I don't want to know what happens next." There are college studies on this so I know this can cause a loving can of worms but eh, I've had a few tonight so whatever.

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Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015







I mean by her rubric basically anything except, poo poo, I dunno, Cloverfield? ceases to be horror. I love this idea of a brave new world where there are no movie genres and only movie settings though.

"What kinda movie do you want to watch?"
"I dunno, maybe Space? No wait how about a City movie, yeah."

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



Owlbear Camus posted:

Two thoughts:

By her rubric, Dracula is ceases to be horror if you're unfamiliar with victorian europe.

Alien creates a VERY familiar bond with the crew of blue collar cargo haulers before introducing the horror element. It would take the most trivial of rewrites to make it the story of a ship full of wish.com dildos stopping at an uncharted island in the pacific.

Iíve considered doing literally this, rewrite ĎAliení to be a modern day tug called the Snark that finds a ship adrift and accidentally picks up a serial killer who starts picking off/doing horrible things to the crew one by one.

happyhippy
Feb 21, 2005

Playing games, watching movies, owning goons. 'sup


Pillbug

How about:
'Horror' is where there is a certain thing causing the fear intentionally.
'Survivor' or 'Survival' should be the term for where the unintentional thing happened and they are trying to survive it.
'Survival Horror' should be the term for when a thing is causing unintentional danger that they are trying to survive.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

happyhippy posted:

How about :
'Horror' is where there is a certain thing causing the fear intentionally.
'Survivor' or 'Survival' should be the term for where the unintentional thing happened and they are trying to survive it.
'Survival Horror' should be the term for when a thing is causing unintentional danger that they are trying to survive.

I think all of those are exactly the same thing of horror. In horror, there are always survivors, where they are trying to survive the horror. That's the entire premise of all horror movies. A bad entity killing off people and other people trying to survive it.

Alien, The Thing, all Freddy movies, all Jason movies, all Halloween movies. That's almost the definition of horror.

Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Apr 9, 2021

Prof. Crocodile
Jun 27, 2020



hello yes i thought about aliens (the movie) today. is this thread right for me?

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Prof. Crocodile posted:

hello yes i thought about aliens (the movie) today. is this thread right for me?

My friend, you have friends here.

Welcome.

Prof. Crocodile
Jun 27, 2020



oh nice!

i'm sure this has been brought up here before in the past 175 pages, but i was actually thinking about how different the tone is between alien and aliens.

actually first i was thinking about how all marvel movies are the same--the hero is in a strange place, there is a mcguffin, there is a member of the opposite sex that knows them better than they know themselves, there is a miniboss and a big bad, etc. then i thought about how that wasn't so unusual because most sequels are just remakes of the original--friday the 13th, oceans, etc.

then i thought about how alien was a straight up horror movie that happened to be set in space, while aliens was a straight up action movie and the space setting was kind of irrelevant. like even when i was a little kid aliens was more exciting than scary, even though the monsters were objectively scarier than in the first movie.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




Prof. Crocodile posted:

oh nice!

i'm sure this has been brought up here before in the past 175 pages, but i was actually thinking about how different the tone is between alien and aliens.

actually first i was thinking about how all marvel movies are the same--the hero is in a strange place, there is a mcguffin, there is a member of the opposite sex that knows them better than they know themselves, there is a miniboss and a big bad, etc. then i thought about how that wasn't so unusual because most sequels are just remakes of the original--friday the 13th, oceans, etc.

then i thought about how alien was a straight up horror movie that happened to be set in space, while aliens was a straight up action movie and the space setting was kind of irrelevant. like even when i was a little kid aliens was more exciting than scary, even though the monsters were objectively scarier than in the first movie.

Apropos of your observation some of the best of the tepid lot are when they stretch the constraints of the superhero genre a bit.

Iron Man was a hit and a great way to hook/acclimate general audiences to the MCU, I contend, because it was essentially a sci-fi action hero movie with a compelling lead and would have mostly worked as a film if you filed the serial numbers off and had no connection to an existing property, let alone a whole web of characters that came with it.

Thor Ragnarok was p. cool because yeah it was a superhero movie, but it leaned into vibrant 70's space opera really loving hard.

Black Panther is a cut above because it's an afro-futurist story about the morality of decolonization and resisting/becoming hegimons and poo poo that just happens to be in the MCU.

So if Aliens were about isolated space truckers again with exactly the same tone, it would probs not be as good.

Prof. Crocodile
Jun 27, 2020



Owlbear Camus posted:

Apropos of your observation some of the best of the tepid lot are when they stretch the constraints of the superhero genre a bit.

Iron Man was a hit and a great way to hook/acclimate general audiences to the MCU, I contend, because it was essentially a sci-fi action hero movie with a compelling lead and would have mostly worked as a film if you filed the serial numbers off and had no connection to an existing property, let alone a whole web of characters that came with it.

Thor Ragnarok was p. cool because yeah it was a superhero movie, but it leaned into vibrant 70's space opera really loving hard.

Black Panther is a cut above because it's an afro-futurist story about the morality of decolonization and resisting/becoming hegimons and poo poo that just happens to be in the MCU.

So if Aliens were about isolated space truckers again with exactly the same tone, it would probs not be as good.

completely agree with your marvel outliers

i guess the corollary downside of pushing boundaries in a franchise--for a studio at least--is that it gets hard to manage a franchise when the movies are unique. the terminator movies are good example of this. they fell to poo poo immediately after t2 because they had no idea how to manage all the possibilities, so every subsequent film felt like a desperate hodgepodge of old and new ideas.

Animal Friend
Sep 7, 2011



I might be seeing The Abyss in a theatre tomorrow.

About 1/3 as stoked as I was to see Aliens there 2 years ago.

I've only seen Abyss once and I remember liking it until the last 20 minutes.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

happyhippy posted:

How about :
'Horror' is where there is a certain thing causing the fear intentionally.
'Survivor' or 'Survival' should be the term for where the unintentional thing happened and they are trying to survive it.
'Survival Horror' should be the term for when a thing is causing unintentional danger that they are trying to survive.
By your definition horror is my least favourite version of horror. I can't stand any film where the central conflict could be easily resolved by one person just not being a jerk anymore.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

My posting is horror.

Android Apocalypse
Apr 28, 2009

The future is
AUTOMATED
and you are
OBSOLETE






Illegal Hen

Animal Friend posted:

I might be seeing The Abyss in a theatre tomorrow.

About 1/3 as stoked as I was to see Aliens there 2 years ago.

I've only seen Abyss once and I remember liking it until the last 20 minutes.

Huh, what parts of the end did not work for you? Also, have you seem the director's cut?

Unrelated, friend's new FB profile pic so now I'm thinking about Aliens:

Prof. Crocodile
Jun 27, 2020



Android Apocalypse posted:

Huh, what parts of the end did not work for you? Also, have you seem the director's cut?

Unrelated, friend's new FB profile pic so now I'm thinking about Aliens:


Less silly than the walking in the original alien imho

Mister Speaker
May 8, 2007




zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




Spaceballs rides again

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

zenguitarman posted:

Spaceballs rides again



Nuts and Gum
Mar 15, 2010

Age 18 to 49

Animal Friend posted:

I might be seeing The Abyss in a theatre tomorrow.

About 1/3 as stoked as I was to see Aliens there 2 years ago.

I've only seen Abyss once and I remember liking it until the last 20 minutes.

God drat the abyss is such an awesome movie. Biehn scared the absolute poo poo out of me as a kid. poo poo now I need a 4K uhd copy of this movie.

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



Nuts and Gum posted:

God drat the abyss is such an awesome movie. Biehn scared the absolute poo poo out of me as a kid. poo poo now I need a 4K uhd copy of this movie.

Complain to James Cameron, heís the one holding that up. Apparently itís ready to roll and just waiting on his approval, but heís too busy making Avatar sequels.

Nuts and Gum
Mar 15, 2010

Age 18 to 49

Xenomrph posted:

Complain to James Cameron, heís the one holding that up. Apparently itís ready to roll and just waiting on his approval, but heís too busy making Avatar sequels.

gently caress! I was just discovering it does not exist.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Nuts and Gum posted:

God drat the abyss is such an awesome movie. Biehn scared the absolute poo poo out of me as a kid. poo poo now I need a 4K uhd copy of this movie.

Biehn's performance in that was absolutely amazing. The slow progression of him going psycho bonkers was just great.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




Biehn deserved way more work than I feel like he ended up getting. He's so good in everything.

Typing those sentences reminded me I haven't watched Tombstone in a while. That one has just an absolutely bonkers good cast. Everyone is in the motherfucker.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




I think I've seen the abyss maybe twice (each version once) and I have vague memories of it being really really good and the water effects still holding up. The endings are pretty different iirc the theatrical release leaves out some pretty vital info.

Vim Fuego
Jun 1, 2000

I just had an epiphany: the internet is useless!





Ultra Carp

Beet Wagon posted:

Her justification is so dumb lmao. I ran across that post in the wild two days ago and this was the one that got me

https://twitter.com/elle_hunt/status/1379343795968479236

Like, that's why the movie doesn't take place in just a big empty void, lady

It's actually a really good post because it's so dumb that it forces us to think :HMM:

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Owlbear Camus posted:

Biehn deserved way more work than I feel like he ended up getting. He's so good in everything.

Typing those sentences reminded me I haven't watched Tombstone in a while. That one has just an absolutely bonkers good cast. Everyone is in the motherfucker.

I read the first line of your post and immediately thought "I gotta mention Tombstone." And you did. Good. Good.

edit: also Bill Paxton. Legit one of my favorite actors. God bless his soul.

zenguitarman posted:

I think I've seen the abyss maybe twice (each version once) and I have vague memories of it being really really good and the water effects still holding up. The endings are pretty different iirc the theatrical release leaves out some pretty vital info.

The alien in that movie was basically a starting point of the T-1000 in T2. They used the same upgraded technology of that to create him.

Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Apr 10, 2021

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




Pennywise the Frown posted:

I read the first line of your post and immediately thought "I gotta mention Tombstone." And you did. Good. Good.

That film has such a perfect cast and quotable dialogue. It's just Dudes Rocking start to finish.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




On this thread's recommendation I bought The Making Of Aliens book and it's really great and revealed a lot of things I didn't know/realize about the movie, even from watching the DVD extras and the Alien Theory YouTube.

First of all, the book is massive and weighs a ton



I never knew how involved Cameron was with literally everything. His concept art looks really good, and he even worked on miniatures and SFX too! He strikes me as a guy (at the time of shooting Aliens) that's so good at everything that he doesn't understand how everyone else isn't as talented as he is (which almost doomed the whole production when the crew in England basically mutinied). This movie almost never happened multiple times over, especially in its nascent stage of studios passing around scripts and treatments. The one thing I don't think he really understood very well was what James Horner needed. I knew Horner was pressed for time to say the least, but Gale Anne Hurd and Cameron really screwed him over.

Another thing I learned from the book was that Al Matthews was a loving G. This is so good:

WHERE'S APONE posted:

"An actress accused me of taking her light. I told her I could take her light without even leaving my dressing room; I also told her I could make the camera do anything I wanted it to do. She said 'BS.' I said, 'Okay, watch this.' That's when I put the cigar in my mouth. The camera was shooting from the opposite direction, but when James saw me put the cigar in my chops, he made them move the camera for a single on me. I just looked at the actress and winked."

And I think these might have been posted before, but have some rejected taglines

some dumb studio poo poo posted:

TAGLINES
The People Eaters
The People Destroyers
They Want Us
There's Nothing Nice About Them
The Rest Of The Story
The Last One Was Only The First One

SUBTITLES
Back And Out Of Control
The Death Travelers
The Space Scorpions
The Creature Chamber

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



Alien Theory is a bad YouTube channel and you shouldnít watch it.

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Aliens: There's nothing nice about them

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Gremlins 3: Back and out of control

Pissed Ape Sexist
Apr 19, 2008



Xenomrph posted:

Alien Theory is a bad YouTube channel and you shouldn’t watch it.

zenguitarman
Apr 6, 2009

Come on, lemme see ya shake your tail feather




ok sorry sir

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



Xenomrph posted:

Iíve considered doing literally this, rewrite ĎAliení to be a modern day tug called the Snark that finds a ship adrift and accidentally picks up a serial killer who starts picking off/doing horrible things to the crew one by one.

Isnít this Sunshine?

Vagabundo
Mar 20, 2007

Ya like Little Wayne?


ruddiger posted:

Isnít this Sunshine?

The part where it becomes naff, yes.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




Alien Theory is basically just the one where he reads comic synopses and screenplays and poo poo at you?

It seems aggressively bland and his delivery is pretty monotone reedy voiced nerd, but is there something actively awful about it I should know like the dude is a white supremacist or something? I've put it on before when I wanted to know, say, what happened in this or that comic arc to mine for TTRPG ideas while I level my WoW guys and don't feel like reading a wiki for the info.

Xenomrph
Dec 9, 2005

AvP Nerd/Fanboy/Shill



He plagiarizes the poo poo out of other, better websites/wikis/forums and doesnít cite his sources when he reads their stuff verbatim for his videos.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Vagabundo posted:

The part where it becomes naff, yes.
Hello fellow truth teller

Torquemada
Oct 21, 2010

Drei Gläser


ruddiger posted:

Isnít this Sunshine?

A sprinkle of ĎDead Calmí too.

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Remulak
Jun 8, 2001

The four most over-rated things in life are champagne, lobster, anal sex and picnics. Oh, and that stupid children's book 'The Little Prince,' ugh.


Yams Fan

Knife in the water.

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